CAR: Christian mob burns Muslims in the streets

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:46 pm

A Christian mob in the Central African Republic capital Bangui has killed and burned two Muslims in the street, in the latest sectarian clash.

The gangs told the BBC they would carry on killing Muslims in their area.

French and African Union soldiers are struggling to contain sectarian violence that erupted after largely Muslim rebels took over the country.

MPs are due to select a new interim president on Monday, a week after rebel leader Michel Djotodia quit the post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25802780

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:48 pm

Happens all the time there. Lorry loads of muslims trying to flee have been pulled out and beaten to death.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:50 pm

Sorry Ben that does not fit the extremist view that all Muslims are terrorists or that people from religious groups even though so many are peaceful can be indoctrinated to hate with things that have no connection to religion and how people use religion as an excuse to commit crimes/

Sorry that just really shows what I am saying is right, it is conflicts, revenge, anger that commits people to for wrongs, not religions, religions is just the excuse to why they are done.

Sorry for the irony Ben is needed with some now on here

lol!

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:51 pm

what goes around comes around

Muslims massacre all other religious minorities on a daily basis and in numbers far greater than 2 at a time

maybe the christian mobs have finally had enough and decided to give the Muslims a taste of their own murderous medicine

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:53 pm

Smelly just hates it when his stereotypes are knocked off their perch. The Lords Resistance Army has been slaughtering muslims in CAR for many, many years.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:55 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:what goes around comes around

Muslims massacre all other religious minorities on a daily basis and in numbers far greater than 2 at a time

maybe the christian mobs have finally had enough and decided to give the Muslims a taste of their own murderous medicine

The logic of being raised to a failed system, apartheid, two wrongs make a right, because as you see again a failed argument, not Muslims, some Muslims extremists try to kill on a daily bases, it is all numbers to the far right, not why events make anger or create extremism in the first place, the root cause is not looked at well to smelly it is, he sees only that a religious book is the cause, though neglecting the fact millions upon millions of Muslims do not act according to his claim as has been the same case for centuries through history One thing we all know is that when religion has a voice in authority it is bad news, no matter the faith, rules are made thus on myths. We had this also for centuries until some starting standing up to religion, now the west has no fear anymore from religious persecution, we did away from people trying to control our lives, in time those within Islam will be the same

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:00 pm

I don't know why you bother talking to him. I wouldn't bother arguing with the Westboro Church either, and they are in the same league.

by ALLAKAKA Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:24 pm

How Sad , it's always the Innocents who suffer.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:34 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:

How Sad , it's always the Innocents who suffer.

Even more so when people who have no involvement, involve themselves into this by choosing sides and promoting hate.

by ALLAKAKA Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:38 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:

How Sad , it's always the Innocents who suffer.

Even more so when people who have no involvement, involve themselves into this by choosing sides and promoting hate.

Totally agree , this is an internal matter for the people of CAR to sort out themselves.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:41 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Even more so when people who have no involvement, involve themselves into this by choosing sides and promoting hate.

Totally agree , this is an internal matter for the people of CAR to sort out themselves.

How is that in anyway the same, the point is they do and can sort it out, showing how it can be done?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:02 pm

It's like I was saying in Sassy's thread on CAR the other day, it's just really hard to pick out the good guys in this one. I'm opting for "those not actively murdering people," on either side.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:15 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:what goes around comes around

Muslims massacre all other religious minorities on a daily basis and in numbers far greater than 2 at a time

maybe the christian mobs have finally had enough and decided to give the Muslims a taste of their own murderous medicine

The logic of being raised to a failed system, apartheid, two wrongs make a right, because as you see again a failed argument, not Muslims, some Muslims extremists try to kill on a daily bases, it is all numbers to the far right, not why events make anger or create extremism in the first place, the root cause is not looked at well to smelly it is, he sees only that a religious book is the cause, though neglecting the fact millions upon millions of Muslims do not act according to his claim as has been the same case for centuries through history One thing we all know is that when religion has a voice in authority it is bad news, no matter the faith, rules are made thus on myths. We had this also for centuries until some starting standing up to religion, now the west has no fear anymore from religious persecution, we did away from people trying to control our lives, in time those within Islam will be the same

I have explained it a thousand times and more to you

Not very Muslim is the same

Not every Muslim is equal in devotion or fanaticism

Yet you continue to push this fallacy that unless all Muslims do say or act in a certain way then that religious obligation doesn't exist

Utterly ridiculous of course

For example the qur'an prohibits the consumption of alcohol, but not every Muslim refrains from drinking, according to you this means that there is no prohibition of alcohol in the qur'an because not every Muslim observes it

The fact remains that Muslims are turned to fanaticism by their increased devotion to their religion which almost always results in jihadist activity

In the CAR it is a reversal of roles which is no doubt compounded by the daily ongoing global genocide of Christians under Islamic rule

What goes around comes around and Muslims have a lot to answer for

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:16 pm

You ready to answer for all the crimes ever committed by whatever religious, ethnic, etc. group you come from, Smelly?

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:18 pm

By that standard, we have a hell of a lot more to answer for. The people we have tortured and killed, the countries we have stripped of assets, the injustices we have perpetuated, in your view we are obviously getting our comeupance, so why all the screaming about terrorists?

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:You ready to answer for all the crimes ever committed by whatever religious, ethnic, etc. group you come from, Smelly?

Hundreds of billions of pounds and dollars In foreign aid to sick lame and lazy third world countries has more than covered the debt to the end of humankind I think

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:You ready to answer for all the crimes ever committed by whatever religious, ethnic, etc. group you come from, Smelly?

Smelly is S.African who ran to Britain when apartheid finished, so his community has got much to answer for.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:22 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:You ready to answer for all the crimes ever committed by whatever religious, ethnic, etc. group you come from, Smelly?

Hundreds of billions of pounds and dollars In foreign aid to sick lame and lazy third world countries has more than covered the debt to the end of humankind I think

Wow, did you pay all of that by yourSELF?

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:23 pm

Sassy wrote:By that standard, we have a hell of a lot more to answer for. The people we have tortured and killed, the countries we have stripped of assets, the injustices we have perpetuated, in your view we are obviously getting our comeupance, so why all the screaming about terrorists?

Slate wiped clean by the hundreds of billions if pounds and dollars in foreign aid that has saved helped and elevated more than we killed enslaved or oppressed

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:25 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Sassy wrote:By that standard, we have a hell of a lot more to answer for. The people we have tortured and killed, the countries we have stripped of assets, the injustices we have perpetuated, in your view we are obviously getting our comeupance, so why all the screaming about terrorists?

Slate wiped clean by the hundreds of billions if pounds and dollars in foreign aid that has saved helped and elevated more than we killed enslaved or oppressed

You think money pays for all those killed and tortured? Well, probably in your mind it does, cos you're not normal are you lol And the money we have paid doesn't begin to cover it.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:26 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Hundreds of billions of pounds and dollars In foreign aid to sick lame and lazy third world countries has more than covered the debt to the end of humankind I think

Wow, did you pay all of that by yourSELF?

I thought you were talking about the sins of my ethnic/religious group collectively

If you want to move the goalposts then the point is moot since I have no crime or sin to answer for

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:28 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Hundreds of billions of pounds and dollars In foreign aid to sick lame and lazy third world countries has more than covered the debt to the end of humankind I think

Wow, did you pay all of that by yourSELF?

I thought you were talking about the sins of my ethnic/religious group collectively

If you want to move the goalposts then the point is moot since I have no crime or sin to answer for

Which was exactly my point. You don't want to be lumped in with bad guys from your group -- why do you do it to Muslims or any other group?

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:28 pm

Sassy wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Slate wiped clean by the hundreds of billions if pounds and dollars in foreign aid that has saved helped and elevated more than we killed enslaved or oppressed

You think money pays for all those killed and tortured? Well, probably in your mind it does, cos you're not normal are you lol And the money we have paid doesn't begin to cover it.

It's most certainly does

In Afghanistan when civilians are accidentally killed the family turn up wanting money.

So yeah money talks and we have paid more than our fair share

Hell we are probably in credit

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:31 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You think money pays for all those killed and tortured? Well, probably in your mind it does, cos you're not normal are you lol And the money we have paid doesn't begin to cover it.

It's most certainly does

In Afghanistan when civilians are accidentally killed the family turn up wanting money.

So yeah money talks and we have paid more than our fair share

Hell we are probably in credit

Really, going all the way back to all the countries we have caused mayhem in. We haven't begun.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:54 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

The logic of being raised to a failed system, apartheid, two wrongs make a right, because as you see again a failed argument, not Muslims, some Muslims extremists try to kill on a daily bases, it is all numbers to the far right, not why events make anger or create extremism in the first place, the root cause is not looked at well to smelly it is, he sees only that a religious book is the cause, though neglecting the fact millions upon millions of Muslims do not act according to his claim as has been the same case for centuries through history One thing we all know is that when religion has a voice in authority it is bad news, no matter the faith, rules are made thus on myths. We had this also for centuries until some starting standing up to religion, now the west has no fear anymore from religious persecution, we did away from people trying to control our lives, in time those within Islam will be the same

I have explained it a thousand times and more to you

Not very Muslim is the same
Spell check not working? :D

Not every Muslim is equal in devotion or fanaticism
So the vast majority then is not devoted or is fanatical then and never has been since the creation of Islam, very odd??

Yet you continue to push this fallacy that unless all Muslims do say or act in a certain way then that religious obligation doesn't exist
Well as seen many Muslims have different beliefs the worst one is Islamism, which is a is a controversial neologism, there are many varied views within Islam, being as it is not based on just the Quran though there are some Muslims that only follow the Quran, the point is there is much left open for interpretation, hence the different view points on the faith. We see the same in many faiths, you have Sikh, Christian, Jewish, Bhuddist extremists etc, it happens in all of them, because some people of hate use the faith as a means to justify their actions, it does not mean the faith actually does, or this would actually be reflected by the vast ,majority doing so and this is never the case

Utterly ridiculous of course

For example the qur'an prohibits the consumption of alcohol, but not every Muslim refrains from drinking, according to you this means that ]there is no prohibition of alcohol in the qur'an because not every Muslim observes it
Yet the Quran also says not to kill innocent people including women and children and even more so innocent Muslims and yet extremists do, yet according to you there is no prohibition from killing innocent people in the quran when there is. Funny how you can easily use the words and point someone makes to turn their whole argument on its head

The fact remains that Muslims are turned to fanaticism by their increased devotion to their religion which almost always results in jihadist activity
Yet not once Muslims has ever read the quran and then just decided out of the blue to murder someone. We know what drives people to extremists groups is where events happen, or people are unhappy with a situation, this is what drives extremism fueled by people also of hate

In the CAR it is a reversal of roles which is no doubt compounded by the daily ongoing global genocide of Christians under Islamic rule

What goes around comes around and Muslims have a lot to answer for

So now Muslims by association have a lot to answer for even though the vast majority are innocent of anything wrong. Thus in the one breath you say not every Muslim is the same and many are not fanatical but you cast all with getting their just deserves by your last point. sorry that is a no brainer

by ALLAKAKA Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:57 pm

I find the logic of some people contradictory , When I state that I'm English and can trace my family back over a Thousand years in England , I'm told I have no more claim on my England than an African who arrived here last week , yet I'm to blame for all the things my fellow countrymen did in the past . Now logic dictates all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.

by Guest Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:59 pm

ALLAKAKA wrote:I find the logic of some people contradictory , When I state that I'm English and can trace my family back over a Thousand years in England , I'm told I have no more claim on my England than an African who arrived here last week , yet I'm to blame for all the things my fellow countrymen did in the past . Now logic dictates all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.

Well as English comes from the Angles you would have to be 100% descended from the Angles, are you?

Of course I would never deny you being English as many people are English being as it is made up of many different ethnic groups, which did not even exist as a people 2000 years ago

Nobody is to blame for events they did not live in an era of.

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:13 am

ALLAKAKA wrote:I find the logic of some people contradictory , When I state that I'm English and can trace my family back over a Thousand years in England , I'm told I have no more claim on my England than an African who arrived here last week , yet I'm to blame for all the things my fellow countrymen did in the past . Now logic dictates all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.

What about the well over 1 billion Muslims who live out their peaceful everyday lives and don't hurt anybody? Why do right-wingers lump them all into the same group as al Qaeda?

CAR: Christian mob burns Muslims in the streets Picture-125

CAR: Christian mob burns Muslims in the streets Picture-125

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:18 am

PhilDidge wrote:
ALLAKAKA wrote:I find the logic of some people contradictory , When I state that I'm English and can trace my family back over a Thousand years in England , I'm told I have no more claim on my England than an African who arrived here last week , yet I'm to blame for all the things my fellow countrymen did in the past . Now logic dictates all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.

Well as English comes from the Angles you would have to be 100% descended from the Angles, are you?

Of course I would never deny you being English as many people are English being as it is made up of many different ethnic groups, which did not even exist as a people 2000 years ago

Nobody is to blame for events they did not live in an era of.

The Era they live in . Then when you look at the rants of Adebolajo and Adebolawe the killers of Lee Rigby , as British citizens they stated to the British public that their actions were in REPRISAL for what the British were doing in Muslim lands , so they were guilty of that themselves ,but deny that.

It all seems to get twisted in some people.

by veya_victaous Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:18 am

@Phil and Alla
just because you are not to blame doesn't mean you cant try and fix it.

But...

all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.

I will accept that, generally they way people seem to view non-aboriginal Australian's treatment or Aboriginals, even though the majority of non-aboriginals families have been here less than 3 generations and most of the 'crimes' were commited before that by people that called themselves English not Australians.
tongue

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:28 am

veya_victaous wrote:@Phil and Alla
just because you are not to blame doesn't mean you cant try and fix it.

But...
all those who have settled in England then must equally be to blame.
I will accept that, generally they way people seem to view non-aboriginal Australian's treatment or Aboriginals, even though the majority of non-aboriginals families have been here less than 3 generations and most of the 'crimes' were commited before that by people that called themselves English not Australians.

I think you'll find a lot of those called themselves IRISH and other Nationalities.

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:30 am

Kind of like the original slave owners in modern-day America called themselves British, eh Allah?

by ALLAKAKA Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:36 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Kind of like the original slave owners in modern-day America called themselves British, eh Allah?

Modern Day ??? well it may be to you Septics but our history goes much further back.

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:42 am

Where's the "C" Kaka? Wink

by veya_victaous Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:56 am

@Alla
not the ones took stuff in the name of the Crown.

the Irish were also famously oppressed here by the English, produced Outlaw legend Ned Kelly. Plus I don't know if stuff the English make you do as a convict (almost a slave) counts as YOU doing it.

Edward "Ned" Kelly (June 1854 or 1855 – 11 November 1880)[1] was an Irish Australian bushranger. Kelly's legacy is controversial; some consider him to be a murderous villain, while others view him as a folk hero and Australia's equivalent of Robin Hood.[2]

Kelly was born in Victoria to an Irish convict father, and as a young man he clashed with the Victoria Police. Following an incident at his home in 1878, police parties searched for him in the bush. After he and his colleagues killed three policemen, the colonial government proclaimed Kelly and his gang wanted outlaws.

A final violent confrontation with police took place at Glenrowan on 28 June 1880. Kelly, dressed in home-made plate metal armour and a helmet, was captured and sent to gaol. He was convicted of three counts of wilful murder[3] and hanged at Old Melbourne Gaol in November 1880. His daring and notoriety made him an iconic figure in Australian history, folklore, literature, art and film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly

Some Welsh I guess scratch

but no one ever admits to being welsh tongue

by Beekeeper Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:36 am

"THE Lord's Resistance Army" is simply the flip side of the Muslim's Taliban-linked gangs in that part of the world...

They always like to link themselves to their nominal "religious beliefs" as part-and-parcel of their third-rate attempts at excusing their base behaviour and savagery..

BUT at the end of the day, their savagery only proves that neither Christianity nor Islam have ANY real place in their meaningless existence, but they only barely pay lip-service to religions that they don't even believe in, let alone follow.

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:55 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

I thought you were talking about the sins of my ethnic/religious group collectively

If you want to move the goalposts then the point is moot since I have no crime or sin to answer for

Which was exactly my point. You don't want to be lumped in with bad guys from your group -- why do you do it to Muslims or any other group?

Sorry Ben but I've gotten used to "debating" with some very serious professional simpletons in the past whose idea of debate means being as vague and ambiguous as possible

You raise a good point which I'm MORE than happy to discuss, but you're coming from a very subjective position which doesn't lend itself to an honest and factual conversation.

But I'm going to need a few more specifics on who these "bad guys" from my "group" are and what it is they are doing that I should not want to be associated with.

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:58 am

Sassy wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

It's most certainly does

In Afghanistan when civilians are accidentally killed the family turn up wanting money.

So yeah money talks and we have paid more than our fair share

Hell we are probably in credit

Really, going all the way back to all the countries we have caused mayhem in. We haven't begun.

Well then i suggest you open YOUR wallet and get paying

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:19 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

I have explained it a thousand times and more to you

Not very Muslim is the same
Spell check not working? :D

Not every Muslim is equal in devotion or fanaticism
So the vast majority then is not devoted or is fanatical then and never has been since the creation of Islam, very odd??

Yet you continue to push this fallacy that unless all Muslims do say or act in a certain way then that religious obligation doesn't exist
Well as seen many Muslims have different beliefs the worst one is Islamism, which is a is a controversial neologism, there are many varied views within Islam, being as it is not based on just the Quran though there are some Muslims that only follow the Quran, the point is there is much left open for interpretation, hence the different view points on the faith. We see the same in many faiths, you have Sikh, Christian, Jewish, Bhuddist extremists etc, it happens in all of them, because some people of hate use the faith as a means to justify their actions, it does not mean the faith actually does, or this would actually be reflected by the vast ,majority doing so and this is never the case

Utterly ridiculous of course

For example the qur'an prohibits the consumption of alcohol, but not every Muslim refrains from drinking, according to you this means that ]there is no prohibition of alcohol in the qur'an because not every Muslim observes it
Yet the Quran also says not to kill innocent people including women and children and even more so innocent Muslims and yet extremists do, yet according to you there is no prohibition from killing innocent people in the quran when there is. Funny how you can easily use the words and point someone makes to turn their whole argument on its head

The fact remains that Muslims are turned to fanaticism by their increased devotion to their religion which almost always results in jihadist activity
Yet not once Muslims has ever read the quran and then just decided out of the blue to murder someone. We know what drives people to extremists groups is where events happen, or people are unhappy with a situation, this is what drives extremism fueled by people also of hate

In the CAR it is a reversal of roles which is no doubt compounded by the daily ongoing global genocide of Christians under Islamic rule

What goes around comes around and Muslims have a lot to answer for

So now Muslims by association have a lot to answer for even though the vast majority are innocent of anything wrong. Thus in the one breath you say not every Muslim is the same and many are not fanatical but you cast all with getting their just deserves by your last point. sorry that is a no brainer

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:26 am

ALLAKAKA wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Well as English comes from the Angles you would have to be 100% descended from the Angles, are you?

Of course I would never deny you being English as many people are English being as it is made up of many different ethnic groups, which did not even exist as a people 2000 years ago

Nobody is to blame for events they did not live in an era of.

The Era they live in . Then when you look at the rants of Adebolajo and Adebolawe the killers of Lee Rigby , as British citizens they stated to the British public that their actions were in REPRISAL for what the British were doing in Muslim lands , so they were guilty of that themselves ,but deny that.

It all seems to get twisted in some people.

So you say it is about reprisals, well done, smelly could learn something from you on that as he believes they are ordered to do so both the Quran. We have had citizens betray their nation before plenty of times in this country sadly, this does happen.

They were guilty of murder, these are Islamists, indoctrinated by Anjem Choudary, something we need to tackle in this country

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

I thought you were talking about the sins of my ethnic/religious group collectively

If you want to move the goalposts then the point is moot since I have no crime or sin to answer for

Which was exactly my point. You don't want to be lumped in with bad guys from your group -- why do you do it to Muslims or any other group?

Sorry Ben but I've gotten used to "debating" with some very serious professional simpletons in the past whose idea of debate means being as vague and ambiguous as possible

You raise a good point which I'm MORE than happy to discuss, but you're coming from a very subjective position which doesn't lend itself to an honest and factual conversation.

But I'm going to need a few more specifics on who these "bad guys" from my "group" are and what it is they are doing that I should not want to be associated with.

Well, that's also an important point. You associate Muslims with the 9/11 hijackers and that would seem very subjective to a peaceful Muslim who had nothing to do with the attacks. It would be exactly like if you were to assume that all Christians are the likes of Scott Roeder, who murdered an abortion doctor in his church.

It's all about lumping people into groups and defining them by the deeds of their worst members. If you were to lump human beings into one group and define them by the deeds of bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin, etc., you'd condemn all of humanity. If you were to define us by MLK, Ghandi, etc., you'd think we were all saints.

The truth resists simple explanation, so every time you define a group of people by one trait, you're engaging in falsehoods.

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:00 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:It's like I was saying in Sassy's thread on CAR the other day, it's just really hard to pick out the good guys in this one. I'm opting for "those not actively murdering people," on either side.

It's the same good guys in every war - the women!

by Ben Reilly Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:46 pm

Uh, nope:

CAR: Christian mob burns Muslims in the streets 1012662_835862

She's a Seleka soldier named Maria Musa.

by Guest Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Uh, nope:

She's a Seleka soldier named Maria Musa.

and she's very much in a minority!

by veya_victaous Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:15 pm

@tess
not in Africa.
The Only Fundemental preachers I have seen in the Refugees we have taken, Have been Women, all the men seem quite Happy to sit around, look for work, drink coffee and enjoy not fighting.

It was funny one used to go on and on in main street all the time but she kept getting confronted (often by Asian/Arab/Indian women) by people telling her she wasn't even making sense, and if she wanted to keep preaching the "Take up arms for God" Bullshit she can fuck off. I must of been amoungst a dozen people laughing when she got double teamed by a head scarf wearing woman(couldn't pick her nationality, quite fair but not english decent) and the old Thai lady that runs the dry cleaners there.

A lot of Africans(mainly Sudanese) came to my area, it's called Blacktown and they mistook that for instructions, I guess Laughing

by Guest Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Sorry Ben but I've gotten used to "debating" with some very serious professional simpletons in the past whose idea of debate means being as vague and ambiguous as possible

You raise a good point which I'm MORE than happy to discuss, but you're coming from a very subjective position which doesn't lend itself to an honest and factual conversation.

But I'm going to need a few more specifics on who these "bad guys" from my "group" are and what it is they are doing that I should not want to be associated with.

Well, that's also an important point. You associate Muslims with the 9/11 hijackers and that would seem very subjective to a peaceful Muslim who had nothing to do with the attacks. It would be exactly like if you were to assume that all Christians are the likes of Scott Roeder, who murdered an abortion doctor in his church.

It's all about lumping people into groups and defining them by the deeds of their worst members. If you were to lump human beings into one group and define them by the deeds of bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin, etc., you'd condemn all of humanity. If you were to define us by MLK, Ghandi, etc., you'd think we were all saints.

The truth resists simple explanation, so every time you define a group of people by one trait, you're engaging in falsehoods.

lets be clear here

the 9/11 attack WAS carried out by Muslims, i don't imagine that you have special access to secret information that proves otherwise, therefore if you don't believe it was Muslims then your belief is based on pure speculation, so its not subjective its fact.

now you raise a good point, however, scott roeder carried out a murder on the basis that he considered it a sin, his religion is utterly irrelevant beyond being part of his motivation,since anti abortionist movements are NOT peopled exclusively by Christians

there will be atheists anti abortionists who do not feel that it is a religious sin to abort but a moral one, and will be equally as rabid in their views and indeed there are anti abortionist movements across the globe manned by people of all sexes colors creeds and faiths

so the "group" he belongs to isn't Christianity its "anti abortionist", so the "lumping" assumption could NEVER be that all Christians are like him but rather that all anti abortionists are like him

you've crossed you're wires there.

but i understand your point though i do think you should have chosen examples that are a bit more Christian specific, for example the westboro church

lumping all Christians in with them is the effect you were trying to achieve i believe.

however even if someone did lump all Christians in with them it is a rather simple matter to counter and the basis that the major christian organizations don't accept or condone or support them, there is a clear breaking of ranks and a prominent defining line that very clearly segregates mainstream Christianity from the westboro lot

its about a public stance adopted across the board, that there is mainstream Christianity and then there is the westboro church.

does that make sense??

with Muslims it IS different since the jihadists and the Muslim supremacists(the worst of the "group") are not comprised of people from different faiths, they are ALL of them, the peaceful ones and the jihadists,of a single belief system - Islam

so when these nutcases are declaring that they are fighting for Islam,it is not possible to separate them from Islam and give them some other motivation.

there are no "two Islams" one followed by the naughty Muslims and one by the good ones, there is only one Islam which is followed by all Muslims - the good and the bad alike, and that means that all Muslims are immediately and thrown into the same pot

this is where the choice over whether they want to be lumped together becomes theirs and theirs alone

as it stands, anytime anyone says anything critical of Islam,ALL Muslims immediately put heir differences aside, close ranks and present a unified front to what they believe is an attack on their religion, "moderates" will happily stand shoulder to shoulder with fanatics in defense of Islam

and that is their choice.

if the good Muslims don't want to be lumped in with the bad ones then it is their responsibility to initiate a world wide concerted effort to break ranks and draw a line in the sand.

but that will never happen, because for that to happen Muslims need to be honest about their faith and accept that its flawed like all things man made, only once that collective acceptance happens can there by any kind of much needed reform within Islam

Islam needs to be reformed to the point where its doctrine is no longer violently applied by its believers and where those believers actively oppose,isolate and Marginalize any Muslims who do apply the qur'anic commands violently, as is the current format

it is not my responsibility to try and decrypt the maze of Islamic politics and Muslims allegiances to determine which are good and which are bad so that i don't make a PC boo boo and god forbid lump them in the same group

lives are on the line and the threat of a successful terror attack being carried out is the only prize we can expect for being nice and PC

by Guest Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:24 pm

Sassy wrote:Happens all the time there. Lorry loads of muslims trying to flee have been pulled out and beaten to death.

I have never encountered this before, have you any proof or links?

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:27 pm

There are many different Islams, Shia and Sunni being the two biggest sects, with different smaller sects such as the Wahabbi among them. There are different ways of being a Muslim in different countries, from burqas and soccer-pitch executions in Afghanistan to Western dress and use of Western criminal justice systems in Europe, the U.S., Canada, Australia ...

There are Muslims who interpret the idea of jihad in totally different ways. There are anti-abortionists who decried the murder of George Tiller. The world is a mind-blowing range of differing opinions and customs and perspectives, and you insist that the 1.5 billion Muslims of the world are the same as the 9/11 hijackers. That is obviously false and foolish.

You're not a good person because of where you're from, what language you speak or what you believe. You're a good person based on what you say and much more importantly on what you do. If you hurt and oppress people, you're a bad person. If you help people and respect their rights, you're a good person. Everything else is bullshit.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:31 pm

Oh, and if you judge billions of people by the actions of a few, you're not being a tough guy, you're being a twat.

by Guest Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:37 pm

Warren Moon wrote:
Sassy wrote:Happens all the time there. Lorry loads of muslims trying to flee have been pulled out and beaten to death.

I have never encountered this before, have you any proof or links?

20 January 2014
CAR: Interim president must rein in “out of control” militias as Muslims forced to flee
Muslim women and children take shelter in a church in Boali, north of the country's capital Bangui.

Muslim women and children take shelter in a church in Boali, north of the country's capital Bangui.

© ERIC FEFERBERG/AFP/Getty Images

“

People from Muslim communities feel totally unprotected from anti-balaka attacks and terrified about what might happen to them if they stay in the country. Even those who were born in the Central African Republic and have never set foot outside of the country are now trying to escape to Chad.

”
Joanne Mariner Senior Crisis Adviser at Amnesty International.

The new interim President of the Central African Republic must urgently rein in the “out of control” anti-balaka militias currently forcing scores of people from Muslim communities to leave the country in a bid to escape terrifying abuse, Amnesty International said.

Catherine Samba Panza was appointed by the interim parliament as interim President of the African nation today.

“People from Muslim communities feel totally unprotected from anti-balaka attacks and terrified about what might happen to them if they stay in the country. Even those who were born in the Central African Republic and have never set foot outside of the country are now trying to escape to Chad,” said Joanne Mariner Senior Crisis Adviser at Amnesty International, who is currently in the Central African Republic.

“Reining in the anti-balaka militia and ensuring the Muslim population is safe from attack must be a top priority for interim president Catherine Samba Panza.”

Over the past ten days, it has been reported that hundreds of Muslims have been victims of attacks, including unlawful killings, with many being forced to leave their homes.

Amnesty International researchers visited the town of Boali, north of the country’s capital Bangui, on Sunday and found that the town’s Muslim neighborhoods were empty.

Most of the Muslim community had fled the town the previous week after an anti-balaka attack that took place on Friday, in which five Muslims were killed.

Those left behind, up to 850 people, are taking refuge in a local church that was protected by French and African Union peacekeepers. All those interviewed by Amnesty International said they wanted to leave the town to seek safety outside of the Central African Republic, believing that it would not be safe for them to stay.

People from Muslim communities are also reported to have fled in large numbers from the towns of Bossembele, Yakole, and Boyali, as well as many smaller villages, and numerous neighborhoods around Bangui.

Thousands are regrouping on the outskirts of Bangui in a traditionally Muslim neighborhood in the PK12 area. Some are organizing convoys to flee to Chad and Cameroon while others have gathered around the mosque awaiting the opportunity to escape to safety.

Some convoys have faced ambush by anti-balaka militia while attempting to leave the country. Last Friday, 22 civilians, including three children, were killed outside the town of Bouar when their vehicle was attacked. Many of the victims were hacked to death with machetes.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/car-muslim-exodus-2014-01-20

Hope that helps.

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