Why Ed Miliband will try and avoid an EU referendum at all costs

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100256503/why-ed-miliband-will-try-and-avoid-an-eu-referendum-at-all-costs/

A serious question to the lefties why are you dead set against a vote by the people.

Do you think they do not have a right to say no?

If so why not.


Can we agree we joined a common Market not this leviathan of social and business regulation.

If the British don't want a EU SSR then isn't it their right to say so?


If you provide a cogent argument I promise to play nice.

They're a little bit weak - that's why they join younians.

They need a younian leader to speak for them.

Can't stand tall and speak up for themselves.

Pathetic.

BigAndy9 wrote:They're a little bit weak - that's why they join younians.

They need a younian leader to speak for them.

Can't stand tall and speak up for themselves.

Pathetic.

They are vocal on here an often talk about rioting against a democratically elected and constituted govt lead by a RW major partner. Offer to take away their right to vote on a fundamental issue of a takeover by the EU (left leaning)and they applaud Labour.

Figure that out???!!!!!

Democracy should be accepted if it gets a left wing outcome but riots should ensue if is right of centre. Or Eds way just ban it.

Just dont be fooled by Cameron either. There is a growing movement in the Tories realizing he has no intention of following through on his promised referendum by using the simple expedient of failing to even attempt to renegotiate with the EU yet alone trying to succeed at it.

If people believe his promises it will get to 2017 and he will say sorry not having a referendum, there is no point because nothing has been renegotiated so nothing has changed - except the fact that the EU at that point will be actively locking countries in and finalizing removal of sovereign powers as they work towards their "United States of Europe" which they have already clearly stated is their intent.

I say again that this countries last chance to do anything will be 2015. Dont leave it too late.

Sphinx I have dallied with UKIP and even given them funds. They have damaged themselves by appointing fruit cakes.

I share your concerns about some in the Tory leadership e.g. Clarke and perhaps Cameron.

However I am a pragmatist an recognise if UKIP split he vote Labour will succeed.

We can then be certain of no say and a very left wing leader who would welcome a EUSSR with open arms.

Democracy as we know it would be gone I truly believe that. The lefties on here may scoff but Brussels has avoided most referenda like the plague for 30 years why would they change.

Vote UKIP in a marginal Tory seat, Vote Milliband for leader that should be the chant.

Clarkson wrote:Sphinx I have dallied with UKIP and even given them funds. They have damaged themselves by appointing fruit cakes.

I share your concerns about some in the Tory leadership e.g. Clarke and perhaps Cameron.

However I am a pragmatist an recognise if UKIP split he vote Labour will succeed.

We can then be certain of no say and a very left wing leader who would welcome a EUSSR with open arms.

Democracy as we know it would be gone I truly believe that. The lefties on here may scoff but Brussels has avoided most referenda like the plague for 30 years why would they change.

Vote UKIP in a marginal Tory seat, Vote Milliband for leader that should be the chant.

Sir I can only tell you - stop dallying and get down your local UKIP branch and find out the truth.

UKIP are not "splitting the vote" - that is a lie promoted by the Tories to try and get people like yourself to vote for them and promoted by Labour to cover up the fact that we take as many ex Labour supporters as we do ex Tories although by far the largest part of our makeup is of people who have previously refused to vote at all

If you are fooled into voting Tory because they have tricked you into thinking it is the only way to keep Labour out then know now that it means the EUSSR has won.

Instead of sending money take yourself to a couple of branch meetings - get out and talk to the real people that are the power behind UKIP - and take note of Nigels words today - that all our "fruitcakes" are(were) former Tories.

Hard working low paid people don't want a referendum as if we did pull out of the EU, that would leave all these low paid workers vulnerable and Ed Miliband supports low paid workers as Labour are the party of the hard working people.

Joy Division wrote:Hard working low paid people don't want a referendum as if we did pull out of the EU, that would leave all these low paid workers vulnerable and Ed Miliband supports low paid workers as Labour are the party of the hard working people.

Open your eyes JD. Why do you think ever increasing numbers of former Labour members are joining and voting UKIP? Its because they are looking at the figures and the policies and realizing that Labour is no longer the party of the poor it is the party of the Trade Unions who are committing far bigger and grosser offences of greed than the capitalists ever did. At least a self respecting capitalist gets out of social housing when they can afford to buy their own home and does not hog it because it is cheaper.

Why do you think the latest UKIP parliamentary candidate is ex Labour and son of a trade unionist?

It is because there is only one party committed to taking minimum wage out of taxation. That and the fact that it is being in the EU that is making low paid workers vulnerable.

If you want a powerful non democratic EU vote Labour. Clearly JD you are not a democrat. UKIP are the Tories are.

Clarkson wrote:If you want a powerful non democratic EU vote Labour. Clearly JD you are not a democrat. UKIP are the Tories are.

I keep telling you the tories are not.

Joy Division wrote:Hard working low paid people don't want a referendum as if we did pull out of the EU, that would leave all these low paid workers vulnerable and Ed Miliband supports low paid workers as Labour are the party of the hard working people.

If there is a referendum on the EU then you will be proved right, JD.

There will not be a vote in favour of leaving the EU. Cameron doesn't want one and in fact just a couple of years ago he said there wouldn't be one because it was not Tory policy.

Now he's just dancing to the tune of UKIP.

It's a stunt

Clarkson wrote:If you want a powerful non democratic EU vote Labour. Clearly JD you are not a democrat. UKIP are the Tories are.

I think Britain would do much better out of the EU and better off trying to set up powerful trade links with the commonwealth and English speaking nations.

Britain will always view Europe with suspicion and the French and Germans have had enough of our whinging.

But I can also see the logic of a European super state, and that's probably where we're heading.

scrat wrote:

Clarkson wrote:If you want a powerful non democratic EU vote Labour. Clearly JD you are not a democrat. UKIP are the Tories are.

I think Britain would do much better out of the EU and better off trying to set up powerful trade links with the commonwealth and English speaking nations.

Britain will always view Europe with suspicion and the French and Germans have had enough of our whinging.

But I can also see the logic of a European super state, and that's probably where we're heading.

Scrat I found myself at one with you for a moment. Shock horror to both of us. The French actually whinge far more about us actually and the Germans have a common identity with our approach in recent years. Hence te cooling of Anglo German relations.

My son did a years internship at a large American company based in Munich. He told me a lot about the locals views which substantially changed my outlook. If the Germans make common cause with the Brits we could turn back the tide and make the EU what it was supposed to be a Common Market. If Labour undermine the British vote we will get a nightmare. You call me bitter if wishing that on us all isn't bitter I don't know what is.

Surely even though you are very left wing you do not wish to wave goodbye to democracy. The power brokers in the EU have demonstrated they are very anti democratic. Say what you like just because it is left leaning doesn't mean it will always be benign, Indeed we have far too many examples to show otherwise.

There are many senior figures in the Labour party who I respect and who are very concerned about where this is taking us. Even your mate Tony Benn is anti.