The gay community is in denial about Islamism

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

It is almost two months since Omar Mateen walked around the Pulse nightclub in Florida, gunning people down while shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’.  During the assault Mateen spoke to American law enforcement and swore allegiance to Isis.  Frustratingly Omar Mateen failed to call the group ‘so-called Islamic State’, thus betraying a woeful lack of linguistic sensitivity among his other crimes.

A few days later, very much in the shadow of these events, there was a ‘gay pride’ parade in New York.  The huge banner leading the parade at the front read ‘Republican hate kills’.  That is because after a moment’s stunned surprise the American gay rights movement did what all other Western gay rights movements have done, and decided to assiduously duck the issue of Islamic homophobia.  Having spent so many years believing that there was nothing more hateful than a Republican, when someone shouting praise to Allah and swearing allegiance to Islamic State killed 49 gay people America’s gay movement didn’t even bother to commission a new rainbow banner.

As I wrote at the time, although the Western gay press has understandable historical qualms about Christianity it also has a history of dismissing any and all concerns about Islam.  So in the wake of Orlando the gay press was filled not with pieces warning gay people about Islamic gay-hate, but pieces going out of their way to warn people against linking the massacre to Islam or Muslims.  In particular there was a flurry of articles warning gay people not to become ‘haters’.  Which is only the gay version of a wider Western sickness.  You got attacked?  Be careful you don’t become a bigot now.

At the weekend I picked up a copy of the UK gay magazine Attitude – a sort of post-Orlando memorial edition – which showed nothing had changed.  The aim of the edition was not just to avoid treading on any sore Islamic toes, but to deliberately avoid the subject of Islam.  Well these people, as Martin Amis once said in a related context, are disappearing up the fundament of the people who want to kill them.  They should enjoy it while it lasts.  The fact that a majority of British Muslims want being gay in Britain to be made illegal strikes me as a salient and troubling fact even if I can’t seem to get anyone else interested in the point.

Still, perhaps I can recommend some reading material to the gay panjandrums and their straight ‘allies’?  This recommendation is probably not on their usual reading list, but it is the latest issue of the Isis publication ‘Dabiq’ (if you wish to insert your own ‘so-calleds’ into that sentence then please do so).  Although the cover of this latest issue of the magazine is dedicated to the issue of ‘Breaking the cross’ (the Isis belief that Christianity must be destroyed) gays who do not care about this are welcome to flick beyond the cover story.  On page 30 they will find a most illuminating piece about the Orlando nightclub massacre.  It is far more informative than anything that can be found in Gay Times, the Advocate, or Attitude.  It is called ‘Why we hate you and why we fight you.’  The reasons are clearly laid out.

Reason one is because the West is full of ‘disbelievers’ who ‘reject the oneness of Allah’.  Reason two is because ‘your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited’.  Reason three is that ‘in the case of the atheist fringe, we hate you and wage war against you because you disbelieve in the existence of your Lord and creator’.  And so on and so on.  If you have got this far then you are probably worried, like me, by the lack of editorial talent in the Isis camp (or the ‘so-called Isis, so-called camp’).  But go back a step and you will find something even more worrying.  Read again in a little more detail point two – the one about permitting things that ‘Allah’ has forbidden.  I quote the full paragraph:

‘We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power.  In doing so, you desire to rob Allah of his right to be obeyed and you wish to usurp that right for yourselves.  “Legislation is not but for Allah” (Yusuf 40).  Your secular liberalism has led you to tolerate and even support “gay rights”, to allow alcohol, drugs, fornication, gambling, and usury to become widespread, and to encourage the people to mock those who denounce these filthy sins and vices. As such, we wage war against you to stop you from spreading your disbelief and debauchery – your secularism and nationalism, your perverted liberal values, your Christianity and atheism – and all the depravity and corruption they entail. You’ve made it your mission to “liberate” Muslim societies; we’ve made it our mission to fight off your influence and protect mankind from your misguided concepts and your deviant way of life.’

Interesting, isn’t it?  So while the gay press in the UK is trying to make the Orlando massacre about ‘toxic masculinity’ or ‘Islamophobia’ and the US gay rights movement is trying to make it about Marco Rubio, Isis are saying precisely why they want people to attack the West.  One of the reasons they want to attack the West is because of the gays.  Of course there might be some conservatives in America and Britain who respond to such things by saying, ‘crikey – perhaps we ought to clean up our act and go easy on all the perversion, drinking, gambling and gay clubbing’.  But most people – any self-respecting people – will turn around and say ‘screw you’.

I’m not a betting man, but because Isis are so opposed to gambling I’m willing to start.  So in that spirit I would like to take bets: how much longer do people think that gay ‘community leaders’ can keep this denial up for?


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/gay-community-denial-islamism/

[eddie]

Banning religious schools because you think religion is bad isn't fair.
And that's all it is; you dislike religion so you want it banned.

That's for Didge and Les

[Guest]

Banning religious schools because you think religion is bad isn't fair.
And that's all it is; you dislike religion so you want it banned.

That's for Didge and Les

Banning religious schools is to bring about fair teaching in schools as its already a well established fact they are biased and are allowed to be biased on their entry systems, let alone how they will teach a bias based on their faith.
Religion is a subject and is an ideology.

Would you back a school run by the ideology racism?

So why would you back schools that teach prejudice and discrimination in th aspcts of their religious doctrines?

[Eilzel]

Banning religious schools because you think religion is bad isn't fair.
And that's all it is; you dislike religion so you want it banned.

That's for Didge and Les

You just ignored all my point, too difficult to face?

So brainwashing children is ok? And teaching all religions as equal is wrong?

[eddie]

Banning religious schools because you think religion is bad isn't fair.
And that's all it is; you dislike religion so you want it banned.

That's for Didge and Les

You just ignored all my point, too difficult to face?

So brainwashing children is ok? And teaching all religions as equal is wrong?

Brainwashing? I don't agree with that so where would you like me to go with that?
Are you saying the majority of Muslims (other religions) brainwash their children?

Oh and?
I don't ever ever avoid anything!!

"too difficult to face" - watching a child die is too difficult to face - not a fucking question on a forum!

Speak properly Les and don't insult me.

[Guest]

You just ignored all my point, too difficult to face?

So brainwashing children is ok? And teaching all religions as equal is wrong?

Brainwashing? I don't agree with that so where would you like me to go with that?
Are you saying the majority of Muslims (other religions) brainwash their children?

Oh and?
I don't ever ever avoid anything!!

"too difficult to face" - watching a child die is too difficult to face - not a fucking question on a forum!

Speak properly Les and don't insult me.

You just said previously about who is in charge to make and decide what people believe

Well in the Abrahamic faiths people are coerced to believe something that has no evidence exists and even worse take as gospl some of the most prejudiced and discriminating views taught that are claimed to come from an all powerful being and this is done through fear. A fear they will suffer terrible if they do not believe. Fear plays on the insecurities of people and even worse in children, plays off the fact they simple do not understand. From the offset children grow up firmly believeing only this imaginary being is real and what is statd by this in a book is all that matters.

As I said, religions are just ideologies and you would never back a school run by a racist organisation, but you make again exceptions to myths, because you yourself are led by fear, that you need to believe in something as you do not wish death to be the end. That is simple why people believe, thy fear death and that it could be the end. They have not been able to accept that this could very well be the case and be at peace like most athiests are.

Eilzel never insulted you, the fact is you are avoiding both are points and exusing poor beliefs being taught and even worse to children.
Schools should b run based on a neutral system, not favouring anything
Religious schools do not allow for that

[Guest]

See how people who believe in deities get so easily sensitive over religion?

[Eilzel]

You just ignored all my point, too difficult to face?

So brainwashing children is ok? And teaching all religions as equal is wrong?

Brainwashing? I don't agree with that so where would you like me to go with that?
Are you saying the majority of Muslims (other religions) brainwash their children?

Oh and?
I don't ever ever avoid anything!!

"too difficult to face" - watching a child die is too difficult to face - not a fucking question on a forum!

Speak properly Les and don't insult me.

Who is insulting anyone? You didn't answer my points, you are being vague on something and ignoring the many problems that arise from religious belief.

And yes, if you tell a child THIS book is the truth and only this one, and that you must wear a headscarf, mustn't eat this food, mustn't marry this person, must lose part if your genitals and mustn't accept these people, then YES that IS brainwashing. Some schools teach all those things by teaching some religions and this is mostly a problem is Islam. Would we better closing them and giving kids a CHOICE what religion they follow- yes I do. How can you not?

[eddie]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

[Eilzel]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

To wear coverings, to cut bits off their children, to think being gay is wrong etc. Bad enough imo, don't you agree?

And I would expect my child to be taught ALL religions in school, and let them decide what they believe. Don't you see? My way is to give REAL choice to the individual, I would object to my child having religion HIDDEN from them. They have a right to know, so you comparison doesn't work. What I want for my child is what most kids who go to nonfaith schools get, a general teaching of all religions. Foisting one on someone is brainwashing, and it may be harmless some times, but if it means children grow up with beliefs I mention above then that is too high a price to pay, isn't it?

[Guest]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

Based on commands in their faith brainwashed?

Yes

Both are very over sentive on the subject of their faith
That is not happiness

Both considered homosexuality as a sin, and where did this view stem from Eddie?
They both argued that Islam could not change on this even though in the main it has on slavery.
What you have there is evidence of religious people too afraid to question aspects of thir religion incase it could possible harm them in an after life. The process of brainwashing is so complete, the fear again is driving their thought process. As again if they had no fear, they could then question that the hadiths and their intepretations of the Quran may indeed be wrong, because humans are falliable and there is no way to prove that the Quran is authentic as much as the hadiths. Most christians today except the bible is in places not the word of their deity and are able to adapt their faiths based on the good in the religion

Absolute morals and literal belief do not allow for critical thiniking within a religion as when you immediatelly doubt the validty of aspects of a faith, then you have opened the door to reason. Again as Eilzel points out this is about choice, of which religion should be taught as a subject neutrally as its based on faith and nothing evidence based. I mean children grow out of nice beliefs like Santa Cluas, which does not harm anyone other then the pockets of the parents. The reality of the abrahamic faiths in their literal views, is that they conflict completely with equality and the well being of others.

You would not back a EDL or Britains first run school, so why a religious one?

[eddie]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

To wear coverings, to cut bits off their children, to think being gay is wrong etc. Bad enough imo, don't you agree?

And I would expect my child to be taught ALL religions in school, and let them decide what they believe. Don't you see? My way is to give REAL choice to the individual, I would object to my child having religion HIDDEN from them. They have a right to know, so you comparison doesn't work. What I want for my child is what most kids who go to nonfaith schools get, a general teaching of all religions. Foisting one on someone is brainwashing, and it may be harmless some times, but if it means children grow up with beliefs I mention above then that is too high a price to pay, isn't it?

I absolutely agree, as that's what I've done with my children and I don't like religion myself, but I'm sorry, if you say no to all religious schools then it's no to LGBT schools too....isn't it? People have remarked that it's like a brainwashing to encourage schools like that too!
(I do not, obviously. I think it's a bloody great idea)

[Eilzel]

LGBT schools? What are those? Haha. I heard a story of one being considered a couple of years ago in Manchester. I opposed it then and I oppose it now.

Not that being LGBT is remotely comparable to being religious. But yeah, those schools don't exist.

[eddie]

LGBT schools? What are those? Haha. I heard a story of one being considered a couple of years ago in Manchester. I opposed it then and I oppose it now.

Not that being LGBT is remotely comparable to being religious. But yeah, those schools don't exist.

Yes I was talking of the one being proposed - I don't have a problem with "specialist schools". for want of a better word.

[Eilzel]

I do if they promote bad values- homophobia, sexism and forced circumcision all fall into that category for me.

[HoratioTarr]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

It's like baptizing a child. A baby has no sin, so there's no point baptizing them. Baptizing an adult, on the other hand, is the choice of the adult. Religion should be something one chooses to follow as an adult, and not a child. Children shouldn't be encumbered with dogma until they're old enough to decide for themselves. Teaching them from birth is brainwashing. Thankfully, most people grow up to decide then if they wish to keep on following it, but a lot of the time religion gets a psychological foothold that can't be broken. Is that really fair?

[HoratioTarr]

Hmmmm. So if you had a child, and you didn't teach them about religion because YOU don't believe in it, is that brainwashing them into atheism?
I certainly could say so if I so wanted.

"Brainwashing" children. We all do it every day out of love - but who's way is right?

We are all brainwashed les from birth.


Normal every day Muslims aren't teaching them to kill are they? So what are they brainwashing them to do?

Does Zack seem like an unhappy brainwashed person to you? SM??

Do you think teaching children that they will burn in hell is healthy?    That if they sin, they'll suffer torment in the afterlife?   Religion teaches all manner of restrictions and it's only recently that Christianity has loosened its grip on the guilt trips it enforced for centuries.   One only has to look at those ghastly Magdalene Asylums to witness that.  Child abuse on an epic scale.

Most Muslims are restricted in some areas, the women more than the men.   My neighbour is Muslim and both her son and daughter have their marriages already mapped out for them.  There's no option for dating outside of marriage or choosing a love match.    She's having hell at the moment with the daughter who's rebelling, and has just found out her husband of 25 years has been having an affair for two years with a  Westerner.   Happy?   I think not.

[Eilzel]

The idea atheism can be taught is also a non starter. Every child by default is born without religion- it says a lot that the ONLY way people become religious is by listening to years of teachings from holy books. Without those printed words or priests no one could ever possibly become Christian or Muslim etc. Let a child learn for itself.

[eddie]

Everything you're saying is right and I agree, which is why I have no religion - but you can't simply say "no religious schools allowed"
What about Sunday schools?
What about after school abrahamic teachings? My ex-neighbours son went to an ordinary school, then went to classes (I know this becasue he'd wait in my house sometimes whilst his mother was returning from work late and I'd ask him all about it).

So what would you do? Ban all religious schools, all religious after-school classes, all Sunday schools within churches......what about banning ALL churches, synagogues and temples - becasue they reach readings and lessons there, people are preached to.

Then, after that, is it books too?

Then after we are done with religion how about gay clubs? Becasue there are plenty of people, millions, around the world who disagree with it and think men "might be learning to be gay' via these clubs. It won't be long before a boy comes out and his parents take the club to task and say it was the club's influence....

The after than, what about the Internet? That is the biggest information centre and teacher of the world. It's free too.
Shall we ban that becasue children are getting radicalised and getting gay from that?

You can't simply say: NO RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS ALLOWED.

It opens up a whole can of banning worms.

[eddie]

Oh and Les? Your view of religion is tainted with negativity and your demanding of no religious schools is really very right wing! You're in agreement with alla and Tommy on this....

I wasn't born into religion and no one taught me about God - I simply found him on my own as most people do actually.

My children have never been taught about God, they've  both come to me (same kind of age about 4) and asked me about it.  I asked where they're heard that word from and they both said they didn't know they just knew it.
I don't live in a "religious area" nor is anyone at all, in my family, religious.

So perhaps people find God alone. And know what? That's okay. Believing in God isn't a poison.

[Eilzel]

You can't go to a gay club until your 18, so your point is moot. And again as you well know they are not the same, being is not an ideology that can be taught, as you know.

And no, we shouldn't ban religious buildings, because people have a choice. Its brainwashing I'm against.

Do you think its ok that children are taught that genital mutilation is ok and the being gay is wrong?

[eddie]

No les, I don't think that's right - there's no need to ask me that is there? But do you think that the majority of religious schools are that evil? That the teachers are evil?
Isn't it possible that due to your dislike of religion and that you're gay, you view these schools a little more harshly?
Where's your optimistic nature in this issue Les?

[Eilzel]

Of course because I'm gay I view them more harshly. There are schools, too many, that happily teach that being gay is a sin- not because they are evil, but because their religious values oblige them to.

That is wrong. Allowing faith schools means allowing that to continue. I don't want it to and don't think it.

What exactly can a faith school provide a normal school cannot? If the answer is nothing, then what is the point in them?

And you're twisting my words from the other thread here- this is a very specific issue, the other thread is broad as can be.

[nicko]

Lets just ban Islamic Schools, that's where all the hate towards any one who is not Muslim comes from!

[Eilzel]

I think we should nicko, they are the worst, but there a few other faith schools that also have smaller problems. And really why have them anyway? They only promote seperation between communities- that is backwards in modern society.

[HoratioTarr]

If you think religious groups are going to let anyone 'alter' their books you are not paying attention to how religions work, especially Islam. Are you suggesting they edit the word of god?

You would have better chances closing the schools.

Religious schools would be ok of they did not teach such wonderful things as being gay is wrong, women should be obedient to their men, apostasy is bad, nonbelievers will go to hell and whatever else.

Now I know not all teach all those things, but many will teach some of them- and WHY is that allowed?

The edication should be equally as good in non faith schools shouldn't it?

Close them down. No good reason not to.

The bible  got updated.
Lots of new Christian groups have changed their interpretations and teachings too.

So it can be done.

And Les, coming from a minority group that's been persecuted since time began, I'm surprised you'd want to "punish" people by closing down schools that wish to teach religion

So you're all for the free speech that you like, then?

The Bible updated? Edited like a story book? Yep, that about sums up the Bible. OK, what can we interpret from it today? Let's change the meaning of that, because at the moment it's not politically correct to do so. Does this part still apply? Perhaps not, as everyone jerks off and science has proven it doesn't make you blind?

What bollocks!

The very fact that a tome written by 'God' can be edited, twisted, changed, updated, etc, just makes a mockery of the whole concept of it.

The Bible has been used as a weapon since it first got written.

[Fuzzy Zack]

You can't go to a gay club until your 18, so your point is moot. And again as you well know they are not the same, being is not an ideology that can be taught, as you know.

And no, we shouldn't ban religious buildings, because people have a choice. Its brainwashing I'm against.

Do you think its ok that children are taught that genital mutilation is ok and the being gay is wrong?

So you want to substitute one form of brainwashing with another.

How pathetic and hypocrital.

[Eilzel]

What brainwashing am I advocating exactly, Zack?

[eddie]

I am not advocating religious schools, tbh, I don't care a sit doenst affect me but I don't wish to stop people from going if that's what they want.

One last thing, do you think this "brainwashing" will stop, simply because faith schools cease to exist?

Most brainwashing of children is done at home and via TV.

And les? If you think faith schools brainwash kids go and watch "don't hug me I'm scared" on YouTube all six of the cartoons if you can.
That will tell you all you need to know about bloody brainwashing children!

[Eilzel]

I know there are other forms of brainwashing- so let's not have more lol

It doesn't personally affect me either, but in the single matter of sexual orientation I empathise with every gay person in the world- and knowing there are gay children out there forced to listen to their TEACHERS telling them being gay is wrong actually genuinely upsets and annoys me tbh.

[Fuzzy Zack]

What brainwashing am I advocating exactly, Zack?

You want to groom children to think homosexuality is okay.

No different to teaching children to think homosexuality is not okay.

You're being a hypocrite.

[Raggamuffin]

There's no point in teaching anyone that homosexuality is not OK, or that it's OK. You can only teach them that they can't discriminate/beat up/abuse anyone for being gay.

[Fuzzy Zack]

There's no point in teaching anyone that homosexuality is not OK, or that it's OK. You can only teach them that they can't discriminate/beat up/abuse anyone for being gay.

Being gay and doing gay are 2 different things.

Being gay is not like being black or any other race.

You can be black but there's no such thing as "doing black".

[Eilzel]

Wrong Zack. Some kids ARE gay, nothing you say will change that. And they have every right not be told their feelings are wrong. But then, you were brainwashed to think otherwise, really proving my point

[Fuzzy Zack]

Wrong Zack. Some kids ARE gay, nothing you say will change that. And they have every right not be told their feelings are wrong. But then, you were brainwashed to think otherwise, really proving my point

I know which kids are black or white, from the day they are born.

How do I tell which kid is gay?

[Eilzel]

You don't know, same as you don't know who is left handed until you give them a pen. That doesn't mean it isn't a fact.

[Syl]

Why does it matter which kid is gay?
Do they have to be treated differently or something?

[Fuzzy Zack]

You don't know, same as you don't know who is left handed until you give them a pen. That doesn't mean it isn't a fact.

Doesn't have to be a pen. Parents can tell if their child is left handed well before holding a pen.

So you're suggesting KIDS should hold a cock in school to see if they like it?

[Eilzel]

Erm, no. Think you are a little off here, Zack.

Simple:

Some kids will grown up and realise they are gay- fact.

Those children should NOT be told their feelings are wrong, bad or sinful. They are not.

It is wrong to tell kids they shouldn't act on gay feelings.

Making sure children are aware the gay people exist and that their relationships are as acceptible as heterosexual ones is not brainwashing.

[Syl]

Erm, no. Think you are a little off here, Zack.

Simple:

Some kids will grown up and realise they are gay- fact.

Those children should NOT be told their feelings are wrong, bad or sinful. They are not.

It is wrong to tell kids they shouldn't act on gay feelings.

Making sure children are aware the gay people exist and that their relationships are as acceptible as heterosexual ones is not brainwashing.

Have a even if it is for pointing out the obvious.

[JulesV]

I know there are other forms of brainwashing- so let's not have more lol

It doesn't personally affect me either, but in the single matter of sexual orientation I empathise with every gay person in the world- and knowing there are gay children out there forced to listen to their TEACHERS telling them being gay is wrong actually genuinely upsets and annoys me tbh.

I'm sure all mainstream schools now have a confidential counselling service for children who are bullied or abused or have any anxieties about their sexuality. Dunno about religious schools though.

[Raggamuffin]

Erm, no. Think you are a little off here, Zack.

Simple:

Some kids will grown up and realise they are gay- fact.

Those children should NOT be told their feelings are wrong, bad or sinful. They are not.

It is wrong to tell kids they shouldn't act on gay feelings.

Making sure children are aware the gay people exist and that their relationships are as acceptible as heterosexual ones is not brainwashing.

You can't make sure that everyone agrees that gay relationships are acceptable though. You can only tell them about the law and advise them that it's not very nice to pick on someone because they're gay.

[Eilzel]

Syl, thanks, shouldn't be necessary should it lol

Jules, I hope they do, but shouldn't be required. The last person children should get negative views from is their teacher.

Raggs, I'm not trying to get everyone to agree to it. I'm asking that schools not be allowed to tell people being gay or engaging in gay relationships is wrong.

['Wolfie]

Banning religious schools because you think religion is bad isn't fair.
And that's all it is; you dislike religion so you want it banned.

That's for Didge and Les

Banning religious schools is to bring about fair teaching in schools as its already a well established fact they are biased and are allowed to be biased on their entry systems, let alone how they will teach a bias based on their faith.
Religion is a subject and is an ideology.

Would you back a school run by the ideology racism?

So why would you back schools that teach prejudice and discrimination in th aspcts of their religious doctrines?

BAN religion from schools this year, and within a decade you could just as easily be back discussing banning the influences of dogmatic atheism or extremist politics/fascism, Didge...

IT COULD BECOME an eternal cycle of "Ban this.."/"Ban that !" arguments, once you opened that can of worms..

[Guest]

Banning religious schools is to bring about fair teaching in schools as its already a well established fact they are biased and are allowed to be biased on their entry systems, let alone how they will teach a bias based on their faith.
Religion is a subject and is an ideology.

Would you back a school run by the ideology racism?

So why would you back schools that teach prejudice and discrimination in th aspcts of their religious doctrines?

BAN religion from schools this year, and within a decade you could just as easily be back discussing banning the influences of dogmatic atheism or extremist politics/fascism,  Didge...

IT COULD BECOME an eternal cycle of "Ban this.."/"Ban that !" arguments,  once you opened that can of worms..

Absurd reasoning

Athiesm is just no belief, and would be part of religious education, of which nobody has statd to deny.
As of yet I have seen no athiest organisation running a school and if there was I would be against also, as it has to be a neutral school.
So there is no endless cycle, this is very straight forward.

All schools are run neutrally based not by any religious of political belief system etc.

[Guest]

What brainwashing am I advocating exactly, Zack?

You want to groom children to think homosexuality is okay.

No different to teaching children to think homosexuality is not okay.

You're being a hypocrite.

Why is two consenting adults not okay

Are you claiming there is something wrong with mutual love?

Its teaching to treat others equally under the law and does not actually teach to except anything, as by your answer alone, you do not accept homosexuality.

So you have the choice to decide do you not?

[Guest]

There's no point in teaching anyone that homosexuality is not OK, or that it's OK. You can only teach them that they can't discriminate/beat up/abuse anyone for being gay.

Being gay and doing gay are 2 different things.  

Being gay is not like being black or any other race.

You can be black but there's no such thing as "doing black".

Doing gay?

So what you are going off is acts are you not?

Kissing, touching, oral sex, anal sex?

Which hetrosexuals also do.

In fact the same percentage of homosexuals and hstrosexuals around 35% engage in anal sex

So you are not arguiing on actual homosexuality, bcause these acts are not sexuality specific

You are thus discriminating based on the sexuality of a person who commits a sexual act, even though hetrosexuals commit the same exact acts.

[HoratioTarr]

You know there are homosexuals who love each other. It's not all about sex. Aren't they allowed to do that?

[Syl]

Why should they have to love each other?

[Guest]

You know there are homosexuals who love each other.   It's not all about sex.   Aren't they allowed to do that?  

What did you miss in my previous post on mutual love?

Zack is arguing off acts commited by homosexuals

[veya_victaous]

Banning religious schools is to bring about fair teaching in schools as its already a well established fact they are biased and are allowed to be biased on their entry systems, let alone how they will teach a bias based on their faith.
Religion is a subject and is an ideology.

Would you back a school run by the ideology racism?

So why would you back schools that teach prejudice and discrimination in th aspcts of their religious doctrines?

BAN religion from schools this year, and within a decade you could just as easily be back discussing banning the influences of dogmatic atheism or extremist politics/fascism,  Didge...

IT COULD BECOME an eternal cycle of "Ban this.."/"Ban that !" arguments,  once you opened that can of worms..

Absurd reasoning

Athiesm is just no belief, and would be part of religious education, of which nobody has statd to deny.
As of yet I have seen no athiest organisation running a school and if there was I would be against also, as it has to be a neutral school.
So there is no endless cycle, this is very straight forward.

All schools are run neutrally based not by any religious of political belief system etc.

Atheism is a belief, Stop crouching atheism purely in Abrahamistic terms.
If religion was dead then atheism becomes a belief in existence without purpose, versus existence with a purpose

And it too should be 'banned'
in favor of teaching how to learn, not what has been learned so far.

[Sponsored content]