Trevor Phillips – what do Muslims really think?

The data collected by the respected research firm ICM shows what the polling experts call “a chasm” opening between Muslims and non-Muslims on such fundamentals as marriage, relations between men and women, schooling, freedom of expression and even the validity of violence in defence of religion. And the chasm isn’t going to disappear any time soon; indeed, the gaps between Muslim and non-Muslim youngsters are nearly as large as those between their elders.

More than half of the sample reported that they believe that homosexuality should be illegal. Even more opposed gay marriage, and nearly half thought that it was unacceptable for a gay person to teach their children.
…
Homosexuality should be legal in Britain — 18% agree (strongly agree 8%, tend to agree 10%) and 52% disagree (strongly disagree 38%, tend to disagree 14%)
It should come as no surprise that Muslim liberals are in despair. They knew all of this long ago.

But while Muslims clearly like Britain, many are not as enthusiastic about their non-Muslim compatriots. Levels of intermarriage are extremely low compared with other minorities: according to the ONS, fewer than one in 10 Muslim Britons of Pakistani or Bangladeshi heritage are in inter-ethnic relationships. (Whereas more than four in 10 African-Caribbeans are in a mixed relationship.) Even fewer relationships between Muslims and non-Muslims produce children — just 3% of Pakistani or Bangladeshi-heritage children live in mixed households. According to ICM, more than half mix with non-Muslims daily, probably at work or college — but 30% never translate that into a friendship that would take them into a non-Muslim’s house more than once a year. One in five never enter a non-Muslim home.

the separation here isn’t just down to white bigotry.

“The boys used to act as thought police. You know, they would go around and actually hit the girls on their heads if their heads weren’t covered. I even had one boy, one nine-year-old boy, say to me, ‘Why haven’t you covered your head? It is only slags who don’t cover their head.’ ”

Not long ago, I had an exchange with a leading newspaper columnist who airily assured me that he had many Muslim friends, and that they were integrating just as his Irish Catholic forebears did a couple of generations ago. He could not accept that his own circle of acquaintances — probably doctors, lawyers, journalists — might not be typical of the British Muslim experience.

Like most reasonable people I hate all Muslims except the ones I’ve met who seem fine.

Even when confronted with the growing pile of evidence to the contrary, and the angst of the liberal minority of British Muslims, clever, important people still cling to the patronising certainty that British Muslims will, over time, come to see that “our” ways are better.

didge wrote:Opps my mistake, thought I did post in British news lol
 can a mod please move it

Lord Foul wrote:I've been saying this for a long time...integration isnt possible....THEY dont want to.....

hence birminghamistan, bradfordistan and all the other ghettos...
but still we are told "multiculturalism" will save us...PFFFT,,,


I got news for you ...THEY dont want THAT either

Lord Foul wrote:I've been saying this for a long time...integration isnt possible....THEY dont want to.....

hence birminghamistan, bradfordistan and all the other ghettos...
but still we are told "multiculturalism" will save us...PFFFT,,,


I got news for you ...THEY dont want THAT either

sassy wrote:

sassy wrote:I honestly think there is something very wrong with some British people, they seem to think they are somehow the decent human beings on earth, when in fact they are no better than anyone else.   They should get out and mix a bit more, like the Brits who live in ghettos in Europe and don't mix.  Funny how it's ok for them to do that, because they like to be with their own community, but if any other community does it there is something wrong with it. 

Ben_Reilly wrote:It seems like in many quarters, the British definition of integration means "becoming just like us." That's not helpful and will not work -- it's not even multiculturalism. If someone comes to the UK from another culture and abandons it for British culture, they're culturally British, not part of a multiculture.

sassy wrote:Do the Spanish, French, Portugese etc go on about the Brits.  Nope, they accept that people like to live with people they feel comfortable with, and most of them never learn the language.  One rule for us and another for Muslims, sounds about right.

didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:It seems like in many quarters, the British definition of integration means "becoming just like us." That's not helpful and will not work -- it's not even multiculturalism. If someone comes to the UK from another culture and abandons it for British culture, they're culturally British, not part of a multiculture.

Well some Muslim being in conflict with where are laws have people have equality within the law a genuine concern this could lead to further and ongoing problems? When you come to a country, you are doing so adopting to their laws and not where is some neoconservative Muslim views, is for that Islam one days becomes the law of the land. Of course it would need over a hundreds years of Muslim immigration to then become the majority, but there is those that wish for their religion to form the bases for law in this land. That means we have people within society who view some people from a criminal view point. that will create and cause conflict for example with Homosexuals. Some of these Muslims are viewing their belief over that of the law within the land

Do then homosexuals not have a right in this instance to be concerned knowing a sizable amount of Muslims view them with discrimination?
With Literal Christanity diminishing, has been the reason why the Uk has progressed to form equality for groups discriminated

Ben_Reilly wrote:

didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:It seems like in many quarters, the British definition of integration means "becoming just like us." That's not helpful and will not work -- it's not even multiculturalism. If someone comes to the UK from another culture and abandons it for British culture, they're culturally British, not part of a multiculture.

Well some Muslim being in conflict with where are laws have people have equality within the law a genuine concern this could lead to further and ongoing problems? When you come to a country, you are doing so adopting to their laws and not where is some neoconservative Muslim views, is for that Islam one days becomes the law of the land. Of course it would need over a hundreds years of Muslim immigration to then become the majority, but there is those that wish for their religion to form the bases for law in this land. That means we have people within society who view some people from a criminal view point. that will create and cause conflict for example with Homosexuals. Some of these Muslims are viewing their belief over that of the law within the land

Do then homosexuals not have a right in this instance to be concerned knowing a sizable amount of Muslims view them with discrimination?
With Literal Christanity diminishing, has been the reason why the Uk has progressed to form equality for groups discriminated

That post was pretty difficult to parse, but let me just ask this -- why isn't there at least the same, if not actually more, concern over the 16 percent of non-Muslim British who want homosexuality to be illegal? That's surely a much larger percentage of the total British population than even the half of Muslims who want homosexuality banned.

because those we can smack in the gob with relative impunity, we can tell em to F**k off and crawl back into their cess pit hovels....
we can tell em they are not wanted and are evil.....Do that to a Muslim...regardless of good cause ...and you will be hit with "racially/religiously agravated charges . See "the Muslim" demanded (and got) "special protection" to peddle their particular brand of primitive backwardness

While you're paying this much attention to the half of a small minority group that wants this or that -- about 1.5 million people spread throughout the UK -- why aren't you paying attention to, say, National Action? Do you routinely get up in arms about the beliefs held by about two and a half percent of your population?

sassy wrote:Because it's Europe, and they have just about the same laws, that's why, or they would.  They make sure the place is full greasy spoon cafes etc and chips with everything.

sassy wrote:Because it's Europe, and they have just about the same laws, that's why, or they would.  They make sure the place is full greasy spoon cafes etc and chips with everything.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

didge wrote:

Well some Muslim being in conflict with where are laws have people have equality within the law a genuine concern this could lead to further and ongoing problems? When you come to a country, you are doing so adopting to their laws and not where is some neoconservative Muslim views, is for that Islam one days becomes the law of the land. Of course it would need over a hundreds years of Muslim immigration to then become the majority, but there is those that wish for their religion to form the bases for law in this land. That means we have people within society who view some people from a criminal view point. that will create and cause conflict for example with Homosexuals. Some of these Muslims are viewing their belief over that of the law within the land

Do then homosexuals not have a right in this instance to be concerned knowing a sizable amount of Muslims view them with discrimination?
With Literal Christanity diminishing, has been the reason why the Uk has progressed to form equality for groups discriminated

That post was pretty difficult to parse, but let me just ask this -- why isn't there at least the same, if not actually more, concern over the 16 percent of non-Muslim British who want homosexuality to be illegal? That's surely a much larger percentage of the total British population than even the half of Muslims who want homosexuality banned.

While you're paying this much attention to the half of a small minority group that wants this or that -- about 1.5 million people spread throughout the UK -- why aren't you paying attention to, say, National Action? Do you routinely get up in arms about the beliefs held by about two and a half percent of your population?

sassy wrote:Perhaps it's the vibes you are putting out Vic, I've never had anything but good.

(Sure as hell would not have forgiven the bloke for kicking the dog, would probably have slapped him)

Lord Foul wrote:on the basis of observation
on the basis of such polls as were used in this particular study

and on the basis that they do, like it or not, demand that "their" ways be given credence and indeed in some cases precedence....

one doesnt have to be a wasp to know wasps are bad news

Lord Foul wrote:

sassy wrote:Perhaps it's the vibes you are putting out Vic, I've never had anything but good.

(Sure as hell would not have forgiven the bloke for kicking the dog, would probably have slapped him)

yeah yeah...and then you would have ended up with a "racially/religiously agravated" assault charge..you know they are largely "untouchable"

mind , the irony of such a lefty as yourself being hauled up and charged with racism...under the lefty promulgated rules, on a lefty "protected species" would be simply delicious....

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:on the basis of observation
on the basis of such polls as were used in this particular study

and on the basis that they do, like it or not, demand that "their" ways be given credence and indeed in some cases precedence....

one doesnt have to be a wasp to know wasps are bad news

on the basis of observation they try but the Anglo Britain doesn't want them to and isolate and demonize them.

and as ben said the Uk seem the think integration is being British with a different skin colour, If you cant let them integrate then how are they going to integrate

literally British fear of change is preventing and reasonable person from integrating

sassy wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

sassy wrote:Perhaps it's the vibes you are putting out Vic, I've never had anything but good.

(Sure as hell would not have forgiven the bloke for kicking the dog, would probably have slapped him)

yeah yeah...and then you would have ended up with a "racially/religiously agravated" assault charge..you know they are largely "untouchable"

mind , the irony of such a lefty as yourself being hauled up and charged with racism...under the lefty promulgated rules, on a lefty "protected species" would be simply delicious....

My word, you do let your paranoia take over sometimes

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:on the basis of observation
on the basis of such polls as were used in this particular study

and on the basis that they do, like it or not, demand that "their" ways be given credence and indeed in some cases precedence....

one doesnt have to be a wasp to know wasps are bad news

on the basis of observation they try but the Anglo Britain doesn't want them to and isolate and demonize them.

and as ben said the Uk seem the think integration is being British with a different skin colour, If you cant let them integrate then how are they going to integrate

literally British fear of change is preventing and reasonable person from integrating

So you didnt read the OP then

not that that would stop you having your daily anti brit rant

Ben_Reilly wrote:

sassy wrote:I honestly think there is something very wrong with some British people, they seem to think they are somehow the decent human beings on earth, when in fact they are no better than anyone else.   They should get out and mix a bit more, like the Brits who live in ghettos in Europe and don't mix.  Funny how it's ok for them to do that, because they like to be with their own community, but if any other community does it there is something wrong with it. 

I was going to add in my last post, it's not like there aren't British overseas enclaves What's so wrong with that? We all tend to feel most at home with our own culture, that's okay, but at the same time, afford other people the same courtesy and realize they feel the same way. And it doesn't at all mean that the people can't mix or get along.

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

So you didnt read the OP then

not that that would stop you having your daily anti brit rant

Trevor fails to take into account that they have intergrated elsewhere without major issue only in EUROPE is there a major problem thus the stand out factor IS not Muslims but Europeans.

even the Title shows how fucking stupid trevor is
"What Muslim's think?" typical issue Constantly coming out of Europe Treat others as homogenous when they are not.
None of you ever seem to get that IF you can treat all Muslims in any way based on this, I can treat ALL brits the same based on if they had stormee's opinion.

the Fact that this Trevor(i have no idea who he is) is taken seriously rather than treated like the half brained bogan he obviously is show that the UK has huge issue that have nothing to do with Islam. whatever group Trevor is from is clearly a MAJOR part of the problem.

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:on the basis of observation
on the basis of such polls as were used in this particular study

and on the basis that they do, like it or not, demand that "their" ways be given credence and indeed in some cases precedence....

one doesnt have to be a wasp to know wasps are bad news

on the basis of observation they try but the Anglo Britain doesn't want them to and isolate and demonize them.

and as ben said the Uk seem the think integration is being British with a different skin colour, If you cant let them integrate then how are they going to integrate

literally British fear of change is preventing and reasonable person from integrating

So you didnt read the OP then

not that that would stop you having your daily anti brit rant

Trevor fails to take into account that they have intergrated elsewhere without major issue only in EUROPE is there a major problem thus the stand out factor IS not Muslims but Europeans.

even the Title shows how fucking stupid trevor is
"What Muslim's think?" typical issue Constantly coming out of Europe Treat others as homogenous when they are not.
None of you ever seem to get that IF you can treat all Muslims in any way based on this, I can treat ALL brits the same based on if they had stormee's opinion.

the Fact that this Trevor(i have no idea who he is) is taken seriously rather than treated like the half brained bogan he obviously is show that the UK has huge issue that have nothing to do with Islam. whatever group Trevor is from is clearly a MAJOR part of the problem.

didge wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

So you didnt read the OP then

not that that would stop you having your daily anti brit rant

Trevor fails to take into account that they have intergrated elsewhere without major issue only in EUROPE is there a major problem thus the stand out factor IS not Muslims but Europeans.

even the Title shows how fucking stupid trevor is
"What Muslim's think?" typical issue Constantly coming out of Europe Treat others as homogenous when they are not.
None of you ever seem to get that IF you can treat all Muslims in any way based on this, I can treat ALL brits the same based on if they had stormee's opinion.

the Fact that this Trevor(i have no idea who he is) is taken seriously rather than treated like the half brained bogan he obviously is show that the UK has huge issue that have nothing to do with Islam. whatever group Trevor is from is clearly a MAJOR part of the problem.

You still are failing to understand the issues here and most of all fail to understand cause and effect, when within a group, it sets itself separate from that society. IN THE UK Nobody has at any point denied many Muslims do integrate and very much become part of that society. YES YOU HAVE AND DO EVERY SINGLE DAY ON NEWSFIX Where they enjoy the same equality under the law and even privileges based on their beliefs. This problem is not just confined to Muslims either, as we have had others come to this country from Eastern Europe yep never the brit always the immirgants fault who hold far right views or literal Christianity. Though the later is a far less of a problem.

If for years you have succeeding in making society so accepting of others. THE UK HAS NOT DONE THAT It is so ridiculous to dismiss the genuine concerns of people. When for sometime in this country and with Wahhbism being imported into the country. Which is a Neoconservative form of Islam, that views other Muslims as apostates. It is a literal reading of the Islamic texts, which renders this particular sect, that promotes intolerance (not only towards n non-Muslims but also other Muslim sects) Misogamy, inequality, hatred of homosexuals, militantism etc. This problem has steadily grown and the numbers of followers in this country increased with money injected by Saudi. It has also has since the Arab Springs seen efforts to increase its importance through large tracts of money and influence. As they fear islam will lose its religious grip and control.

Now I do not make any distinction, no matter their faith or ethnicity, that come to this country and have regressive beliefs that effect the well being and equality of others. If you decide you want to move to another country. You do so in the knowledge to respect that law, the society and its people, enjoying the same freedoms just as anyone else. If people come here with no wish to integrate whether they hold political or religious extremist views. Then such people should not be here. You fail to see by their separation from the rest of society, which places their beliefs above the law of the law. That holds many prejudice views towards others in society. Becomes then like a virus, where they hold a prejudice openly against for example homosexuals Will lead to then an increase of prejudice within homosexuals towards Muslims. So as you see more Muslims turn to islamism. The more you will have a rise of then Muslims holding prejudice views towards others. Which then creates prejudices from those groups towards Muslims. Which then sees many Muslims who have integrated suffer.

Where a society has gone forward progressively, the last thing you would want, is for a slow continued rise in  prejudice to continue in society. This all is stemming and being caused by the numbers of Muslims becoming Wahhabists, buying into constant poor narratives of hate against the west and countless wackadoodle conspiracy theories. You are then going to have more and more conflict with people within the country, all stemming from tolerating an intolerant doctrine imported to thrive and spread in society. You are also expecting those who have fought long and hard top obtain equality, who will be directly effected by this should forget all the hard work done and just put up with a renewed increase of prejudice towards them. You are basing then saying that their genuine concerns have no importance and they should just put up with this. No they do not have to and they should not have to because the duty of a nation is to protect the human rights of its citizens. This group of Muslims do not respect those human rights being in direct conflict with the laws , where they hold absolute beliefs in direct conflict with society.

Now those foreign born who have come here and hold extremist beliefs whether political or religious and found guilty within the work place or criminal acts. Where the motivating factors stem from these beliefs should be deported as they have no place in a modern progressive society. If I was to go and live in work and live in Saudi, I would have to respect their laws or find myself deported. i fail to see why people should have to just continue to suffer to a growing problem which effects Muslims and Non-Muslims alike in this country. All due to the oppressive Ultraconservative Islamism of Wahhabism funding and controlling schools and Mosques within society.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:on the basis of observation
on the basis of such polls as were used in this particular study

and on the basis that they do, like it or not, demand that "their" ways be given credence and indeed in some cases precedence....

one doesnt have to be a wasp to know wasps are bad news

on the basis of observation they try but the Anglo Britain doesn't want them to and isolate and demonize them.

and as ben said the Uk seem the think integration is being British with a different skin colour, If you cant let them integrate then how are they going to integrate

literally British fear of change is preventing and reasonable person from integrating

So you didnt read the OP then

not that that would stop you having your daily anti brit rant

Trevor fails to take into account that they have intergrated elsewhere without major issue only in EUROPE is there a major problem thus the stand out factor IS not Muslims but Europeans.

even the Title shows how fucking stupid trevor is
"What Muslim's think?" typical issue Constantly coming out of Europe Treat others as homogenous when they are not.
None of you ever seem to get that IF you can treat all Muslims in any way based on this, I can treat ALL brits the same based on if they had stormee's opinion.

the Fact that this Trevor(i have no idea who he is) is taken seriously rather than treated like the half brained bogan he obviously is show that the UK has huge issue that have nothing to do with Islam. whatever group Trevor is from is clearly a MAJOR part of the problem.

What do Australians really think? Please tap into the Australian hive-mind and report back

didge wrote:Well being as both Australians and Americans have large land masses and 0.8% and 2% Muslims spread out within their countries. Where many of these Muslims are not Salfist/Wahhabist, as they are within Europe. So the question is not on if they have a problem, but when they will start to have a problem...







On August 9 this year, about 300 leading figures in Australia’s Muslim community gathered for a dinner at the Waterview reception centre in the Sydney suburb of Homebush.

While the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, sat at his table, the evening was not about him — instead it was about feting Sheik Abdul Salam Zoud, one of the leading candidates to be the next grand mufti.
Zoud is a Salafist — until a year ago a prominent member of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, an extremist Salafist organisation with strong Wahhabi inclinations. He was educated at the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia, the spiritual home of Wahhabism — a hardline sect of Islam from which emerged al-Qa’ida and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks in the US.
The dinner was noteworthy for the fact the Grand Mufti did not speak — despite being the most senior imam, or Islamic scholar, in Australia. Instead, Zoud was the guest speaker and was celebrated as a returning son.
“I was very uncomfortable with the whole thing,” says one Muslim community leader who was at the dinner. “It made you think there was a strategy going on — he’s (Zoud) being groomed, he’s certainly being groomed.”
The extremism of ASWJ is evident from the statements of members such as Sydney Sheik Jamil el-Biza, who has called for Allah to destroy non-believers.
El-Biza, like Zoud, was educated at the Islamic University of Medina and is also a member of the Australian National Imams Council, which elects the grand mufti. He has made online lectures that have appeared in several Australian pro-Islamic State videos. In one video, he screams as he calls for the destruction of Shia Muslims, who he calls “the dogs of this nation”.
The Grand Mufti of Australia, it would seem, is under siege. Not only is he facing a growing political challenge from Salafists but he is also facing intense public scrutiny.
With virtually no English, Abu Mohamed has found himself under demand from the media at a time when Australia’s broader Muslim community has been placed centrestage by events in Australia and overseas.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/moderate-islam-in-danger-from-within/news-story/b5856a47cbc2841260fd406cb4ff0414



Again to ignore these problems, is sowing the seeds of discord within a nation

veya_victaous wrote:

didge wrote:



You still are failing to understand the issues here and most of all fail to understand cause and effect, when within a group, it sets itself separate from that society. IN THE UK Nobody has at any point denied many Muslims do integrate and very much become part of that society. YES YOU HAVE AND DO EVERY SINGLE DAY ON NEWSFIX Where they enjoy the same equality under the law and even privileges based on their beliefs. This problem is not just confined to Muslims either, as we have had others come to this country from Eastern Europe yep never the brit always the immirgants fault who hold far right views or literal Christianity. Though the later is a far less of a problem.

If for years you have succeeding in making society so accepting of others. THE UK HAS NOT DONE THAT It is so ridiculous to dismiss the genuine concerns of people. When for sometime in this country and with Wahhbism being imported into the country. Which is a Neoconservative form of Islam, that views other Muslims as apostates. It is a literal reading of the Islamic texts, which renders this particular sect, that promotes intolerance (not only towards n non-Muslims but also other Muslim sects) Misogamy, inequality, hatred of homosexuals, militantism etc. This problem has steadily grown and the numbers of followers in this country increased with money injected by Saudi. It has also has since the Arab Springs seen efforts to increase its importance through large tracts of money and influence. As they fear islam will lose its religious grip and control.

Now I do not make any distinction, no matter their faith or ethnicity, that come to this country and have regressive beliefs that effect the well being and equality of others. If you decide you want to move to another country. You do so in the knowledge to respect that law, the society and its people, enjoying the same freedoms just as anyone else. If people come here with no wish to integrate whether they hold political or religious extremist views. Then such people should not be here. You fail to see by their separation from the rest of society, which places their beliefs above the law of the law. That holds many prejudice views towards others in society. Becomes then like a virus, where they hold a prejudice openly against for example homosexuals Will lead to then an increase of prejudice within homosexuals towards Muslims. So as you see more Muslims turn to islamism. The more you will have a rise of then Muslims holding prejudice views towards others. Which then creates prejudices from those groups towards Muslims. Which then sees many Muslims who have integrated suffer.

Where a society has gone forward progressively, the last thing you would want, is for a slow continued rise in  prejudice to continue in society. This all is stemming and being caused by the numbers of Muslims becoming Wahhabists, buying into constant poor narratives of hate against the west and countless wackadoodle conspiracy theories. You are then going to have more and more conflict with people within the country, all stemming from tolerating an intolerant doctrine imported to thrive and spread in society. You are also expecting those who have fought long and hard top obtain equality, who will be directly effected by this should forget all the hard work done and just put up with a renewed increase of prejudice towards them. You are basing then saying that their genuine concerns have no importance and they should just put up with this. No they do not have to and they should not have to because the duty of a nation is to protect the human rights of its citizens. This group of Muslims do not respect those human rights being in direct conflict with the laws , where they hold absolute beliefs in direct conflict with society.

Now those foreign born who have come here and hold extremist beliefs whether political or religious and found guilty within the work place or criminal acts. Where the motivating factors stem from these beliefs should be deported as they have no place in a modern progressive society. If I was to go and live in work and live in Saudi, I would have to respect their laws or find myself deported. i fail to see why people should have to just continue to suffer to a growing problem which effects Muslims and Non-Muslims alike in this country. All due to the oppressive Ultraconservative Islamism of Wahhabism funding and controlling schools and Mosques within society.

Sorry If you cant see that demanding Muslims become Arab looking Brits IS NOT integrating them that is the problem.
Most Muslims in Britain are Asians, not Arab, so you are holding poor stereotypes
As Ben Also Pointed out
all you were supposed to do was expect them to obey the law
No you want them to become a part of society, which is impossible if their beliefs conflict with society, the law and groups of people
but you got fools like Victor and You demanding they change the clothes they have always worn
Stop being abusive about posters, take on the points
for no other reason than you don't like the look of them. whinging about their prayers or food and everything little tiny thing that is slightly different than you arbitrary way of doing things.
Again you are inventing unfounded accusations. I do not care about any religious aspect that is not in conflict with the well being and equality of others, I care when it effects social issues and places people in conflict

SO again the UK has NOT provided the environment for Immigrants to Integrate.
It has created the perfect place for people to live and enjoy the many freedoms it has to offer

AND if you think you are any less evil for your discrimination of individuals based on the bullshit sterotype you have made up for yourself about mulsims You are a Hypocrite. Cause it is exactly what Abrahamist religions have done with Jews or women etc.
Again inventing and making yet again unfounded accusations. I stated very clearly in my post this extends to all those who hold extremist political and religious beliefs. Stick to the points
Until every last regressive tradition in the UK is removed (that includes the Queen, Lords etc) You are not in a position to suggest any other group is regressive. cause SO ARE you on a number of factors. Yes they may also be regressive But SO is the UK.
So removing the Queen based on no reasoning is going to make Salfist Muslims view and treat Other Muslims sects and Non-Muslims with equality? How so?
VERY regressive around immirgation intergration and cultral acceptance... You can try and Bullsht all you want but UNITL I was confronted with how common these regressvie views are out of the UK from the mmebers here I woudl not have though the UK SO backward. I joked about it but I have come to realise it is real, the UK is so far behind when it comes to globalised outlook, it is scary as so many of you sound like you belong in 1930's Germany.

didge wrote:Well being as both Australians and Americans have large land masses and 0.8% and 2% Muslims spread out within their countries. Where many of these Muslims are not Salfist/Wahhabist, as they are within Europe. So the question is not on if they have a problem, but when they will start to have a problem...







On August 9 this year, about 300 leading figures in Australia’s Muslim community gathered for a dinner at the Waterview reception centre in the Sydney suburb of Homebush.

While the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, sat at his table, the evening was not about him — instead it was about feting Sheik Abdul Salam Zoud, one of the leading candidates to be the next grand mufti.
Zoud is a Salafist — until a year ago a prominent member of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, an extremist Salafist organisation with strong Wahhabi inclinations. He was educated at the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia, the spiritual home of Wahhabism — a hardline sect of Islam from which emerged al-Qa’ida and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks in the US.
The dinner was noteworthy for the fact the Grand Mufti did not speak — despite being the most senior imam, or Islamic scholar, in Australia. Instead, Zoud was the guest speaker and was celebrated as a returning son.
“I was very uncomfortable with the whole thing,” says one Muslim community leader who was at the dinner. “It made you think there was a strategy going on — he’s (Zoud) being groomed, he’s certainly being groomed.”
The extremism of ASWJ is evident from the statements of members such as Sydney Sheik Jamil el-Biza, who has called for Allah to destroy non-believers.
El-Biza, like Zoud, was educated at the Islamic University of Medina and is also a member of the Australian National Imams Council, which elects the grand mufti. He has made online lectures that have appeared in several Australian pro-Islamic State videos. In one video, he screams as he calls for the destruction of Shia Muslims, who he calls “the dogs of this nation”.
The Grand Mufti of Australia, it would seem, is under siege. Not only is he facing a growing political challenge from Salafists but he is also facing intense public scrutiny.
With virtually no English, Abu Mohamed has found himself under demand from the media at a time when Australia’s broader Muslim community has been placed centrestage by events in Australia and overseas.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/moderate-islam-in-danger-from-within/news-story/b5856a47cbc2841260fd406cb4ff0414



Again to ignore these problems, is sowing the seeds of discord within a nation

Australians offer to go with Muslim Australians in public places if they fear racist backlash #illridewithyou So much better than bigotry `Julian Burnside

The #IllRideWithYou campaign isn't just heart-warming, it's also smart for counterterrorism. Inclusiveness is our best defense.
`Max Abrahms

This is my Australia. Being a Muslim this hashtag is the best thing happened today. I Love You Australia. #illridewithyou
`Arif

Ben_Reilly wrote:

didge wrote:Well being as both Australians and Americans have large land masses and 0.8% and 2% Muslims spread out within their countries. Where many of these Muslims are not Salfist/Wahhabist, as they are within Europe. So the question is not on if they have a problem, but when they will start to have a problem...







On August 9 this year, about 300 leading figures in Australia’s Muslim community gathered for a dinner at the Waterview reception centre in the Sydney suburb of Homebush.

While the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, sat at his table, the evening was not about him — instead it was about feting Sheik Abdul Salam Zoud, one of the leading candidates to be the next grand mufti.
Zoud is a Salafist — until a year ago a prominent member of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, an extremist Salafist organisation with strong Wahhabi inclinations. He was educated at the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia, the spiritual home of Wahhabism — a hardline sect of Islam from which emerged al-Qa’ida and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks in the US.
The dinner was noteworthy for the fact the Grand Mufti did not speak — despite being the most senior imam, or Islamic scholar, in Australia. Instead, Zoud was the guest speaker and was celebrated as a returning son.
“I was very uncomfortable with the whole thing,” says one Muslim community leader who was at the dinner. “It made you think there was a strategy going on — he’s (Zoud) being groomed, he’s certainly being groomed.”
The extremism of ASWJ is evident from the statements of members such as Sydney Sheik Jamil el-Biza, who has called for Allah to destroy non-believers.
El-Biza, like Zoud, was educated at the Islamic University of Medina and is also a member of the Australian National Imams Council, which elects the grand mufti. He has made online lectures that have appeared in several Australian pro-Islamic State videos. In one video, he screams as he calls for the destruction of Shia Muslims, who he calls “the dogs of this nation”.
The Grand Mufti of Australia, it would seem, is under siege. Not only is he facing a growing political challenge from Salafists but he is also facing intense public scrutiny.
With virtually no English, Abu Mohamed has found himself under demand from the media at a time when Australia’s broader Muslim community has been placed centrestage by events in Australia and overseas.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/moderate-islam-in-danger-from-within/news-story/b5856a47cbc2841260fd406cb4ff0414



Again to ignore these problems, is sowing the seeds of discord within a nation

Yeah, we had that San Bernadino thing, and that time that the towers got knocked down, of course. I suppose we should ban Muslims like Trump says

Then maybe we can get around to banning the rest of the ethnic/religious groups that commit horrendous crimes, so the plant and animal life can stop dying off.

veya_victaous wrote:

didge wrote:Well being as both Australians and Americans have large land masses and 0.8% and 2% Muslims spread out within their countries. Where many of these Muslims are not Salfist/Wahhabist, as they are within Europe. So the question is not on if they have a problem, but when they will start to have a problem...







On August 9 this year, about 300 leading figures in Australia’s Muslim community gathered for a dinner at the Waterview reception centre in the Sydney suburb of Homebush.

While the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohamed, sat at his table, the evening was not about him — instead it was about feting Sheik Abdul Salam Zoud, one of the leading candidates to be the next grand mufti.
Zoud is a Salafist — until a year ago a prominent member of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, an extremist Salafist organisation with strong Wahhabi inclinations. He was educated at the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia, the spiritual home of Wahhabism — a hardline sect of Islam from which emerged al-Qa’ida and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks in the US.
The dinner was noteworthy for the fact the Grand Mufti did not speak — despite being the most senior imam, or Islamic scholar, in Australia. Instead, Zoud was the guest speaker and was celebrated as a returning son.
“I was very uncomfortable with the whole thing,” says one Muslim community leader who was at the dinner. “It made you think there was a strategy going on — he’s (Zoud) being groomed, he’s certainly being groomed.”
The extremism of ASWJ is evident from the statements of members such as Sydney Sheik Jamil el-Biza, who has called for Allah to destroy non-believers.
El-Biza, like Zoud, was educated at the Islamic University of Medina and is also a member of the Australian National Imams Council, which elects the grand mufti. He has made online lectures that have appeared in several Australian pro-Islamic State videos. In one video, he screams as he calls for the destruction of Shia Muslims, who he calls “the dogs of this nation”.
The Grand Mufti of Australia, it would seem, is under siege. Not only is he facing a growing political challenge from Salafists but he is also facing intense public scrutiny.
With virtually no English, Abu Mohamed has found himself under demand from the media at a time when Australia’s broader Muslim community has been placed centrestage by events in Australia and overseas.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/moderate-islam-in-danger-from-within/news-story/b5856a47cbc2841260fd406cb4ff0414



Again to ignore these problems, is sowing the seeds of discord within a nation

no didge it isn't cause we are converting them to irreligion.
we don't do it by fighting on every little hill, like peasant hill shepherds

we pick the big issue and focus on them, the hard-line Muslim community is constantly shrinking here cause they can't compete with freedom in paradise.

Australia’s Love and Kindness will achieve more than the cold heart and miserly British attitude


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-15/illridewithyou-hashtag-takes-off-following-siege/5969102

Australians offer to go with Muslim Australians in public places if they fear racist backlash #illridewithyou So much better than bigotry `Julian Burnside

The #IllRideWithYou campaign isn't just heart-warming, it's also smart for counterterrorism. Inclusiveness is our best defense.
`Max Abrahms

This is my Australia. Being a Muslim this hashtag is the best thing happened today. I Love You Australia. #illridewithyou
`Arif

veya_victaous wrote:We are not going around in circle YOU are failing to accept that Justice is NOT either/or it is not given to one group at the detriment of another.

You defend the Homosexual not by fighting the Muslim but by fighting the homophobe.

If you cant see that to tar all Muslims with the homophobe brush is incredibly WRONG we really have nothing more to discuss as you obviously do not actually understand progressive values of freedom and justice for ALL.  and treating people as individuals

And IF you dont want to BAN all Muslims.. What is the End goal of your point? as both me and ben can see the way it ends is with the sounds of Jackboots dragging families away to 'showers' .. for someone so aware of the jewish situation in ww2... i should not have to explain why we do not take ONE step down that road!!

didge wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:We are not going around in circle YOU are failing to accept that Justice is NOT either/or it is not given to one group at the detriment of another.

You defend the Homosexual not by fighting the Muslim but by fighting the homophobe.

If you cant see that to tar all Muslims with the homophobe brush is incredibly WRONG we really have nothing more to discuss as you obviously do not actually understand progressive values of freedom and justice for ALL.  and treating people as individuals

And IF you dont want to BAN all Muslims.. What is the End goal of your point? as both me and ben can see the way it ends is with the sounds of Jackboots dragging families away to 'showers' .. for someone so aware of the jewish situation in ww2... i should not have to explain why we do not take ONE step down that road!!

You have done it again
I have never claimed all Muslims are homophobes.
What did you fail to understand how Wahhabism is a neoconservative literal reading of the Islamic texts, based on absolutes, which does not allow for adaption?
As to what needs to be done.
The problem is a extreme belief, one that is growing. Thus you have to tackle the source.
Stop all Wahhabist funding and influence in religious schools and Mosques. Even better would be to make all schools secular and from a neutral position Unite with other Muslims to help combat the spread of this Wahhabism. help combat the poor narratives of hate being spread. educate how the major extremist groups are all adherents to Wahhabism. Showing its link to terrorism, which fundamentally effects other Muslims be classed alongside them. So its in the interest of Muslims also to tackle the spread of wahhabism and denounce it
There are many things that can be done

But again, stop making unfounded accusations I have never made.
You are not addressing the points when you do so

veya_victaous wrote:

didge wrote:


You have done it again
I have never claimed all Muslims are homophobes.
What did you fail to understand how Wahhabism is a neoconservative literal reading of the Islamic texts, based on absolutes, which does not allow for adaption?
As to what needs to be done.
The problem is a extreme belief, one that is growing. Thus you have to tackle the source.
Stop all Wahhabist funding and influence in religious schools and Mosques. Even better would be to make all schools secular and from a neutral position Unite with other Muslims to help combat the spread of this Wahhabism. help combat the poor narratives of hate being spread. educate how the major extremist groups are all adherents to Wahhabism. Showing its link to terrorism, which fundamentally effects other Muslims be classed alongside them. So its in the interest of Muslims also to tackle the spread of wahhabism and denounce it
There are many things that can be done

But again, stop making unfounded accusations I have never made.
You are not addressing the points when you do so

if that is your goal Be quiet cause you are the Opposite of helping

Your posts DO not come off as 'Moderates are acceptable' they come off as BURN ALL Muslims START AN NEW CURSADE.. So If you are trying to not encourage Fundamental extermism Stop posting extermist rants.

try reading your posts before you post them and imagine you are a mulsim person that's defualt position is the islam is good, and they DONT think Whabbist are Real Muslims at all, just like Most Christians Dont think the Abortions bombers are Real Christians.
So you have this long as rant from a white dude that puts you in the same boats as a group You do not even recognise as being the same religion as yourself... and you think they are going to listen and accept your opinon ..Why?

If logic converted people there would be no religions.

Plus Based on your own rules for exterme beliefs, i would tackle you, as a I am doing, as your beleifs are exterme to say the least.

veya_victaous wrote:We are not going around in circle YOU are failing to accept that Justice is NOT either/or it is not given to one group at the detriment of another.

You defend the Homosexual not by fighting the Muslim but by fighting the homophobe.

If you cant see that to tar all Muslims with the homophobe brush is incredibly WRONG we really have nothing more to discuss as you obviously do not actually understand progressive values of freedom and justice for ALL.  and treating people as individuals

And IF you dont want to BAN all Muslims.. What is the End goal of your point? as both me and ben can see the way it ends is with the sounds of Jackboots dragging families away to 'showers' .. for someone so aware of the jewish situation in ww2... i should not have to explain why we do not take ONE step down that road!!

sassy wrote:Because it's Europe, and they have just about the same laws, that's why, or they would.  They make sure the place is full greasy spoon cafes etc and chips with everything.

sassy wrote:Do the Spanish, French, Portugese etc go on about the Brits.  Nope, they accept that people like to live with people they feel comfortable with, and most of them never learn the language.  One rule for us and another for Muslims, sounds about right.