UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed)

by Guest Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:29 am

Argentina's government celebrated on Monday a decision by a UN commission expanding its maritime territory in the South Atlantic Ocean by 35 per cent to include the disputed Falkland Islands and beyond. The Argentine foreign ministry said that its waters had increased by 0.66 million square miles (1.7 million square kilometres) and the decision will be key in its dispute with Britain over the Islands. Argentina lost a brief, bloody 1982 war with Britain after Argentine troops seized the South Atlantic archipelago that Latin Americans call the Malvinas. The UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf sided with Argentina earlier this month, ratifying the country's 2009 report fixing the limit of its territory at 200 to 350 miles from its coast. "This is a historic occasion for Argentina because we've made a huge leap in the demarcation of the exterior limit of our continental shelf," Foreign Minister Susana Malcorra said. "This reaffirms our sovereignty rights over the resources of our continental shelf."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12206179/Argentina-celebrates-UN-decision-to-expand-its-maritime-territory-to-include-Falkland-Islands.html

Nothing to really be concerned about as UN resolutions count for jack shit
Its treaties between nations that are legally binding under international law
Britain can also Veto this as well
Unbelievable again this backward organisation denies the rights of the people who live there

by Guest Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:37 pm

David Cameron dismisses Argentina's claim to the waters surrounding the Falkland Islands
A United Nations commission has recommended that Argentina's maritime territory should be expanded across the South Atlantic Ocean, encompassing the Falkland Islands

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/12206454/David-Cameron-dismisses-Argentinas-claim-to-the-waters-surrounding-the-Falkland-Islands.html

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:30 pm

Argentina wants nothing that most nations don’t already have... $UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) C:\Users\gguillon\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001$
I see Didge want to let a Magic Choose Race have the right exerted it's will over the majority. different chosen race than normal but all his opinions seem to be centred around the idea that One Special group (determined by him) get to have ALL their unrealistic wishes granted while the majority go without.

and besides all these little tiny nations are impractical. Primitive and obsolete, they really have to accept reality that they can no longer exist (by product of homo sapiens evolution of super-colonies) as independent nations and must join large unions or federations.

Otherwise evolution offer the option of extinction it has already happened to several species of ants that failed to form super colonies while neighbouring ant species did. Humans are not magic we are the product of our environment and must adapt to like all other life forms

by Guest Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:33 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Argentina wants nothing that most nations don’t already have... $UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) C:\Users\gguillon\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001$
I see Didge want to let a Magic Choose Race have the right exerted it's will over the majority. different chosen race than normal but all his opinions seem to be centred around the idea that One Special group (determined by him) get to have ALL their unrealistic wishes granted while the majority go without.

and besides all these little tiny nations are impractical. Primitive and obsolete, they really have to accept reality that they can no longer exist (by product of homo sapiens evolution of super-colonies) as independent nations and must join large unions or federations.

Otherwise evolution offer the option of extinction it has already happened to several species of ants that failed to form super colonies while neighbouring ant species did. Humans are not magic we are the product of our environment and must adapt to like all other life forms

Its simple, the people on the island that live there have the right to self determination, not other colonialists in Argentina, hence the sham of their claim. This is people living on the Island, who wish and voted to have self determination.
Which surprise surprise you argue against
This is nothing about races, that is your invention here, this is about an ethnic group, that deem their nationality as British

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:35 pm

but Britain is just a state of Europe, so pretty dumb old world obsolete thinking on their behalf. Cool

the quicker fools on little islands are told to shut up and accept reality the better.
their Opinion of separation is just a silly and selfish as stormees.

homo sapiens evolution is continent spanning super-colonies and eventually, inevitable, single planetary governance.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:32 am

veya_victaous wrote:but Britain is just a state of Europe, so pretty dumb old world obsolete thinking on their behalf.

the quicker fools on little islands are told to shut up and accept reality the better.
their Opinion of separation is just a silly and selfish as stormees.

homo sapiens evolution is continent spanning super-colonies and eventually, inevitable, single planetary governance.

This is not about Britain again but the Falkland Islanders, which you want a load of Spanish Colonialists to deny the Islanders their self determination and you offer up no reason other than your blatant jealousy and hate of the British, when its do with the Falkland Islanders, making your views not only hilarious, irrelevant and so far removed from understanding a single thing here.
This has nothing to do with evolution but the rights of those living on the island, not those living hundreds of miles on a Spanish Colony.
The quicker you stop abusing the rights of the indigenous in your own country and offer up more than one place in your Government and catch up with the rest of the world with equality, then I shall listen to what you have to offer, as of yet you are behind Muslim majority countries at the moment

Ta

by nicko Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:31 am

Veya, still talking shit, and hating Brits as usual.

by Major Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:32 am

WE have a force capability to stop the Argiz, sink them if they enter the restricted zone.

by 'Wolfie Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:21 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:but Britain is just a state of Europe, so pretty dumb old world obsolete thinking on their behalf.

....................................................

.........................

The quicker you stop abusing the rights of the indigenous in your own country and offer up more than one place in your Government and catch up with the rest of the world with equality, then I shall listen to what you have to offer, as of yet you are behind Muslim majority countries at the moment

ONCE AGAIN the ridiculous little Dodger shows us just what a clueless fool he is !!!

"...abusing the rights of the indigenous..."
Just wtf is Dodge talking about ?

"...offer up more than one place..."
Where does Dodge get off making up such absolute lies ?
There are Aborigines at all levels of government down here -- they're able to stand for as many seats as they care to at every election.

"...you are behind Muslim majority countries at the moment."
Another outright falsehood, pure and simple, from the #1 habitual liar on this forum..

WHAT a pathetic little know-nothing fool the ol' Didge has become !!!

Evil or Very Mad

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:36 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Didge wrote:
.........................

The quicker you stop abusing the rights of the indigenous in your own country and offer up more than one place in your Government and catch up with the rest of the world with equality, then I shall listen to what you have to offer, as of yet you are behind Muslim majority countries at the moment

ONCE AGAIN the ridiculous little Dodger shows us just what a clueless fool he is !!!
Infantile response yet again

"...abusing the rights of the indigenous..."
Just wtf is Dodge talking about ?
You do abuse the indigenous as you are a barbaric European colonialists, former criminals. The Falkland islanders have been there for over 200 years.

"...offer up more than one place..."
Where does Dodge get off making up such absolute lies ?
There are Aborigines at all levels of government down here -- they're able to stand for as many seats as they care to at every election.
Only one Aboriginal in the main Government.
Bravo on that achievement and how many years has that taken
Australia has to be about the biggest racist shit-hole going

"...you are behind Muslim majority countries at the moment."
Another outright falsehood, pure and simple, from the #1 habitual liar on this forum..
Yes that is unfair, you are more on a par with Muslim majority nations when it comes to progression. Anyone can see that with your backward policies on refugees and immigration, lack of equal rights on marriage.

WHAT a pathetic little know-nothing fool the ol' Didge has become !!!
And you are nothing more than a pathetic little rat, who worms around this forum spouting your ignorant bullshit

Yes thanks for once again one of your ignorant idiot rants, that is all you a capable of, so let me educate that pea brain of yours.

So you want to deny the self Determination of the Falkland Islanders, the descendants of British colonialists, living there for over two centuries. To be handed over to Spanish Colonialists who have never lived on the Islands? Outstanding way to deny people their fundamental rights to self determination and Govern themselves. At the end of the day why should Argentina, a Spanish Colonist nation, just because its land mass is bigger have rights to an island over that of the people who actually live there? That is what it boils down to. I mean lets face it the UN as a body has ceased to be an effective and impartial body for decades, where no doubt countless South American money changed hands over those meant to be mediating over this dispute. Of which really does not matter because the UN and any resolutions made are not legally binding. Only treaties between nations are and if the Islanders do not agree and the British have the ability to veto any such resolution placed forward. This is nothing more than symbolic for the Spanish Colonialists to further use a tool to bully the Islanders with. What though is the worst part of your post is that you are not defending the self determination of the Islanders. I bet you were happy for Scotland to be independent with Self determination and yet now here deny the Falkland islanders their right to determination. All because you want a bunch of Spanish Colonialists to bully them into submission.

Lol lets see what else gibberish this idiot cretin bee another pond slime has to offer back with?

Or is it going to be yet more regressive left wing bullshit

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:50 am

It's interesting that Veya suddenly thinks that the majority should walk all over the minority, and that minorities should have no rights. He must have changed his mind about Aborigines and think that they should have no rights because they're in a minority in Australia. He's become a member of the far right!

He also appears to have something against countries which are smaller than Australia, and would like to see a few superstates. Perhaps he'd like to see Oceania become a reality, in which case Australia would just be a drop in the Ocean.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:53 am

Stormee wrote:WE have a force capability to stop the Argiz, sink them if they enter the restricted zone.

The UN has suddenly become a fan of warmongering by provoking the UK. I hope they get stuffed. Laughing

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:01 am

veya_victaous wrote:but Britain is just a state of Europe, so pretty dumb old world obsolete thinking on their behalf.

the quicker fools on little islands are told to shut up and accept reality the better.
their Opinion of separation is just a silly and selfish as stormees.

homo sapiens evolution is continent spanning super-colonies and eventually, inevitable, single planetary governance.

The UK is a Sovereign State. Didn't you learn anything at school? Perhaps you would have approved of Hitler's plan to take over Europe and establish a Nazi superstate.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It's interesting that Veya suddenly thinks that the majority should walk all over the minority, and that minorities should have no rights. He must have changed his mind about Aborigines and think that they should have no rights because they're in a minority in Australia. He's become a member of the far right!

He also appears to have something against countries which are smaller than Australia, and would like to see a few superstates. Perhaps he'd like to see Oceania become a reality, in which case Australia would just be a drop in the Ocean.

Well I support, supporting aboriginals both culturally through increased understanding and adoption of their 'base faith' AND financially through what are already existing payments and subsidies. We should spend more on infrastructure for rural and remote Australia which is where 'aboriginal majority' communities are, and where there is currently an under-supply of public services. I don't support splitting up Australia in to smaller weaker nations for anyone.
does that make me right wing? confused

And 100% support the concept of Oceania or Australpacifica or Australasia Neutral

we should formally unionize with New Zealand first. make them 2 states North and South island (joining our existing 6 states and we should make the Northern Territory formally a state too)
After that either the pacific islands or Papua New Guinea
I think that is where the EU went wrong scratch

it tried to get everyone in one big swoop, i think it is more workable to join a couple of nations at a time

as to super states... it is inevitable, Neutral

So it is not about supporting it...
is about taking action to make the most of the situation
(as generally life does and is the driver of evolution)
Basically...you can fight the tides or surf them
UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) Boy_on_shark_surfing-wide_zps2ce42922

UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) Boy_on_shark_surfing-wide_zps2ce42922

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:03 am

Great what has that got to do with the self determination of the Falkland islanders?

You want to deny them their right to Govern their lands and cede also territorial waters to some Spanish Colonialists bullies based on them having a larger country and nothing more

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:06 am

I see Didge is back to his usual ignorant divisive ramblings in his vain attempts to draw Aussies into the same dire circumstances as the tiny pseudo-nations of Europe.

UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 2981866455

UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 2981866455

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:08 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It's interesting that Veya suddenly thinks that the majority should walk all over the minority, and that minorities should have no rights. He must have changed his mind about Aborigines and think that they should have no rights because they're in a minority in Australia. He's become a member of the far right!

He also appears to have something against countries which are smaller than Australia, and would like to see a few superstates. Perhaps he'd like to see Oceania become a reality, in which case Australia would just be a drop in the Ocean.

Well I support, supporting aboriginals both culturally through increased understanding and adoption of their 'base faith' AND financially through what are already existing payments and subsidies. We should spend more on infrastructure for rural and remote Australia which is where 'aboriginal majority' communities are, and where there is currently an under-supply of public services. I don't support splitting up Australia in to smaller weaker nations for anyone.
does that make me right wing?

And 100% support the concept of Oceania or Australpacifica or Australasia
we should formally unionize with New Zealand first. make them 2 states North and South island (joining our existing 6 states and we should make the Northern Territory formally a state too)
After that either the pacific islands or Papua New Guinea
I think that is where the EU went wrong
it tried to get everyone in one big swoop, i think it is more workable to join a couple of nations at a time

as to super states... it is inevitable,
So it is not about supporting it...
is about taking action to make the most of the situation
(as generally life does and is the driver of evolution)
Basically...you can fight the tides or surf them

And what if New Zealand doesn't want to be part of Greater Australia? Would you force them into submission?

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:13 am

veya_victaous wrote:I see Didge is back to his usual ignorant divisive ramblings in his vain attempts to draw Aussies into the same dire circumstances as the tiny pseudo-nations of Europe.

Usual ignorant fuckwit reply

Quelle surprise from the forum racist

I have made plenty of points

Put up or sod off

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:14 am

Correction now he is trying to cause racist divides among South Americans.
Why Didge why?
South America should be uniting to battle it out with Australpacifica for 4th place among superstates.. assuming we can over take Russia which will probably get drawn into the shit slinging hill peasants wars on it's borders (Europe and middle east) so is not unreasonable to suggest we will UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 202592697

UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 202592697

Of course China/Asia will be battling the USA/NAU for 1st and 2nd, while India will likely hold 3rd place.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:19 am

Anyway Veya, my question about New Zealand is relevant because in theory it relates to the issue of the Falklands. The Falklands is geographically nearer to Argentina than it is to the UK - like New Zealand is geographically near Australia. However, do you propose that these small Islands are forcibly taken over against their will? The Falklanders largely want to be British.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:19 am

veya_victaous wrote:Correction now he is trying to cause racist divides among South Americans.
Why Didge why?
South America should be uniting to battle it out with Australpacifica for 4th place among superstates.. assuming we can over take Russia which will probably get drawn into the shit slinging hill peasants wars on it's borders (Europe and middle east) so is not unreasonable to suggest we will

Of course China/Asia will be battling the USA/NAU for 1st and 2nd, while India will likely hold 3rd place.

Gibberish again

The falkland islanders have been on the islands for 9 generations and you are backing Spanish Colonialist bullies to yet again try to force the islands away from the people living there having democratic rights and self determination to govern themselves
I suggest your sort your own shit out in Australia, where racism and backwardness is rife and allow a people a right to govern themselves with out some retard forcing his backward views on them

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:24 am

@raggs
no, we shouldn't need to.
it will be to all our benefit.
And Well, not to put to fine a point on it, they are new world too.
they also 'lack' the tribal ties that are embraced by so many Europeans.

most of us that are born and raised in the new world find the very localized ties you have sort of weird. we are more accepting of change as we are young nations that are changing. it is just something we expect not just accept.
as an example, Personally in my life (only 33) i have seen suburbia expand by over 20km, there used to be 2 streets parallel to mine then paddocks and semi rural now wall to suburbia, that is already getting knocked down in sections to make way for apartments and higher density housing.
We also move more and further, I am considered to be staying near by even though i bought 230km away.

We just view the world differently. UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 2190311264

UN Again deny Self-Determination of the Falkland Islanders- (Update-Cameron Tells UN to get stuffed) 2190311264

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:26 am

Never heard such racist language in all my life referring to people as tribes who no longer have been tribes since they were Celtic, Germanic, Norse etc centuries ago.
It is tribalism views that create and have caused racism is they give off a view on who is better than another in superiority and why racism has persisted through the ages.

Holy crap on a cracker

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:27 am

veya_victaous wrote:@raggs
no, we shouldn't need to.
it will be to all our benefit.
And Well, not to put to fine a point on it, they are new world too.
they also 'lack' the tribal ties that are embraced by so many Europeans.

most of us that are born and raised in the new world find the very localized ties you have sort of weird. we are more accepting of change as we are young nations that are changing. it is just something we expect not just accept.
as an example, Personally in my life (only 33) i have seen suburbia expand by over 20km, there used to be 2 streets parallel to mine then paddocks and semi rural now wall to suburbia, that is already getting knocked down in sections to make way for apartments and higher density housing.
We also move more and further, I am considered to be staying near by even though i bought 230km away.

We just view the world differently.

What if you can't persuade the New Zealanders that it would be fabulous to be joined at the hip with Australia?

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:33 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway Veya, my question about New Zealand is relevant because in theory it relates to the issue of the Falklands. The Falklands is geographically nearer to Argentina than it is to the UK - like New Zealand is geographically near Australia. However, do you propose that these small Islands are forcibly taken over against their will? The Falklanders largely want to be British.

well that is a very good post and point.

I would suggest then they move to Britain as individuals.. but since stomree will treat them badly pale

I guess i also support more freedom of movement but not complete free movement I do believe there does need to be some sort of control.

really they have a hard situation because Argentina does have a legitimate claim to the waters and continental shelf. as the weaker they do sort of need to bend first. that is just fact of life stuff, if they don't then they must accept there is potential for war.
But in saying that the reason why the EU is still more successful than Hitler or Napoleon, that tried to achieve then same unification, is because it was created via negotiation not force.. history teaches more can be achieved long term with the carrot than the stick. empires/unions that rely on the stick don't last long.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:36 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway Veya, my question about New Zealand is relevant because in theory it relates to the issue of the Falklands. The Falklands is geographically nearer to Argentina than it is to the UK - like New Zealand is geographically near Australia. However, do you propose that these small Islands are forcibly taken over against their will? The Falklanders largely want to be British.

well that is a very good post and point.

I would suggest then they move to Britain as individuals.. but since stomree will treat them badly
I guess i also support more freedom of movement but not complete free movement I do believe there does need to be some sort of control.

really they have a hard situation because Argentina does have a legitimate claim to the waters and continental shelf. as the weaker they do sort of need to bend first. that is just fact of life stuff, if they don't then they must accept there is potential for war.
But in saying that the reason why the EU is still more successful than Hitler or Napoleon, that tried to achieve then same unification, is because it was created via negotiation not force.. history teaches more can be achieved long term with the carrot than the stick. empires/unions that rely on the stick don't last long.

It has no claim

Argentina is also a Colonialist nation

That is like say Australia has a claim to New Zeland based on the lose proximity of the Islands, which is just blatantly absurd

9 generations of people have lived on the Falkland Islands, so why are you at every turn denying these people their rights?

If we go by this stance of yours, and you being the descendants of colonialists, then you have no right to self determination in Australia and should cede the land back to the Aboriginals

That is why your views utterly are hypocritical and completely conflict

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:37 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway Veya, my question about New Zealand is relevant because in theory it relates to the issue of the Falklands. The Falklands is geographically nearer to Argentina than it is to the UK - like New Zealand is geographically near Australia. However, do you propose that these small Islands are forcibly taken over against their will? The Falklanders largely want to be British.

well that is a very good post and point.

I would suggest then they move to Britain as individuals.. but since stomree will treat them badly
I guess i also support more freedom of movement but not complete free movement I do believe there does need to be some sort of control.

really they have a hard situation because Argentina does have a legitimate claim to the waters and continental shelf. as the weaker they do sort of need to bend first. that is just fact of life stuff, if they don't then they must accept there is potential for war.
But in saying that the reason why the EU is still more successful than Hitler or Napoleon, that tried to achieve then same unification, is because it was created via negotiation not force.. history teaches more can be achieved long term with the carrot than the stick. empires/unions that rely on the stick don't last long.

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to?

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:39 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@raggs
no, we shouldn't need to.
it will be to all our benefit.
And Well, not to put to fine a point on it, they are new world too.
they also 'lack' the tribal ties that are embraced by so many Europeans.

most of us that are born and raised in the new world find the very localized ties you have sort of weird. we are more accepting of change as we are young nations that are changing. it is just something we expect not just accept.
as an example, Personally in my life (only 33) i have seen suburbia expand by over 20km, there used to be 2 streets parallel to mine then paddocks and semi rural now wall to suburbia, that is already getting knocked down in sections to make way for apartments and higher density housing.
We also move more and further, I am considered to be staying near by even though i bought 230km away.

We just view the world differently.

What if you can't persuade the New Zealanders that it would be fabulous to be joined at the hip with Australia?

we cross that bridge if we come to it...

really it is more likely to need crossing when we try others like Papua New Guinea. but still hopefully not

we already have open borders between Australia and NZ and many shared corporations plus historically we had a united army so it is very unlikely we could not convince NZ to reform the ANZAC

by Eilzel Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:39 am

Veya, you cannot justify Argentina taking the Falklands against the inhabitants of the islands.

I actually agree on the inevitability of superstates and their eventual domination over the globe. But let that be at the decision of local populations. In time they will choose that way anyway- I honestly believe that future generations of Falklanders, depending on Argentina's progress, will want to switch motherland, as will N.Ireland in time.

Let them do so on their terms, but not on any other. The Falklanders should decide their own path.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:40 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What if you can't persuade the New Zealanders that it would be fabulous to be joined at the hip with Australia?

we cross that bridge if we come to it...

really it is more likely to need crossing when we try others like Papua New Guinea. but still hopefully not

we already have open borders between Australia and NZ and many shared corporations plus historically we had a united army so it is very unlikely we could not convince NZ to reform the ANZAC

Let's just say that the New Zealanders don't want to be part of Greater Australia, and they simply can't be convinced. What do you propose?

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What if you can't persuade the New Zealanders that it would be fabulous to be joined at the hip with Australia?

we cross that bridge if we come to it...

really it is more likely to need crossing when we try others like Papua New Guinea. but still hopefully not

we already have open borders between Australia and NZ and many shared corporations plus historically we had a united army so it is very unlikely we could not convince NZ to reform the ANZAC

But and its a big butt, just as within the EU, all these nations have a right to self determination

You cannot back a nation just because it has a bigger land mass and population to then deny the rights of the Falkland Islanders, when both the Argentinians are vastly Colonialists as well.

That is like you saying Hitler was justified to invade Poland based on claims to rights of ownership of land, that in that case, was previously German and that the self determination of the Polish has no meaning to you

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:42 am

Eilzel wrote:Veya, you cannot justify Argentina taking the Falklands against the inhabitants of the islands.

I actually agree on the inevitability of superstates and their eventual domination over the globe. But let that be at the decision of local populations. In time they will choose that way anyway- I honestly believe that future generations of Falklanders, depending on Argentina's progress, will want to switch motherland, as will N.Ireland in time.

Let them do so on their terms, but not on any other. The Falklanders should decide their own path.

Do you really think that? It seems to me to be going the other way - small states wanting to be independent rather than joined to a larger state.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:44 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway Veya, my question about New Zealand is relevant because in theory it relates to the issue of the Falklands. The Falklands is geographically nearer to Argentina than it is to the UK - like New Zealand is geographically near Australia. However, do you propose that these small Islands are forcibly taken over against their will? The Falklanders largely want to be British.

well that is a very good post and point.

I would suggest then they move to Britain as individuals.. but since stomree will treat them badly
I guess i also support more freedom of movement but not complete free movement I do believe there does need to be some sort of control.

really they have a hard situation because Argentina does have a legitimate claim to the waters and continental shelf. as the weaker they do sort of need to bend first. that is just fact of life stuff, if they don't then they must accept there is potential for war.
But in saying that the reason why the EU is still more successful than Hitler or Napoleon, that tried to achieve then same unification, is because it was created via negotiation not force.. history teaches more can be achieved long term with the carrot than the stick. empires/unions that rely on the stick don't last long.

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to? Where ever they want

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually. See it makes since to untie from the specific bit of land and just try to be safe and happy in a place you support

it is an unfortunate situation not everyone can get what they want and REALLY there is already a lot of people in the world struggling to get what they need. and that is only going to get worse if people don't start working together towards greater efficiency... which the superstates bring Wink

until skynet Razz

by Eilzel Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:45 am

Raggs, I think eventually economic pragmatism becomes hard to ignore. Right now Argentina is not do well, the UK comparatively better. If our roles ever reversed, they'd reconsider I think. Pretty sure last I checked N.Ireland was closer to a 50-50 split than ever.

Regardless, it should absolutely be the choice of the people living there.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:46 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to? Where ever they want

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually. See it makes since to untie from the specific bit of land and just try to be safe and happy in a place you support

it is an unfortunate situation not everyone can get what they want and REALLY there is already a lot of people in the world struggling to get what they need. and that is only going to get worse if people don't start working together towards greater efficiency... which the superstates bring until skynet

Please come down from the cuckoo clouds

by Major Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:48 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to? Where ever they want

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually. See it makes since to untie from the specific bit of land and just try to be safe and happy in a place you support

it is an unfortunate situation not everyone can get what they want and REALLY there is already a lot of people in the world struggling to get what they need. and that is only going to get worse if people don't start working together towards greater efficiency... which the superstates bring until skynet

You do not know "Stormee will treat them badly" here, did I say that?

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:50 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What if you can't persuade the New Zealanders that it would be fabulous to be joined at the hip with Australia?

we cross that bridge if we come to it...

really it is more likely to need crossing when we try others like Papua New Guinea. but still hopefully not

we already have open borders between Australia and NZ and many shared corporations plus historically we had a united army so it is very unlikely we could not convince NZ to reform the ANZAC

But and its a big butt, just as within the EU, all these nations have a right to self determination

You cannot back a nation just because it has a bigger land mass and population to then deny the rights of the Falkland Islanders, when both the Argentinians are vastly Colonialists as well.

That is like you saying Hitler was justified to invade Poland based on claims to rights of ownership of land, that in that case, was previously German and that the self determination of the Polish has no meaning to you

Correct states are allowed to invade their neighbors, European always did until they decided they didn't want the lines to change any more..
and really you don't get to decide that.

Man is but an animal, and we now have super colonies (like ants) and the world has finite resources. fights are part of nature and inevitable with the continued scarcity of resources
the weaker if wise will try to avoid it.
it is even wiser to join another and become stronger.
And homo sapiens is not the only species who's evolution is being driven by the need for larger colonies/societies

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:51 am

Stormee wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to? Where ever they want

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually. See it makes since to untie from the specific bit of land and just try to be safe and happy in a place you support

it is an unfortunate situation not everyone can get what they want and REALLY there is already a lot of people in the world struggling to get what they need. and that is only going to get worse if people don't start working together towards greater efficiency... which the superstates bring until skynet

You do not know "Stormee will treat them badly" here, did I say that?

they are foreigners... Suspect

what on earth have you ever posted that will suggest that you will ever threat them as the Englishmen they would be if they became citizens Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:53 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Right, so you think that Argentina should take over the Falklands, and if the people there don't like it, they should move to the UK. In that case, if Australia took over New Zealand against the wishes of the people, where do you propose that the people of New Zealand move to? Where ever they want

Would you also suggest that people in Northern Ireland who don't want to be British just move to Southern Ireland? That's not a bad idea actually. See it makes since to untie from the specific bit of land and just try to be safe and happy in a place you support

it is an unfortunate situation not everyone can get what they want and REALLY there is already a lot of people in the world struggling to get what they need. and that is only going to get worse if people don't start working together towards greater efficiency... which the superstates bring until skynet

I really dislike this habit some people have on here of putting their own comments within a quoted post.

Anyway, you're proposing that a majority population (or the whole population) of one country should just be told - if you don't like being taken over, just go away? The situation in NI would of course be different because those who don't want to be British are in a minority there.

So basically, on the one hand you're saying that geographic minorities don't matter - as in the case of the Falklanders, and on the other hand you're saying they do matter - as in the case of a minority (perhaps of 0) of New Zealanders wanting to be part of Greater Australia.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:55 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

But and its a big butt, just as within the EU, all these nations have a right to self determination

You cannot back a nation just because it has a bigger land mass and population to then deny the rights of the Falkland Islanders, when both the Argentinians are vastly Colonialists as well.

That is like you saying Hitler was justified to invade Poland based on claims to rights of ownership of land, that in that case, was previously German and that the self determination of the Polish has no meaning to you
Correct states are allowed to invade their neighbors, European always did until they decided they didn't want the lines to change any more..
and really you don't get to decide that.
Wrong, they are not allowed to invade their neighbours, that is jut complete and utter bullshit
That is called an act of aggression
Do I have to educate you on everything?
If there is no legal binding laws, you wish to then instill anarchy, which is no surprise really

Man is but an animal, and we now have super colonies (like ants) and the world has finite resources. fights are part of nature and inevitable with the continued scarcity of resources
Oh my goodness, is that why we have not seen any European war now for decades?
I really am not taking any of your views seriously, as they are based of the views of someone let out for the day from the funny farm
the weaker if wise will try to avoid it.
it is even wiser to join another and become stronger.
And homo sapiens is not the only species who's evolution is being driven by the need for larger colonies/societies

At the end of the day this is about whether you back the right of self determination.

If you do, then you have to back the Falkland islanders

If you do not, then you should as well as all other descendants of European colonialists leave immediately.

So interesting to know you actively supported Hitler invading Poland, and thus being the catalyst for the deaths of 60 million people

Wow

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:56 am

Eilzel wrote:Raggs, I think eventually economic pragmatism becomes hard to ignore. Right now Argentina is not do well, the UK comparatively better. If our roles ever reversed, they'd reconsider I think. Pretty sure last I checked N.Ireland was closer to a 50-50 split than ever.

Regardless, it should absolutely be the choice of the people living there.

It seems to me that the world is full of tribes trying to break away from the country they're part of Les, or resisting being assimilated into a particular State. For example, relatively recently, we had the break up of Yugoslavia into different countries.

by Guest Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:57 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Raggs, I think eventually economic pragmatism becomes hard to ignore. Right now Argentina is not do well, the UK comparatively better. If our roles ever reversed, they'd reconsider I think. Pretty sure last I checked N.Ireland was closer to a 50-50 split than ever.

Regardless, it should absolutely be the choice of the people living there.

It seems to me that the world is full of tribes trying to break away from the country they're part of Les, or resisting being assimilated into a particular State. For example, relatively recently, we had the break up of Yugoslavia into different countries.

But they were formerly independent states before in history Rags
Yugoslavia, was not self determination but the creation by the League of Nations
It fell more apart because of Serbian aggression

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:59 am

Well they didn't like being part of one big country did they - they broke it up again.

by Eilzel Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:00 am

And now those former Yugoslav states want to be part of the EU. So it comes back to the same. And as didge says this time it is by choice.

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Veya, you cannot justify Argentina taking the Falklands against the inhabitants of the islands.

I actually agree on the inevitability of superstates and their eventual domination over the globe. But let that be at the decision of local populations. In time they will choose that way anyway- I honestly believe that future generations of Falklanders, depending on Argentina's progress, will want to switch motherland, as will N.Ireland in time.

Let them do so on their terms, but not on any other. The Falklanders should decide their own path.

Do you really think that? It seems to me to be going the other way - small states wanting to be independent rather than joined to a larger state.

the greater vocalization is because the noose is tightening
People fear change and they are coming to realize that is is inevitable
Thus you get people resisting change and any cost, even their own determent.
working in technology it is something you have to conscious of.

As much as Les is sentiments are good and i agree,
the other side is they are delaying Argentina own path which is to have as much bargaining power when it comes to unionizing with the other large south American nations. it is not about the island it is about economic and military control of the continental shelf.. Which to use Australian and New Zealand for example,
they have surrendered it to us. (through negotiation not aggression)
They in circumstance far less likely to lead to aggression made the choice a weaker nation has to make at times.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:02 am

Eilzel wrote:And now those former Yugoslav states want to be part of the EU. So it comes back to the same. And as didge says this time it is by choice.

If you look at all the separatist movements going on though, you'll see that loads of groups want to be independent. Even if they don't want to be independent, they want to be joined to a different country, but that doesn't mean they want to be part of a superstate.

The EU isn't really the same thing. I know some people call it a superstate, but it's not - it's made up of sovereign states.

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:05 am

So Veya, if the Aborigines said they didn't want to be Australian, and they wanted their own State, would you tell them to leave?

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:05 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

But and its a big butt, just as within the EU, all these nations have a right to self determination

You cannot back a nation just because it has a bigger land mass and population to then deny the rights of the Falkland Islanders, when both the Argentinians are vastly Colonialists as well.

That is like you saying Hitler was justified to invade Poland based on claims to rights of ownership of land, that in that case, was previously German and that the self determination of the Polish has no meaning to you
Correct states are allowed to invade their neighbors, European always did until they decided they didn't want the lines to change any more..
and really you don't get to decide that.
Wrong, they are not allowed to invade their neighbours, that is jut complete and utter bullshit
That is called an act of aggression
Do I have to educate you on everything?
If there is no legal binding laws, you wish to then instill anarchy, which is no surprise really

Man is but an animal, and we now have super colonies (like ants) and the world has finite resources. fights are part of nature and inevitable with the continued scarcity of resources
Oh my goodness, is that why we have not seen any European war now for decades?
I really am not taking any of your views seriously, as they are based of the views of someone let out for the day from the funny farm
the weaker if wise will try to avoid it.
it is even wiser to join another and become stronger.
And homo sapiens is not the only species who's evolution is being driven by the need for larger colonies/societies

At the end of the day this is about whether you back the right of self determination.

If you do, then you have to back the Falkland islanders

If you do not, then you should as well as all other descendants of European colonialists leave immediately.

So interesting to know you actively supported Hitler invading Poland, and thus being the catalyst for the deaths of 60 million people

Wow

in war there is no legally binding laws, until the winner decides what they are. Rolling Eyes

And like I said you don't get to make that decision! no one does Life is Life Man is but a beast and all you demands for him to be civilized can be ignored.
Europe used to be able to enforce it's rules and lines through the use of violence (the Falklands war)
But Are you still in the position too?
do you really expect the rest of the world to give a shit that you don't want the lines to change?

by Raggamuffin Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:07 am

Veya, if the US and UK had decided to keep hold of Iraq, would that have been OK with you? After all, if the people of Iraq didn't want that, you'd just say they should leave, right?

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:08 am

Raggamuffin wrote:So Veya, if the Aborigines said they didn't want to be Australian, and they wanted their own State, would you tell them to leave?

If an Individual aborigine did then yes they should have the right to move where ever they want to too..

this is where people like didge make the classic mistake made by the old world when dealing with other peoples they are NOT homogeneous. there will be at least one individual that will want every option,

And fact of life... is we need to remain united for our own protection if we break then China might pick us off one by one. Neutral

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