The abuse of our NHS by foreigners continues...

Health tourists are jumping the queue ahead of NHS patients for life-changing cataract operations, an investigation has revealed.

At least 300 foreign patients flying in from countries including Nigeria and Zimbabwe have been offered surgery before British taxpayers because their condition is deemed a priority.

The treatment costs the NHS up to £2,500 a time including translation costs but many patients return home and never pay it back.

Yet they are being fast-tracked by doctors as their condition is deemed very complex and urgent, leading to lengthy delays for British patients.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3683605/Health-tourists-jump-NHS-queue-Foreign-patients-given-eye-surgery-Britons-wait-months.html

Tommy Monk wrote:

Health tourists are jumping the queue ahead of NHS patients for life-changing cataract operations, an investigation has revealed.

At least 300 foreign patients flying in from countries including Nigeria and Zimbabwe have been offered surgery before British taxpayers because their condition is deemed a priority.

The treatment costs the NHS up to £2,500 a time including translation costs but many patients return home and never pay it back.

Yet they are being fast-tracked by doctors as their condition is deemed very complex and urgent, leading to lengthy delays for British patients.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3683605/Health-tourists-jump-NHS-queue-Foreign-patients-given-eye-surgery-Britons-wait-months.html

Have you ever doubted that fact TM?
I havn't, the bigger the lie the further you progress up the queue whoever you are and the immigrants know that as well as I know how to count to five and go to sleep before the surgeon explores my innards

How do we know it's a fact?  Tommy says...

Tommy Monk wrote:At least 300 foreign patients flying in from countries including Nigeria and Zimbabwe have been offered surgery before British taxpayers because their condition is deemed a priority.

Yet that statement is totally unsubstantiated.  What data were used to support that claim?  Speculation?

Frankly, it's another one of tommy's baseless claims made to get attention...unless he has something it's just a collection of words.  And that's not an invitation to dump a load of c&p bullshit on the threads.  You make a claim, you articulate it.

He has provided a link Quill.

eddie wrote:He has provided a link Quill.

Links aren't needed sometimes as the majority of us have experienced waiting in never ending queues behind ethnic minorities .
Denial just to appear to be understanding and not biased or racially discriminate is exactly that in my opinion.
It's a denial, no more and no less!

eddie wrote:He has provided a link Quill.

And the link tells us...

DM wrote:At least 300 foreign patients flying in from countries including Nigeria and Zimbabwe have been offered surgery before British taxpayers because their condition is deemed a priority.

So it's an offer. No one is grabbing at free services or abusing anything. What is more, one thing I learned in law school is an offer is not an acceptance. There are no data on delivery.

Now take a look at the title of this thread. Notice anything? Abuse? Ridiculous.

Yea, and I will take a bet a lot of those 300 are children who would go blind otherwise, and the NHS does over HALF A MILLION cataract ops a years.  FGS!

sassy wrote:Yea, and I will take a bet a lot of those 300 are children who would go blind otherwise, and the NHS does over HALF A MILLION cataract ops a years.  FGS!

Our health organizations in the US do a lot of this work, both NGO's and governmental agencies.  To so twist this story into a accusation of foreign larceny, is a slap in the face of the kindheartedness that motivates it.

But kindness is not a characteristic that a conservative would recognize.  They hate human beings other than themselves.

It's a national health service... not an international one...


Surely they have doctors in their own countries...


Our NHS is for our people...


Why should our people be denied and forced to wait to treat foreigners!?




Here's another national newspaper running the story...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/11/health-tourists-jump-queue-for-cataract-operations-on-nhs-as-bri/

Tommy Monk wrote:It's a national health service... not an international one...

Surely they have doctors in their own countries...

Our NHS is for our people...

Why should our people be denied and forced to wait to treat foreigners!?

Here's another national newspaper running the story...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/11/health-tourists-jump-queue-for-cataract-operations-on-nhs-as-bri/

Disgustingly selfish.

Original Quill wrote:

sassy wrote:Yea, and I will take a bet a lot of those 300 are children who would go blind otherwise, and the NHS does over HALF A MILLION cataract ops a years.  FGS!

Our health organizations in the US do a lot of this work, both NGO's and governmental agencies.  To so twist this story into a accusation of foreign larceny, is a slap in the face of the kindheartedness that motivates it.

But kindness is not a characteristic that a conservative would recognize.  They hate human beings other than themselves.

Exactly.   Our doctors go and volunteer in other countries, do cataract ops under the most appalling conditions.   When they find a case that they can't do there, very occasionally, especially if it's a child, they bring them back here.  That anyone could begrudge that is beyond me.   And trust the Mail to make a thing of it, they have no morals at all.

I have always said,
LOOK AFTER OUR OWN FIRST.

Not at all...


It is there for all British people... regardless of whether they pay in or not...


What is selfish is those foreigners who come over here to try to use it for their own personal gain, purely to try to con our system for free treatment, and at the expense of the british people...


They cost us a billion pounds a year in treating them and then they disappear without paying!!!


While other British people who have paid in all their lives are denied treatments or drugs or operations because of lack of funds!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Not at all...


It is there for all British people... regardless of whether they pay in or not...


What is selfish is those foreigners who come over here to try to use it for their own personal gain, purely to try to con our system for free treatment, and at the expense of the british people...


They cost us a billion pounds a year in treating them and then they disappear without paying!!!


While other British people who have paid in all their lives are denied treatments or drugs or operations because of lack of funds!!!

There is a advert playing frequently now on our TV's asking us to donate 50p or something like that to save some kids sight but having done that before I know how many letters you then get clogging up your letter box asking you to donate to everything under the sun.
It never stops once you have given out your name and address to one charity or good cause

Tommy Monk wrote:What is selfish is those foreigners who come over here to try to use it for their own personal gain, purely to try to con our system for free treatment, and at the expense of the british people...

Pay attention, tommy. This story isn't about anyone like that. These were invitees. It can't be selfish to accept an invitation.

Twisted!

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's a national health service... not an international one...

Surely they have doctors in their own countries...

Our NHS is for our people...

Why should our people be denied and forced to wait to treat foreigners!?

Here's another national newspaper running the story...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/11/health-tourists-jump-queue-for-cataract-operations-on-nhs-as-bri/

Disgustingly selfish.

Does your country treat people for free?

Maybe Quill should look at the overall costs of foreigners on our NHS...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe Quill should look at the overall costs of foreigners on our NHS...!?

Maybe that's not the point. Maybe you should read the stories you post, to get the facts straight. This was an outreach by a very charitable, benevolent British service.

Next you'll be calling the WHO a Nazi party arm.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe Quill should look at the overall costs of foreigners on our NHS...!?

Maybe that's not the point.  Maybe you should read the stories you post, to get the facts straight.  This was an outreach by a very charitable, benevolent British service.

Next you'll be calling the WHO a Nazi party arm.

Yeah, but does your country treat people for free?

To all those who want to give our wealth, NHS and our heritage away to scrounging forunuz who will not significantly benefit our island -

I tell and ask you this, "you obviously believe we we should".

If your loved one could not be given an operation because the waiting list included forunuz how would you feel if yours was so far down the queue they died".

"Have you personally suffered because your child could not get into the school of your choice"?

"Why do you think your tax money should go to forun scroungers when our own people are seen wanting"?

I believe a lot of people who think this way are career scroungers themselves and do not know any different.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe Quill should look at the overall costs of foreigners on our NHS...!?

Maybe that's not the point.  Maybe you should read the stories you post, to get the facts straight.  This was an outreach by a very charitable, benevolent British service.

Next you'll be calling the WHO a Nazi party arm.

And they disappeared without paying... and British people were denied their places for operations to make room for the foreigners...

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maybe that's not the point.  Maybe you should read the stories you post, to get the facts straight.  This was an outreach by a very charitable, benevolent British service.

Next you'll be calling the WHO a Nazi party arm.

Yeah, but does your country treat people for free?

We're not talking about my country. But to answer you, yes my country often outreaches to other, poorer nations, offering health care.

But not to evade your point, it is absolutely immoral that our country does not have completely paid-for, socialized healthcare. We have completely paid for, socialized military care—most of the time wasted on foreign adventures, not defense (we haven't had our borders touched by an enemy since WWII). That's for the enemy without.

Why can't we have the equivalent for the enemy within: illness and disease? The military and healthcare are the two most important purposes of any governments in my mind. Why do we spend so much on seeking revenge, and nothing on helping the children stay alive and healthy?

Certainly, if we spent a little less on toys for admirals and generals, we could afford a NHS of our own.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maybe that's not the point.  Maybe you should read the stories you post, to get the facts straight.  This was an outreach by a very charitable, benevolent British service.

Next you'll be calling the WHO a Nazi party arm.

And they disappeared without paying... and British people were denied their places for operations to make room for the foreigners...

They didn't "disappear without paying." Why do you fabricate such mendacity? It was an offer. We don't even know who accepted.

C

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's a national health service... not an international one...

Surely they have doctors in their own countries...

Our NHS is for our people...

Why should our people be denied and forced to wait to treat foreigners!?

Here's another national newspaper running the story...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/11/health-tourists-jump-queue-for-cataract-operations-on-nhs-as-bri/

Disgustingly selfish.

Behave yourself!
You come from a country where only those that can pay get healthcare. They don't look after their own never mind foreigners!

Health tourists are jumping the queue ahead of NHS patients for life-changing cataract operations, an investigation has revealed.

At least 300 foreign patients flying in from countries including Nigeria and Zimbabwe have been offered surgery before British taxpayers because their condition is deemed a priority.

The treatment costs the NHS up to £2,500 a time including translation costs but many patients return home and never pay it back.

Yet they are being fast-tracked by doctors as their condition is deemed very complex and urgent, leading to lengthy delays for British patients.

Cataract surgery is the most common treatment on the NHS and 300,000 operations are performed a year, mostly on the elderly.

Yet it is being heavily rationed due to financial pressures. Figures have shown that at least half of health trusts currently ration cataract surgery and some patients have been told their vision is 'too good' even though they cannot read or write.

Some areas including parts of Greater Manchester have average waiting times of 222 days – nearly eight months – while others will now only do one eye at a time.

Miffs2 wrote:C

Original Quill wrote:

Disgustingly selfish.

Behave yourself!
You come from a country where only those that can pay get healthcare. They don't look after their own never mind foreigners!

Have a ,,,the do as I say not as I do mentality rears it's ugly head again.

Miffs2 wrote:C

Original Quill wrote:

Disgustingly selfish.

Behave yourself!
You come from a country where only those that can pay get healthcare. They don't look after their own never mind foreigners!

You are absolutely right. It is morally reprehensible for this country to spend so much on killing babies in foreign lands, and spend absolutely nothing to help the living at home stay healthy.

God willing, with the election landslide of Democrats this November, we will have the Congress that will pass NHS legislation for this country. If we cut back on military spending, it's already paid for.

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Yeah, but does your country treat people for free?

We're not talking about my country.  But to answer you, yes my country often outreaches to other, poorer nations, offering health care.

But not to evade your point, it is absolutely immoral that our country does not have completely paid-for, socialized healthcare.  We have completely paid for, socialized military care—most of the time wasted on foreign adventures, not defense (we haven't had our borders touched by an enemy since WWII).  That's for the enemy without.  

Why can't we have the equivalent for the enemy within: illness and disease?  The military and healthcare are the two most important purposes of any governments in my mind.  Why do we spend so much on seeking revenge, and nothing on helping the children stay alive and healthy?

Certainly, if we spent a little less on toys for admirals and generals, we could afford a NHS of our own.

Reaches out to poor foreigners visiting your country for free operations?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

We're not talking about my country.  But to answer you, yes my country often outreaches to other, poorer nations, offering health care.

But not to evade your point, it is absolutely immoral that our country does not have completely paid-for, socialized healthcare.  We have completely paid for, socialized military care—most of the time wasted on foreign adventures, not defense (we haven't had our borders touched by an enemy since WWII).  That's for the enemy without.  

Why can't we have the equivalent for the enemy within: illness and disease?  The military and healthcare are the two most important purposes of any governments in my mind.  Why do we spend so much on seeking revenge, and nothing on helping the children stay alive and healthy?

Certainly, if we spent a little less on toys for admirals and generals, we could afford a NHS of our own.

Reaches out to poor foreigners visiting your country for free operations?  

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations. My daughter is among a group of physicians participating. She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Reaches out to poor foreigners visiting your country for free operations?  

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

So you have a system that provides treatment for foreigners funded by the US taxpayer... but no system providing treatment for the US people...!?


And you think this is a good thing for American people...!?

Syl wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:C

Behave yourself!
You come from a country where only those that can pay get healthcare. They don't look after their own never mind foreigners!

Have a ,,,the do as I say not as I do mentality rears it's ugly head again.

Thanks Syl 

G

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

So you have a system that provides treatment for foreigners funded by the US taxpayer... but no system providing treatment for the US people...!?


And you think this is a good thing for American people...!?

He is talking about people being brought to the US for treatment, you can't just bowl up to a hospital and be treated for free like they do over here.

Go to their countries and see what you get free, malaria, beriberi, aids, food poisoning and the gunkers.

Miffs2 wrote:G

Tommy Monk wrote:



So you have a system that provides treatment for foreigners funded by the US taxpayer... but no system providing treatment for the US people...!?


And you think this is a good thing for American people...!?

He is talking about people being brought to the US for treatment, you can't just bowl up to a hospital and be treated for free like they do over here.

I'm sure all the American people over there who can't get treatment are over the moon that foreigners are being shipped in for treatment and being paid for by the US taxpayer...



How 'unselfish' of those lovely American people...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

So you have a system that provides treatment for foreigners funded by the US taxpayer... but no system providing treatment for the US people...!?

And you think this is a good thing for American people...!?

I have already stated my position on that:

Original Quill wrote:...it is absolutely immoral that our country does not have completely paid-for, socialized healthcare. We have completely paid for, socialized military care—most of the time wasted on foreign adventures, not defense (we haven't had our borders touched by an enemy since WWII). That's for the enemy without.

Why can't we have the equivalent for the enemy within: illness and disease? The military and healthcare are the two most important purposes of any governments in my mind. Why do we spend so much on seeking revenge, and nothing on helping the children stay alive and healthy?

Certainly, if we spent a little less on toys for admirals and generals, we could afford a NHS of our own.

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Reaches out to poor foreigners visiting your country for free operations?  

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

I Googled The Sloan Kettering Clinic and it appears you require insurance. So, how exactly does someone visiting the USA for the sole purpose of say, having a cataract operation get free treatment?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

I Googled The Sloan Kettering Clinic and it appears you require insurance.   So, how exactly does someone visiting the USA for the sole purpose of say, having a cataract operation get free treatment?

In every case? I doubt it.

Some of these hospitals and organizations are private. I know Stanford University, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, Harvard and Duke would require insurance under ordinary circumstances. But they are approachable and often recruited into efforts just such as the one in question.

I think you approached the issue as if you were a walk-in. The circumstances are different if you are with a program such as the one in the OP.

Why are US citizens denied treatment without insurance... but foreigners are shipped in for treatment paid for by US citizens...?

Tommy Monk wrote:Why are US citizens denied treatment without insurance... but foreigners are shipped in for treatment paid for by US citizens...?

Usually, its because it is part of a program. A lot of times it is in conjunction with a teaching program at a university.

My father, a cardiologist and Chief of Staff for the hospital at Berkeley, started a clinic for street people. Indigents from miles around came to this facility. It even had a pre-natal care clinic separate from the main clinic.

Yeah... sure...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Yes, a lot of them are brought over to America for their operations.  My daughter is among a group of physicians participating.  She is an anesthesiologist and participates in a team.

Often it is done by one of the strong university medical programs: Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF, Duke University...or the Mayo Clinic, the Sloan Kettering Clinic...often paid for by the US government, even if performed in one of the preeminent universities.

So you have a system that provides treatment for foreigners funded by the US taxpayer... but no system providing treatment for the US people...!?
Well, you've gone off your trolley on this point but I do have some facts and a link to help bring you back to front & center.  Yes, there are several organizations of physicians and surgeons that travel into foreign countries and preform: dental work/fistula/other female repair issues/male & female well check up/cleft platelets/inoculations of many different types/etc., etc., etc., and often those organizations will find specific cases that can't be operated on in those rural/3rd world countries to do the very nature of the locations and limited resources so a staging program is organized with a specific hospital back in the states and the hospital donates a great portion of the funds and the surgery staff as well as the attending nurses donate their time and then there will be fund raising events not only to promote the hospital but the organization that brought the child/baby back into America for treatment. Dr's Without Borders is a large one and I've known their group since 1988.  http://www.givewell.org/international/health/surgery 
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/ 
And you think this is a good thing for American people...!?  Nope, not what Quill stated twice that I've read.

For people on the that are not on the ACA or have limited access to Medicaid/Medicare and just have financial burdens that they can't afford certain medical procedures we have had the Hill-Burton Act implemented long before we ever had anything like our ACA.  Hill-Burton funds special grants for hospitals around America {research/new medical equipment/replacement equipment/additional wings for chemo/dialysis for rural areas etc.,} and the trade of for that specific hospital to receive those Hill-Burton grant funds is the commitment to offer 'FREE EMERGENCY' care for anyone that enters into their facility - this must be posted by all egress at that facility - information in a brochure at the local SRS office and the commitment is a minimum of 4 years; that was depending upon the total grant funds so that might have changed and increased some since my days of being involved with this foundation.

Hill-Burton Free and Reduced-Cost Health Care

www.hrsa.gov › … › Get Affordable Health Care › Hill-Burton Program
Information on the Hill Burton free and reduced-cost healthcare programs at hospitals and nursing homes.

So even with the ACA, and the SCOTUS allowing those states {like mine} to 'WAVER' out of the ACA if they wanted to ...there is at least 2 hospitals {usually teaching hospitals {like KU medical center & Children's Mercy in KCMO} that have the Hill-Burton Act funding and some county facilities like my rural county hospital - has been funded by the Hill-Burton act.

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah... sure...

At least I got you off of using "waffle" every time you are stuck for an answer.

You are supporting a loser, tommy. That is because you misconstrued a healthcare program, where the NHS recruited foreigners, not that the foreigners were imposing. When you start twisting narratives like that, people can fook with your head.

The program in the OP was a righteous one. You thought you could tweak its ears and turn it into something it wasn't. Better luck next time.

So 4everatwit... that is a yes then...!?


And Quill... have you still not looked into the costs to NHS every year from health tourism...!?


I'm sure others have...

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I Googled The Sloan Kettering Clinic and it appears you require insurance.   So, how exactly does someone visiting the USA for the sole purpose of say, having a cataract operation get free treatment?

In every case?  I doubt it.

Some of these hospitals and organizations are private.  I know Stanford University, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, Harvard and Duke would require insurance under ordinary circumstances.  But they are approachable and often recruited into efforts just such as the one in question.

I think you approached the issue as if you were a walk-in.  The circumstances are different if you are with a program such as the one in the OP.

Well of course. But then why should someone be able to come to the UK and expect free treatment over the people who've spent their whole lives paying into the NHS?

Tommy Monk wrote:So 4everatwat... that is a yes then...!?
And Quill... have you still not looked into the costs to NHS every year from health tourism...!?
I'm sure others have...

You can't be bothered to
A.) read what I tried to help you with
B.) just insulted me yet again - YOU STUPID FUCK-WIT
c.) you prove yet again, you don't deserve adult discussion and I don't care how many of your 'hyena pack' you whine and cry too. 
Back on ignore 

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

In every case?  I doubt it.

Some of these hospitals and organizations are private.  I know Stanford University, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, Harvard and Duke would require insurance under ordinary circumstances.  But they are approachable and often recruited into efforts just such as the one in question.

I think you approached the issue as if you were a walk-in.  The circumstances are different if you are with a program such as the one in the OP.

Well of course.   But then why should someone be able to come to the UK and expect free treatment over the people who've spent their whole lives paying into the NHS?

I don't think it was a blind "expectation". It sounds like it was a program supported by the NHS, for people in a foreign, perhaps a 3d-world nation. It was a charitable effort. It was out of the mainstream of local healthcare, so (perhaps for travel or visa constraints) it was put on a fast-track.

You are comparing apples to oranges when you liken this kind of program to normal heath services.

Tommy, I don't give out reds.  But I do give out greens for those who give appropriate responses to people who are rude.

Calling people 'twats' in the middle of a well-mannered discussion, is just showing you are a loser.

Oh yes, and my green gets counted; the red does not detract.

All taxpayers money... taxpayers who are not getting treatment.. while foreigners are...

Tommy Monk wrote:All taxpayers money... taxpayers who are not getting treatment.. while foreigners are...

Different programs have different needs. Decisions were made.

With taxpayers money... paid to treat shipped in foreigners while home citizens get fuk all!!!