Trump, Yiannopoulos and Berkeley

President Путин Америки– whose latest exploits include using a prayer breakfast to discuss Celebrity Apprentice ratings, cutting white supremacism from a counter-extremism programme and lashing out at that well known enemy of the free world, Malcom Turnbull – has now moved his sights to U. C. Berkeley. Even by Trumpian standards it’s hard to see how the University can be blamed for its conduct over the cancelled speech by alt-right leaning provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos.

Yiannopoulos was invited to speak by Berkeley College Republicans.  The University’s response seemed perfectly reasonable, particularly in a US context:

“While we realize that the presence of certain speakers is likely to upset some members of our campus community, University policy, principles of intellectual and academic freedom, and the U.S. Constitution require that students and faculty members retain the right to invite individuals onto campus to participate,” Mogulof said in an email.

However yesterday events took a dramatic turn. 150 masked activists descended on Berkeley and engaged in violent demonstrations against Yiannopoulos. A fire was started and several people seem to have been assaulted. Rocks and molotov cocktails were thrown and windows were broken.  Here you can see a woman being attacked with pepper spray. Faced with this alarming situation, the university authorities decided they couldn’t allow the speech to go ahead.  Substantial preparations had been made in order to provide adequate security for this event, but the threat to people’s safety meant that the UC Police Department felt it had no choice but to evacuate Yiannopoulos. The university strongly condemned the violent methods of protestors:

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms the violence and unlawful behavior that was on display and deeply regret that those tactics will now overshadow the efforts to engage in legitimate and lawful protest against the performer’s presence and perspectives,” UC Berkeley said in a statement.

Trump’s response was to threaten to pull UC Berkeley’s funding (Edit: he doesn’t have the power to do this).



It’s quite wrong to say that U. C. Berkeley tried to limit free speech – instead it seems to have tried its best to promote it.  It’s even more wrong – it’s bizarre – to claim that the university practiced violence.

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/02/03/trump-yiannopoulos-and-berkeley/

Ironically, Berkeley derives all it's financial power from nuclear energy.  Berkeley is the sole-source designer, and the sole source manufacturer of nuclear weapons for the number one nuclear power in the world.  All of the scientists at Trinity, which built the bomb, retired to Berkeley after the war.  Then they beget the next generation, which beget the next generation, etc., etc., all getting their PhD's at Berkeley.

More money flows through Berkeley's physics department than General Motors.  Berkeley owns the Lawrence Livermore Labs, the Lawrence Berkeley Labs, and runs the Los Alomos National Lab, in Los Alamos, New Mexico.

When GWB, former governor of Texas, tried to suggest that the nation's nuclear center be shifted to the University of Texas, he ran into a stone wall.  The entire nuclear intelligentsia of America, with vested retirement plans with Berkeley, threatened to retire early to save their assets.  Imagine if Trump had to go begging to Iran and/or Abdul Qadeer Khan to find out where to plug in the cyclotron.  Lol...Kahn, a Pakistani Muslim, couldn't even get a visa.

Thorin wrote:
It’s quite wrong to say that U. C. Berkeley tried to limit free speech...

The administration and staff didn't try to limit free speech.  The Liberal student-body did.  It's a typical thing with Millennials these days, most often the Liberal ones.

They claim to promote freedom of speech... until you disagree with them.  Disagreeing with them hurts their delicate feelings.  In response, "Safe Spaces" were created to shelter the most emotionally fragile of the Liberals, so they wouldn't have to hear things that disagreed with them and make them feel sad.  
Pansies.

This type of behavior is one of the many reasons people are fleeing the Democratic party in droves, why Liberals and Millennials are so negatively viewed, and is one of the many reasons why Trump is President.  People are tired of the pity-parties and tantrums from the grown children known as "the Liberals".

Trying to shut down an opposing point of view or to close all venue for debate is fascism.  Plain and simple.  Behold, your future Democrats.  

Intolerance of alternative viewpoints is spreading to places that make me, a moderate and a liberal, most uncomfortable. Only last year, we saw an online petition to ban Donald Trump from entry to the U.K. It garnered half a million signatures.  I find almost everything that Mr. Trump says objectionable. I consider him offensive and bigoted. But he has my full support to come to my country and be offensive and bigoted there. His freedom to speak protects my freedom to call him a bigot. His freedom guarantees mine.

-- J.K. Rowling, during the 2016 PEN America Literary Gala at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

The rioters at Berkley were anarchists, not liberals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/02/black-bloc-protests-return-for-trump-era-leaving-flames-broken-windows-from-dc-to-berkeley/?utm_term=.73ff9c4dc46e

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:

Thorin wrote:
It’s quite wrong to say that U. C. Berkeley tried to limit free speech...

The administration and staff didn't try to limit free speech.  The Liberal student-body did.  It's a typical thing with Millennials these days, most often the Liberal ones.

They claim to promote freedom of speech... until you disagree with them.  Disagreeing with them hurts their delicate feelings.  In response, "Safe Spaces" were created to shelter the most emotionally fragile of the Liberals, so they wouldn't have to hear things that disagreed with them and make them feel sad.  
Pansies.

This type of behavior is one of the many reasons people are fleeing the Democratic party in droves, why Liberals and Millennials are so negatively viewed, and is one of the many reasons why Trump is President.  People are tired of the pity-parties and tantrums from the grown children known as "the Liberals".

Trying to shut down an opposing point of view or to close all venue for debate is fascism.  Plain and simple.  Behold, your future Democrats.  

Intolerance of alternative viewpoints is spreading to places that make me, a moderate and a liberal, most uncomfortable. Only last year, we saw an online petition to ban Donald Trump from entry to the U.K. It garnered half a million signatures.  I find almost everything that Mr. Trump says objectionable. I consider him offensive and bigoted. But he has my full support to come to my country and be offensive and bigoted there. His freedom to speak protects my freedom to call him a bigot. His freedom guarantees mine.

-- J.K. Rowling, during the 2016 PEN America Literary Gala at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

What has any of that got to do with Trumps reaction to the University?
The action of the rioters was appalling and nobody should be if invited to speak, have people commit violence. That is well understood in the article and condemned.

What is being highlight and yet again, is the absurd and delusional reaction of Trump wrongly accusing the University and then even worse threatening them, with something he cannot even do on his own.

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:

Thorin wrote:
It’s quite wrong to say that U. C. Berkeley tried to limit free speech...

The administration and staff didn't try to limit free speech.  The Liberal student-body did.  It's a typical thing with Millennials these days, most often the Liberal ones.

They claim to promote freedom of speech... until you disagree with them.  Disagreeing with them hurts their delicate feelings.  In response, "Safe Spaces" were created to shelter the most emotionally fragile of the Liberals, so they wouldn't have to hear things that disagreed with them and make them feel sad.  
Pansies.

The 3 people who were arrested, depicted in the violence, were non-students from nearby Oakland.  The crowds filmed in the background were mostly students walking to and from class, who couldn't help but turn heads.

IT wrote:This type of behavior is one of the many reasons people are fleeing the Democratic party in droves, why Liberals and Millennials are so negatively viewed, and is one of the many reasons why Trump is President.  People are tired of the pity-parties and tantrums from the grown children known as "the Liberals".

Trying to shut down an opposing point of view or to close all venue for debate is fascism.  Plain and simple.  Behold, your future Democrats.

That's pretty much overstatement.  What makes America different from Europe is the First Amendment.  Written down, it is a severe constraint on laws that impose silence.  Most European countries don't have such an absolute restriction as the First Amendment, so there are laws restricting fascist statements and race-baiting...the very kind of think that Yiannopoulos is known for.  

As didge knows, I have often been critical of Europe's approach.  Others too are critical of Europe's approach:

Intolerance of alternative viewpoints is spreading to places that make me, a moderate and a liberal, most uncomfortable. Only last year, we saw an online petition to ban Donald Trump from entry to the U.K. It garnered half a million signatures.  I find almost everything that Mr. Trump says objectionable. I consider him offensive and bigoted. But he has my full support to come to my country and be offensive and bigoted there. His freedom to speak protects my freedom to call him a bigot. His freedom guarantees mine.

-- J.K. Rowling, during the 2016 PEN America Literary Gala at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.[/quote]

Since the end of the war many Europeans think that shutting down voices is the right thing to do.  But that's a fear factor.  They don't realize the best way to toss a bad idea is to undress it.  Show it for what it is...people who are listening will understand.

To ban Trump is a bad idea.  Hit him where he is most vulnerable: his own gut.  He is so narcissistic, just remind him of how he fucked up in Yemen this week.  Tell him he's a horses ass when it comes to military toughness.  Let people begin to see what a failure he is...then the purveyors of 'alternate facts' won't need shouting down.  Everybody will be laughing.

Actually Quill. I do not believe any speaker should be denied the right of freedom of speech under any circumstances. You address such talkers with people to easily reason why they are wrong. All you do as add fuel to the fire where they are claiming they are being denied their free speech. You then have the added problem of high you are then going to then define what constitutes as hate? So i agree there should be open debates. Any religious speaker in regards to Homosexuality etc as hate speech? The University rightly invited him and only cancelled due to the rioters. Also most Europeans do no believe in shutting down voices. You generally only find people like that on the left.

Thorin wrote:Actually Quill. I do not believe any speaker should be denied the right of freedom of speech under any circumstances. You address such talkers with people to easily reason why they are wrong. All you do as add fuel to the fire where they are claiming they are being denied their free speech. You then have the added problem of high you are then going to then define what constitutes as hate? So i agree there should be open debates. Any religious speaker in regards to Homosexuality etc as hate speech? The University rightly invited him and only cancelled due to the rioters. Also most Europeans do no believe in shutting down voices. You generally only find people like that on the left.

We share that core belief in free speech, didge. One of the exceptions to the First Amendment is the 'time and place' restriction...that free exercise of speech might be limited to the right time and place to speak. Order before debate...I think this might have been the reason for the cancellation.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:Actually Quill. I do not believe any speaker should be denied the right of freedom of speech under any circumstances. You address such talkers with people to easily reason why they are wrong. All you do as add fuel to the fire where they are claiming they are being denied their free speech. You then have the added problem of high you are then going to then define what constitutes as hate? So i agree there should be open debates. Any religious speaker in regards to Homosexuality etc as hate speech? The University rightly invited him and only cancelled due to the rioters. Also most Europeans do no believe in shutting down voices. You generally only find people like that on the left.

We share that core belief in free speech, didge.  One of the exceptions to the First Amendment is the 'time and place' restriction...that free exercise of speech might be limited to the right time and place to speak.  Order before debate...I think this might have been the reason for the cancellation.

Well we have to agree to disagree on the cause to cancelling Quill

Lord Independent Thoughts wrote:

Thorin wrote:
It’s quite wrong to say that U. C. Berkeley tried to limit free speech...

The administration and staff didn't try to limit free speech.  The Liberal student-body did.  It's a typical thing with Millennials these days, most often the Liberal ones.

They claim to promote freedom of speech... until you disagree with them.  Disagreeing with them hurts their delicate feelings.  In response, "Safe Spaces" were created to shelter the most emotionally fragile of the Liberals, so they wouldn't have to hear things that disagreed with them and make them feel sad.  
Pansies.

This type of behavior is one of the many reasons people are fleeing the Democratic party in droves, why Liberals and Millennials are so negatively viewed, and is one of the many reasons why Trump is President.  People are tired of the pity-parties and tantrums from the grown children known as "the Liberals".

Trying to shut down an opposing point of view or to close all venue for debate is fascism.  Plain and simple.  Behold, your future Democrats.  

Intolerance of alternative viewpoints is spreading to places that make me, a moderate and a liberal, most uncomfortable. Only last year, we saw an online petition to ban Donald Trump from entry to the U.K. It garnered half a million signatures.  I find almost everything that Mr. Trump says objectionable. I consider him offensive and bigoted. But he has my full support to come to my country and be offensive and bigoted there. His freedom to speak protects my freedom to call him a bigot. His freedom guarantees mine.

-- J.K. Rowling, during the 2016 PEN America Literary Gala at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.

Once again, you prove that you have absolutely no idea what a "Liberal" actually is !!!

Why don't you get yourself an education first, you clueless little troll..

Instead of simply c&p'ing your transparent Teabagger and Trumpster puff pieces ?

Thorin wrote:
Actually Quill. I do not believe any speaker should be denied the right of freedom of speech under any circumstances. You address such talkers with people to easily reason why they are wrong. All you do as add fuel to the fire where they are claiming they are being denied their free speech. You then have the added problem of high you are then going to then define what constitutes as hate? So i agree there should be open debates. Any religious speaker in regards to Homosexuality etc as hate speech? The University rightly invited him and only cancelled due to the rioters. Also most Europeans do no believe in shutting down voices. You generally only find people like that on the left.

And who foots the bill for having to bring,extra police on campus to watch over looming protests...

And the disruptions to study and work that follows..

I bet that neither the organisers behind the speech, nor the protestors from left, right or 'anarchists' groups, are worried about those potential costs ?

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:
Actually Quill. I do not believe any speaker should be denied the right of freedom of speech under any circumstances. You address such talkers with people to easily reason why they are wrong. All you do as add fuel to the fire where they are claiming they are being denied their free speech. You then have the added problem of high you are then going to then define what constitutes as hate? So i agree there should be open debates. Any religious speaker in regards to Homosexuality etc as hate speech? The University rightly invited him and only cancelled due to the rioters. Also most Europeans do no believe in shutting down voices. You generally only find people like that on the left.

And who foots the bill for having to bring,extra police on campus to watch over looming protests...

And the disruptions to study and work that follows..

I bet that neither the organisers behind the speech, nor the protestors from left, right or 'anarchists' groups, are worried about those potential costs ?

Its not the organizers responsibilities that some people act like animals and cannot behave themselves. Its the responsibility of the state to keep order. There is nothing wrong with protests, but they should be peaceful.

Those responsibility of criminality should foot the bill. I have never known any organisation n to have to foot the bill, due to people protesting against something. Why should it now? Its like saying cosmetic companies should foot the bill for animal rights protesters.