Do angels exist on earth?

Syl wrote:Do you believe stories when people say a miraculous stranger helped them cheat death....then disappeared without trace?

I read once of a woman drowning in the sea, suddenly a man silently appeared, held her, she felt a soothing calm as he swam to shore with her, people tended to her on the beach till she recovered, but none of them had seen the man who saved her, he just wasn't there.

I heard a celeb say once that she believed her dead daughter visited her when she was at her lowest ebb, she always left a white feather behind. I have seen the white feather on several occasions after my mum died, often in the strangest of places, but always when I have been thinking of her.

Are things like this coincidence....or do angels really exist?

eddie wrote:Well I am a believer in all things spiritual, or should I say I'm very open to these things.

I don't know if I've ever seen or had an angel visit me, but I have had some pretty strange experiences and I can be uncannily psychic but only with certain people.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:Do you believe stories when people say a miraculous stranger helped them cheat death....then disappeared without trace?

I read once of a woman drowning in the sea, suddenly a man silently appeared, held her, she felt a soothing calm as he swam to shore with her, people tended to her on the beach till she recovered, but none of them had seen the man who saved her, he just wasn't there.

I heard a celeb say once that she believed her dead daughter visited her when she was at her lowest ebb, she always left a white feather behind. I have seen the white feather on several occasions after my mum died, often in the strangest of places, but always when I have been thinking of her.

Are things like this coincidence....or do angels really exist?

I have several stories like this.   I'll relate two of the most profound (for me at least).   One, when my dog was diagnosed with a heart condition and I thought he was going to die.   I sat in the bathroom and cried, and when I looked up there was a great big fat white feather sitting in the middle of the room.   It hadn't been there when I entered the room.   My dog went on to live another 6 years.  

Once on holiday I asked someone close to me who'd passed if they'd show me a sign that they were there that they could hear me.   I was standing in the sea at the time, nobody around me, and I asked them to bring me a fish.   I thought, how hard can that be?  The sea's full of 'em.   I waited and waited and nothing.  So I went and sat down next to hubby and proceeded to sunbathe.    10 mins later, hubby nudged me saying....'Look at that!'    I looked up.  The sky held one massive fuck off cloudy fish.   Gills, eyes, fins, the lot.   We sat there staring at it in amazement, then I fumbled for my camera and took the shot.   Bearing in mind this photo was taken at least four minutes after we first saw it and the cloud was beginning to fragment by the time I snapped.   But it was a fish alright.

eddie wrote:A dragonfly hovered over my uncles bed when he was dying (at home) we all saw it. It was there for hours and wouldn't leave.
It left in the morning and my uncle died an hour or so later. My cousin always associates dragonflies with her dad now and sees them at strange times and often, when she's crying.

I never see them.

nicko wrote:Just before my Mom died she said" if it's possible to come back I will"

I'v been waiting nearly 20 years now !

nicko wrote:Just before my Mom died she said" if it's possible to come back I will"

I'v been waiting nearly 20 years now !

nicko wrote:Burundi???

Burundi, officially the Republic of Burundi, is a landlocked country in the African Great Lakes region of East Africa, bordered by Rwanda to the north, Tanzania to the east and south, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo to the west.

Syl wrote:Do you believe stories when people say a miraculous stranger helped them cheat death....then disappeared without trace?

I read once of a woman drowning in the sea, suddenly a man silently appeared, held her, she felt a soothing calm as he swam to shore with her, people tended to her on the beach till she recovered, but none of them had seen the man who saved her, he just wasn't there.

I heard a celeb say once that she believed her dead daughter visited her when she was at her lowest ebb, she always left a white feather behind. I have seen the white feather on several occasions after my mum died, often in the strangest of places, but always when I have been thinking of her.

Are things like this coincidence....or do angels really exist?

eddie wrote:A dragonfly hovered over my uncles bed when he was dying (at home) we all saw it. It was there for hours and wouldn't leave.
It left in the morning and my uncle died an hour or so later. My cousin always associates dragonflies with her dad now and sees them at strange times and often, when she's crying.

I never see them.

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:A dragonfly hovered over my uncles bed when he was dying (at home) we all saw it. It was there for hours and wouldn't leave.
It left in the morning and my uncle died an hour or so later. My cousin always associates dragonflies with her dad now and sees them at strange times and often, when she's crying.

I never see them.

Oddly similar story,
when my grandmother (mum's mum) died there was red lady beetles.
I keep finding little wooden ones around
I found the first one a couple of weeks after she died and thought it's cute and put it somewhere (handmade bowl of random things)
It looks like it fell of something since it has residual glue on the bottom... I don't know what since it is not from anything I own.
over the years they have kept appearing I have like half a dozen now, even found a new one when I was unpacking boxes in my new house  I have no idea how it got there

My 2 other wired spiritual 'things' (I too like to keep an open mind, but am naturally skeptical of all things, believing in logic and reason)

the first is my birth.
My mum and dad had tried for over a year and couldn't fall pregnant they went to the doctors and were told nothing was wrong, a nurse half jokingly told my mum 'you should try praying'..
My mum not Believing in Christian 'God' decided to pray to her grandmother (her mum's mum) which she said was quite unusual and she wasn't sure why she was no closer to her than other dead relatives.. she had hardly thought about her in years.
Well she fell pregnant and I was born on my great grandmother's birthday    the one she prayed to.

the 2nd and the reason I bought this farmhouse
when I walked through the door at the inspection (I had decided to make a long weekend of a trip down to the region to check out half a dozen houses I had seen online) I heard a voice, one I knew only I could hear and had a weird 'chill' like a split second shudder but not scary.... the voice which was female and sounded slightly elderly and 'relieved' like a wife or mother that had been waiting...
It said  "you're home" .....
the first night I slept there I had a weird dream, which I woke from only half remembering... but there was a clear message in the same voice that stuck in my head "look after my Roses"  

(you better believe, I am looking after the roses with greatest of care)

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:Do you believe stories when people say a miraculous stranger helped them cheat death....then disappeared without trace?

I read once of a woman drowning in the sea, suddenly a man silently appeared, held her, she felt a soothing calm as he swam to shore with her, people tended to her on the beach till she recovered, but none of them had seen the man who saved her, he just wasn't there.

I heard a celeb say once that she believed her dead daughter visited her when she was at her lowest ebb, she always left a white feather behind. I have seen the white feather on several occasions after my mum died, often in the strangest of places, but always when I have been thinking of her.

Are things like this coincidence....or do angels really exist?

Well what you have to ask, is where is all these angels, when millions of children die each year from starvation, disease, car crashes, natural disasters etc?

What you should be asking, is if such things exist, why they are selective in saving some random people and clearly sit by and let millions of children suffer and die in agony?

Frankly, if I met such an angel, if they existed. I would no doubt punch one in the face, for the fact, that they are able to act, yet let countless suffer.

nicko wrote:H/T,waiting for my Mom.

Quill, still don't know what Burundi has to do with it
Veya, I know where Burundi is, i'v been there !

Eilzel wrote:No. Of course I can't prove that, but as I don't believe in magic, my answer is no by default. At the same time, there is no harm in believing in them.

I think people tend to see what they want to see. What one person sees as a miracle I would see as explanable or coincidence.

I don't agree with the idea of there being notjing spiritual making the world one dimensional. I think the universe and humans are far too interesting for that to ever be the case.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well what you have to ask, is where is all these angels, when millions of children die each year from starvation, disease, car crashes, natural disasters etc?

What you should be asking, is if such things exist, why they are selective in saving some random people and clearly sit by and let millions of children suffer and die in agony?

Frankly, if I met such an angel, if they existed. I would no doubt punch one in the face, for the fact, that they are able to act, yet let countless suffer.

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well what you have to ask, is where is all these angels, when millions of children die each year from starvation, disease, car crashes, natural disasters etc?

What you should be asking, is if such things exist, why they are selective in saving some random people and clearly sit by and let millions of children suffer and die in agony?

Frankly, if I met such an angel, if they existed. I would no doubt punch one in the face, for the fact, that they are able to act, yet let countless suffer.

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well what you have to ask, is where is all these angels, when millions of children die each year from starvation, disease, car crashes, natural disasters etc?

What you should be asking, is if such things exist, why they are selective in saving some random people and clearly sit by and let millions of children suffer and die in agony?

Frankly, if I met such an angel, if they existed. I would no doubt punch one in the face, for the fact, that they are able to act, yet let countless suffer.

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

eddie wrote:I don't know enough about Guardian Angels, it's not something I've ever really looked into.  It's an interesting topic though and a great thread.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

magica wrote:Buddist Monks are very spiritual beings.  I love the Buddist faith  except I don't believe in God but a higher entity in the spirit world.

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

This is really interesting but a bit deep for me.

If a child suffers and dies because it owes a debt to God,( or whoever is in charge   ) that smacks of a very vengeful God indeed to take past sins out on an innocent child.
I find it hard to get my brain round that one.
I don't believe the theory that some people suffer in this life because they were bad in a previous life.....I do believe in reincarnation, but I would hope we all start off with a clean sheet.

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

That sounds more like Buddhism.

Re karmic debt, perhaps it's to do with having an unnatural death in a former life?

Syl wrote:

magica wrote:Buddist Monks are very spiritual beings.  I love the Buddist faith  except I don't believe in God but a higher entity in the spirit world.

I really believe in what goes around comes around.
I hope whatever Karma people build up and give out is settled in this lifetime, and directed to the person themselves.
I would hate to think my wrongdoings will be used against a loved one....or vice versa.

Eilzel wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

OK first of all, while I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, I do not think people should give red stripes (unless the alcoholic variety!) just cause of someone's view, so here's a

Now to respond.

1. If angels simply exist, with no explanation, then I do have to ask how and to what purpose? And who decides 'what's meant to be'?

2. Karmic debt? A child is a new life, surely (maybe recycled energy or stardust, but that consciousness is new, it learns only from the beginning or its relatively short existence). Why should that new life have to suffer, sometimes immensely, due to the actions of some previous, unconsciously connected life-form?

3. No, not believing does not mean we see it as 'life is often shit then you die and it's over'. Life can be shit, it can also be a wonderful thing to be appreciated and taken advantage of with what little time we have. I appreciate that is not so easy for many people. But we have so many opportunities to experience love, learning, discovery, passions, creativity, awe and so on. It seems such a shame to consider life as nothing but a chore to get through until reaching some wonderful end point.

I don't disagree on the end being it though. It really probably is. All the more reason to enjoy it while we are here then

eddie wrote:I don't think karmic debt works that way. It is a more gentle lesson.
Let's take Horatio's example of Ian Brady:

He would come back and be loved as a boy child and then he will meet another soul who was a child he murdered - but in this life it will be a women - he will then serve her in this relationship by "healing" her in some way, perhaps in her fear of men, and in that way he has repaid his debt to her. They won't stay together because karmic debt relationships are only there to fulfil a purpose then you move on. The idea is, once each person has fulfilled their debt to each other then they move on, when they don't their relationship will die anyway.

Only when you find a "twin flame" or soul mate, are you calm and settled forever amen etc

I don't know if I totally believe that but it makes sense to me.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well what you have to ask, is where is all these angels, when millions of children die each year from starvation, disease, car crashes, natural disasters etc?

What you should be asking, is if such things exist, why they are selective in saving some random people and clearly sit by and let millions of children suffer and die in agony?

Frankly, if I met such an angel, if they existed. I would no doubt punch one in the face, for the fact, that they are able to act, yet let countless suffer.

People have also asked the same of God for generations, 'Why would a loving God see innocents suffer?' It doesn't stop them believing though does it?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

OK first of all, while I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, I do not think people should give red stripes (unless the alcoholic variety!) just cause of someone's view, so here's a

Now to respond.

1. If angels simply exist, with no explanation, then I do have to ask how and to what purpose? And who decides 'what's meant to be'?

2. Karmic debt? A child is a new life, surely (maybe recycled energy or stardust, but that consciousness is new, it learns only from the beginning or its relatively short existence). Why should that new life have to suffer, sometimes immensely, due to the actions of some previous, unconsciously connected life-form?

3. No, not believing does not mean we see it as 'life is often shit then you die and it's over'. Life can be shit, it can also be a wonderful thing to be appreciated and taken advantage of with what little time we have. I appreciate that is not so easy for many people. But we have so many opportunities to experience love, learning, discovery, passions, creativity, awe and so on. It seems such a shame to consider life as nothing but a chore to get through until reaching some wonderful end point.

I don't disagree on the end being it though. It really probably is. All the more reason to enjoy it while we are here then

Thanks for respecting my views.    I try to do the same with people who believe in nothing but the matter we are composed of.  

Angels, I'm not sure how much of them is actually mythology based on some kind of spiritual memory.   I really don't believe in the winged kind...I think they are more likely highly evolved energies that do help us if we ask by giving us some comfort or energy from themselves when we need it.   From what I've learned after years of studying spirituality and spiritualism, the spirit world is neither up nor down but all around us.   There is no heaven.  No hell.   People have purpose over there just as they do here.  They're the same people, only stripped of all the damage that's done to us in our life times down here.   There are layers and layers within layers, both high and low in energy vibration.  

Sometimes, I have periods where I think it's all bullshit. That there's nothing.   But then something happens and I realise that there's more, so much more, than we'll ever understand while we're in physical incarnations.  We aren't supposed to remember our past lives, just have a gut instinct about it.   To remember would render it impossible to learn the lessons.

What are we here to discover?    All the computations until we've learned it all.   You can't do it all in one life.  Just as you can't get a degree in one minute.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

My belief is angels are simply energy beings and that they do not interfere with human lives.   If your karmic pathway or life blueprint is destined to die in childhood, by accident, disease etc...then that's it.   They don't interfere because it's what's meant to be.  Why would one choose to die in childhood of say...cancer?   Who knows?  Perhaps that child as an advanced soul entity chose that pathway to learn, or teach others.   Perhaps it held some karmic debt that had to be paid.   If you believe in God, and a higher energy then that's the most logical explanation.   If you don't, then it's a case of life is often shit then you die and it's all over.

This is really interesting but a bit deep for me.

If a child suffers and dies because it owes a debt to God,( or whoever is in charge   ) that smacks of a very vengeful God indeed to take past sins out on an innocent child.
I find it hard to get my brain round that one.
I don't believe the theory that some people suffer in this life because they were bad in a previous life.....I do believe in reincarnation, but I would hope we all start off with a clean sheet.

Karmic debit is nothing to do with anyone or anything but the soul.    How about if say, Ian Brady, had to come back and do it again, only this time he chose to be a child who gets murdered by someone like him?   Or he was the parent of a child who got murdered by someone like him?   So that he can appreciate the pain he caused.  

Odd how people always say....I hope that bastard burns in hell for what he did yet can't get their heads round the fact that that same evil bastard might come back as a child again.  There is no hell.  Hell is right here on earth for some people.   I think karma is a wonderful thing.

Ben Reilly wrote:Maybe instead of looking for magical angels that don't exist, we could recognize the angels who are real and are right in front of us if we'd only notice them: