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10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by eddie Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:51 pm
I've put this here for fun, if nothing else, they're interesting.
10 Shocking Conspiracy Theories Which Were Actually True
A lot of theories are written off as conspiracy by the public because they are just too wild to believe, or if they were to be true, they are too shameful and shocking to comprehend. Sometimes these theories spread like wildfire because they sound so crazy, but a recent study by political scientists Eric Oliver and Thomas Wood showed that 50% of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Though they may seem unreal, some of these conspiracy theories end up being true, and test the limits of possibility. Here are ten of those theories that, as it turns out, weren’t just a figment of someone’s imagination.
The CIA Pays Off A Witness
In 1990, a 15-year-old Kuwait girl, Nayirah al-Sabah, testified on behalf of the US government that she had personally witnessed Iraqi soldiers do horrible things to infants in Kuwait. Her testimony helped convince the American public that military force against Iraq was justified. The CIA was so determined for this to work they even paid Sabah to take acting classes in preparation for her lies. So successful was her testimony that in 1991 the US launched “Operation Desert Storm” against Iraq. By the next year, a clever journalist had a theory about this testimony. He uncovered the truth and outed the CIA for paying witnesses, showing that he was correct all along.
Watergate
When Republican officials were first accused of spying on the Democratic National Headquarters in 1972, the public was reluctant to believe it could be true. As it turns out, it was true. In 1974 audio recordings were discovered that proved President Nixon knew what was going on. And what exactly was going on? Well, Republican officials decided to wire tap the Democratic National Headquarters and then spy from the nearby Watergate Hotel. This scandal rocked the world, as it resulted in President Nixon becoming the first president in US history to step down from office.
The CIA Smuggling Cocaine
When Pulitzer Prize Award winning journalist, Gary Webb published his investigative series Dark Alliance in August 1996, it sparked some very important conversations. His report alleged the CIA was involved with street gangs and their drug deals in order to profit off of them. Webb’s study claimed that the CIA smuggled cocaine to the CIA-backed Contra so they could in turn profit from their sales. When CIA inspector general Frederick Hitz finally admitted that the CIA was aware that Contra was dealing cocaine, the 1998 Monica Lewinsky scandal largely overshadowed it. In 2004, Gary Webb was found shot in the head twice, and police ruled it a suicide.
Tuskegee Syphillis Study
In 1997, then-President Bill Clinton apologized to the victims of the horrific Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Due to this study, 600 rural African American men and their families were devastated by syphilis, beginning in 1932. The head of the Public Health Service (PHS) wanted to see how syphilis affected African American men, as opposed to Caucasian men. When these men tested positive for syphilis, the PHS withheld this information from them and withheld treatment for the men as well. As a result, hundreds of people lost their lives due to syphilis. It wasn’t until 250 men enlisted in WWII and underwent tests that they were told they had syphilis. Still, the U.S. PHS denied them treatment. Until Clinton spoke about this study, it was thought to be a conspiracy theory by many as it was so unbelievably depraved.
Gukf of Tonkin incident
President Lyndon Johnson told the public that Vietnamese forces attacked US ships on August 4th, 1964, and the American public was immediately outraged by what is known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The public’s reaction escalated the Vietnam War, and Congress passed The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that allowed US forces to strike against North Vietnam. When the Vietnam War ended in 1973, more than three million people had lost their lives. In 2005, the NSA released previously classified documents that revealed, to everyone’s horror, that Johnson had fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident in order to justify attacking North Vietnam.
Operation Northwoods
Operation Northwoods was drafted in the early 1960’s by the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US Military to wreak havoc on the American public, as well as Cuban refugees, and framing Cubans for it. These plans, which included violent acts of terrorism, were thought up in order to gain the public’s support in waging a war against Cuba. Luckily, President John F. Kennedy rejected Operation Northwoods in 1962. For years, there were rumours about the existence of Operation Northwoods, but it was generally disregarded as a conspiracy theory. Then, in 1997, the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board declassified over 1500 pages of documents. In these documents were the record of Operation Northwoods, and proof that it wasn’t a conspiracy theory after all.
Operation Paperclip
Following VE Day in 1945, President Truman authorized what is known as Operation Paperclip. This operation would recruit German scientists from Nazi Germany to the United States to work. One condition of this operation, as declared by Truman, was that those who had been members of the Nazi Party would not be allowed into the United States. However, American Special Forces were so excited by the prospect of having these talented scientists at their disposal, that they cleared their records. Their Nazi involvement was removed from their work history, unbeknownst to anyone else, and members of the Nazi Party were brought to America.
Operation Fast and Furious
When the Obama administration smuggled weapons to Mexican drug dealers in order to then trace them back to criminals and bust drug gangs in 2011, it became known as Operation Fast and Furious. Later that year, CBS News found documentation that proved ATF agents discussing how these guns were passed to Mexican gun dealers based in the U.S. The idea behind doing this was when these guns were used to commit crimes, it would justify passing stricter gun laws in America.
Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination
Minister and social activist Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated on April 4th, 1968 on the balcony of his hotel in Memphis, Tennessee. Dr. King is highly regarded for his relentless efforts to bring about equality and harmony. The name “James Earl Ray” is familiar to many for being the one to actually shoot Dr. King, but what many people don’t know is the government played a critical role in his assassination, as well. On December 8th, 1999 the King family filed a civil suit against the US government, claiming that King’s murder was the result of assassination. A 12-member jury unanimously agreed that King’s death was, in fact, a result of the US government’s and the mafia’s doing, and Ray was simply a hired assassin.
Other US government assassinations
After the Watergate Scandal, distrust of the US government was at an all-time high. The US Senate Select Committee launched an investigation into both the CIA and the FBI in search of illicit activities, and hopefully to regain America’s trust. To their horror, the Committee discovered that the assassinations of Allende in Chile and Mossadegh in Iran had been a result of those as mentioned above feared illicit activities.
The Committee also discovered evidence of the CIA and FBI assassinating other South and Central American leaders, often doing so in an undetectable manner. The investigation revealed that the CIA used several methods of assassination including car accidents, cancer, suicide, boating/skiing accidents, heart attacks, and being shot. Needless to say, this did not ease the American public’s fears about government activities.
10 Shocking Conspiracy Theories Which Were Actually True
A lot of theories are written off as conspiracy by the public because they are just too wild to believe, or if they were to be true, they are too shameful and shocking to comprehend. Sometimes these theories spread like wildfire because they sound so crazy, but a recent study by political scientists Eric Oliver and Thomas Wood showed that 50% of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Though they may seem unreal, some of these conspiracy theories end up being true, and test the limits of possibility. Here are ten of those theories that, as it turns out, weren’t just a figment of someone’s imagination.
The CIA Pays Off A Witness
In 1990, a 15-year-old Kuwait girl, Nayirah al-Sabah, testified on behalf of the US government that she had personally witnessed Iraqi soldiers do horrible things to infants in Kuwait. Her testimony helped convince the American public that military force against Iraq was justified. The CIA was so determined for this to work they even paid Sabah to take acting classes in preparation for her lies. So successful was her testimony that in 1991 the US launched “Operation Desert Storm” against Iraq. By the next year, a clever journalist had a theory about this testimony. He uncovered the truth and outed the CIA for paying witnesses, showing that he was correct all along.
Watergate
When Republican officials were first accused of spying on the Democratic National Headquarters in 1972, the public was reluctant to believe it could be true. As it turns out, it was true. In 1974 audio recordings were discovered that proved President Nixon knew what was going on. And what exactly was going on? Well, Republican officials decided to wire tap the Democratic National Headquarters and then spy from the nearby Watergate Hotel. This scandal rocked the world, as it resulted in President Nixon becoming the first president in US history to step down from office.
The CIA Smuggling Cocaine
When Pulitzer Prize Award winning journalist, Gary Webb published his investigative series Dark Alliance in August 1996, it sparked some very important conversations. His report alleged the CIA was involved with street gangs and their drug deals in order to profit off of them. Webb’s study claimed that the CIA smuggled cocaine to the CIA-backed Contra so they could in turn profit from their sales. When CIA inspector general Frederick Hitz finally admitted that the CIA was aware that Contra was dealing cocaine, the 1998 Monica Lewinsky scandal largely overshadowed it. In 2004, Gary Webb was found shot in the head twice, and police ruled it a suicide.
Tuskegee Syphillis Study
In 1997, then-President Bill Clinton apologized to the victims of the horrific Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Due to this study, 600 rural African American men and their families were devastated by syphilis, beginning in 1932. The head of the Public Health Service (PHS) wanted to see how syphilis affected African American men, as opposed to Caucasian men. When these men tested positive for syphilis, the PHS withheld this information from them and withheld treatment for the men as well. As a result, hundreds of people lost their lives due to syphilis. It wasn’t until 250 men enlisted in WWII and underwent tests that they were told they had syphilis. Still, the U.S. PHS denied them treatment. Until Clinton spoke about this study, it was thought to be a conspiracy theory by many as it was so unbelievably depraved.
Gukf of Tonkin incident
President Lyndon Johnson told the public that Vietnamese forces attacked US ships on August 4th, 1964, and the American public was immediately outraged by what is known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The public’s reaction escalated the Vietnam War, and Congress passed The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that allowed US forces to strike against North Vietnam. When the Vietnam War ended in 1973, more than three million people had lost their lives. In 2005, the NSA released previously classified documents that revealed, to everyone’s horror, that Johnson had fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident in order to justify attacking North Vietnam.
Operation Northwoods
Operation Northwoods was drafted in the early 1960’s by the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US Military to wreak havoc on the American public, as well as Cuban refugees, and framing Cubans for it. These plans, which included violent acts of terrorism, were thought up in order to gain the public’s support in waging a war against Cuba. Luckily, President John F. Kennedy rejected Operation Northwoods in 1962. For years, there were rumours about the existence of Operation Northwoods, but it was generally disregarded as a conspiracy theory. Then, in 1997, the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board declassified over 1500 pages of documents. In these documents were the record of Operation Northwoods, and proof that it wasn’t a conspiracy theory after all.
Operation Paperclip
Following VE Day in 1945, President Truman authorized what is known as Operation Paperclip. This operation would recruit German scientists from Nazi Germany to the United States to work. One condition of this operation, as declared by Truman, was that those who had been members of the Nazi Party would not be allowed into the United States. However, American Special Forces were so excited by the prospect of having these talented scientists at their disposal, that they cleared their records. Their Nazi involvement was removed from their work history, unbeknownst to anyone else, and members of the Nazi Party were brought to America.
Operation Fast and Furious
When the Obama administration smuggled weapons to Mexican drug dealers in order to then trace them back to criminals and bust drug gangs in 2011, it became known as Operation Fast and Furious. Later that year, CBS News found documentation that proved ATF agents discussing how these guns were passed to Mexican gun dealers based in the U.S. The idea behind doing this was when these guns were used to commit crimes, it would justify passing stricter gun laws in America.
Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination
Minister and social activist Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated on April 4th, 1968 on the balcony of his hotel in Memphis, Tennessee. Dr. King is highly regarded for his relentless efforts to bring about equality and harmony. The name “James Earl Ray” is familiar to many for being the one to actually shoot Dr. King, but what many people don’t know is the government played a critical role in his assassination, as well. On December 8th, 1999 the King family filed a civil suit against the US government, claiming that King’s murder was the result of assassination. A 12-member jury unanimously agreed that King’s death was, in fact, a result of the US government’s and the mafia’s doing, and Ray was simply a hired assassin.
Other US government assassinations
After the Watergate Scandal, distrust of the US government was at an all-time high. The US Senate Select Committee launched an investigation into both the CIA and the FBI in search of illicit activities, and hopefully to regain America’s trust. To their horror, the Committee discovered that the assassinations of Allende in Chile and Mossadegh in Iran had been a result of those as mentioned above feared illicit activities.
The Committee also discovered evidence of the CIA and FBI assassinating other South and Central American leaders, often doing so in an undetectable manner. The investigation revealed that the CIA used several methods of assassination including car accidents, cancer, suicide, boating/skiing accidents, heart attacks, and being shot. Needless to say, this did not ease the American public’s fears about government activities.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by JulesV Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:24 pm
Having searched in vain for the recent 9/11 thread I have no choice but to stick this in here. (It was something about molecules but I could not find it in the science section)
PLEASE can someone show me where it is, and I will transfer this post. Thanks.
I like this retired general. Albert Stubblebine. Straight as a dye! But I'm not sure if he is correct in his hypothesis. No one can be sure.
PLEASE can someone show me where it is, and I will transfer this post. Thanks.
I like this retired general. Albert Stubblebine. Straight as a dye! But I'm not sure if he is correct in his hypothesis. No one can be sure.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by magica Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:41 pm
I love conspiracies. Many are real.
I don't believe some, they're too farfetched, but others have lots of truth around them.
I don't believe some, they're too farfetched, but others have lots of truth around them.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Original Quill Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:14 pm
The CIA Pays Off A Witness: Nayirah al-Sabah
This is not even newsworthy. As a former professor of criminal justice, I can state as a fact that all law enforcement personnel take classes in how to testify, including demeanor before a jury, how to phrase facts and and frame issues, and the legalese of permissible, relevant testimony. The cadet officer is paid. The teachers are paid.
How is this different? The CIA probably paid for the acting classes, as well. When a witness presents special circumstances, such as language and cultural differences, of course they are going to be counseled on how to testify.
This is not even newsworthy. As a former professor of criminal justice, I can state as a fact that all law enforcement personnel take classes in how to testify, including demeanor before a jury, how to phrase facts and and frame issues, and the legalese of permissible, relevant testimony. The cadet officer is paid. The teachers are paid.
How is this different? The CIA probably paid for the acting classes, as well. When a witness presents special circumstances, such as language and cultural differences, of course they are going to be counseled on how to testify.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:27 pm
Good OP Eddie!
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Original Quill Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:52 pm
The CIA Smuggling Cocaine
When Pulitzer Prize Award winning journalist, Gary Webb published his investigative series Dark Alliance in August 1996, it sparked some very important conversations. His report alleged the CIA was involved with street gangs and their drug deals in order to profit off of them. Webb’s study claimed that the CIA smuggled cocaine to the CIA-backed Contra so they could in turn profit from their sales. When CIA inspector general Frederick Hitz finally admitted that the CIA was aware that Contra was dealing cocaine, the 1998 Monica Lewinsky scandal largely overshadowed it. In 2004, Gary Webb was found shot in the head twice, and police ruled it a suicide.
Gary Webb and I have worked on common cases more than once. Though we had never met, we had numerous telephone calls back and forth. I have been a source for him and he has been a source for my cases. Gary was a reporter for the San Jose Mercury News. I was an attorney in Tucson, at the time the number one drug importation city in the US (a distinction since taken over by the Black Tuna gang on the Miami docks).
You will recall that George H. W. Bush was the director of the CIA under Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan. Bush had a right-hand man who ran this operation. Some of the facts above are wrong. The operation started back in the Reagan administration. It was a reverse-laundering of arms to the Contras, paid for by drugs.
By reverse-laundering, I mean the guns had to become dirty. The aim was to get arms to the Contras in Nicaragua, from Wight-Patterson AFB in Ohio, and make it look like the US government had nothing to do with it. So, the arms went to an airport in Mena, Arkansas, and were loaded in a C-124 and shipped off to the Ilopango air base in Costa Rica, thence to be shipped over land to Nicaragua. https://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/15/world/the-cia-role-in-salvador-air-base-described-as-the-key.html
To make it look legitimate, the CIA continued the charade of a drug transaction. The Contra paid for the arms with drugs, which were loaded onto the same C-124’s and sent back to the US. The drugs were shipped to Los Angeles and they distributed through normal street channels. Some say this started the crack-cocaine epidemic in LA.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Original Quill Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:23 pm
Operation Fast and Furious
When the Obama administration smuggled weapons to Mexican drug dealers in order to then trace them back to criminals and bust drug gangs in 2011, it became known as Operation Fast and Furious. Later that year, CBS News found documentation that proved ATF agents discussing how these guns were passed to Mexican gun dealers based in the U.S. The idea behind doing this was when these guns were used to commit crimes, it would justify passing stricter gun laws in America.
Also a case I worked on, and tipped off Gary Webb. ATF and DEA worked this one. It started way back in the Reagan administration. The ATF and DEA wanted to get a gun-savvy individual, Gary Barnes, Jr., into Mexico to complete the flow cycle.
They rigged a huge sweep that caught up Barnes' friends (with Barnes), including his father. They were tried and convicted on drug/guns charges and sent to various Federal prisons in the west.
Barnes was given work release duty at a minimum security facility near Mt. Graham, Az, and he escaped to Sinaloa, Mexico, where he helped authorities purchase guns.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Syl Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:49 pm
Diana's murder is still considered a conspiracy theory by some. 
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by magica Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:32 pm
Syl wrote:Diana's murder is still considered a conspiracy theory by some.
Yes I believe it is a big conspiracy, she was murdered
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by eddie Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:29 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
Good OP Eddie!
Thanks Tommy! It’s only been here since July 2016!
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by veya_victaous Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:44 am
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:13 am
Jules wrote:Having searched in vain for the recent 9/11 thread I have no choice but to stick this in here. (It was something about molecules but I could not find it in the science section)
PLEASE can someone show me where it is, and I will transfer this post. Thanks.
I like this retired general. Albert Stubblebine. Straight as a dye! But I'm not sure if he is correct in his hypothesis. No one can be sure.
There are many like this man, professionals in their field, who are saying pretty much the same. Why would you put your professional integrity on the line for a whim?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by eddie Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:22 pm
I do think the eyewitnesses of the firemen are to be believed. They had explosions in those towers and they’ve all said that those buildings fell due to controlled explosions.
And of course the testiments of skilled pilots of many years who say it was nigh-on impossible to hit those buildings due to the angles and the height etc
A group of pilots tried to do this on a high-tech simulator. Video of them talking about it on YouTube
And of course the testiments of skilled pilots of many years who say it was nigh-on impossible to hit those buildings due to the angles and the height etc
A group of pilots tried to do this on a high-tech simulator. Video of them talking about it on YouTube
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:25 pm
eddie wrote:I do think the eyewitnesses of the firemen are to be believed. They had explosions in those towers and they’ve all said that those buildings fell due to controlled explosions.
And of course the testiments of skilled pilots of many years who say it was nigh-on impossible to hit those buildings due to the angles and the height etc
A group of pilots tried to do this on a high-tech simulator. Video of them talking about it on YouTube
How about watching the videos of the Towers falling and explain to me why there is no sound of explosions?
So how many firemen are we talking about here?
All of them said that it fell due to controlled explosions?
Really?
Yeah check the other thread on 9/11 for the mistakes in that simulator
You see this is the problem, its one load of crap after another presented
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by eddie Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:29 pm
It’s there on YouTube. The firemen? Most people who e debated 9/11 have seen it? They are eyewitnesses which obviously, you disbelieve.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:40 pm
eddie wrote:It’s there on YouTube. The firemen? Most people who e debated 9/11 have seen it? They are eyewitnesses which obviously, you disbelieve.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
So basically, you have not heard just when the building collapses.
Like I say, can you hear any controlled explosion?
Listen to that and then listen to actual buildings brought down by controlled explosions
I find itg tiring when the so called truthers, never bother to actually be skeptical of the very claims, they present. They take them as verbatim from the sources. Never daring to actually see the counter views on this. Which the reason is, just as we see with religious beliefs. It sows the seed of doubt that they could be wrong on this and just like religious beliefs. They fear being wrong.
As it shatters their illusions
I have nothing to fear here, as its not a belief for me. When I know each year Muslim terrorists carry out tens of thousands of terrorist attacks. Yet for some reason, some people want to make them get away scott free with this attack.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by 'Wolfie Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:19 am
eddie wrote:It’s there on YouTube. The firemen? Most people who e debated 9/11 have seen it? They are eyewitnesses which obviously, you disbelieve.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
Tens of thousands of people see and experience disasters like these in person...
Millions of people have seen them on television; and read experts followup reports..
Yet the likes of eddie and HT choose to ignore all these -- and instead want to believe only a handful of YouTube videos telling them what they want to hear..
Go figure !
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:41 am
Didge wrote:eddie wrote:It’s there on YouTube. The firemen? Most people who e debated 9/11 have seen it? They are eyewitnesses which obviously, you disbelieve.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
So basically, you have not heard just when the building collapses.
Like I say, can you hear any controlled explosion?
Listen to that and then listen to actual buildings brought down by controlled explosions
I find itg tiring when the so called truthers, never bother to actually be skeptical of the very claims, they present. They take them as verbatim from the sources. Never daring to actually see the counter views on this. Which the reason is, just as we see with religious beliefs. It sows the seed of doubt that they could be wrong on this and just like religious beliefs. They fear being wrong.
As it shatters their illusions
I have nothing to fear here, as its not a belief for me. When I know each year Muslim terrorists carry out tens of thousands of terrorist attacks. Yet for some reason, some people want to make them get away scott free with this attack.
Explosions were heard.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:30 am
HoratioTarr wrote:Didge wrote:
So basically, you have not heard just when the building collapses.
Like I say, can you hear any controlled explosion?
Listen to that and then listen to actual buildings brought down by controlled explosions
I find itg tiring when the so called truthers, never bother to actually be skeptical of the very claims, they present. They take them as verbatim from the sources. Never daring to actually see the counter views on this. Which the reason is, just as we see with religious beliefs. It sows the seed of doubt that they could be wrong on this and just like religious beliefs. They fear being wrong.
As it shatters their illusions
I have nothing to fear here, as its not a belief for me. When I know each year Muslim terrorists carry out tens of thousands of terrorist attacks. Yet for some reason, some people want to make them get away scott free with this attack.
Explosions were heard.
So you are saying explosions were heard
Can you hear them in the video as the building collpases?
No
You see you again rely on hearsay
Is it really what people heard?
Or simple the sound of the building collasping?
You see this is why the truthers evidence is weak and flimsy to say the least Horatio
The building does not free fall, discounting explosives being placed on every floor
It cannot be Thermite then, as it does not make an explosion sound and does not burn through steel
It cannot be Thermate, which does make an explosion sound and burn through steel, but no barium nitrate was found
So what explosives do you claim were used? Based on the hearsay views, of which those persons could be mistaken on what they actually heard?
I cant hear any explosions here, can you?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:49 pm
Didge wrote:HoratioTarr wrote:
Explosions were heard.
So you are saying explosions were heard
Can you hear them in the video as the building collpases?
No
You see you again rely on hearsay
Is it really what people heard?
Or simple the sound of the building collasping?
You see this is why the truthers evidence is weak and flimsy to say the least Horatio
The building does not free fall, discounting explosives being placed on every floor
It cannot be Thermite then, as it does not make an explosion sound and does not burn through steel
It cannot be Thermate, which does make an explosion sound and burn through steel, but no barium nitrate was found
So what explosives do you claim were used? Based on the hearsay views, of which those persons could be mistaken on what they actually heard?
I cant hear any explosions here, can you?
So by that yardstick, any witnesses at any event or tragedy are liars? Because it's just 'hearsay'.
All those firemen, and members of the public, over a 100 of them, all lying? All mistaken? Don't you think that their statements should at least be listened to and taken into account?
When the Grenville Tower fire was burning, witnesses on the ground heard the screams of all those poor people. It wasn't captured on video. Does that mean those people were all mistaken?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:03 pm
The other thing I'm wondering about is why, if people said they heard explosions, this was not thoroughly investigated in case the terrorists had planted bombs in the adjacent buildings or in the TT themselves. But none of this was even spoken of. Why? Nothing about bombs at all, even though bombs are a terrorists main weapon. It's as though the powers that be are keeping a stalwart silence in the hope people will just stop wondering and questioning and go away.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by magica Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:09 pm
I remember a news reporter said the twin towers had gone. They were clearly seen standing behind her. It was a while after, they then did fall.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:13 pm
HoratioTarr wrote:Didge wrote:
So you are saying explosions were heard
Can you hear them in the video as the building collpases?
No
You see you again rely on hearsay
Is it really what people heard?
Or simple the sound of the building collasping?
You see this is why the truthers evidence is weak and flimsy to say the least Horatio
The building does not free fall, discounting explosives being placed on every floor
It cannot be Thermite then, as it does not make an explosion sound and does not burn through steel
It cannot be Thermate, which does make an explosion sound and burn through steel, but no barium nitrate was found
So what explosives do you claim were used? Based on the hearsay views, of which those persons could be mistaken on what they actually heard?
I cant hear any explosions here, can you?
So by that yardstick, any witnesses at any event or tragedy are liars? Because it's just 'hearsay'.
All those firemen, and members of the public, over a 100 of them, all lying? All mistaken? Don't you think that their statements should at least be listened to and taken into account?
When the Grenville Tower fire was burning, witnesses on the ground heard the screams of all those poor people. It wasn't captured on video. Does that mean those people were all mistaken?
Did I call them liars or are you being deliberately stupid here?
Did I say that they have mistaken what they have heard, with the start of the buidling collapsing with the steel supports snapping, after bending and sagging and then not being able to take the weight above anymore?
Now how many of those people have even actually heard what a real explosion is?
You then claim that when they hear a noise, they then deduce that it was an explosion?
Fuck me, you would be torn apart in a court room
Again and i will really dumb this down for you, how can they be certain the noise they heard was an explosion
Again why is it on the video, is quite and there is no explosion when the building comes down.
That then is right to be skeptical of what people claim to hear
Take as long as you like on that
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:48 pm
Didge wrote:HoratioTarr wrote:
So by that yardstick, any witnesses at any event or tragedy are liars? Because it's just 'hearsay'.
All those firemen, and members of the public, over a 100 of them, all lying? All mistaken? Don't you think that their statements should at least be listened to and taken into account?
When the Grenville Tower fire was burning, witnesses on the ground heard the screams of all those poor people. It wasn't captured on video. Does that mean those people were all mistaken?
Did I call them liars or are you being deliberately stupid here?
Did I say that they have mistaken what they have heard, with the start of the buidling collapsing with the steel supports snapping, after bending and sagging and then not being able to take the weight above anymore?
Now how many of those people have even actually heard what a real explosion is?
You then claim that when they hear a noise, they then deduce that it was an explosion?
Fuck me, you would be torn apart in a court room
Again and i will really dumb this down for you, how can they be certain the noise they heard was an explosion
Again why is it on the video, is quite and there is no explosion when the building comes down.
That then is right to be skeptical of what people claim to hear
Take as long as you like on that
I'm sure firemen are familiar with what an explosion sounds like.
The fact that you're sinking into insulting me shows that my counter arguments are getting to you. I'm not stupid, far from it, and I'm putting across not only my thoughts on this but the thoughts of people far smarter and more learned and qualified on the matter than you and I. There's a paradigm shift already taking place. In time the truth will out.
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:56 pm
HoratioTarr wrote:Didge wrote:
Did I call them liars or are you being deliberately stupid here?
Did I say that they have mistaken what they have heard, with the start of the buidling collapsing with the steel supports snapping, after bending and sagging and then not being able to take the weight above anymore?
Now how many of those people have even actually heard what a real explosion is?
You then claim that when they hear a noise, they then deduce that it was an explosion?
Fuck me, you would be torn apart in a court room
Again and i will really dumb this down for you, how can they be certain the noise they heard was an explosion
Again why is it on the video, is quite and there is no explosion when the building comes down.
That then is right to be skeptical of what people claim to hear
Take as long as you like on that
I'm sure firemen are familiar with what an explosion sounds like.
The fact that you're sinking into insulting me shows that my counter arguments are getting to you. I'm not stupid, far from it, and I'm putting across not only my thoughts on this but the thoughts of people far smarter and more learned and qualified on the matter than you and I. There's a paradigm shift already taking place. In time the truth will out.
More hearsay now from you. Have they heard steel structures breaking up?
Again on the many videos, there is no explosion noise, just before the buildings come down. Maybe you can find one to back your claims
How was it insulting when not once did i claim they were lying and yet you stated i claimed they were
Did I not say in the previous post about them being mistaken what they heard?
Yes or no?
Did you miss that part, which would suggest you are not actually reading the replies, which would explain why you constantly avoid many questions and points put to it.
So I am all up for a debate, just make sure you actually engage in one by reading my replies and answering the points
Thanks
No, there is a minor few people experts in their fields, out to make a name for themselves on 9/11 and as seen they are disingenious, the so called experts you posted
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by HoratioTarr Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:13 pm
Didge wrote:HoratioTarr wrote:
I'm sure firemen are familiar with what an explosion sounds like.
The fact that you're sinking into insulting me shows that my counter arguments are getting to you. I'm not stupid, far from it, and I'm putting across not only my thoughts on this but the thoughts of people far smarter and more learned and qualified on the matter than you and I. There's a paradigm shift already taking place. In time the truth will out.
More hearsay now from you. Have they heard steel structures breaking up?
Didn't we all hear the TT breaking up? But to answer what you're clumsily implying - Seeing as no other Steel tube frame with composite steel beam and deck floors building has ever been totally collapsed in this way, then, on 9/11, no. Though I'm sure most fire fighters are familiar with the sound of a steel framed building being subjected to controlled demolition in which case the answer will be...yes.
Again on the many videos, there is no explosion noise, just before the buildings come down. Maybe you can find one to back your claims
You clearly haven't taken the time to watch the videos myself and other have posted.
How was it insulting when not once did i claim they were lying and yet you stated i claimed they were
You question their integrity when they were there and you were not.
Did I not say in the previous post about them being mistaken what they heard?
Yes or no?
Who are you to say they are mistaken? Were you there? No.
Did you miss that part, which would suggest you are not actually reading the replies, which would explain why you constantly avoid many questions and points put to it.
So I am all up for a debate, just make sure you actually engage in one by reading my replies and answering the points
Thanks
No, there is a minor few people experts in their fields, out to make a name for themselves on 9/11 and as seen they are disingenious, the so called experts you posted
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by eddie Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:22 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:eddie wrote:It’s there on YouTube. The firemen? Most people who e debated 9/11 have seen it? They are eyewitnesses which obviously, you disbelieve.
I tend to believe eyewitness accounts.
Anyway like I said on that thread, I do find debating this quite tiring. I’ve done it for years and the people who are open to ideas and aren’t fixed either way, are the people I prefer to discuss stuff with.
Closed and made-up minds are tedious - and that’s goes for all ALL topics imo.
Off out, laters.
Tens of thousands of people see and experience disasters like these in person...
Millions of people have seen them on television; and read experts followup reports..
Yet the likes of eddie and HT choose to ignore all these -- and instead want to believe only a handful of YouTube videos telling them what they want to hear..
Go figure !
You didnt read my post properly - it’s a habit of yours.
The YouTube video is of THE FIREMEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW AND HEARD?
AS IN, EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS? AS IN, THEY ARE SPEAKING, WITH THEIR MOUTHS ABOUT WHAT THEIR EYES SAW AND THEIR EARS HEARD AND THEN SOMEBODY PUT THAT SPOKEN ACCOUNT ON YOUTUBE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
Here’s hoping!
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:25 pm
HoratioTarr wrote:
Didn't we all hear the TT breaking up? But to answer what you're clumsily implying - Seeing as no other Steel tube frame with composite steel beam and deck floors building has ever been totally collapsed in this way, then, on 9/11, no. Though I'm sure most fire fighters are familiar with the sound of a steel framed building being subjected to controlled demolition in which case the answer will be...yes.Didge wrote:Wrong and bullshit reply
Yes other buildings have collapsed with steel beams and deck floors. You are continue to spout the same lie from your bullshit experts
I even named buildings that have.
Even the lie claiming no building has collapsed, does not mean no such event will ever happen
Or did you not think of that either?
The reality is buildings have collapsed.
Again you make many assertions on Fire fighters and all you did was present a couple of them
I am more interested in the fact thousands more Police and Fire fighters make no such claim
I mean if a fire fighter, the Queen and the Prime Minister claim they have seen Elvis alive. Does that mean he is alive?
You clearly haven't taken the time to watch the videos myself and other have posted.
You question their integrity when they were there and you were not.
Who are you to say they are mistaken? Were you there? No.
I have to laugh at the last replies
So because neither off us were there, you take the view expressed by a couple of people you have watched on youtube, never actually speaking to a mass of people on 9/11 who witnessed the events. You take a select few. Where on such events, there is always a mix of confusing views made by people. No matter the traumatic event. So its not questioning their integrity at all, as people are often confused over what they hear and saw.
The fact is, you cannot produce a single video of the towers falling which have an explosion sounding before the collapse.
Now I have actually been very near to where a bomb went off. At London Bridge on the higher level platforms and believe me its very loud and it can be heard for miles around
So again and I will repeat, how comes in any video that captures the towers coming down. There is no sound of any explosions?
Last edited by Didge on Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:27 pm
eddie wrote:WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Tens of thousands of people see and experience disasters like these in person...
Millions of people have seen them on television; and read experts followup reports..
Yet the likes of eddie and HT choose to ignore all these -- and instead want to believe only a handful of YouTube videos telling them what they want to hear..
Go figure !
You didnt read my post properly - it’s a habit of yours.
The YouTube video is of THE FIREMEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW AND HEARD?
AS IN, EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS? AS IN, THEY ARE SPEAKING, WITH THEIR MOUTHS ABOUT WHAT THEIR EYES SAW AND THEIR EARS HEARD AND THEN SOMEBODY PUT THAT SPOKEN ACCOUNT ON YOUTUBE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
Here’s hoping!
So if people claim to have seen Elvis, does that mean Elvis is still alive?
Now, take as long as you like here, but is it "possible" they may have been mistaken by what they heard?
What you never ask yourself, is why considering tens of thousands witnessed the events, we do not have them saying any such things on clips, do we?
Or with the case of molten metal, be mistaken thinking its molten steel and not molten alluminium?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Syl Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:55 pm
Is it possible than gas pipes or water pipes could have exploded before the buildings fell?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Syl Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:55 pm
Is it not possible that gas pipes or water pipes could be heard to explode before the buildings fell?
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:00 pm
Syl wrote:Is it possible than gas pipes or water pipes could have exploded before the buildings fell?
There is a theory on molten Aluminum coming into contact with the water sprinkler systems, as it seeped down into the floors below. This would account for some of the witnesses that claim to hear an explosion. It also would dispell the conspiracy theorists as well. You can read below. Its certainly plausible, that this could have happened and why I do not not discount it. It has a scientific methodology, but would need to be tested further
https://www.livescience.com/16179-twin-tower-collapse-model-squash-9-11-conspiracies.html
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by magica Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:49 pm
Didge wrote:eddie wrote:
You didnt read my post properly - it’s a habit of yours.
The YouTube video is of THE FIREMEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW AND HEARD?
AS IN, EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS? AS IN, THEY ARE SPEAKING, WITH THEIR MOUTHS ABOUT WHAT THEIR EYES SAW AND THEIR EARS HEARD AND THEN SOMEBODY PUT THAT SPOKEN ACCOUNT ON YOUTUBE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
Here’s hoping!
So if people claim to have seen Elvis, does that mean Elvis is still alive?
Now, take as long as you like here, but is it "possible" they may have been mistaken by what they heard?
What you never ask yourself, is why considering tens of thousands witnessed the events, we do not have them saying any such things on clips, do we?
Or with the case of molten metal, be mistaken thinking its molten steel and not molten alluminium?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
I heard Elvis works in a chip shop
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Re: 10 shocking conspiracy stories which were actually true
by Guest Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:59 pm
magica wrote:Didge wrote:
So if people claim to have seen Elvis, does that mean Elvis is still alive?
Now, take as long as you like here, but is it "possible" they may have been mistaken by what they heard?
What you never ask yourself, is why considering tens of thousands witnessed the events, we do not have them saying any such things on clips, do we?
Or with the case of molten metal, be mistaken thinking its molten steel and not molten alluminium?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?
I heard Elvis works in a chip shop
Have a good evening Magica
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