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Raggamuffin
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How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:19 am
When Donald Trump berated CNN’s Jim Acosta during Trump’s first press conference as president-elect, it proved to be a bellwether for the way he would wield language against his media critics. As a candidate, Trump’s political speech was cynical, reckless, and frequently peppered with falsehoods, but nine days before his inauguration, there remained a chance Trump would turn, as he once promised, “so presidential you won’t believe it.” But Trump refused to let Acosta talk. “Not you,” he scolded, as Acosta shouted a question. “You are fake news.”
Ever since, conservatives have hurled the term “fake news” around with relish, typically aiming it at news they consider biased, but also at stories that make mistakes or that simply don’t support their viewpoint. Trump has led the way. Last week he tweeted that a New York Times story was “major FAKE NEWS” because it didn’t mention a phone call he’d had with China’s Xi Jinping (the call had only been made public late the night before). Trump also attacked CNN’s interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal as “FAKE NEWS!” because Trump thought Chris Cuomo didn’t ask Blumenthal about his non-existent Vietnam service (it was the first question). And at his combative press conference on Thursday, Trump repeatedly fired off the term, directing it again at CNN, but also at any reporting on his Russia ties, which he described as “all fake news.”
Far-right media were among the first to weaponize the term, and Trump may have adopted it from them. In December, after the U.S. intelligence community agreed that Russia attempted to hack our election, Breitbart News labeled the charge “left-wing fake news.” Around the same time, Rush Limbaugh said “fake news is the everyday news.” But it wasn’t until Trump’s hammering of Acosta that the term became a conservative talking point. It’s been used widely on social media ever since, and by an increasing number of Republican pols. When hearings were set to debate Trump’s travel ban, Sen. Thom Tillis posted on Facebook: “Dispense with the fake news. Listen live to oral arguments…” Rep. Mo Brooks last week dismissed a Washington Post article about his voter fraud claims as “a fake news hit piece.”
But none of this is actually fake news, of course. Fake news, you might remember from the campaign, is news in which the thrust of the story is intentionally and completely false, written by unknown people for a faux-newspaper site in order to garner page views. It was so ubiquitous before the election that Facebook has since cracked down on it. An analysis of these stories showed that while they were aimed at both right and left, twice as many were designed for a conservative audience. Charlie Sykes, the conservative radio host, has blamed Republicans’ embrace of fake news for polluting the discourse on his show (he eventually quit) as his listeners began assigning greater credibility to unsourced conspiracy theories than to New York Times articles. Sykes said his listeners accused him of being a sellout for not “repeating these stories I know not to be true.”
This is the big irony in the right’s efforts to co-opt the term. Real fake news, if you’ll pardon the oxymoron, has been far more rampant on the right than the left. The most famous fake news story is “PizzaGate,” which claimed Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring out of a D.C. pizzeria. The story caused a man to travel hundreds of miles to “self investigate” and then fire his assault rifle into the kitchen.
In November, NPR tracked down a fake news creator named Jestin Coler, a Democrat, who said he was stunned by how easily conservatives believed the fabrications. He tried to write fake news for liberals, he said, but “it never takes off.” Sykes, in a recent Times op-ed, discussed the right’s hijacking of the term. “Mr. Trump and his allies in the right media” have exploited our “post-factual political culture” to turn the term against its critics “essentially draining it of any meaning.” “Now,” he added, “any news deemed to be biased, annoying or negative, can be labeled ‘fake news.’”
As Sykes has also noted, however, the mainstream media has done its share to erode its own credibility. When Trump deems unfavorable polls to be fake ones, he can point to all the pre-election polls that predicted his loss (though they got the popular vote correct, something Trump never acknowledges). A Times reporter mistakenly wrote that Trump removed an MLK bust from the Oval Office, allowing Trump to cite it as more evidence of the “dishonest” media. And when all else fails, there is always WMD to prove the MSM is fallible.
But while some skepticism is healthy, rejection of the MSM is not. But rejection is sure what Trump is hoping for. In creating an equivalency between fake news and critical news, the president is attempting to further delegitimize the press and create a climate where objective facts don’t exist, just opinions. In such a climate, it becomes his word versus everyone else’s, and thus easier to propagate outlandish claims—like crime is at its highest rate in 47 years (not even close), the media is ignoring terrorist attacks (ridiculous), or that three million illegal immigrants voted in the election (no evidence of this). In making these assertions, Trump is using the oldest trick in the demagogue’s playbook: attempting to scare people into handing him more power.
In Mark Thompson’s recent book, Enough Said: What’s Gone Wrong With the Language of Politics?, Thompson offers a rationale for why conservatives may be more susceptible to conspiracy theories. Increasingly, our two parties are drawn to different styles of political speech: Liberals lean toward what he calls “rationalists,” and conservatives toward “authenticists.” The split hasn’t always been by party, but Trump’s perceived authenticity was his biggest selling point. “Authenticists prize simplicity of language,” Thompson writes, “because they associate simple expression with honesty of emotion.” Where rationalists venerate facts, almost to a fault, “authenticists often find them suspect,” denigrating them in order to “distinguish them from the bigger ‘truths’ they prefer to promote.”
Coler, the fake news creator, bolstered this point when discussing one of his biggest “successes”: his phony story about the mysterious murder-suicide of an FBI agent suspected of leaking Clinton’s emails. Nothing about the story was true, yet it garnered 1.6 million views because it matched the right’s narrative that Hillary Clinton was evil—“Killery” to many on the right. “The people wanted to hear this,” Coler told NPR, and after he posted the piece to several pro-Trump Facebook groups, “it spread like wildfire.”
To authenticists, Thompson declares: “What matters most is not argument but story… The facticity of a given claim matters less than its fit with the narrative. If something feels true, then in some sense it must be true.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/18/how-the-right-co-opted-fake-news.html
It certainly seems a return to the 1930's, with the Alt-Right propaganda machine.
Ever since, conservatives have hurled the term “fake news” around with relish, typically aiming it at news they consider biased, but also at stories that make mistakes or that simply don’t support their viewpoint. Trump has led the way. Last week he tweeted that a New York Times story was “major FAKE NEWS” because it didn’t mention a phone call he’d had with China’s Xi Jinping (the call had only been made public late the night before). Trump also attacked CNN’s interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal as “FAKE NEWS!” because Trump thought Chris Cuomo didn’t ask Blumenthal about his non-existent Vietnam service (it was the first question). And at his combative press conference on Thursday, Trump repeatedly fired off the term, directing it again at CNN, but also at any reporting on his Russia ties, which he described as “all fake news.”
Far-right media were among the first to weaponize the term, and Trump may have adopted it from them. In December, after the U.S. intelligence community agreed that Russia attempted to hack our election, Breitbart News labeled the charge “left-wing fake news.” Around the same time, Rush Limbaugh said “fake news is the everyday news.” But it wasn’t until Trump’s hammering of Acosta that the term became a conservative talking point. It’s been used widely on social media ever since, and by an increasing number of Republican pols. When hearings were set to debate Trump’s travel ban, Sen. Thom Tillis posted on Facebook: “Dispense with the fake news. Listen live to oral arguments…” Rep. Mo Brooks last week dismissed a Washington Post article about his voter fraud claims as “a fake news hit piece.”
But none of this is actually fake news, of course. Fake news, you might remember from the campaign, is news in which the thrust of the story is intentionally and completely false, written by unknown people for a faux-newspaper site in order to garner page views. It was so ubiquitous before the election that Facebook has since cracked down on it. An analysis of these stories showed that while they were aimed at both right and left, twice as many were designed for a conservative audience. Charlie Sykes, the conservative radio host, has blamed Republicans’ embrace of fake news for polluting the discourse on his show (he eventually quit) as his listeners began assigning greater credibility to unsourced conspiracy theories than to New York Times articles. Sykes said his listeners accused him of being a sellout for not “repeating these stories I know not to be true.”
This is the big irony in the right’s efforts to co-opt the term. Real fake news, if you’ll pardon the oxymoron, has been far more rampant on the right than the left. The most famous fake news story is “PizzaGate,” which claimed Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring out of a D.C. pizzeria. The story caused a man to travel hundreds of miles to “self investigate” and then fire his assault rifle into the kitchen.
In November, NPR tracked down a fake news creator named Jestin Coler, a Democrat, who said he was stunned by how easily conservatives believed the fabrications. He tried to write fake news for liberals, he said, but “it never takes off.” Sykes, in a recent Times op-ed, discussed the right’s hijacking of the term. “Mr. Trump and his allies in the right media” have exploited our “post-factual political culture” to turn the term against its critics “essentially draining it of any meaning.” “Now,” he added, “any news deemed to be biased, annoying or negative, can be labeled ‘fake news.’”
As Sykes has also noted, however, the mainstream media has done its share to erode its own credibility. When Trump deems unfavorable polls to be fake ones, he can point to all the pre-election polls that predicted his loss (though they got the popular vote correct, something Trump never acknowledges). A Times reporter mistakenly wrote that Trump removed an MLK bust from the Oval Office, allowing Trump to cite it as more evidence of the “dishonest” media. And when all else fails, there is always WMD to prove the MSM is fallible.
But while some skepticism is healthy, rejection of the MSM is not. But rejection is sure what Trump is hoping for. In creating an equivalency between fake news and critical news, the president is attempting to further delegitimize the press and create a climate where objective facts don’t exist, just opinions. In such a climate, it becomes his word versus everyone else’s, and thus easier to propagate outlandish claims—like crime is at its highest rate in 47 years (not even close), the media is ignoring terrorist attacks (ridiculous), or that three million illegal immigrants voted in the election (no evidence of this). In making these assertions, Trump is using the oldest trick in the demagogue’s playbook: attempting to scare people into handing him more power.
In Mark Thompson’s recent book, Enough Said: What’s Gone Wrong With the Language of Politics?, Thompson offers a rationale for why conservatives may be more susceptible to conspiracy theories. Increasingly, our two parties are drawn to different styles of political speech: Liberals lean toward what he calls “rationalists,” and conservatives toward “authenticists.” The split hasn’t always been by party, but Trump’s perceived authenticity was his biggest selling point. “Authenticists prize simplicity of language,” Thompson writes, “because they associate simple expression with honesty of emotion.” Where rationalists venerate facts, almost to a fault, “authenticists often find them suspect,” denigrating them in order to “distinguish them from the bigger ‘truths’ they prefer to promote.”
Coler, the fake news creator, bolstered this point when discussing one of his biggest “successes”: his phony story about the mysterious murder-suicide of an FBI agent suspected of leaking Clinton’s emails. Nothing about the story was true, yet it garnered 1.6 million views because it matched the right’s narrative that Hillary Clinton was evil—“Killery” to many on the right. “The people wanted to hear this,” Coler told NPR, and after he posted the piece to several pro-Trump Facebook groups, “it spread like wildfire.”
To authenticists, Thompson declares: “What matters most is not argument but story… The facticity of a given claim matters less than its fit with the narrative. If something feels true, then in some sense it must be true.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/18/how-the-right-co-opted-fake-news.html
It certainly seems a return to the 1930's, with the Alt-Right propaganda machine.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by 'Wolfie Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:58 am
The Trump rump of the GOP have themselves become the masters of fakery these days...
No doubt that it's the extremist alt.right elements that are at the forefront pushing the "fake news" barrow..
We don't need to look past the three leading proponents posting their fake news items right here on NewsFix -- Comrade NITrollsky, Dykbrain and good ol' Tommy, take a bow.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Andy Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:21 pm
The 3 idiots. All are fake.
Nobody in real life peddles guff like they do.
They are the Newsfix equivalent to Katie Hopkins. Posting not what they really think, but simply to provoke.
Nobody in real life peddles guff like they do.
They are the Newsfix equivalent to Katie Hopkins. Posting not what they really think, but simply to provoke.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:34 pm
Is this supposed to be a thread about members of this forum? I don't think so.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Andy Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:11 pm
The three idiots continually post fake news, falsehoods and downright lies. They will follow Trump to the end, even to the point where they support his pressing the red button to trigger a nuclear holocaust over northern Europe. One can only persuade the blind and myopic so far. Ultimately, you are free to follow whoever you like, but there arevpkenty of warnings that Trump isn't right in the head. Not sure why anyone would support him.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:13 pm
Angry Andy wrote:The three idiots continually post fake news, falsehoods and downright lies. They will follow Trump to the end, even to the point where they support his pressing the red button to trigger a nuclear holocaust over northern Europe. One can only persuade the blind and myopic so far. Ultimately, you are free to follow whoever you like, but there arevpkenty of warnings that Trump isn't right in the head. Not sure why anyone would support him.
Can you give some examples of who has posted fake news, falsehoods, and downright lies? Can you back up your claim that they would support Trump pressing the red button? Do you have anything to back up the idea that Trump would actually do that anyway?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Andy Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:27 pm
Global warming denial.
£350 million / week to the NHS.
Supported by the 3 drones.
But they know the actual truth.
£350 million / week to the NHS.
Supported by the 3 drones.
But they know the actual truth.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Fred Moletrousers Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:47 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Angry Andy wrote:The three idiots continually post fake news, falsehoods and downright lies. They will follow Trump to the end, even to the point where they support his pressing the red button to trigger a nuclear holocaust over northern Europe. One can only persuade the blind and myopic so far. Ultimately, you are free to follow whoever you like, but there arevpkenty of warnings that Trump isn't right in the head. Not sure why anyone would support him.
Can you give some examples of who has posted fake news, falsehoods, and downright lies? Can you back up your claim that they would support Trump pressing the red button? Do you have anything to back up the idea that Trump would actually do that anyway?
I don't know about fake news, but a former Labour Party chief press officer described 9/11, after both World Trade Center towers had been hit in terrorist attacks, as being "...now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury."
And then there were Saddam Hussein's notorious "weapons of mass destruction" capable of "hitting British interests within 45 minutes." I seem to recall that came from the Labour leader at the time...can't quite remember his name.....
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:08 pm
Deflection. Trump has turned fake news into an art form, trying to make out he got more votes than he did etc etc etc etc.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Angry Andy wrote:Global warming denial.
£350 million / week to the NHS.
Supported by the 3 drones.
But they know the actual truth.
I don't recall any of those three members posting that the NHS would get £350 a week.
Don't know much about global warming, but I know Tommy talks about it a lot. I don't think that's anything to do with "fake news" though.
Any more examples? What about the issue of pressing the red button. Has anyone here said it would be a great idea?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Original Quill Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Fascinating subject you raise, didge. Gd for you.
Along about the Nixon era ((1969-1973)--when Republicans were developing their school of public tactics, pace Lee Atwater--the art of co-option became popular a political tool. It started when the left started co-opting the American flag, and sewing it into the seat of jeans and trousers. It's as if the right said, Hey, that's a wonderful way to turn back the criticism.
Richard Nixon himself co-opted the two-fingered "peace" symbol. which was itself co-opted from Churchill's victory symbol, remaking it into a "success" symbol.
Since the Sixty's, co-opting has become a very popular RW way of symbolizing. And as I've said before, RW'rs are not original thinkers, so cliches and jingles serve them quite well.
Also serving them well is their penchant for 'mirror-image' argument. For example, Keynesian economics was the source for tax breaks for the rich. Again because RW'rs are not original thinkers, they borrow metaphors from the left and rework them into messages supporting the right. Co-option fits this well.
Along about the Nixon era ((1969-1973)--when Republicans were developing their school of public tactics, pace Lee Atwater--the art of co-option became popular a political tool. It started when the left started co-opting the American flag, and sewing it into the seat of jeans and trousers. It's as if the right said, Hey, that's a wonderful way to turn back the criticism.
Richard Nixon himself co-opted the two-fingered "peace" symbol. which was itself co-opted from Churchill's victory symbol, remaking it into a "success" symbol.
Since the Sixty's, co-opting has become a very popular RW way of symbolizing. And as I've said before, RW'rs are not original thinkers, so cliches and jingles serve them quite well.
Also serving them well is their penchant for 'mirror-image' argument. For example, Keynesian economics was the source for tax breaks for the rich. Again because RW'rs are not original thinkers, they borrow metaphors from the left and rework them into messages supporting the right. Co-option fits this well.
Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:10 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Angry Andy wrote:Global warming denial.
£350 million / week to the NHS.
Supported by the 3 drones.
But they know the actual truth.
I don't recall any of those three members posting that the NHS would get £350 a week.
Don't know much about global warming, but I know Tommy talks about it a lot. I don't think that's anything to do with "fake news" though.
Any more examples? What about the issue of pressing the red button. Has anyone here said it would be a great idea?
Trump has called the facts about global warming fake news
One of the biggest promises made about Brexit was the £350 mill a week for the NHS, they plastered it all over the buses.
Last edited by sassy on Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:11 pm
sassy wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
I don't recall any of those three members posting that the NHS would get £350 a week.
Don't know much about global warming, but I know Tommy talks about it a lot. I don't think that's anything to do with "fake news" though.
Any more examples? What about the issue of pressing the red button. Has anyone here said it would be a great idea?
Trump has called the facts about global warming fake news
That has nothing to do with Tommy. He has been talking about it for a long time - before Trump became President.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:13 pm
So has everyone else. The person trying to make out it's fake news is Trump, Tommy just doesn't understand it.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:17 pm
sassy wrote:So has everyone else. The person trying to make out it's fake news is Trump, Tommy just doesn't understand it.
It was Wolfman and Andy who claimed that three members here posted fake news, and they're linking that to Trump in some way. I'm asking them to back that up.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:23 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Angry Andy wrote:The three idiots continually post fake news, falsehoods and downright lies. They will follow Trump to the end, even to the point where they support his pressing the red button to trigger a nuclear holocaust over northern Europe. One can only persuade the blind and myopic so far. Ultimately, you are free to follow whoever you like, but there arevpkenty of warnings that Trump isn't right in the head. Not sure why anyone would support him.
Can you give some examples of who has posted fake news, falsehoods, and downright lies?
I can:
http://www.newsfixboard.com/t18080-tens-of-thousands-of-fraudulent-clinton-votes-found-in-ohio-warehouse
http://www.newsfixboard.com/t19538-fake-storythat-awkward-moment-when-your-strength-shouts-allahu-akbar-and-shoots-up-quebec
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:27 pm
Here's another: http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10064-has-the-earths-axis-rotation-really-shifted
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:43 pm
Fair enough. I don't count the third one, so what about the other two members, and what about the red button issue?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:48 pm
Nasa said the Earth's axis has tilted slightly...
Where are these examples to back up the claims about me here...?
(Thanks for backing me on this thread Raggs!)
Where are these examples to back up the claims about me here...?
(Thanks for backing me on this thread Raggs!)
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:30 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Nasa said the Earth's axis has tilted slightly...
10 cm. Far too small for the human eye to notice any apparent change of position of the stars or sun from where they would normally appear at any given time.
Next time you're outside, pick out an object on the distant horizon and then, holding it in view, take one step to the side. I guarantee, the object you're looking at won't appear to have moved. Now imagine that instead of the mile or so away the object you're looking at is, the distance is nearly 100 million miles away, like the sun, or 4 light years away like the closest star to the Sun.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:13 pm
Ben Reilly wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:Nasa said the Earth's axis has tilted slightly...
10 cm. Far too small for the human eye to notice any apparent change of position of the stars or sun from where they would normally appear at any given time.
Next time you're outside, pick out an object on the distant horizon and then, holding it in view, take one step to the side. I guarantee, the object you're looking at won't appear to have moved. Now imagine that instead of the mile or so away the object you're looking at is, the distance is nearly 100 million miles away, like the sun, or 4 light years away like the closest star to the Sun.
That is a valid point for discussion for the thread in question... however, the thread is not a relevant example of proof of any of the earlier claims made about me on this thread...!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:51 pm
sassy wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
I don't recall any of those three members posting that the NHS would get £350 a week.
Don't know much about global warming, but I know Tommy talks about it a lot. I don't think that's anything to do with "fake news" though.
Any more examples? What about the issue of pressing the red button. Has anyone here said it would be a great idea?
Trump has called the facts about global warming fake news
One of the biggest promises made about Brexit was the £350 mill a week for the NHS, they plastered it all over the buses.
There was only one official leave campaign bus... and yes it did have a slogan on it saying that we give £350 million a week to the eu... it also had a slogan that we should be funding the nhs more instead...
But that was nothing to do with me or Nigel Farage or Ukip.
That was not the biggest promise of anyone or even the biggest issue about eu membership and reasons to leave...
Also... this 350 million to eu figure was extensively discussed/debated throughout the run up to the referendum... and it was quite clearly established that it did not mean that leaving the eu meant that 350 million a week extra would be given to funding the nhs.
This is just nonsense!!!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:52 am
Tommy Monk wrote:Nasa said the Earth's axis has tilted slightly...
Where are these examples to back up the claims about me here...?
(Thanks for backing me on this thread Raggs!)
You're welcome Tommy.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:53 am
Tommy Monk wrote:sassy wrote:
Trump has called the facts about global warming fake news
One of the biggest promises made about Brexit was the £350 mill a week for the NHS, they plastered it all over the buses.
There was only one official leave campaign bus... and yes it did have a slogan on it saying that we give £350 million a week to the eu... it also had a slogan that we should be funding the nhs more instead...
But that was nothing to do with me or Nigel Farage or Ukip.
That was not the biggest promise of anyone or even the biggest issue about eu membership and reasons to leave...
Also... this 350 million to eu figure was extensively discussed/debated throughout the run up to the referendum... and it was quite clearly established that it did not mean that leaving the eu meant that 350 million a week extra would be given to funding the nhs.
This is just nonsense!!!
I really don't understand why some people took that so literally, and I think it was largely remainers who did so. It seems obvious to me that nobody was actually promising that the money would go to the NHS instead. They weren't in a position to do so for a start.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:24 am
It was clearly established in the debates that 350 million week extra would not be going to the nhs.
It was also clearly established that the 350 million was the overall gross figure shown as a per week amount... it was also made clear that we got some of the money back in the form of a rebate and that some of the money was spent by the eu back here in the UK... and the overall net cost to eu was nearer 250 million a week...
But leaving the eu would mean that we had control over all this money and be able to keep it here and decide how and where it was spent here in future.
It was also clearly established that the 350 million was the overall gross figure shown as a per week amount... it was also made clear that we got some of the money back in the form of a rebate and that some of the money was spent by the eu back here in the UK... and the overall net cost to eu was nearer 250 million a week...
But leaving the eu would mean that we had control over all this money and be able to keep it here and decide how and where it was spent here in future.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:07 pm
Farage and ukip were not part of the official leave campaign... he had nothing to do with the leave campaign bus or the slogan on the side of it.
In fact he was one of those where made clear that out of the 350 million, we get some back as rebate and in money spent here in uk by eu and decided what it is spent on by eu...!
In fact he was one of those where made clear that out of the 350 million, we get some back as rebate and in money spent here in uk by eu and decided what it is spent on by eu...!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:11 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Farage and ukip were not part of the official leave campaign... he had nothing to do with the leave campaign bus or the slogan on the side of it.
In fact he was one of those where made clear that out of the 350 million, we get some back as rebate and in money spent here in uk by eu and decided what it is spent on by eu...!
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/footage-shows-nigel-farage-pledging-eu-money-to-nhs-before-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:22 pm
Think you need to read the article properly... and read what Farage ACTUALLY SAID...
I stand by my last post!
I stand by my last post!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:24 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Think you need to read the article properly... and read what Farage ACTUALLY SAID...
I stand by my last post!
You can stand by what you like, it still falls flat on its face.
You are the worst on here for fake news crap, especially your denial of climate change
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:29 pm
From the metro article...
Farage said...
He said: ‘Can we just get to the truth of this. £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that.
‘Fact, absolute fact, from the official statistics cross-checked with the EU: we pay £55 million a day as a contribution. Some of that is the rebate which doesn’t go, but our gross contribution is £55 million a day.’
Nigel Farage says Britain’s heading into recession
He went on to say that the net figure of £34 million a day and £10 billion per year is ‘too much’, adding ‘we should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people.’
When quizzed by an audience member on whether the money would be invested in the NHS, Mr Farage reinforced his point.
He said: ‘Do you know what I’d like to do with the £10 billion? I’d like that £10 billion to be spent helping the communities in Britain that the government damaged so badly by opening up the doors to former communist countries.
‘What people need here is schools, hospitals, GPs, that’s what they need.’
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/footage-shows-nigel-farage-pledging-eu-money-to-nhs-before-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/#ixzz4Z8L5Pd2u
So it is your claim that is the fake one dodge...
Try reading what was said rather than trying to claim stuff that wasn't said.
Farage said...
He said: ‘Can we just get to the truth of this. £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that.
‘Fact, absolute fact, from the official statistics cross-checked with the EU: we pay £55 million a day as a contribution. Some of that is the rebate which doesn’t go, but our gross contribution is £55 million a day.’
Nigel Farage says Britain’s heading into recession
He went on to say that the net figure of £34 million a day and £10 billion per year is ‘too much’, adding ‘we should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people.’
When quizzed by an audience member on whether the money would be invested in the NHS, Mr Farage reinforced his point.
He said: ‘Do you know what I’d like to do with the £10 billion? I’d like that £10 billion to be spent helping the communities in Britain that the government damaged so badly by opening up the doors to former communist countries.
‘What people need here is schools, hospitals, GPs, that’s what they need.’
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/footage-shows-nigel-farage-pledging-eu-money-to-nhs-before-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/#ixzz4Z8L5Pd2u
So it is your claim that is the fake one dodge...
Try reading what was said rather than trying to claim stuff that wasn't said.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:33 pm
How is it wrong when you claimed the figure to be lower Tommy than 350 million, when Farage says higher?
Opps, not good at the small print are you Tommy?
And what does the above change about his claim on the NHS money and then backtracking as seen above?
Nothing
Its you that its the right gullible naive person Tommy
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html
Opps, not good at the small print are you Tommy?
And what does the above change about his claim on the NHS money and then backtracking as seen above?
Nothing
Its you that its the right gullible naive person Tommy
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:41 pm
Whatever the truth of Nigel Farage said or didn't say, he wasn't in a position to promise anything, so why would people think that he was?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:41 pm
The gross figure is slightly higher than 350 as it is 55 million a day which = 385 million...
But some of that includes our rebate and some of that includes the money that is spent back here in uk by the uk.
So... the actual net figure is lower as he explains here in your metro article...
He went on to say that the net figure of £34 million a day and £10 billion per year is ‘too much’, adding ‘we should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people.’
Try reading and understanding what was actually said instead of blowing hot air about what you would like to believe happened...
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:45 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
The gross figure is slightly higher than 350 as it is 55 million a day which = 385 million...
But some of that includes our rebate and some of that includes the money that is spent back here in uk by the uk. So... the actual net figure is lower as he explains here in your metro article... He went on to say that the net figure of £34 million a day and £10 billion per year is ‘too much’, adding ‘we should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people.’Try reading and understanding what was actually said instead of blowing hot air about what you would like to believe happened...
You said closer to 250 million earlier, point 1 debunked
Farage claimed to use this 350 million for the NHS, its there in black and white
He then back tracked on this, its there in black and white
Now you can continue to spam like a child as you always do but you have been weighed, measured and left found wanting.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:45 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Whatever the truth of Nigel Farage said or didn't say, he wasn't in a position to promise anything, so why would people think that he was?
How was he not in a position, during a general election fought only last year?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:46 pm
Farage never said the nhs would get an extra 350 million a week if we left the eu.
Only our elected government could decide what to do with the money saved by leaving the eu... and that could be decided that it may go towards the nhs... thd point is that we can only have this money and the ability to decide where it goes by leaving the eu!!!
Only our elected government could decide what to do with the money saved by leaving the eu... and that could be decided that it may go towards the nhs... thd point is that we can only have this money and the ability to decide where it goes by leaving the eu!!!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Farage never said the nhs would get an extra 350 million a week if we left the eu.
Only our elected government could decide what to do with the money saved by leaving the eu... and that could be decided that it may go towards the nhs... thd point is that we can only have this money and the ability to decide where it goes by leaving the eu!!!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:49 pm
Thorin wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:
The gross figure is slightly higher than 350 as it is 55 million a day which = 385 million...
But some of that includes our rebate and some of that includes the money that is spent back here in uk by the uk. So... the actual net figure is lower as he explains here in your metro article... He went on to say that the net figure of £34 million a day and £10 billion per year is ‘too much’, adding ‘we should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people.’Try reading and understanding what was actually said instead of blowing hot air about what you would like to believe happened...
You said closer to 250 million earlier, point 1 debunked
Farage claimed to use this 350 million for the NHS, its there in black and white
He then back tracked on this, its there in black and white
Now you can continue to spam like a child as you always do but you have been weighed, measured and left found wanting.
Try reading what he said...
£34 million a day net = £238 million a week!!!
I said the net sum was nearer 250 a week than 350... which it is!!!
So how have i lied you doughnut...!!!???
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:50 pm
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:Whatever the truth of Nigel Farage said or didn't say, he wasn't in a position to promise anything, so why would people think that he was?
How was he not in a position, during a general election fought only last year?
Because he's not, and never was, part of the Government. He was never even an MP.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:51 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
How was he not in a position, during a general election fought only last year?
Because he's not, and never was, part of the Government. He was never even an MP.
He was leading a party campaigning to get elected, so yes it does matter Rags and he was an MEP
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:53 pm
Farage never said what you claim dodge... even in your articles it is clear in what he said and that was not what you claim!!!
What is wrong with you...!!!???
What is wrong with you...!!!???
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:54 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Farage never said what you claim dodge... even in your articles it is clear in what he said and that was not what you claim!!!
What is wrong with you...!!!???
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:57 pm
Maybe dodge can provide us with a direct quote of Farage saying what he claims...!?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:59 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe dodge can provide us with a direct quote of Farage saying what he claims...!?
Thorin already did
Video is on the link
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:01 pm
Video doesn't show what dodge claims...
Try again!!!
Try again!!!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:03 pm
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Because he's not, and never was, part of the Government. He was never even an MP.
He was leading a party campaigning to get elected, so yes it does matter Rags and he was an MEP
It wasn't to do with being elected to the UK Parliament, or UKIP winning any election, it was to to do with the referendum. An MEP doesn't have any say over where money is spent in the UK.
Nobody promised anything - the wording on the bus pretty much said that spending the money on the NHS would be a good idea, but that's all.
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Tommy Monk Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:05 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
He was leading a party campaigning to get elected, so yes it does matter Rags and he was an MEP
It wasn't to do with being elected to the UK Parliament, or UKIP winning any election, it was to to do with the referendum. An MEP doesn't have any say over where money is spent in the UK.
Nobody promised anything - the wording on the bus pretty much said that spending the money on the NHS would be a good idea, but that's all.
And farage was not part of the official leave campaign and had absolutely nothing to do with the leave campaign bus or the slogan on it!!!
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Guest Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:07 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
He was leading a party campaigning to get elected, so yes it does matter Rags and he was an MEP
It wasn't to do with being elected to the UK Parliament, or UKIP winning any election, it was to to do with the referendum. An MEP doesn't have any say over where money is spent in the UK.
Nobody promised anything - the wording on the bus pretty much said that spending the money on the NHS would be a good idea, but that's all.
Yes he promised many things and he promised to hold a referendum and what to do with that money, if Britain voted to leave the EU. So again it matters greatly what he says, when he is also fighting to win a general election and lead the country. Even if that was not the case, he was an elected MEP standing for the view to leave and is responsible over points made. Yes they do have a say on policies that will effect the UK
Are you seriously suggesting if he and other UKIP members had been elected they would have not pushed for this money to be used, as they claimed?
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Re: How The Right Co-Opted ‘Fake News’
by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:17 pm
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
It wasn't to do with being elected to the UK Parliament, or UKIP winning any election, it was to to do with the referendum. An MEP doesn't have any say over where money is spent in the UK.
Nobody promised anything - the wording on the bus pretty much said that spending the money on the NHS would be a good idea, but that's all.
Yes he promised many things and he promised to hold a referendum and what to do with that money, if Britain voted to leave the EU. So again it matters greatly what he says, when he is also fighting to win a general election and lead the country. Even if that was not the case, he was an elected MEP standing for the view to leave and is responsible over points made. Yes they do have a say on policies that will effect the UK
Are you seriously suggesting if he and other UKIP members had been elected they would have not pushed for this money to be used, as they claimed?
He wasn't fighting to win a general election though. As an MEP, he would have had no say in how much was spent on the NHS, and neither would any other MEP.
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