When you teach a man to hate.

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Well, very often that's true, eds.  Look...I don't object to that, because my M.O. is to meet them on the battlefield.  But, speech is made for a variety of reasons.  Tommy has just started a thread on how the Ohio State U. stabber was "influenced" by ISIS.  Influenced??  What does that mean?  How is that news, fcs?  It's just a way of saying that Muslims are the new "niggahs" around, and we need to include them in the code of discrimination.

Scrat is making some damn insightful points here.  And by the way, I appreciate his higher education...he acts like it and presents some quality food for thought.

I also post up stories that I don't agree with, so I can debate them?

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:I don't "cheer" anyone on,   And Major and Tommy are as much entitled to their opinions as you are, and you only come here to slag certain posters off.

Bullshite.  You've got to read posters on different levels.  Wolf is up front...would you rather someone be upfront with you, or subversive?

Major and Tommy are entitled to their opinions, but it does get under your skin how subversively they promote what are ideas of the most primitive sort.

I don't want to get into things when they are not present.  But just understand me, thus far.  I like someone who leaves no doubt what he is saying.  Wolf does that.

eddie wrote:Right I know what you're saying but scrat is accusing me of being RW because I posted up a story about "a scrounges in benefits" or something simliar headline.

But then, he's easily excitable and not always able to understand the nuances of life.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Bullshite.  You've got to read posters on different levels.  Wolf is up front...would you rather someone be upfront with you, or subversive?

Major and Tommy are entitled to their opinions, but it does get under your skin how subversively they promote what are ideas of the most primitive sort.

I don't want to get into things when they are not present.  But just understand me, thus far.  I like someone who leaves no doubt what he is saying.  Wolf does that.

It's ok... I'm here... explain yourself please...!?

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Hmmm according to scrats twisted logic, if you post a story about something - you haven't posted it up for debate, you posted it because you "back it".

Scrat are actually over the age of 10 yet?

...Tommy has just started a thread on how the Ohio State U. stabber was "influenced" by ISIS.  Influenced??  What does that mean?  How is that news, fcs?...

nicko wrote:You see quill you have a "Band of Brothers" here,  Veya Wolfie,Ben and youself, neither of you will have a word said about each other, possibly because you were a group of yes men who "started"this Fofum.  You should never have opened it up to posters who disagree with your mates views.

PS I have never posted anything that could be taken as Homophobic or Racist,    Have I?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

...Tommy has just started a thread on how the Ohio State U. stabber was "influenced" by ISIS.  Influenced??  What does that mean?  How is that news, fcs?...

You know very well what it means and also how it is news...!

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Right I know what you're saying but scrat is accusing me of being RW because I posted up a story about "a scrounges in benefits" or something simliar headline.

But then, he's easily excitable and not always able to understand the nuances of life.

It's called baiting...putting something out on a hook, to see what you bring in.

I don't necessarily agree with everything scrat says.  I think you have RW sentiments, but you are not a baiter.  However there are some extreme baiters around this place.

nicko wrote:You see quill you have a "Band of Brothers" here,  Veya Wolfie,Ben and youself, neither of you will have a word said about each other, possibly because you were a group of yes men who "started"this Fofum.  You should never have opened it up to posters who disagree with your mates views.

PS I have never posted anything that could be taken as Homophobic or Racist,    Have I?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


It's ok... I'm here... explain yourself please...!?

We've been discussing the concept at great length.  It's called 'baiting'...posting uniformly racist or homophobic threads, ostensibly for the story, but consistently having racist/homophobic overtones.  

So far no one has had any difficulty following along.  We are well into the conversation.  If you have any specific questions, tommy, ask.

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's called baiting...putting something out on a hook, to see what you bring in.

I don't necessarily agree with everything scrat says.  I think you have RW sentiments, but you are not a baiter.  However there are some extreme baiters around this place.

You have no idea about my "sentiments" because most of the time whenever youve quoted me you haven't even read what I've said properly.
Quite often I read what you say about me and I wonder what Eddie you have been reading for the last three years!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

We've been discussing the concept at great length.  It's called 'baiting'...posting uniformly racist or homophobic threads, ostensibly for the story, but consistently having racist/homophobic overtones.  

So far no one has had any difficulty following along.  We are well into the conversation.  If you have any specific questions, tommy, ask.

How is the posting of actual news stories, 'baiting'...!?

Or 'racist'...!?

Or 'homophobic'...!?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

How is the posting of actual news stories, 'baiting'...!?

Or 'racist'...!?

Or 'homophobic'...!?

See?  You're just playing out the game.  When someone calls your bluff, it's palms up and What did I do?

What you did was plant a story on a consistent theme, be it racist or homophobic.  It's a sort of double entendre, taking advantage of the ambiguity of the idea of posting.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's called baiting...putting something out on a hook, to see what you bring in.

I don't necessarily agree with everything scrat says.  I think you have RW sentiments, but you are not a baiter.  However there are some extreme baiters around this place.

You have no idea about my "sentiments" because most of the time whenever youve quoted me you haven't even read what I've said properly.
Quite often I read what you say about me and I wonder what Eddie you have been reading for the last three years!

This environment is no different from any other.  I can tell your sentiments by listening to you over these many months and years.  Yes, I do have a good idea about your sentiments.

I read you properly.  I just, very often, see the same thing through a different prism.  I see what is very good in what you are saying, but I also see the dangers and pitfalls in some of the things you say.  That's no misinterpretation, nor is that failing to read.  It's very much like the 'uncomfortable truths' that scrat was discussing.  I bring out the uncomfortable truth in some of the things, not only you, but others have to say.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

See?  You're just playing out the game.  When someone calls your bluff, it's palms up and What did I do?

What you did was plant a story on a consistent theme, be it racist or homophobic.  It's a sort of double entendre, taking advantage of the ambiguity of the idea of posting.

How is the posting of actual news stories, 'baiting'...!?

Or 'racist'...!?

Or 'homophobic'...!?

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

This environment is no different from any other.  I can tell your sentiments by listening to you over these many months and years.  Yes, I do have a good idea about your sentiments.

I read you properly.  I just, very often, see the same thing through a different prism.  I see what is very good in what you are saying, but I also see the dangers and pitfalls in some of the things you say.  That's no misinterpretation, nor is that failing to read.  It's very much like the 'uncomfortable truths' that scrat was discussing.  I bring out the uncomfortable truth in some of the things, not only you, but others have to say.

Can't agree but I respect your point of view cos I'm easy like a Sunday morning.

eddie wrote:Quill I could sit here and spout out any number of "uncomfortable truths" I think about people. It doesn't make them true,

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

How is the posting of actual news stories, 'baiting'...!?

Or 'racist'...!?

Or 'homophobic'...!?

Tommy, you're still playing, even after I've called you out.  The game is over.  

scrat wrote:When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered. We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force.
Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence. We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution. But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can. Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

Bobby Kennedy.

They are always tolerated - acknowledged - acceptable when 'THEY REMAIN OVER THERE, where they belong' ...it's when those impertinent invaders come over here --- how dare they  

4EVER2 wrote:

scrat wrote:When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered. We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force.
Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence. We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution. But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can. Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

Bobby Kennedy.

Finding that this 'KKK' mindset is established in the very young and ingrained in their daily life 24/7 has been at the forefront for the longevity/solidarity of the 'KKK' brotherhood. 
The brain washing of what race to hate - what gender to control - what 'PEOPLE' to fear and what would be acceptable has be started long before that child begins to question or has the courage of 'free thought'! And toss in the right amount of some controlling religion and you've got the perfect balance.  
It worked well for Hitler and his 'Brown Shirt Youth Groups' and it's been successful for the 'KKK' too. 
How do we eradicate a 'mindset' that couldn't be eradicated post WWII? We can't erase Al Quida - Taliban they just change their flag and their attire and keep right on morphing into other names - other regions and starting anew?  Not that I'm for giving up --- NOOOO, that's never an option, but look at the heinous deeply seated pockets of racial hate that flare up world wide when the 'colored immigrants' flee their boundaries!

They are always tolerated - acknowledged - acceptable when 'THEY REMAIN OVER THERE, where they belong' ...it's when those impertinent invaders come over here --- how dare they  
That's when the hostile/old guard and deeply seated resentments flourish and the festering butt boil starts forming anew!

4EVER2 wrote:

scrat wrote:When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered. We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force.
Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence. We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution. But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can. Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

Bobby Kennedy.

Finding that this 'KKK' mindset is established in the very young and ingrained in their daily life 24/7 has been at the forefront for the longevity/solidarity of the 'KKK' brotherhood. 
The brain washing of what race to hate - what gender to control - what 'PEOPLE' to fear and what would be acceptable has be started long before that child begins to question or has the courage of 'free thought'! And toss in the right amount of some controlling religion and you've got the perfect balance.  
It worked well for Hitler and his 'Brown Shirt Youth Groups' and it's been successful for the 'KKK' too. 
How do we eradicate a 'mindset' that couldn't be eradicated post WWII? We can't erase Al Quida - Taliban they just change their flag and their attire and keep right on morphing into other names - other regions and starting anew?  Not that I'm for giving up --- NOOOO, that's never an option, but look at the heinous deeply seated pockets of racial hate that flare up world wide when the 'colored immigrants' flee their boundaries!

They are always tolerated - acknowledged - acceptable when 'THEY REMAIN OVER THERE, where they belong' ...it's when those impertinent invaders come over here --- how dare they  
That's when the hostile/old guard and deeply seated resentments flourish and the festering butt boil starts forming anew!

scrat wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:
Finding that this 'KKK' mindset is established in the very young and ingrained in their daily life 24/7 has been at the forefront for the longevity/solidarity of the 'KKK' brotherhood. 
The brain washing of what race to hate - what gender to control - what 'PEOPLE' to fear and what would be acceptable has be started long before that child begins to question or has the courage of 'free thought'! And toss in the right amount of some controlling religion and you've got the perfect balance.  
It worked well for Hitler and his 'Brown Shirt Youth Groups' and it's been successful for the 'KKK' too. 
How do we eradicate a 'mindset' that couldn't be eradicated post WWII? We can't erase Al Quida - Taliban they just change their flag and their attire and keep right on morphing into other names - other regions and starting anew?  Not that I'm for giving up --- NOOOO, that's never an option, but look at the heinous deeply seated pockets of racial hate that flare up world wide when the 'colored immigrants' flee their boundaries!

They are always tolerated - acknowledged - acceptable when 'THEY REMAIN OVER THERE, where they belong' ...it's when those impertinent invaders come over here --- how dare they  
That's when the hostile/old guard and deeply seated resentments flourish and the festering butt boil starts forming anew!

Good to see you back on here, and you're right there's too much hatred in the world, question is when and how are we going to fight back against it.

And then again, Scrat ...there are those that walk & breath among us that are just quite happy to be vile & ugly and there's no changing their disgusting mindset - except to explain how repugnant their words and attitude are regardless.  It's all we have; they won't change their disgusting ways of behavior nor more than those that can hide behind their FAKE FAITH and use their religions as a shield from which to toss morality bombs at other humans!          

4EVER2 wrote:

scrat wrote:
Good to see you back on here, and you're right there's too much hatred in the world, question is when and how are we going to fight back against it.

Good to read your and see you've managed to HANG ON, despite the ugly onslaught waged against you way of thinking!


Fighting Back: seems that would be as easy as holding onto 'water'!  How does one change a vile mindset '?' ...well IMO it should never be petted and encouraged - given moral support and affection pats on the head or back. 
Shaming the vile & ugly neardowells into a STFU or pausing for a clarity of thought about their rational for those vile & ugly racially geared/biased feelings should be the way to start.  But far too often it becomes a 'tag team' of playing favorites instead of disavowing the blatant WRONG in what is being perpetrated by anyone from any side! 
People just would far rather 'BUDDY UP' and encourage or remain mute to the morally wrongs things said or done then to take a stand and protect any other human getting insulted/put down/verbally attacked/or physically assaulted by mankind ...then to do the right thing and say ENOUGH! 

'Silent Consent' is just as mean spirited as those that 'BIBLE THUMP' because they assume they are GOD's chosen and have the inalienable right to judge, while the 'Silent Consenters' just don't want to get pulled in to the fray!  
And then again, Scrat ...there are those that walk & breath among us that are just quite happy to be vile & ugly and there's no changing their disgusting mindset - except to explain how repugnant their words and attitude are regardless.  It's all we have; they won't change their disgusting ways of behavior nor more than those that can hide behind their FAKE FAITH and use their religions as a shield from which to toss morality bombs at other humans!          

scrat wrote:

4EVER2 wrote:
Good to read your and see you've managed to HANG ON, despite the ugly onslaught waged against you way of thinking!


Fighting Back: seems that would be as easy as holding onto 'water'!  How does one change a vile mindset '?' ...well IMO it should never be petted and encouraged - given moral support and affection pats on the head or back. 
Shaming the vile & ugly neardowells into a STFU or pausing for a clarity of thought about their rational for those vile & ugly racially geared/biased feelings should be the way to start.  But far too often it becomes a 'tag team' of playing favorites instead of disavowing the blatant WRONG in what is being perpetrated by anyone from any side! 
People just would far rather 'BUDDY UP' and encourage or remain mute to the morally wrongs things said or done then to take a stand and protect any other human getting insulted/put down/verbally attacked/or physically assaulted by mankind ...then to do the right thing and say ENOUGH! 

'Silent Consent' is just as mean spirited as those that 'BIBLE THUMP' because they assume they are GOD's chosen and have the inalienable right to judge, while the 'Silent Consenters' just don't want to get pulled in to the fray!  
And then again, Scrat ...there are those that walk & breath among us that are just quite happy to be vile & ugly and there's no changing their disgusting mindset - except to explain how repugnant their words and attitude are regardless.  It's all we have; they won't change their disgusting ways of behavior nor more than those that can hide behind their FAKE FAITH and use their religions as a shield from which to toss morality bombs at other humans!          

It is difficult to grasp the reasoning of those folk who tolerate racism, homophobia and bigotry, they're convinced that spouting such hatred is free speech, it is not free speech if it incite's far right extremists to commit acts of terrorism.

When I was a child I looked on at America with awe and wonderment, i watched the civil rights struggle, I was clued to the TV during the moon landings, the trauma of Vietnam, the falling of the Berlin Wall and the election of a black president (IMO the best president that nation has had since Roosevelt), what on earth has gone wrong?

And those willing to commit murder/bomb/threaten more mayhem and killings due to the PP {planned parenthood clinics} are funded and supported by the same 'Right Leaning Wing Nut Bible Thumpers' from that era!  All good white folk - with their bibles in one hand and their weapons of destruction in the other ...doing Gods work

His talk show began in 1984 at Sacramento, California radio station KFBK, featuring his ongoing format of political commentary and listener calls. In 1988, Limbaugh began broadcasting his show nationally from radio station WABC in New York City, and the show's flagship station became WOR in 2014. He currently lives in Palm Beach, Florida, where he broadcasts The Rush Limbaugh Show. According to December 2015 estimates by Talkers Magazine, Rush Limbaugh has a cume (cumulative weekly audience) of around 13.25 million unique listeners (listening for at least five minutes), making it the most listened-to talk-radio program in the US. In the 1990s, Limbaugh's books The Way Things Ought to Be (1992) and See, I Told You So (1993) made The New York Times Best Seller list. Limbaugh frequently criticizes, in his books and on his show, what he regards as liberal policies and politicians, as well as what he perceives as a pervasive liberal bias in major U.S. media. Limbaugh is among the highest paid people in U.S. media, signing a contract in 2008 for $400 million through 2016. In 2015, Forbes listed his earnings at $79 million for the previous 12 months, and ranked him the 11th highest earning celebrity in the world. His most recent contract, signed on July 31, 2016, will take his radio program to 2020, its 32nd year.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy, you're still playing, even after I've called you out.  The game is over.  

Are you saying that the truth is 'racist/homophobic'...?

Or are you saying that I am 'racist/homophobic' for posting the truth...?

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Are you saying that the truth is 'racist/homophobic'...?

Or are you saying that I am 'racist/homophobic' for posting the truth...?

No, I'm saying your selection of things to highlight as "truth" is most exclusive.  There are two levels by which a poster might be read, one is the specific and singular article or topic, then there is the meta-level of a constant theme, over and over again.  In the latter type of communication you see the preoccupation of the poster...always and always, the same old thing.

What was his name, Big Al?  He used to do the same thing.  In the single story there are just the facts of the single incident, but in the meta-level there is incessant racism and homophobia, communicated by the selection of things about which to post.  It's deliberate ambiguity.

Go back to your own example, the Ohio State kid.  First, you've got a strange sense of cause and effect, blaming ISIS for a kid they have never heard of.  And second, you hammer over and over on Muslims, and therein is your meta-level message.  And please don't tell me it's random...prothlesizers don't do random.

nicko wrote:
SASS, I joined 7-12-13.
you joined 4-1-15.

I 'm sure they were on then.

Could be with different names.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, I'm saying your selection of things to highlight as "truth" is most exclusive.  There are two levels by which a poster might be read, one is the specific and singular article or topic, then there is the meta-level of a constant theme, over and over again.  In the latter type of communication you see the preoccupation of the poster...always and always, the same old thing.

What was his name, Big Al?  He used to do the same thing.  In the single story there are just the facts of the single incident, but in the meta-level there is incessant racism and homophobia, communicated by the selection of things about which to post.  It's deliberate ambiguity.

Go back to your own example, the Ohio State kid.  First, you've got a strange sense of cause and effect, blaming ISIS for a kid they have never heard of.  And second, you hammer over and over on Muslims, and therein is your meta-level message.  And please don't tell me it's random...prothlesizers don't do random.

The truth is the truth...