Europe on the Brink

by Guest Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:04 pm

Europe appears to be falling apart.

Last week, an ISIS cell killed dozens of people and wounded hundreds more in twin suicide bombings at the Brussels airport and in the Maalbeek metro station, and the following weekend, a proposed March Against Fear was cancelled due to “security concerns,” which no doubt amped up the city’s anxiety even more. On Sunday, riot police clashed with a mob of hundreds of angry men wearing black, some with shaved heads, who stormed into the square carrying an anti-ISIS banner and screaming Nazi-like slogans.
“It was important for us to be here symbolically,” a woman named Samia Orosemane said, but “there were lots of men who were here and doing the Nazi salute, shouting 'death to Arabs,' and so we weren't able to get through.” Adam Liston told the BBC that the atmosphere in the square was “really positive” at first. “Then a bunch of skinheads just turned up, marched into the square, and started a major confrontation with the peace protesters. They got in the face of the protesters and police. They set off flares and chanted and it was getting quite ugly.”

There were no violent Nazi-like demonstrations in the United States against Arabs or Muslims, not even on or after September 11, 2001, when ten times as many people were murdered in the most spectacular terrorist attack in world history. But as Tom Wolfe famously put it, the dark night of fascism is forever descending on the United States and landing in Europe. We can only imagine the violent convulsions that will wrack the continent if something on the scale of 9/11 ever happens on that side of the ocean. And it’s more likely to happen over there in the short and medium term than it is over here. Europe is already under much greater attack than the United States, and it has a far larger problem with Islamic radicalization.There are five times as many Muslims in the United States as there are in Belgium, but the United States is not a hotbed of homegrown Islamic extremism. We’ve suffered some acts of terrorism since 9/11—the mass shooting in San Bernardino, the Boston Marathon bombing and the massacre at Fort Hood. If American Muslims and European Muslims were equally predisposed to jihadism, we’d experience roughly five times as many attacks.

But we don’t, mostly because Muslims feel more at home in the United States than they do in Europe.
The United States has always been better at assimilation than Europe. Ours is a nation of immigrants and always has been. Most of us on this side of the Atlantic have a civic identity, but Europeans, by and large, still have a national blood-and-soil identity.
Americans don’t want immigrants to self-segregate in cultural ghettoes. It happens to a certain extent anyway, but less so than in Europe. We not only welcome immigrants, we expect and encourage them to join us rather than live separately alongside us. In Europe, by contrast, Muslim immigrants are forever “the other.” American Muslims are also more interested in joining mainstream American culture. Those who immigrate here must go through a rigorous selection process, and they can’t expect to just show up and live on state benefits in perpetuity like they can in Europe. They must work hard and assimilate to some extent, or they’ll fail. They have, on average, done a very good job of it. American Muslims are actually a little richer on average than the general population. European Muslims, by contrast, are much poorer on average.

This is not, however, the reason Europe has a bigger problem with Islamic radicalization. Poverty is not a trigger for religious fanaticism. Islamic terrorists tend to be educated and financially successful. “Economists have found a link between low incomes and property crimes,” David R. Francis writesat The National Bureau of Economic Research. “But in most cases terrorism is less like property crime and more like a violent form of political engagement.” And political engagement requires education and the ability and wherewithal to engage in activities beyond mere economic survival. In that sense, American Muslims fit the terrorist profile better than European Muslims.

Yet Europe is still having more trouble.
Arab Muslims born and raised in the United States are just as American as I am, but Arab Muslims born and raised in Belgium will never be Belgian. They may or may not be citizens of the state of Belgium, but they won’t have a Belgian identity. A Belgian identity scarcely even exists. Most Belgians identify first and foremost as Dutch-speaking Flemish or French-speaking Walloons.

A Pew Research Center survey of 55,000 American Muslims in 2011 found that they are “largely assimilated, happy with their lives, and moderate with respect to many of the issues that have divided Muslims and Westerners around the world… On balance, they believe that Muslims coming to the U.S. should try and adopt American customs, rather than trying to remain distinct from the larger society. And by nearly two-to-one (63%-32%) Muslim Americans do not see a conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.”
A majority of American Muslims view themselves as Americans first, rather than as Muslims first, whereas 81 percent of British Muslims view themselves as Muslims first. French Muslims are as likely as American Muslims to identify first with the nation-state they live in, but France is the only country in Europe that has seriously attempted to nurture a French identity among its immigrant populations.
Europe’s Muslim population feels far more alienated from the general society, so it's easier for a violent anti-Western ideology to find traction. And when trouble erupts, as it is now, Europeans react far more harshly than Americans do.
“The Trump-Cruz police state exists,” Eli Lake writes in Bloomberg. “It's called France.”

Imagine if Ted Cruz or Donald Trump proposed a policy to monitor thousands of Muslim citizens even if they had no specific ties to terrorist groups. Then, for good measure, they called for a new law to allow the police to search the homes of suspected terrorists without a warrant and to place terror suspects under house arrest without a court order.
Sounds like a nightmare. One can imagine the indignation. Pundits and politicians of good conscience would intone against the politics of fear. Some on the right would respond that political correctness should not be a barrier to counterterrorism.
But what I have just described is not a Republican sound bite. Rather, it is the current counterterrorism posture of France.

France’s policies were put in place by a left-wing socialist government. It’s not hard to imagine the far-right shoving France over the edge if it ever wins power—and it might if Europe continues to be terrorized. And Europe will continue to be terrorized. In The Observer, John R. Schindler argues that Europe now has so many ISIS-supporting extremists in its midst that it isn’t facing mere terrorism any longer, that the problem has been upgraded, if that’s the right word, to a guerrilla war or an insurgency.

The threat is now so great, with Europe possessing thousands of homegrown radicals bent on murder, that mere spying cannot prevent all attacks “left of boom” as the professionals put it.
Maintaining 24/7 human and technical surveillance on just one target requires something like two dozen operatives, and even the larger European security services can effectively watch only a few handfuls of would-be terrorists at one time.
[…]
Simply put, Europe has imported a major threat into its countries, one that did not exist a couple generations ago. It can be endlessly debated why this problem has grown so serious so quickly—for instance, how much is due to Europe’s failures at assimilation of immigrants versus the innate aggression of some of those immigrants (and their children)?—but that the threat is large and growing can no longer be denied by the sentient. We should expect more guerrilla-like attacks like [in] Brussels yesterday: moderate in scale, relatively easy to plan and execute against soft targets, and utterly terrifying to the public. At some point, angry Europeans, fed up with their supine political class, will begin to strike back, and that’s when the really terrifying scenarios come into play. European security services worry deeply about the next Anders Breivik targeting not fellow Europeans, but Muslim migrants. “We’re just one Baruch Goldstein away from all-out war,” explained a senior EU terrorism official, citing the American-born Israeli terrorist, fed up with Palestinian violence, who walked into a Hebron mosque in 1994, guns blazing, and murdered 29 innocent Muslims.
When that violence comes, a practically disarmed Europe will be all but powerless to stop it.

Americans won’t likely ever forget how the supposedly “sophisticated” European opinion-makers said America’s chickens were coming home to roost when Al Qaeda destroyed the World Trade Center, and how we—for one brain-dead reason or another—had it coming.
I wonder what Europeans think of that attitude now.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/europe-brink

Some interesting points and some to be learnt on integration, and it does speak rightly on the narratives of hate finding traction within Europe. Which he places European policies on being too tough, I believe it has been because actually we have been far too soft. Problems have arisen because on enclaves of cities having many of the same people settle en mass into one area, thus creating a situation that is near impossible for assimilation. Because they are not living really with the people of the country but as a small nation within a nation. So fundamentally fault does lie with how they have been settled within areas in high numbers, denying a chance to assimilate. Its easy to go off the US which is far bigger than Europe with half its population and whilst the US has more Muslims than Belgium, the numbers in Europe dwarf that of the US. Its true they have assimilated better in the US but again because they are far more widespread and given a focus of identity. Its like here the focus is played on British and not English, which is wrong within the English land area.

But again there is still one underlying factor, that is the religion itself before at the very core of this problem with how easily it can make a Muslim turn easily into believing the most barbaric views from a normal day active life. This is blatantly ignored and all because of a fear of offending when it should be openly and honestly spoken about how no matter whether extremist Muslim or Non extremist Muslims within Europe, many share a belief the West and the US is out to destroy Islam and countless disinformation and hate circulated and conspiracies helps fueled this daily. With again little being done to combat this. No matter how well a a peaceful version of Islams taught, this fails, when people hold views learnt from circulating hateful narratives. To even blame wrongs done to other Muslims in the world further makes this situation even more problematic, because we just do not see a replication of other groups who have suffered political and socioeconomically issues where they live. Again we see even within the Middle east Christians, Druze, Yazidis and countless other minorities suffer countless persecution and atrocities done to them, but where is the revenge or violence offered in return from those living there or their fellow believers in the west? Again for centuries African Americans have suffered the worst hardships and we see little evidence of terrorism. So clearly there is a fundamental pull from the Islamic teaching itself and its time we stopped ignoring that and talked openly and honestly about it.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:42 am

very accurate article

and highlights why i think Europe is incompetent as Australia is even better at assimilating new migrants that the USA. everything the author said doubled (cause we think their race relations are pretty crappy too)

Example from OP

Arab Muslims born and raised in the United States are just as American as I am, but Arab Muslims born and raised in Belgium will never be Belgian. They may or may not be citizens of the state of Belgium, but they won’t have a Belgian identity. A Belgian identity scarcely even exists. Most Belgians identify first and foremost as Dutch-speaking Flemish or French-speaking Walloons.

Primitive Hill shepherds think of themselves as Flemish and Wallons. because some archaic backwards bullshit Belgium is such a minor irrelevant nation that it is just laughable that they think anyone would consider dividing them further. most of the world just thinks of them a French anyway.

they can’t even really manage a small colony, what hope do they have of making a super colony, the EU is destine to fail due to the primitive and obsolete minds of its citizens
Clearly this is evolution like the ants that could not adapt to the create and join super colonies the only future for Primitive hill shepherds that think of themselves as Flemish and Wallons is extinction.

by 'Wolfie Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:58 am

veya_victaous wrote:
......................................................

Primitive Hill shepherds think of themselves as Flemish and Wallons. because some archaic backwards bullshit Belgium is such a minor irrelevant nation that it is just laughable that they think anyone would consider dividing them further. most of the world just thinks of them a French anyway.

they can’t even really manage a small colony, what hope do they have of making a super colony, the EU is destine to fail due to the primitive and obsolete minds of its citizens
Clearly this is evolution like the ants that could not adapt to the create and join super colonies the only future for Primitive hill shepherds that think of themselves as Flemish and Wallons is extinction.

TOO true, veya !!!

Australia, Canada and the USA all have greater populations and national wealth; while the USA also has states - even a city (New York) - that have larger economies..

Belgium depends on big brothers France and Holland for their national defence.
By rights, Belgium should probably be a French state, rather than an independant country ?

I WONDER how the EU's richest members - Germany, France, the UK - feel about the smaller countries and principalities, like Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Monaco and Latvia, having proportionately more votes ?

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:10 am

Well after the two idiots of Australia just asked for a new holocaust of people who are not primitive and failed to even address a single point lets get back to some reality, where again Muslims in America are not bunched into enclaves as they have been in Europe and the US has a tiny Muslim population that is again tiny compared to Europe and its more a recent population than Europe. That means the problems have not been faced yet where the population is less than 1%, in Britain alone its 5%, in Belgium its 5%, where in some areas that number jumps dramatically to 25%. So like I say back to the world of reality and not the only place where they are primitive and miles behind the EU with progression being as they still have not even been able to offer marriage equality yet.

Some interesting points and some to be learnt on integration, and it does speak rightly on the narratives of hate finding traction within Europe. Which he places European policies on being too tough, I believe it has been because actually we have been far too soft. Problems have arisen because on enclaves of cities having many of the same people settle en mass into one area, thus creating a situation that is near impossible for assimilation. Because they are not living really with the people of the country but as a small nation within a nation. So fundamentally fault does lie with how they have been settled within areas in high numbers, denying a chance to assimilate. Its easy to go off the US which is far bigger than Europe with half its population and whilst the US has more Muslims than Belgium, the numbers in Europe dwarf that of the US. Its true they have assimilated better in the US but again because they are far more widespread and given a focus of identity. Its like here the focus is played on British and not English, which is wrong within the English land area.

But again there is still one underlying factor, that is the religion itself before at the very core of this problem with how easily it can make a Muslim turn easily into believing the most barbaric views from a normal day active life. This is blatantly ignored and all because of a fear of offending when it should be openly and honestly spoken about how no matter whether extremist Muslim or Non extremist Muslims within Europe, many share a belief the West and the US is out to destroy Islam and countless disinformation and hate circulated and conspiracies helps fueled this daily. With again little being done to combat this. No matter how well a a peaceful version of Islams taught, this fails, when people hold views learnt from circulating hateful narratives. To even blame wrongs done to other Muslims in the world further makes this situation even more problematic, because we just do not see a replication of other groups who have suffered political and socioeconomically issues where they live. Again we see even within the Middle east Christians, Druze, Yazidis and countless other minorities suffer countless persecution and atrocities done to them, but where is the revenge or violence offered in return from those living there or their fellow believers in the west? Again for centuries African Americans have suffered the worst hardships and we see little evidence of terrorism. So clearly there is a fundamental pull from the Islamic teaching itself and its time we stopped ignoring that and talked openly and honestly about it.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:56 am

yes didge you are VERY primitive

And No the jump to 25% in Some area is ACTUALLY YOUR FAULT you government persistent failure to assimilate anyone (the dumb fucks can’t even turn Flemish and Wallons into
Belgian. Evolution is calling their name)
Also the constant fawning to cowards, the fact that people like stormee and tommy are listened too at all, shows that my statement is 100% accurate and the real cause is the primitive nature of too many Europeans. Which is exactly the same issue you say is the case in Muslim nations. As Aussies we can clearly see this is the pot calling the kettle black as your governments are just as bad for putting pointless tradition (even detrimental tradition) over logic and reason

SO in Summary
The underlying factor is Primitive Hill shepherds that constantly fight because they cannot fathom a world beyond their little hill
Way too many of them in Europe and the middle east.
AND they are 2 'sub-continents' that have not undergone the 'renewal' like the new world.
I mean even using 'Holocaust'? Why not say 'Anglo settlement' it was much more destructive and caused much greater persecution of races without reason. And is much more meaningful globally than a reference to the last time the Hill shepherds of Europe got too rowdy.

And Europe has a higher popualtion on Muslims cause they are your NEIGHBOURS
like you have Fuck all Mexicans OR Polynesians OR Asian (Not Indians, they are not asians) while we have high number of our respective Neighbours.

If you where not a bunch of hill shepherds then the Nation of Euorpe would share a boarder with the 'United middle eastern nation'.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:03 am

Didge wrote:Well after the two idiots of Australia just asked for a new holocaust of people who are not primitive and failed to even address a single point lets get back to some reality, where again Muslims in America are not bunched into enclaves as they have been in Europe and the US has a tiny Muslim population that is again tiny compared to Europe and its more a recent population than Europe. That means the problems have not been faced yet where the population is less than 1%, in Britain alone its 5%, in Belgium its 5%, where in some areas that number jumps dramatically to 25%. So like I say back to the world of reality and not the only place where they are primitive and miles behind the EU with progression being as they still have not even been able to offer marriage equality yet.

Some interesting points and some to be learnt on integration, and it does speak rightly on the narratives of hate finding traction within Europe. Which he places European policies on being too tough, I believe it has been because actually we have been far too soft. Problems have arisen because on enclaves of cities having many of the same people settle en mass into one area, thus creating a situation that is near impossible for assimilation. Because they are not living really with the people of the country but as a small nation within a nation. So fundamentally fault does lie with how they have been settled within areas in high numbers, denying a chance to assimilate. Its easy to go off the US which is far bigger than Europe with half its population and whilst the US has more Muslims than Belgium, the numbers in Europe dwarf that of the US. Its true they have assimilated better in the US but again because they are far more widespread and given a focus of identity. Its like here the focus is played on British and not English, which is wrong within the English land area.

But again there is still one underlying factor, that is the religion itself before at the very core of this problem with how easily it can make a Muslim turn easily into believing the most barbaric views from a normal day active life. This is blatantly ignored and all because of a fear of offending when it should be openly and honestly spoken about how no matter whether extremist Muslim or Non extremist Muslims within Europe, many share a belief the West and the US is out to destroy Islam and countless disinformation and hate circulated and conspiracies helps fueled this daily. With again little being done to combat this. No matter how well a a peaceful version of Islams taught, this fails, when people hold views learnt from circulating hateful narratives. To even blame wrongs done to other Muslims in the world further makes this situation even more problematic, because we just do not see a replication of other groups who have suffered political and socioeconomically issues where they live. Again we see even within the Middle east Christians, Druze, Yazidis and countless other minorities suffer countless persecution and atrocities done to them, but where is the revenge or violence offered in return from those living there or their fellow believers in the west? Again for centuries African Americans have suffered the worst hardships and we see little evidence of terrorism. So clearly there is a fundamental pull from the Islamic teaching itself and its time we stopped ignoring that and talked openly and honestly about it.

Which proves Veya cannot read my comments as per usual and now its actually my fault and not governments

The ignorance that must be taught in Australian schools must be astounding or simple someone just needs to go to specsavers

Now either address my point where again the Muslim population in Australia is small and problematic also, shows how far removed Veya is on understanding this growing issue as well.
Plus the fact you are spouting some of thw worst racism I have ever seen offered towards people by claiming they are primitave, when they are leaps and bounds ahead of Australian in progression
So if that makes the EU primitive, then the Aussies based on the racist view of Veya must be pondslime

The fact you have to enlarge all your writing speaks volumes how you lack confidence in your own views

Now I have to go to work

Last chance to address my points many of which you have failed to even counter

by Major Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:29 am

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:Well after the two idiots of Australia just asked for a new holocaust of people who are not primitive and failed to even address a single point lets get back to some reality, where again Muslims in America are not bunched into enclaves as they have been in Europe and the US has a tiny Muslim population that is again tiny compared to Europe and its more a recent population than Europe. That means the problems have not been faced yet where the population is less than 1%, in Britain alone its 5%, in Belgium its 5%, where in some areas that number jumps dramatically to 25%. So like I say back to the world of reality and not the only place where they are primitive and miles behind the EU with progression being as they still have not even been able to offer marriage equality yet.

Some interesting points and some to be learnt on integration, and it does speak rightly on the narratives of hate finding traction within Europe. Which he places European policies on being too tough, I believe it has been because actually we have been far too soft. Problems have arisen because on enclaves of cities having many of the same people settle en mass into one area, thus creating a situation that is near impossible for assimilation. Because they are not living really with the people of the country but as a small nation within a nation. So fundamentally fault does lie with how they have been settled within areas in high numbers, denying a chance to assimilate. Its easy to go off the US which is far bigger than Europe with half its population and whilst the US has more Muslims than Belgium, the numbers in Europe dwarf that of the US. Its true they have assimilated better in the US but again because they are far more widespread and given a focus of identity. Its like here the focus is played on British and not English, which is wrong within the English land area.

But again there is still one underlying factor, that is the religion itself before at the very core of this problem with how easily it can make a Muslim turn easily into believing the most barbaric views from a normal day active life. This is blatantly ignored and all because of a fear of offending when it should be openly and honestly spoken about how no matter whether extremist Muslim or Non extremist Muslims within Europe, many share a belief the West and the US is out to destroy Islam and countless disinformation and hate circulated and conspiracies helps fueled this daily. With again little being done to combat this. No matter how well a a peaceful version of Islams taught, this fails, when people hold views learnt from circulating hateful narratives. To even blame wrongs done to other Muslims in the world further makes this situation even more problematic, because we just do not see a replication of other groups who have suffered political and socioeconomically issues where they live. Again we see even within the Middle east Christians, Druze, Yazidis and countless other minorities suffer countless persecution and atrocities done to them, but where is the revenge or violence offered in return from those living there or their fellow believers in the west? Again for centuries African Americans have suffered the worst hardships and we see little evidence of terrorism. So clearly there is a fundamental pull from the Islamic teaching itself and its time we stopped ignoring that and talked openly and honestly about it.

Which proves Veya cannot read my comments as per usual and now its actually my fault and not governments

The ignorance that must be taught in Australian schools must be astounding or simple someone just needs to go to specsavers

Now either address my point where again the Muslim population in Australia is small and problematic also, shows how far removed Veya is on understanding this growing issue as well.
Plus the fact you are spouting some of thw worst racism I have ever seen offered towards people by claiming they are primitave, when they are leaps and bounds ahead of Australian in progression
So if that makes the EU primitive, then the Aussies based on the racist view of Veya must be pondslime

The fact you have to enlarge all your writing speaks volumes how you lack confidence in your own views

Now I have to go to work

Last chance to address my points many of which you have failed to even counter

Have a good one, Didge.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:02 am

Thank you Stomree, you too

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:32 am

Veya's being racist again I see.

The whole paragraph about Muslims not being Belgian was completely pointless if there's no such thing as a Belgian "identity". Is Mr Totten an expert on Belgium - has he even been there or met anyone from there?

As for the US, well all that could change if Mr Trump becomes President, and then Mr Totten will be eating his words ...

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:40 am

pfft it's not racist it's true
Europe on the Brink 2787774761

or is the EU 'working'
Europe on the Brink 2794048296

And Didge is just pushing blame on Islam for the failing of the Belgian gov't (and pretty much all the other European gov't) thus he is part of the problem when it comes to the failure to assimilate migrants. (although i probably should have been more specific that it was addressed at all Europeans)

Besides we still have over 2% but that is in part because many become secular when born here and don't continue on as Muslims or they marry a non-Muslim. the point is you (as in Europe) are so bad at assimilating that even existing nations largely haven't assimilated and the people still draw to primitive old tribes. I will be fair in saying the UK has been better at this then others but still Scotland considered independence Europe on the Brink 4214183177

while 25% of Aussies are born overseas and 45% of Australian born citizens have at least one parent born overseas. In areas like Blacktown it is 45% born overseas and 75% with a parent from overseas..

As i said the article really explains why i hold the opinion i do..
I was born in a successful multicultural society, I have 1 parent born overseas and I was born and raised in one of the most multicultural areas of the nation. So when people say "it doesn't work" I hear "we are in competent and obsolete"...
Cause it does work, I know it does because it is the story of my life. I am one of the individuals that make the statistics that it does.
Europe on the Brink 2023022481

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:44 am

I will give you the point about trump though Laughing

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:48 am

veya_victaous wrote:pfft it's not racist it's true

or is the EU 'working'

And Didge is just pushing blame on Islam for the failing of the Belgian gov't (and pretty much all the other European gov't) thus he is part of the problem when it comes to the failure to assimilate migrants. (although i probably should have been more specific that it was addressed at all Europeans)

Besides we still have over 2% but that is in part because many become secular when born here and don't continue on as Muslims or they marry a non-Muslim. the point is you (as in Europe) are so bad at assimilating that even existing nations largely haven't assimilated and the people still draw to primitive old tribes. I will be fair in saying the UK has been better at this then others but still Scotland considered independence while 25% of Aussies are born overseas and 45% of Australian born citizens have at least one parent born overseas. In areas like Blacktown it is 45% born overseas and 75% with a parent from overseas..

As i said the article really explains why i hold the opinion i do..
I was born in a successful multicultural society, I have 1 parent born overseas and I was born and raised in one of the most multicultural areas of the nation. So when people say "it doesn't work" I hear "we are in competent and obsolete"...
Cause it does work, I know it does because it is the story of my life. I am one of the individuals that make the statistics that it does.

You just proved you are the worst racist on this forum how you disingenuously refer to people, because clearly of the rife racism found within Australia you are part of the issue. Where again you go of the US which only has 0.8% Muslims, which also matters where these Muslims come from and where many fled Islamist regimes like, Africa Iran and Lebanon etc. Where the Uk has a high contingent of Pakistani's who a large proportion follow the Wahhabist school of Islam. So again it shows how just looking at the numbers of Muslims is flawed when it fails to go off where many come from and why they have come to a nation. There is a already a growing problem with extremism in Australia and for you to even ignore this when it is only at 2% shows how far removed you are from understanding a growing issue there. Again none of this addresses any of the points made on why again we see countless other minorities also suffer under political and socioeconomically issues turn to terrorism?
This is what you have failed to address, as being as countless black people in the US and for example Christians in the Middle East have suffered appalling persecution and atrocities, we fail to see any significant rise of terrorism by these minorities. So whilst social issue might play a factor its fundamentally ignoring the glaring issues of Islamic doctrine and narratives of hate, which at no point have you spoken of. So clearly the claim of integration of being a major factor is in fact a minor factor, as why again would law abiding citizens turn and believe the most barabric beliefs, they can rape and enslave young girls?

Also as to assimilation in Australia?

That is a crock of shit

http://alltogethernow.org.au/racism/

by eddie Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:14 am

Why can't you all debate without calling each other racist? Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:20 am

eddie wrote:Why can't you all debate without calling each other racist?

Because calling people in Belgium "hill shepherds" and saying that they should be extinct is clearly racist.

by eddie Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:23 am

I rarely use that word.
I wait for someone who's actually RACIST until I say they're racist.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:25 am

eddie wrote:I rarely use that word.
I wait for someone who's actually RACIST until I say they're racist.

Perhaps you should tell Veya that then - he constantly calls British people racist, even though he's displaying those tendencies himself.

by Major Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:34 am

I NEVER call anyone a 'racist', people are far worse things than allegedly being 'racist' which is a word I do not accept anyway BECAUSE it is MOSTLY used just to try to get the sob sisters, weak kneed pc brigade and traitors to this country on their side in a argument.

I am a proud patriot as I can be..

by nicko Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Veya is jealous because the ENGLISH won the first prize in the lottery of life,and the Australians came nowhere. [I know that's daft but----------]

by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:59 pm

Australia has a strict points based system on immigration and those coming in with required skills and who want to work and who are filling available jobs do not need any 'assimilation'...!!!

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:50 pm

@tommy
we still take lots of refugees,
plus it is not as strict as you think it has many many loop holes.
and it does require effort to encourage assimulation.
people with your opinon were more common they were once the majorty
but now we are 45 years into the supposed 'social experiment'
and almost everyone (over 85%) acknowledges the nation is better and stronge for it.

if it were easy, it would not be worth doing Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:10 pm

Bollocks . Refugees are housed offshore...

by Victorismyhero Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:24 pm

given the racism figures ..(at least 20%) i dont think veya should be shouting so loud about what a scucess integration or multiculturalism has been over there

let alone the tardy pace of reform vis gay rights over there

by nicko Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:43 pm

Refugees In boats are turned back by the Australian Navy. Did you not know that you racist shit?

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:45 pm

nicko wrote:Refugees In boats are turned back by the Australian Navy. Did you not know that you racist shit?

Nicko, he wants you to bite,
Do not give him that satisfaction
he fails to understand he comes off by far more racist than anyone here arguing off a view to people being inferior
Its a very daft and poor double standard, rendering his view not only moot but irrational

by nicko Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:49 pm

Sorry but he's a racist cnut who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, he also thinks he knows more about our island than those who live here.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:50 pm

nicko wrote:Sorry but he's a racist cnut who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, he also thinks he knows more about our island than those who live here.

That's Aussies for you ... lol!

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:12 am

Lord Foul wrote:given the racism figures ..(at least 20%) i dont think veya should be shouting so loud about what a scucess integration or multiculturalism has been over there

let alone the tardy pace of reform vis gay rights over there

that is GOOD!!
the rate is almost 100% for Migrants to the UK

So yeah we are successful one of the most successful. Rolling Eyes

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:17 am

nicko wrote:Sorry but he's a racist cnut who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, he also thinks he knows more about our island than those who live here.

I know you lot are just whinges that say the sky is falling
YOU think you know the UKs relative poisiton internationally based on living a some backwater int he UK!!!
YOU fail to accept That We started doing it 20 years before you so IF you fail it is Because YOU are failures no other reason.

dont worry nicko you'll be dead soon you wont have to deal with the future like some of us do Rolling Eyes

only old pieces of shit seem to really have a problem with multicultralisnm
we just have to wait to you obsolete bunch meet fate.

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:46 am

veya_victaous wrote:
nicko wrote:Sorry but he's a racist cnut who thinks the sun shines out of his arse, he also thinks he knows more about our island than those who live here.

I know you lot are just whinges that say the sky is falling
YOU think you know the UKs relative poisiton internationally based on living a some backwater int he UK!!!
YOU fail to accept That We started doing it 20 years before you so IF you fail it is Because YOU are failures no other reason.

dont worry nicko you'll be dead soon you wont have to deal with the future like some of us do
only old pieces of shit seem to really have a problem with multicultralisnm
we just have to wait to you obsolete bunch meet fate.

you are no better than phil. That last para is disgusting, if it wasnt for the fact that even if I put you in the basement you would let yourself out again, thats where you would be...

you go too far veya.......

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:54 am

Why would you send him to the basement, even if you could, for one offense, when didge is given warning after warning but nothing happens to him?

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:58 am

old people will be dead soon Rolling Eyes

or is this another "we cant accept reality"????

look at the demographics
the quicker we tell the old to shut up
the quicker we can make the world better.
they wont even be in the future
so why do they insist on fucking it up.

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:59 am

why are you here stirring?

and clearly you dont understand the concept of proportionality.

didge has had his warnig...and he knows I mean it.....

what happened before I started modding is beyond my dealing with...

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:01 am

veya_victaous wrote:old people will be dead soon
or is this another "we cant accept reality"????

look at the demographics
the quicker we tell the old to shut up
the quicker we can make the world better.
they wont even be in the future
so why do they insist on fucking it up.

becasue it aint the "old" thats fucking it up...
its you younger "know it all know nowt "prats

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:04 am

Lord Foul wrote:why are you here stirring?

and clearly you dont understand the concept of proportionality.

didge has had his warnig...and he knows I mean it.....

what happened before I started modding is beyond my dealing with...

If you are referring to me, I'm talking about the number of warnings you gave him AFTER becoming a mod, and yet you deemed it appropriate to tell veya you would stick him in the basement for one offense, no warning given.

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:09 am

becasue

"you clearly dont understand the principle of "proportionality"

gloating over the impending demise of an elderly person is NO different to wishing it...

what didge did was wrong ...in many ways...

this is evil.....

AND....I DONT have to justify my actions to you...

only to Ben...

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:13 am

What didge did and said was evil as well. And why am I here? Totally contrariness because the pathetic little oik was boasting he had run me off.

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:20 am

I didnt ask why you were here

I asked why you were here ....stirring

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:25 am

Lord Foul wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:old people will be dead soon
or is this another "we cant accept reality"????

look at the demographics
the quicker we tell the old to shut up
the quicker we can make the world better.
they wont even be in the future
so why do they insist on fucking it up.

becasue it aint the "old" thats fucking it up...
its you younger "know it all know nowt "prats

umm NO
lets see what did nicko do at my age Ohh yeah He INVADED a free nation
you old ---- have not done anything good
there is a reason why the War generation was resepcted but the baby boomer Aren't

And Again REALITY old people don't accept is they have left a world in which people in my age group Dont expect to retire and dont really expect to be buried, we are sort pretty sure we will be reprocessed for food for the next generation...

Why should we have ANY respect for your opinons?

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:26 am

Lord Foul wrote:I didnt ask why you were here

I asked why you were here ....stirring

So pointing out different responces is stirring victor? I think not. You gave a response to veya, I questioned the legitimacy of that response in view of the one you made yesterday.

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:39 am

typical whigeing of the younger "want it all shoved up their arse" generation

bunch of spoilt brats raised by lefty influenced parents

no discipline
no work ethic
god most of you lot would die if you had to actually WORK for a living
your generation watched coronation st and "home and away, and expect real life to be like that...

you know...get married and move into a 4 bed house with all mod cons

no saving for a while and living with minimal 2nd hand furniture for a few years

no you would sooner rack up masive loans and cc debts

you have to eat specialised diets and go "jogging" becasue you dont do enough work to shift the fat off your lardy arses

and you live in a digital world where you would die if someone stole your smart phone, cant add two numbers together in your head becasue you have a calculator, and even if you can do so dont even know why the adding works and aare absolutely unable to do anything more complicated than add up your bar bill, becasue you cant work anything from first principles

god help you all if a major disater ever strikes....becasue you certainly wont be able to help yourself.....

Its up to you ...to reverse the POLITICAL problems that exist...and they are the only ones that stand in your way....

the financial resorces are there.....

YOU deal with the few greedy men....MOST of whom are actually NOT of my generation (though the greediest may well be)

its the one below MY generation who were taught that "greed is good" those that are now turning 45-50...save your ire for them

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:41 am

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:I didnt ask why you were here

I asked why you were here ....stirring

So pointing out different responces is stirring victor? I think not. You gave a response to veya, I questioned the legitimacy of that response in view of the one you made yesterday.

and I repeat...I dont have to justify my actions to you, only Ben....

got a problem with that...go whinge to ben.

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:43 am

Lol victor, if you think that is what veya is like you haven't been paying attention when he has spoken about what his life is like and what he has been doing.

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:45 am

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:

So pointing out different responces is stirring victor? I think not. You gave a response to veya, I questioned the legitimacy of that response in view of the one you made yesterday.

and I repeat...I dont have to justify my actions to you, only Ben....

got a problem with that...go whinge to ben.

I don't whinge Vic, I just keep on questioning

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:53 am

sassy wrote:Lol victor, if you think that is what veya is like you haven't been paying attention when he has spoken about what his life is like and what he has been doing.

since HE seems it fit to generalise an entire generation ...and whats more the WRONG generation, then I can do so too....

besides...take veyas tech toys off him and he'd cry

not to mention the fact he'd likely starve.....

I LIKE my tech......but I dont utterly depend on it

I can make a living with my hands, as can most of my generation....

and , given we were veyas age...by sheer labour too......some of us even did so all those years ago...

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:02 am

You didn't notice he said he's bought an old place in the outback he's clearing and doing up himself, snakes an all,

by Victorismyhero Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:10 am

and te relevence of the snakes?

and yes so what...

if thats what he's doing then clearly he doesnt have a problem with "finances" or has "found" the solution to how I got started...with an old run down place...did it up...sold it and moved on up...

BRAVO Rolling Eyes

he's also probably earning 10X what I was at the same age so in relative terms is no worse off...

inflation these days is purely an artificial concept, of concern only when interest rates are below inflation rates

and then ONLY to savers....

and I bet he aint mixing the concrete by hand Evil or Very Mad

nor milling timber by hand
(try riving planks of almost anything by hand...THEN you will know what hard work is)

OH no...the outback.....whatever will he do for a wifi signal???

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:41 am

Lord Foul wrote:typical whigeing of the younger "want it all shoved up their arse" generation

bunch of spoilt brats raised by lefty influenced parents

no discipline
no work ethic
god most of you lot would die if you had to actually WORK for a living
your generation watched coronation st and "home and away, and expect real life to be like that...

you know...get married and move into a 4 bed house with all mod cons

no saving for a while and living with minimal 2nd hand furniture for a few years

no you would sooner rack up masive loans and cc debts

you have to eat specialised diets and go "jogging" becasue you dont do enough work to shift the fat off your lardy arses

and you live in a digital world where you would die if someone stole your smart phone, cant add two numbers together in your head becasue you have a calculator, and even if you can do so dont even know why the adding works and aare absolutely unable to do anything more complicated than add up your bar bill, becasue you cant work anything from first principles

god help you all if a major disater ever strikes....becasue you certainly wont be able to help yourself.....

Its up to you ...to reverse the POLITICAL problems that exist...and they are the only ones that stand in your way....

the financial resorces are there.....

YOU deal with the few greedy men....MOST of whom are actually NOT of my generation (though the greediest may well be)

its the one below MY generation who were taught that "greed is good" those that are now turning 45-50...save your ire for them

LOL
got a job Before legally allowed to
have been employed since i was 14 (while still studying)
worked in factory making pallets and in kitchens.
put myself through university
No credit card ever.
I have debit now, to buy the house. but even then i saved a 25% deposit, over a years pre tax wages

And As sassy said I am Fixing a farm house in the middle of nowhere,
recently doing my own plumbing, no town water there so the roof is set up for rain catchment
that i store in tanks (2 x 10,000L)
I am connect to electricty grid, because my property generates electricty tha i sell back into the grid (common in the area)

no Phone lines or interent though, Not even mobile phone reception. (not that i have mobile data anyway, i spend enough time online don't need it in my pocket)

furniture is limited and the only things not 2nd hand is the microwave and mattress.

you really do have nothing on me victor.
I just skin and eat a snakes instead of rabbits. pirat

and i use a shovel not a gun tongue

As to Finances, well much like london it has become immpossible for workers to buy in Sydney.
It cost me the same as 2 bedroom apartment in blacktown an hour from the CBD and work.

Most people actually think I am crazy for doing it... but they don't understand amusing the gods.
And that Reminds Me I need to Ask Wolf about bee keeping, the gods have rewarded me with a natural bee hive pirat

by Ben Reilly Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:05 am

There were no violent Nazi-like demonstrations in the United States against Arabs or Muslims, not even on or after September 11, 2001, when ten times as many people were murdered in the most spectacular terrorist attack in world history. But as Tom Wolfe famously put it, Europeans are best summed up by a gif of Mr. Bean having a panic attack.

by Guest Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:16 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
There were no violent Nazi-like demonstrations in the United States against Arabs or Muslims, not even on or after September 11, 2001, when ten times as many people were murdered in the most spectacular terrorist attack in world history. But as Tom Wolfe famously put it, Europeans are best summed up by a gif of Mr. Bean having a panic attack.

Is that why they have been untold riots with the far right and African Americans in the US?

You see what the article fails to even answer is the fact the American white racists hate the Blacks more than they hate Muslims

That is because most Americans do not even know many Muslims, being as they only represent 0.8%

So again you need to understand these facts and answer again which all have failed to do

where again Muslims in America are not bunched into enclaves as they have been in Europe and the US has a tiny Muslim population that is again tiny compared to Europe and its more a recent population than Europe. That means the problems have not been faced yet where the population is less than 1%, in Britain alone its 5%, in Belgium its 5%, where in some areas that number jumps dramatically to 25%. So like I say back to the world of reality and not the only place where they are primitive and miles behind the EU with progression being as they still have not even been able to offer marriage equality yet.

Some interesting points and some to be learnt on integration, and it does speak rightly on the narratives of hate finding traction within Europe. Which he places European policies on being too tough, I believe it has been because actually we have been far too soft. Problems have arisen because on enclaves of cities having many of the same people settle en mass into one area, thus creating a situation that is near impossible for assimilation. Because they are not living really with the people of the country but as a small nation within a nation. So fundamentally fault does lie with how they have been settled within areas in high numbers, denying a chance to assimilate. Its easy to go off the US which is far bigger than Europe with half its population and whilst the US has more Muslims than Belgium, the numbers in Europe dwarf that of the US. Its true they have assimilated better in the US but again because they are far more widespread and given a focus of identity. Its like here the focus is played on British and not English, which is wrong within the English land area.

But again there is still one underlying factor, that is the religion itself before at the very core of this problem with how easily it can make a Muslim turn easily into believing the most barbaric views from a normal day active life. This is blatantly ignored and all because of a fear of offending when it should be openly and honestly spoken about how no matter whether extremist Muslim or Non extremist Muslims within Europe, many share a belief the West and the US is out to destroy Islam and countless disinformation and hate circulated and conspiracies helps fueled this daily. With again little being done to combat this. No matter how well a a peaceful version of Islams taught, this fails, when people hold views learnt from circulating hateful narratives. To even blame wrongs done to other Muslims in the world further makes this situation even more problematic, because we just do not see a replication of other groups who have suffered political and socioeconomically issues where they live. Again we see even within the Middle east Christians, Druze, Yazidis and countless other minorities suffer countless persecution and atrocities done to them, but where is the revenge or violence offered in return from those living there or their fellow believers in the west? Again for centuries African Americans have suffered the worst hardships and we see little evidence of terrorism. So clearly there is a fundamental pull from the Islamic teaching itself and its time we stopped ignoring that and talked openly and honestly about it.

by 'Wolfie Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:51 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Why can't you all debate without calling each other racist?

Because calling people in Belgium "hill shepherds" and saying that they should be extinct is clearly racist.

Since WHEN have Belgians been considered a "race" ???

OR Jews, Muslims or Brit's, for that matter..

Didge, Tommy and Stormee, as examples, may like to keep on trying to give the term "racist" a new and broader definition to fit their own personal meanings to support their indiividual fascist agendas..

BUT simply wishing to do so, doesn't make it so..

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