Labour Getting Just As "Tough" On Scroungers And Immigration

20th January 2014

To be honest, both Labour and the Conservatives have talked tough on immigration for 10+ years, but none have delivered. Why do they talk tough?

But this thread is about Labour, who seem to be trying to copy the Conservatives:

Unemployed people who lack basic English, maths and computing skills should be stripped of benefits unless they take up training, Labour says.

Under the plans, all new claimants of Jobseeker's Allowance would have to sit a basic skills test within six weeks.

"A Labour government will introduce a basic skills test to assess all new claimants for Jobseeker's Allowance within six weeks of claiming benefits.

"Those who don't have the skills they need for a job will have to take up training alongside their job search or lose their benefits.

In her speech, Ms Reeves also addressed the issue of long-term workers being laid off.

They felt "the social security system offers little for them when they need it", she argued, adding that the benefits system had to "better reflect records of contribution".

More experienced people who have paid more in tax would receive a £120 bonus when they are first made unemployed.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25803006

Andy, in short..this is the difference between Labour and the Conservatives...

Conservatives - rip folk up for having no jobs even though many don't exist, assume all immigrants are bad news, encourage hatred towards folk on benefits and the disabled, encourage hate and not help or understanding.



Labour-give folk a chance to prove themselves , even help them as much as they can until folk can get on their feet, see the good in what immigration can bring, especially with folk with skills like doctors etc, encourage help and self belief and unlike the Tories ,don't pitch signs on vans telling immigrants to go home.

Thank me later.

Joy Division wrote:Andy, in short..this is the difference between Labour and the Conservatives...

Conservatives - rip folk up for having no jobs even though many don't exist, assume all immigrants are bad news, encourage hatred towards folk on benefits and the disabled, encourage hate and not help or understanding.



Labour-give folk a chance to prove themselves , even help them as much as they can until folk can get on their feet, see the good in what immigration can bring, especially with folk with skills like doctors etc, encourage help and self belief and unlike the Tories ,don't pitch signs on vans telling immigrants to go home.

Thank me later.

But Labour did nothing for workers apart from lower the wages by bringing in millions of unskilled immigrants.


Which also meant no houses for those in need, massive house price rises for the houses that existed.

What they did was set the ball rolling for complete hatred of immigration and a race to show which Party hates immigrants the most, which is not what BigAndy9 wants.

A complete sham They are doing this because the electorate are disgusted with the shambles Labour left behind. A system were those on benefits get more.

Joy Division wrote:Andy, in short..this is the difference between Labour and the Conservatives...

Conservatives - rip folk up for having no jobs even though many don't exist, assume all immigrants are bad news, encourage hatred towards folk on benefits and the disabled, encourage hate and not help or understanding.



Labour-give folk a chance to prove themselves , even help them as much as they can until folk can get on their feet, see the good in what immigration can bring, especially with folk with skills like doctors etc, encourage help and self belief and unlike the Tories ,don't pitch signs on vans telling immigrants to go home.

Thank me later.

Labour rip off its own voters you plonker.

Brown called his own supporter a racist. Brown denied his own voter a referendum that he had promised. Brown had a secret immigration agenda and denied wholesale immigration knowing full well it was going on.

If there is any doubt you are gormless JD(and there isn't) the fact you applaud your leaders who misled you shows truly how brain dead you are.

Just saw on Sky News that Labour would give those who have worked for 5+ years more benefits than the true scroungers.

That's what I've been saying they should do for years now!

Woohoo for Me and my policies!   

Bump

You bumped a good one here Iron.

So, why would Labour start talking big on these policies all of a sudden and do you think they are good policies?

Politicking. They've alienated their core voters by bringing in so many immigrants to take their jobs; they see the rise in popularity of UKIP and they're trying to please everyone. But in essence there's nothing in it: Make unskilled claimants do training - wow, that's harsh! Don't they do that now anyway? Smoke and mirrors.

BigAndy9 wrote:You bumped a good one here Iron.

So, why would Labour start talking big on these policies all of a sudden and do you think they are good policies?

But Osbprne's very own OBR reports that immigration has has a positive effect and but for them then we would be even deeper in the crap.

Here it is...

https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t1708-osborne-s-very-own-obr-reports-that-immigration-has-a-positive-effect-on-the-economy

BigAndy9 wrote:You bumped a good one here Iron.

So, why would Labour start talking big on these policies all of a sudden and do you think they are good policies?

Policies that go after the real scroungers are good policies. Policies that hammer everyone who is dependent on support to get at the few are not.

I'd like to see more focus on going after the tax evaders and those that don't pay the tax the government expects them to pay as a policy that would yield even better results.

What do you think?

Clarkson wrote:

Joy Division wrote:Andy, in short..this is the difference between Labour and the Conservatives...

Conservatives - rip folk up for having no jobs even though many don't exist, assume all immigrants are bad news, encourage hatred towards folk on benefits and the disabled, encourage hate and not help or understanding.



Labour-give folk a chance to prove themselves , even help them as much as they can until folk can get on their feet, see the good in what immigration can bring, especially with folk with skills like doctors etc, encourage help and self belief and unlike the Tories ,don't pitch signs on vans telling immigrants to go home.

Thank me later.

Labour rip off its own voters you plonker.

Brown called his own supporter a racist. Brown denied his own voter a referendum that he had promised. Brown had a secret immigration agenda and denied wholesale immigration knowing full well it was going on.

If there is any doubt you are gormless JD(and there isn't) the fact you applaud your leaders who misled you shows truly how brain dead you are.

The Lisbon Treaty was not an in/out referendum and no promise was ever given to have one on it.

What was the secret immigration agenda? I keep hearing this but never see any evidence about any secrecy.

And I think that the new idea of testing people when they start to claim so that they get training straight away, instead of having to wait until you have been out of work so many weeks is brilliant.

Sassy wrote:And I think that the new idea of testing people when they start to claim so that they get training straight away, instead of having to wait until you have been out of work so many weeks is brilliant.

Good morning Sassy.

When you say testing people,what test are you referring to?

Shady wrote:

Sassy wrote:And I think that the new idea of testing people when they start to claim so that they get training straight away, instead of having to wait until you have been out of work so many weeks is brilliant.

Good morning Sassy.

When you say testing people,what test are you referring to?

Asking about 10 questions, I should think.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good morning Sassy.

When you say testing people,what test are you referring to?

Asking about 10 questions, I should think.

10 questions about what?

There are some young people who are out of work because they didn't do well in school and lack, for example, good reading comprehension, writing skills and mathmatical ability.   At the moment what is being suggested is that these should be tested, so they can be brought up to scratch if necessary.   I would like to see something like the Morrisby Profile done, which shows up strengths and weaknesses in just about every subject possible.   It's a very long test, and timed to the second for each section, but it shows your abilities in detail and gives you a good idea of what area to head for, job wise.

Sassy wrote:There are some young people who are out of work because they didn't do well in school and lack, for example, good reading comprehension, writing skills and mathmatical ability.   At the moment what is being suggested is that these should be tested, so they can be brought up to scratch if necessary.   I would like to see something like the Morrisby Profile done, which shows up strengths and weaknesses in just about every subject possible.   It's a very long test, and timed to the second for each section, but it shows your abilities in detail and gives you a good idea of what area to head for, job wise.

I see,thank you for that.You'll have to forgive me but I've been out of the news loop for a bit.So a maths & English test of a sorts is proposed for job seekers but what happens if they fail the test? Does failure prevent them from getting a job?

The opposite.   If they find their skills are not good enough, it's proposed that they immediately get training to get them up to scratch, so that they stand more chance of getting a job. At the moment they have to be out of work for quite a while before they qualify for training.

Sassy wrote:There are some young people who are out of work because they didn't do well in school and lack, for example, good reading comprehension, writing skills and mathmatical ability.   At the moment what is being suggested is that these should be tested, so they can be brought up to scratch if necessary.   I would like to see something like the Morrisby Profile done, which shows up strengths and weaknesses in just about every subject possible.   It's a very long test, and timed to the second for each section, but it shows your abilities in detail and gives you a good idea of what area to head for, job wise.

Surely that's the result of a shoddy education system. I read recently that one in five children are leaving primary school unable to read and write properly. Instead of trying to teach them as adults maybe they should concentrate on teaching core subjects properly at school level.

Tess. wrote:

Sassy wrote:There are some young people who are out of work because they didn't do well in school and lack, for example, good reading comprehension, writing skills and mathmatical ability.   At the moment what is being suggested is that these should be tested, so they can be brought up to scratch if necessary.   I would like to see something like the Morrisby Profile done, which shows up strengths and weaknesses in just about every subject possible.   It's a very long test, and timed to the second for each section, but it shows your abilities in detail and gives you a good idea of what area to head for, job wise.

Surely that's the result of a shoddy education system.  I read recently that one in five children are leaving primary school unable to read and write properly.  Instead of trying to teach them as adults maybe they should concentrate on teaching core subjects properly at school level.

That's a bit late for those already looking for work, so hopefully we'll do both. And you'll always get those who don't concentrate at school for many reasons, or who are late developers etc.

Sassy wrote:

Tess. wrote:

Surely that's the result of a shoddy education system.  I read recently that one in five children are leaving primary school unable to read and write properly.  Instead of trying to teach them as adults maybe they should concentrate on teaching core subjects properly at school level.

That's a bit late for those already looking for work, so hopefully we'll do both.   And you'll always get those who don't concentrate at school for many reasons, or who are late developers etc.

no one has ballsed up the education system and let down hundreds of thousands of kids quite the way labour did

Now would you like to produce some evidence of that Geli?

Public spending on education in the UK grew rapidly during the 2000s. Over the decade between 1999–2000 and 2009–10, it grew by 5.1% per year in real terms, the fastest growth over any decade since the mid-1970s. As a result, it rose from 4.5% of national income in 1999–2000 to reach a high point of 6.4% in 2009
–10
.
Public spending on education in the UK fell by 3.5% per year in real terms between 2010–13
This represents the largest cut in education spending period since at least the 1950s

Sassy wrote:Now would you like to produce some evidence of that Geli?

Public spending on education in the UK grew rapidly during the 2000s. Over the decade between 1999–2000 and 2009–10, it grew by 5.1% per year in real terms, the fastest growth over any decade since the mid-1970s. As a result, it rose from 4.5% of national income in 1999–2000 to reach a high point of 6.4% in 2009
–10
.
Public spending on education in the UK fell by 3.5% per year in real terms between 2010–13
This represents the largest cut in education spending period since at least the 1950s

the fact that so many of them left without numeracy and literacy skills should be proof enough. Top businessmen have been on record as saying that so many of them are simply unemployable because of it.

just because labour are brilliant at borrowing and spending doesn't mean they produce good results.

why are you measuring success according to how much money has been spent/squandered/borrowed,,,,,,that doesn't and hasn't produced very good results now has it.

Yeah cause quality of education outcome is directly related to amount of money thrown into it   

Sassy wrote:There are some young people who are out of work because they didn't do well in school and lack, for example, good reading comprehension, writing skills and mathmatical ability.   At the moment what is being suggested is that these should be tested, so they can be brought up to scratch if necessary.   I would like to see something like the Morrisby Profile done, which shows up strengths and weaknesses in just about every subject possible.   It's a very long test, and timed to the second for each section, but it shows your abilities in detail and gives you a good idea of what area to head for, job wise.

Or indeed in your case times tables perhaps?

Your ability to defend someone who is adverse to work is unquestionable.

Seriously Sassy  your dislike of anyone who actually works hard for a living so extreme that you would rather defend those who have never worked.

You have to ask yourself why that is? Have you sought counselling?

the problem with under-educated school leavers are often the result of social/economic/parenting issues that they have been raised with.

Plus Educations systems are forced to teach further and further for the academic core. Sure some of the life skills are great but really probably should be left to parents and let schools focus on Maths, Literacy and Academics.

The teaching of too much is caused by the left, the cutting of funds is the actions of the right. Put them together and you get an overworked/underfunded education sector that fails to achieve its objectives

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with under-educated school leavers are often the result of social/economic/parenting issues that they have been raised with.

Plus Educations systems are forced to teach further and further for the academic core. Sure some of the life skills are great but really probably should be left to parents and let schools focus on Maths, Literacy and Academics.

The teaching of too much is caused by the left, the cutting of funds is the actions of the right. Put them together and you get an overworked/underfunded education sector that fails to achieve its objectives

I think one of the most frustrating things about the modern education system is the insistence on grouping by age. Research clearly shows that things like reading depend on brain development which has different patterns for male and female and which in boys shows a normal age spread up to 7 years old. Yet in the UK if your child is struggling with reading at 6 you start getting all sorts of pressure for testing, and parents are encouraged to do "extra" work etc. I had this with one of my sons - luckily I paid attention to research and refused to let him be tested or put under extra pressure, and around his 7th birthday everything clicked into place - over 8 weeks he went from being considered as having "special needs" to being in the top 3 of the class, and is now predicted As in his GCSEs. If he had been tested and pressured etc at 6 he would probably have ended up hating school and turning off.

Kids do not develop at the same speed or age - why dont we group according to ability and development?

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with under-educated school leavers are often the result of social/economic/parenting issues that they have been raised with.

Plus Educations systems are forced to teach further and further for the academic core. Sure some of the life skills are great but really probably should be left to parents and let schools focus on Maths, Literacy and Academics.

The teaching of too much is caused by the left, the cutting of funds is the actions of the right. Put them together and you get an overworked/underfunded education sector that fails to achieve its objectives

I agree!! To a point that is. My problem is that Labour far from improving social mobility actually legislated to advance the gap.

Browns tax credit system wasn't simply hopelessly labour intensive and costly it was destined to reinforce the dependency on benefits. Frank Fields a left wing Labour MP from Birkenhead had at Tony Blairs behest carried out a two year research on the welfare state.

Brown had leverage over Blair on an internal party issue and said if you want my support Fields report must be quashed.

I may be right wing but I have respect for certain labour MPs and Fields is a star.

Fields recognised the system was not fit for purpose nor was it in keeping with Beveridge's vision.

It seems however that Jeremy Kyle's participants are the real heroes of the left on here.

You wonder why I can't take you lot seriously? Truly you really make Frank out of Shameless look positively admirable.

Clarkson wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with under-educated school leavers are often the result of social/economic/parenting issues that they have been raised with.

Plus Educations systems are forced to teach further and further for the academic core. Sure some of the life skills are great but really probably should be left to parents and let schools focus on Maths, Literacy and Academics.

The teaching of too much is caused by the left, the cutting of funds is the actions of the right. Put them together and you get an overworked/underfunded education sector that fails to achieve its objectives

I agree!! To a point that is. My problem is that Labour far from improving social mobility actually legislated to advance the gap.

Browns tax credit system wasn't simply hopelessly labour intensive and costly it was destined to reinforce the dependency on benefits. Frank Fields a left wing Labour MP from Birkenhead had at Tony Blairs behest carried out a two year research on the welfare state.

Brown had leverage over Blair on an internal party issue and said if you want my support Fields report must be quashed.

I may be right wing but I have respect for certain labour MPs and Fields is a star.

Fields recognised the system was not fit for purpose nor was it in keeping with Beveridge's vision.

It seems however that Jeremy Kyle's participants are the real heroes of the left on here.

You wonder why I can't take you lot seriously?  Truly you really make Frank out of Shameless look positively admirable.

Frank has called it right on food banks - the Legacy of this governments attack on the poorest in our society. He's also launched a scathing attack on Duncan Smith's Universal Credit and the total incompetence of the clown that is responsible for implementing it.

Well said Frank

http://www.frankfield.com/latest-news/articles/news.aspx?p=102589

Clarkson wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the problem with under-educated school leavers are often the result of social/economic/parenting issues that they have been raised with.

Plus Educations systems are forced to teach further and further for the academic core. Sure some of the life skills are great but really probably should be left to parents and let schools focus on Maths, Literacy and Academics.

The teaching of too much is caused by the left, the cutting of funds is the actions of the right. Put them together and you get an overworked/underfunded education sector that fails to achieve its objectives

I agree!! To a point that is. My problem is that Labour far from improving social mobility actually legislated to advance the gap.

Browns tax credit system wasn't simply hopelessly labour intensive and costly it was destined to reinforce the dependency on benefits. Frank Fields a left wing Labour MP from Birkenhead had at Tony Blairs behest carried out a two year research on the welfare state.

Brown had leverage over Blair on an internal party issue and said if you want my support Fields report must be quashed.

I may be right wing but I have respect for certain labour MPs and Fields is a star.

Fields recognised the system was not fit for purpose nor was it in keeping with Beveridge's vision.

It seems however that Jeremy Kyle's participants are the real heroes of the left on here.

You wonder why I can't take you lot seriously?  Truly you really make Frank out of Shameless look positively admirable.

..you know Drinky, it's just one insult after another with you isn't it?,

If folk wish to vote Labour they will, now just focus on your arguments against Labour or whatever without the need to get smart, it's reasons like that...where you try to insult others who do not agree with you , as well as your ilk looking down your nose at folk less well of and labelling everyone on benefits as a scroungers, really DM stuff...

I find it ice redline, how a few supposedly grown men can get their knickers in such a twist at honest posts criticising this coalition,who have made mother U-turns, told folk on van ads to go home, made it near impossible for new claimants to get benefits , upped the working hours to qualify for WTC, slashed all local authorities budgets meaning in some towns it is impossible to find a school and or nursery for autistic children as they have been done away with.

Moreover , many autistic kids are being forced to attend mainstream education as there simply are no longer the funds or resources because of this Tory led coalition.


That's the future for our schools for special needs kids....

You most likely couldn't give a shit about things like that though, a waste of money in your mind now doubt.


I can go on all night, but what really pisses me off is your attitude that because many here do not wish to believe the spin you put on things and  will think for themselves, without the need to be abused or insulted, you can't tell folk to think 'your way', if we all done that then their would be even more of us wrongly labelling the masses on benefits as 'scroungers'.

Just watch how you talk to folk Drinky please, less insults if you please.

Never could understand those who were against a NMW, usually always on the right, now it looks like the immigrants are copping the blame for the NMG...


I would not like to see anyone working for less, regardless of nationality...

One would think we are the only country taking in immigrants, although we can only do so much I know.