Donald Trump: "Enough with the nice!"

First topic message reminder :

Still don't like him but I find he comes across as kind of sensible in this short video interview with WJS.
His comment about helping the black youths of America was pretty on point.

Syl wrote:

sassy wrote:I often think that although we think American and English is the same, it isn't!

I think that explains a lot of misunderstandings between Brits and Yanks.
We may look alike, walk and talk alike, but we are not alike.
I read Eddies post and I thought she was being nice rather than nasty.

Thank you. I perhaps should've worded it more clearly.

Syl wrote:

sassy wrote:I often think that although we think American and English is the same, it isn't!

I think that explains a lot of misunderstandings between Brits and Yanks.
We may look alike, walk and talk alike, but we are not alike.
I read Eddies post and I thought she was being nice rather than nasty.

Americans (US) and Brits are hugely different. For starters, read Alixis de Toqueville, Democracy in America. More a work in sociology really, it tells where America has already departed from Britain as of 1834.

Then there are things the Brits have never experienced, like slavery, the civil war, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, immigration, anti-immigrant nativism, white supremacy, anti-government, firearms, American freedom and independence, New Left liberalism (Berkeley and Oberlin), Black Panthers, Black separatism...the list goes on and on. America left Britain 150-years before the American Revolution (1776), which is what caused the Revolution, BTW.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

sassy wrote:I often think that although we think American and English is the same, it isn't!

I think that explains a lot of misunderstandings between Brits and Yanks.
We may look alike, walk and talk alike, but we are not alike.
I read Eddies post and I thought she was being nice rather than nasty.

Americans (US) and Brits are hugely different.  For starters, read Alixis de Toqueville, Democracy in America.  More a work in sociology really, it tells where America has already departed from Britain as of 1834.  

Then there are things the Brits have never experienced, like slavery, the civil war, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, immigration, anti-immigrant nativism, white supremacy, anti-government, firearms, American freedom and independence, New Left liberalism (Berkeley and Oberlin), Black Panthers, Black separatism...the list goes on and on.  America left Britain 150-years before the American Revolution (1776), which is what caused the Revolution, BTW.

Uk had slavery, Several civil wars, peonage segregation on far more levels than just skin colour.
white(W.A.S.P) supremacy and anti government movements.
Instead of Black read IRA, Irish nationalists Etc.
And the US doesn't have Liberalism, it follows others after a few decades on most liberal policies. It is like the Brits saying that have a multicultural experiment because they are copying what we have successfully done for decades already


the big difference is that Brits (and Europeans) are more subservient, less adaptive, less entrepreneurial and more insular and more self-entitled.
But the fact that Both have been a world power mean you are far more alike than different. there is an arrogance and expectation to have other nations listen that most peoples do not posses.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Americans (US) and Brits are hugely different.  For starters, read Alixis de Toqueville, Democracy in America.  More a work in sociology really, it tells where America has already departed from Britain as of 1834.  

Then there are things the Brits have never experienced, like slavery, the civil war, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, immigration, anti-immigrant nativism, white supremacy, anti-government, firearms, American freedom and independence, New Left liberalism (Berkeley and Oberlin), Black Panthers, Black separatism...the list goes on and on.  America left Britain 150-years before the American Revolution (1776), which is what caused the Revolution, BTW.

Uk had slavery, Several civil wars, peonage segregation on far more levels than just skin colour.
white(W.A.S.P) supremacy and anti government movements.  
Instead of Black read IRA, Irish nationalists Etc.
And the US doesn't have Liberalism, it follows others after a few decades on most liberal policies. It is like the Brits saying that have a multicultural experiment because they are copying what we have successfully done for decades already

Nowhere near the same thing as American history.  Both sides have automobiles, but do they drive the same?  Not hardly.  They don't even drive on the same side.  You can classify such things as civil wars and slavery, but they are a whole different part of the floorplan. The Brits have their own history, and it has nothing to do with America.  The same with the US...it has nothing to do with Britain.

veya_victaous wrote:the big difference is that Brits (and Europeans) are more subservient, less adaptive, less entrepreneurial and more insular and more self-entitled.
But the fact that Both have been a world power mean you are far more alike than different. there is an arrogance and expectation to have other nations listen that most peoples do not posses.

Brits also live in a smaller space.  Don't discount the 'endless frontier' thesis in America.  It did so much to change our notions of freedom and independence.  

The idea of power is also vastly different today from what it was in the 1800's, and Britain's heyday.  In the British context, it was power with no sense of responsibility.  It was invention, expansion, and authoritarianism, without a care or concern for the people or the world you stepped on.  Today, it is ecology, social responsibility and deference to the cultures of others.  That is why Argentina and Gaza matter.  Why global warming matters.  And why black lives matter.

The world is a lot different.  America may have the power, but she also has the constraints.  And she has the Internet, instant world news, and cell phone cameras to assure that we tow the mark.  The age of selfishness ended with the close of WWII on the decks of the USS Missouri, which coincidentally was the start of US ascendancy.

the end of selfishness, ended with ww2?
My god tell that to south east Asia, south America or any other the other victims of US imperialism.
The same in most ways the world and tools have changed but the greed had not.

the US history has everything to do with Britain they are entwined immensely. neither would be with out the other. British Rule got harsher as a result of the US revolution and the USA would not be the USA if Washington didn't have redcoats to beat. the redcoat British solider being synonymous with evil oppressors probably wouldn’t be such a global phenomenon if it wasn't for the US revolution
(UK learnt it's lesson and applied them to Australia, Isolate and starve each colony of resources)

And Both the US and British Empire would never have existed if it wasn’t for the Mongol empire. Since ALL mankind history in entwined far more than national patriotism allows for.


as Aussies we can see some of the both of you in ourselves. we have the endless frontiers and are far more mercenary and entrepreneurial than the Europeans, much like the USA. But unlike the USA we didn't try and break from traditions, the change is a natural evolution, and felt no need to pretty up our history... which is the difference, Aussies tend to tell it like it is with little to no regard for the traditional niceties.

we also drive on the correct side of the road, like the brits

veya_victaous wrote:the end of selfishness, ended with ww2?
My god tell that to south east Asia, south America or any other the other victims of US imperialism.
The same in most ways the world and tools have changed but the greed had not.

the US history has everything to do with Britain they are entwined immensely. neither would be with out the other. British Rule got harsher as a result of the US revolution and the USA would not be the USA if Washington didn't have redcoats to beat. the redcoat British solider being synonymous with evil oppressors probably wouldn’t be such a global phenomenon if it wasn't for the US revolution
(UK learnt it's lesson and applied them to Australia, Isolate and starve each colony of resources)

And Both the US and British Empire would never have existed if it wasn’t for the Mongol empire. Since ALL mankind history in entwined far more than national patriotism allows for.


as Aussies we can see some of the both of you in ourselves. we have the endless frontiers and are far more mercenary and entrepreneurial than the Europeans, much like the USA. But unlike the USA we didn't try and break from traditions, the change is a natural evolution, and felt no need to pretty up our history... which is the difference, Aussies tend to tell it like it is with little to no regard for the traditional niceties.

we also drive on the correct side of the road, like the brits
 

The British were selfish; the Americans were stupid.  There is a difference.

Really, we all were stupid.  Some of us still are.  It took decades for the west to learn that it's not all about blowing shit up.  That's what Korea, Vietnam and a myriad other conflicts were all about.  You can't answer humanitarian and diplomatic questions with an army and killing a lot of babies.

Also, it took decades for us to learn that some of that shit isn't any of our business, anyway. That's true right now with ISIS.  I think Iraq II taught the western world--not just the US--to leave it alone if you don't have a purpose...if you don't have a dog in that fight.  That's what I mean about stupid, not selfish. Without a strategic purpose, WTF are you doing?

When you make loose comparisons like that between Britain vs. the US, you are probably comparing eras, not countries.  Britain's was the era of selfishness; the US's was the era of stupidity.  But in both cases, we were all selfish...we were all stupid.

Aren't we all a little stupid and selfish and at the end of the day, aren't we all the same underneath?

@veya, my son fell absolutely in love with your country and its people and upon arrive back in the uk - started up his fund called "Straya" for next year.

All donations welcome

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Americans (US) and Brits are hugely different.  For starters, read Alixis de Toqueville, Democracy in America.  More a work in sociology really, it tells where America has already departed from Britain as of 1834.  

Then there are things the Brits have never experienced, like slavery, the civil war, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, immigration, anti-immigrant nativism, white supremacy, anti-government, firearms, American freedom and independence, New Left liberalism (Berkeley and Oberlin), Black Panthers, Black separatism...the list goes on and on.  America left Britain 150-years before the American Revolution (1776), which is what caused the Revolution, BTW.

Uk had slavery, Several civil wars, peonage segregation on far more levels than just skin colour.
white(W.A.S.P) supremacy and anti government movements.  
Instead of Black read IRA, Irish nationalists Etc.
And the US doesn't have Liberalism, it follows others after a few decades on most liberal policies. It is like the Brits saying that have a multicultural experiment because they are copying what we have successfully done for decades already


the big difference is that Brits (and Europeans) are more subservient, less adaptive, less entrepreneurial and more insular and more self-entitled.
But the fact that Both have been a world power mean you are far more alike than different. there is an arrogance and expectation to have other nations listen that most peoples do not posses.

Are you seriously suggesting that the IRA were "victims"? That's the kind of thing I find depressing about this forum. Every time you post you're slagging off Brits, defending terrorist bastards who like to murder Brits, and blowing your own trumpet.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Americans (US) and Brits are hugely different.  For starters, read Alixis de Toqueville, Democracy in America.  More a work in sociology really, it tells where America has already departed from Britain as of 1834.  

Then there are things the Brits have never experienced, like slavery, the civil war, peonage, separate but equal, segregation, immigration, anti-immigrant nativism, white supremacy, anti-government, firearms, American freedom and independence, New Left liberalism (Berkeley and Oberlin), Black Panthers, Black separatism...the list goes on and on.  America left Britain 150-years before the American Revolution (1776), which is what caused the Revolution, BTW.

Uk had slavery, Several civil wars, peonage segregation on far more levels than just skin colour.
white(W.A.S.P) supremacy and anti government movements.  
Instead of Black read IRA, Irish nationalists Etc.
And the US doesn't have Liberalism, it follows others after a few decades on most liberal policies. It is like the Brits saying that have a multicultural experiment because they are copying what we have successfully done for decades already


the big difference is that Brits (and Europeans) are more subservient, less adaptive, less entrepreneurial and more insular and more self-entitled.
But the fact that Both have been a world power mean you are far more alike than different. there is an arrogance and expectation to have other nations listen that most peoples do not posses.

The residents of the UK are more insular than the residents of the USA?
UK passport holders 83%
USA passport holders 46%....
Another statistic, more US citizens are on facebook than have ever set foot outside their own country.

Trump and Clinton win big-time in Rhode Island, Delaware and Maryland, as well as Pennsylvania and Connecticut. Cruz and that Ohio guy are goners. Sanders is barely holding on.

California will deliver the coup de grâce.