Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:45 am

It took me 40 years to become a Jew. When I was a child, I wasn’t a Jew and not only because I never went to a synagogue. My father’s family had abandoned their religion so he wasn’t Jewish. More to the point, my mother and my grandmother weren’t Jewish either, so according to orthodox Judaism’s principles of matrilineal descent, it was impossible for me to be a Jew. All I had was the “Cohen” name. I once asked my parents why they had not changed it. After saying, quite rightly, that you should never seek to appease racists, they confessed to thinking that antisemitism was over by the 1960s. After Hitler, humanity would surely see where the world’s most insane hatred led and resolve to put it to one side.

Bertolt Brecht said: “Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again.” My parents did not believe Brecht, at least not in the 1960s. Nor did I for a while. I was and remain an atheist who knows that communalist and identity politics crush individuality. I had no wish to join a tribe, let alone a religious one. Still there was no escaping the “Cohen”. When I first responded to the antisemitism that has spread so far from the extreme left into the mainstream that it now threatens to poison the Labour party, I am ashamed to say I considered two disgraceful replies. I might, I thought, not stop at opposing the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, and pledging support to leftwing Israelis and Palestinians who wanted a just and peaceful settlement for both peoples, but go on to behave like a grotesque from a Howard Jacobson satire. I would reassure fanatics that their “anti-Zionism” (that is, their call for the total destruction of the world’s only Jewish state) was not remotely racist.

Fortunately for my self-respect, I never sank that low. Whenever I hear Jews announce their hatred of Israel’s very existence, I suspect that underneath their loud bombast lies a quiet plea to the Islamists and neo-Nazis who might harm them: “I’m not like the others. Don’t pick on ”
Unfortunately, I assured anyone who asked (and some who did not) that, despite appearances to the contrary, I wasn’t Jewish. And that was as dishonourable. I sounded like a black man trying to pass as white or a German arguing with the Gestapo that there was a mistake in the paperwork. I stopped and accepted that racism changes your perception of the world and yourself. You become what your enemies say you are. And unless I wanted to shame myself, I had to become a Jew. A rather odd Jew, no doubt: a militant atheist who had to phone a friend to ask what on earth “mazel tov” meant. But a Jew nonetheless.

As one of the finest liberal ambitions is to find the sympathy to imagine the lives of others, you should become a Jew too. Declare that you have converted to Judaism or rediscovered your Jewish “heritage” and see the reaction. It’s not just that, if you are middle class and fortunate, you might experience racism for the first time, which in itself would be a “learning experience” worth having. You might also learn the essential lesson that antisemitism is not about Jews. Like rape, it’s about power. Whether the antisemitic conspiracy theory is deployed by German Nazis or Arab dictators, French anti-Dreyfusards or Saudi clerics, the argument is always the same. Democracy, an independent judiciary, equal human rights, freedom of speech and publication – all these “supposed” freedoms – are nothing but swindles that hide the machinations of the secret Jewish rulers of the world.

Describe the fantasy the Tsarist and Nazi empires developed that bluntly and it is impossible to understand how the Labour party is in danger of becoming as tainted as Ukip by the racists it attracts.

But consider how many leftwing activists, institutions or academics would agree with a politer version.

Western governments are the main source of the ills of the world. The “Israel lobby” controls western foreign policy. Israel itself is the “root cause” of all the terrors of the Middle East, from the Iraq war to Islamic State. Polite racism turns the Jews, once again, into demons with the supernatural power to manipulate and destroy nations. Or as the Swedish foreign minister, Margot Wallström, who sees herself as a feminist rather than a racial conspiracist, explained recently, Islamist attacks in Paris were the fault of Israeli occupiers in the West Bank. Or consider the otherwise bizarre indulgence of ultra-right religious extremists by people who otherwise describe themselves as liberals and leftists. The belief that Jews fuel radical Islam allows them to overlook superstition and the tyrannical denial of equal rights. They’re against Israel and that’s all that matters.

I could describe at vitriolic length how disgusted leftwing Jewish friends are that Labour members chose Jeremy Corbyn, despite his support for an Anglican cleric who linked to extremist sites that blamed Jews for 9/11, and his defence of an Islamist who recycled the libel that Jews dined on the blood of Christian children from the bottom of a medieval dung heap. But even if a chastened Labour expels this or that antisemite or disciplines the Jew-baiters at the Oxford University Labour club, I do not see how its leaders can challenge the conspiratorial world-view they shared for decades. They would be renouncing everything they once believed in. As someone who warned in the 00s about the growing darkness on the left, I am pessimistic about the chances of change. If you keep shouting “fire” and the fire brigade never comes, you tend to assume the house will burn to the ground. But perhaps familiarity breeds contempt and I am not the best judge.

If Labour MPs and members want the party to break with a past that has led to leftists allying with religious reactionaries who deny universal human rights and hate every value the centre-left professes to hold, they will have to learn to treat all racisms equally. They will need to make a brief acquaintance with European history and understand that the left has no guaranteed immunity from fascistic ideology. They will have to see antisemitism for what it is and understand why it always leads to despotism and despair. Like me, in short, and if only briefly, they will have to become Jews themselves

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/19/why-i-am-becoming-a-jew-and-you-should-too?CMP=share_btn_tw

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:25 am

Whatever.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:38 am

I know someone who used to be Jewish, but isn't now.

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:41 am

Raggamuffin wrote:I know someone who used to be Jewish, but isn't now.

If you want to choose your religion, fair enough. Just don't try to force feed it to others.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:47 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I know someone who used to be Jewish, but isn't now.

If you want to choose your religion, fair enough. Just don't try to force feed it to others.

Has someone done that in this thread? Laughing

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:51 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

If you want to choose your religion, fair enough. Just don't try to force feed it to others.

Has someone done that in this thread?

No, I'm generalising. But it's been suggested in the article. 'I'm a Jew, do you wanna Jew too?' lol!

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:30 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Has someone done that in this thread?

No, I'm generalising. But it's been suggested in the article. 'I'm a Jew, do you wanna Jew too?'

Well yes. I don't see the point of becoming a Jew just for the sake of it.

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:56 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

No, I'm generalising. But it's been suggested in the article. 'I'm a Jew, do you wanna Jew too?'

Well yes. I don't see the point of becoming a Jew just for the sake of it.

That's what I dislike about religion. The 'ours is the best' type of mentality some people have.

by eddie Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:39 pm

I know a Jewish woman who converted to Islam

by 'Wolfie Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:46 pm

I WONDER if the old Didgeridodger has converted to Judaism yet ?

IF NOT, why not..

pirat

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:54 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

I WONDER if the old Didgeridodger has converted to Judaism yet ?

IF NOT, why not..

Actually had the same thought, I saw "Why I'm becoming a Jew" by Didge, and thought, "Now who didn't see that one coming." Cool

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:56 pm

This is the danger of some thread titles, and also of not using the quote box. I did think at first that Didge had become Jewish. Laughing

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:This is the danger of some thread titles, and also of not using the quote box. I did think at first that Didge had become Jewish.

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too 1x12_Marta_Complex_(18)

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:58 pm

And case in point
Did anyone actually read and understand the article

Of course the very same posters (bar eddie) when there was a spate of unarmed black men being shot in America and the same posters spoke nothing but "Black lives matter". Of which i agreed that clearly man African Americans suffer such poor discrimination. That the left are happy to talk about constantly and daily, claiming they champion the fight against racism. They are able to delve into their white guilt syndrome, as suffer persecution of the Africans occurred by both the British and the Americans.

However when iot is constantly raised of the ever growing and increasing hate against Jews, and there is from the same posters a wall of silence. The lefties find themselves utterly confused. They cannot delve in their white guilt syndrome, as the US and Britain were the allied side. Maybe its a case that they are not dark enough or believe white people suffer racism

So yet again was the author wrong in regards to left?

Nope, he was fundementally spot on when he said this

If Labour MPs and members want the party to break with a past that has led to leftists allying with religious reactionaries who deny universal human rights and hate every value the centre-left professes to hold, they will have to learn to treat all racisms equally. They will need to make a brief acquaintance with European history and understand that the left has no guaranteed immunity from fascistic ideology. [size=16]They will have to see antisemitism for what it is and understand why it always leads to despotism and despair.[/size] Like me, in short, and if only briefly, they will have to become Jews themselves

How right he was in regards to Ben, Horatio, and Bee. Clueless to the fact and problems of antisemitism.

Thanks to Bee, Horatio and Bee for proving the article right, and how the left

The leftist morality has indeed gone bankrupt

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t14943-the-moral-bankruptcy-of-the-progressive-left

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:03 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well yes. I don't see the point of becoming a Jew just for the sake of it.

That's what I dislike about religion. The 'ours is the best' type of mentality some people have.

Is that why there are many Atheist Jews them?

Being that a Jewish identity is many things

Please edcuate your poor understanding it seems

Jewish identity is the objective or subjective state of perceiving oneself as a Jew and as relating to being Jewish.[1] Under a broader definition, Jewish identity does not depend on whether a person is regarded as a Jew by others, or by an external set of religious, or legal, or sociological norms. Jewish identity does not need to imply religious orthodoxy. Accordingly, Jewish identity can be cultural in nature. Jewish identity can involve ties to the Jewish community. Orthodox Judaism bases Jewishness on matrilineal descent. According to Jewish law (halacha), all those born of a Jewish mother are Jewish, regardless of personal beliefs or level of observance of Jewish law.

You I guess need to further understand as the article indicates on how to understand a problem.Its asking you to place yourself in their shoes to understand, but never mind, am happy to correct your evident ignorance here

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:10 pm

I for one understand that "Jewish" could relate to a religious belief or an ethnic identity. I just think it's a bit silly to go on about the latter if one has never really bothered with it. Why suddenly get all uptight about your name or ethnic background anyway? It's a bit stupid to suddenly decide to be "Jewish" to make a point.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I for one understand that "Jewish" could relate to a religious belief or an ethnic identity. I just think it's a bit silly to go on about the latter if one has never really bothered with it. Why suddenly get all uptight about your name or ethnic background anyway? It's a bit stupid to suddenly decide to be "Jewish" to make a point.

Well being as he does have a Jewish ethnic background, that he is very left wing and recognizing a growing problem. The best way to understand that problems is by placing yourself in that situation which for Nick, mean identifying himself to be a Jew. I am greatly concerned at the rising levels of antisemitism and hate speech used, all to familiar to evens in the past. Clearly he is alarmed and is go to reach out to more people reading this way

Laters

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:44 pm

Jewish ethnic background? Bollox. He suddenly decided he was going to be a Jew because of his name. Tbh, the whole article is a bit difficult to follow, and his point is really not that clear.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:58 pm

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Jewish ethnic background? Bollox. He suddenly decided he was going to be a Jew because of his name. Tbh, the whole article is a bit difficult to follow, and his point is really not that clear.

Its not bollocks, as you cannot erase that ancestry and you clearly never read fully what he said, on this of which I posted twice.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Jewish ethnic background? Bollox. He suddenly decided he was going to be a Jew because of his name. Tbh, the whole article is a bit difficult to follow, and his point is really not that clear.

Its not bollocks, as you cannot erase that ancestry and you clearly never read fully what he said, on this of which I posted twice.

You keep saying that there's no such thing as race, but you always draw so much attention to race. This man is called "Cohen, but even though his family show no interest in being Jewish, you think that he should be obsessed with "history" and race. It's all just attention seeking.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Its not bollocks, as you cannot erase that ancestry and you clearly never read fully what he said, on this of which I posted twice.

You keep saying that there's no such thing as race, (misleading what I have said is that "biologically races do not exist in huamnsc)

but you always draw so much attention to race. This man is called "Cohen, but even though his family show no interest in being Jewish, you think that he should be obsessed with "history" and race. It's all just attention seeking.

Biologically in humans races do not exist, but exist as a social construct, which I have told you many times over.
Do you not understand this?
Its not up to you or anyone else who we each wish to identify ourselves by.
I think people like yourself have not learnt anything from history and why you will continual to make the same mistakes
This is even more so being you fail to grasp the context he is speaking

"Like me, in short, and if only briefly, they will have to become Jews themselves
"

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:03 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You keep saying that there's no such thing as race, (misleading what I have said is that "biologically races do not exist in huamnsc)

but you always draw so much attention to race. This man is called "Cohen, but even though his family show no interest in being Jewish, you think that he should be obsessed with "history" and race. It's all just attention seeking.

Biologically in humans races do not exist, but exist as a social construct, which I have told you many times over.
Do you not understand this?
Its not up to you or anyone else who we each wish to identify ourselves by.
I think people like yourself have not learnt anything from history and why you continual make the same mistakes
This is even more so being you fail to grasp the context he is speaking

"Like me, in short, and if only briefly, they will have to become Jews themselves
"

Well why does he suddenly want to become a socially constructed Jew? People who bang about their "heritage" are usually attention seekers, especially if they didn't give a toss before their socially constructed group became big news.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Biologically in humans races do not exist, but exist as a social construct, which I have told you many times over.
Do you not understand this?
Its not up to you or anyone else who we each wish to identify ourselves by.
I think people like yourself have not learnt anything from history and why you continual make the same mistakes
This is even more so being you fail to grasp the context he is speaking

"Like me, in short, and if only briefly, they will have to become Jews themselves
"

Well why does he suddenly want to become a socially constructed Jew? People who bang about their "heritage" are usually attention seekers, especially if they didn't give a toss before their socially constructed group became big news.

Point so far above your heads is beyond explaining.

Your claim to attention seeking you just invented and is not based on anything

You have mow gone from zero talking about the issue.now having issues with people proud of their heritage, which would include a great many Brits

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:08 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well why does he suddenly want to become a socially constructed Jew? People who bang about their "heritage" are usually attention seekers, especially if they didn't give a toss before their socially constructed group became big news.

Point so far above your heads is beyond explaining.

Your claim to attention seeking you just invented and is not based on anything

You have mow gone from zero talking about the issue.now having issues with people proud of their heritage, which would include a great many Brits

It's like "travellers" who live in houses and hardly move from their sofas for years, and then suddenly decide they're going to bang on about their "heritage" and become part of a socially disadvantaged group. It's all attention seeking.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Point so far above your heads is beyond explaining.

Your claim to attention seeking you just invented and is not based on anything

You have mow gone from zero talking about the issue.now having issues with people proud of their heritage, which would include a great many Brits

It's like "travellers" who live in houses and hardly move from their sofas for years, and then suddenly decide they're going to bang on about their "heritage" and become a socially disadvantaged group. It's all attention seeking.

So like I said made up bullshit
To be proud that you are say English, is not negative but a positive stance.
So if attention seekers, is a very negative behavior. Then how on earth do you come to the really absurd notion its attention seeking?

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's like "travellers" who live in houses and hardly move from their sofas for years, and then suddenly decide they're going to bang on about their "heritage" and become a socially disadvantaged group. It's all attention seeking.

So like I said made up bullshit
To be proud that you are say English, is not negative but a positive stance.
So if attention seekers, a very negative behavior. Then how on earth do you come to the really absurd notion its attention seeking?

I haven't said I'm proud to be English, I've merely objected to the abuse directed at English people on here.

This man says it took him 40 years to become a Jew, so clearly he's suddenly decided he wants some attention.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:17 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

So like I said made up bullshit
To be proud that you are say English, is not negative but a positive stance.
So if attention seekers, a very negative behavior. Then how on earth do you come to the really absurd notion its attention seeking?

I haven't said I'm proud to be English, I've merely objected to the abuse directed at English people on here.

This man says it took him 40 years to become a Jew, so clearly he's suddenly decided he wants some attention.

Which very much places you in that sphere of being concerned of the English, meaning its very important the English association
Hence by default you already are proud, but fail to recognise why

He already had Jewish heritage, which would have made him a partial Jewish identity anyway, showing again you have still not grasped what he was actually saying have you?

by Major Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:20 pm

God said to Moses all Jews should have big noses and it was so.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:23 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I haven't said I'm proud to be English, I've merely objected to the abuse directed at English people on here.

This man says it took him 40 years to become a Jew, so clearly he's suddenly decided he wants some attention.

Which very much places you in that sphere of being concerned of the English, meaning its very important the English association
Hence by default you already are proud, but fail to recognise why

He already had Jewish heritage, which would have made him a partial Jewish identity anyway, showing again you have still not grasped what he was actually saying have you?

I've always been English though, and I'm only referring to people on here. He hasn't always been Jewish, he just decided he was going to be a Jew. He didn't give a toss about his "heritage" before, and neither did his family.

Perhaps I haven't grasped what he's saying. I keep trying to read it, but I give up half way through.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:26 pm

Stormee wrote:God said to Moses all Jews should have big noses and it was so.

Well no God exists. Moses was no doubt an Egyptian, being as Mose is an Egyptian name. More likely was a High priest of the first monolithic religion, "The Aten". Where Jews would have only constituted one of the 12 tribes of Israel, he is meant to have freed from enslavement.

As to what you have been blessed with. Is the enormous empty space within your head

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which very much places you in that sphere of being concerned of the English, meaning its very important the English association
Hence by default you already are proud, but fail to recognise why

He already had Jewish heritage, which would have made him a partial Jewish identity anyway, showing again you have still not grasped what he was actually saying have you?

I've always been English though, and I'm only referring to people on here. He hasn't always been Jewish, he just decided he was going to be a Jew. He didn't give a toss about his "heritage" before, and neither did his family.

Perhaps I haven't grasped what he's saying. I keep trying to read it, but I give up half way through.

Do you understand what Empathic intelligence is?

by eddie Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:40 pm

Stormee wrote:God said to Moses all Jews should have big noses and it was so.

It made me chuckle lol!

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:57 pm

eddie wrote:
Stormee wrote:God said to Moses all Jews should have big noses and it was so.

It made me chuckle

Not having a pop Eddie, and hi by the way.

And to help Rags understand what Emphatic intelligence is?

Stormee has a provided exactly something said and done countless times towards Jews as a derogative stereotype racist insult.
The reality is being as you are not Jewish, in no way would this make you feel insulted, as you have no experience of such hate towards Jews
Now what Stormee said was not said with any malice intent, but negative stereotypes have been promoted poorly and racially against the Jews, where it was one of countless arguments the Nazi;s negatively made in regards of the Jews. By dehumanizing them by such poor negative stereotypes, made their extermination far more easier and normalized, as the Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals etc were fundamentally seen as defective, which to the Nazi's meant Extermination.

So this is very good example to go off

Empathic Intelligence is being able to place yourselves into the shoes of the other person to fully understand what they go through. It means being able to fully take yourself completely out of yolur comfort Zone, as in who you are and identify by
So the writer has in his article attempted to do this.

How did he achieve this easily and easily identifiable over one simple thing he did, in order to understand antisemitism?
How did he so quickly grasp what it was like to know hate directed at Jews?>

So do not take the wrong way and why such a poor racist sterotype of Jews with big noses is the best way to illustrate this point

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:11 pm

To help further understand this and based on history when this was actively taught to children to view Jews as if they were a pest, requiring extermination.

So this will also help Rags, Eddie, Stormee and everyone on the effects of poor racially hateful sterotypes

Drawing on several centuries of anti-semitism, Bauer intensifies her anti-semitic assault by making the virtuous German the object of the Jewish hate. The German is portrayed as hard-working, honest, handsome and courageous. In his character and physical appearance, the Jew is depicted as the antithesis of these qualities. This so-called Jewish hate of the German actually has its basis in the hatred of Jews by Christians who considered the Jews to be Christ-killers. As early as the eighteenth century, the Talmud was depicted as a book that encouraged and justified the commission of crimes against Christians. An example of this concept of the Jew as a Christian-hater occurs in Uncovered Jewry, Or A Thorough And Truthful Report About The Horrible Ways The Hidden Jews Desecrate The Holy Trinity.

This book appeared in Koenigsberg, Germany in 1711, and its description of the Talmud as a guide for committing crimes against was widely accepted by Christians. Let us now consider the illustrations. The Jew is pictured in the manner of a typical Nazi caricature with a huge nose, thick lips, bleary eyes and fat fingers. The stereotypical representation of the Jew: grotesque face, sneering expression, hook nose is identical to the image of the Devil in Christian folklore. The words conveying associations the young readers are expected to remember are printed in red: Devil, thick lips, ganster, Jew; handsome, courageous, proud, German. The illustration showing the Jew and the German, side by side, represents the situation under Nazism and draws the observer's attention to the Nazi perception of racial differences between the Aryan and the Jew.

The German is depicted as the tall, blond, slender and powerful Aryan ideal With regular features and a high forehead. His shovel indicates that he is a worker. In contrast to the Aryan ideal, the Jew is shown as short, dark-haired, misshapen, bulky, with a sloping forehead and a crooked nose and embodies the Jewish racial characteristics set forth by the Nazis. At the same time, she uses this image to convey the stereotype of the money-hungry Jew, well-clothed and carrying an attach case in his hand and a financial newspaper in his pocket. The figure of the Aryan appears proud and looks down upon the Jew, who gives him a shifty look and makes a somewhat concealed fist with his hand as though challenging him with respect to money.

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too School-sm

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too School-sm

The picture showing the expulsion of Jewish students and teachers from German schools depicts what was required by the law of 1933 according to which, Jewish civil servants, such as teachers, had to be pensioned off and the numberof Jewish students in a school limited to 1.5%. The last illustration points to the intended Nazi solution of the Jewish problem: the expulsion of all Jews from Germany. The sign, followed by a long line of Jewish figures from previous illustrations, reads "one-way street, hurry, hurry" and as a justification for this measure taken against the Jewish population, the second line reads "The Jews are our misfortune." The word "hurry" and the sentence "The Jews are our misfortune." appear in red, thereby stressing the grave danger that Jews pose to the well being of German society and the urgency with which they must be removed from Germany.

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too Onewaystreet-sm

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too Onewaystreet-sm

Almost all the illustrations of Jewish figures have the following characteristics: The body is usually stocky, sometimes thin; the posture is crooked or bent; the feet are flat; the hair is dark; there is a lot of coarse body hair. The face usually has dark, bulging eyes; a crooked or bent nose; hanging eyelids; a hanging underlip; a heavy beard. In the tradition of the German theologian Johann Kaspar Lavater (1741-1801), Nazi racial ideology used the negative physical characteristics attributed to Jews as an indication of their inferior nature and evil character. Of the three picture books for young children that I discuss, Trau keinem Fuchs auf grüner Heid und keinem Jud bei seinem Eid (Don't Trust A Fox in A Green Meadow Or the Word of A Jew) had the greatest circulation.

The effect of the circulation of these anti-semitic stereotypes among children can be observed in a school composition that was published by Der Stürmer in 1935. The title of the composition is the sentence on the sign in the last illustration: "The Jews are our misfortune." A short excerpt from this composition will suffice to demonstrate the effect of anti-semitic propaganda upon the young. " Regrettably, there are still many people today who say: Even the Jews are creatures of God. Therefore you must respect them. But we say: Vermin are animals too, but we exterminate them just the same. The Jew is a mongrel. He has hereditary tendencies from Aryans, Asiatics, Negroes, and from the Mongolians. Evil always preponderates in the case of a mongrel..."[12] Virtually every sentence of this composition reflects the anti-semitic ideas disseminated among young children via propaganda picture books published by Der Stürmer.

by eddie Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:12 pm

I just found it funny didge becasue some things just are? It's a stereotype that lots of Jewish people laugh about - there's no need for us to take things so seriously all,the time really....

There are British and English stereotypes and I'd laugh at them.

Im sorry I can't comment on the article without reading it again and really reading it (my daughter is ill so I'm in and out if her room right now)

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:17 pm

eddie wrote:I just found it funny didge becasue some things just are? It's a stereotype that lots of Jewish people laugh about - there's no need for us to take things so seriously all,the time really....

There are British and English stereotypes and I'd laugh at them.

Im sorry I can't comment on the article without reading it again and really reading it (my daughter is ill so I'm in and out if her room right now)

Eddie, its a perfect example to show people fail to understand or conceive racism

It fundamentally proves you have never experienced such racist prejudice directed at you day to day living.

So again, not having a go, but this was a very good example to show why many of the left on here are so clueless and learn nothing from history and why when it comes to stereotypes around the Jews. Which deemed them as inferior,as one of numerous excuses given as a reason to exterminate them.

I am actually quite glad this has been brought up

See my previous post on the history here.

Sp this leads to a an interesting question Eddie

What situation would it take for you to understand what it feels like to personally feel antisemitism?

by eddie Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:21 pm

Oh I don't know didge. It was funny and I laughed.
I laugh at lots of things, most things actually.

Id laugh at black jokes, Indian jokes, jokes about women....nothing is off limits for me except paedophile jokes....not that I've heard any I can think of?

There's a difference between a joke and an outright insult.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:29 pm

eddie wrote:Oh I don't know didge. It was funny and I laughed.
I laugh at lots of things, most things actually.

Id laugh at black jokes, Indian jokes, jokes about women....nothing is off limits for me except paedophile jokes....not that I've heard any I can think of?

There's a difference between a joke and an outright insult.

This is the point Eddie.
You have no conception how such a stereotype was actively used to dehumanize the Jews, to the extent, the Nazi's were so successful of promoting this hate, many Germans viewed exterminating them, as if jews were no more than a pest infestation, that needed removing. So you would not normally view humans as less human would you? We do with some people, for example. Those who commit crimes. By dehumanizing criminals, allows it to be far easier for all of us to not suffer from any guilt at their incarceration

So even more to the point why people need to learn from history and why such a view of Jews, may seem funny to you Eddie. Which is understandable. Is because you have no conception of what it feels like to have people hating you as a Jew. Now this would apply to me on of how females view and suffer discrimination and prejudice? What would I need to identify by? So in order to allow me being at least able to understand what it is like for a woman suffering sexism?

So again not having a go and see your reasoning, but have you at all viewed what he said, if you were a Jew reading that?

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:47 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

That's what I dislike about religion. The 'ours is the best' type of mentality some people have.

Is that why there are many Atheist Jews them?

Being that a Jewish identity is many things

Please edcuate your poor understanding it seems

Jewish identity is the objective or subjective state of perceiving oneself as a Jew and as relating to being Jewish.[1] Under a broader definition, Jewish identity does not depend on whether a person is regarded as a Jew by others, or by an external set of religious, or legal, or sociological norms. Jewish identity does not need to imply religious orthodoxy. Accordingly, Jewish identity can be cultural in nature. Jewish identity can involve ties to the Jewish community. Orthodox Judaism bases Jewishness on matrilineal descent. According to Jewish law (halacha), all those born of a Jewish mother are Jewish, regardless of personal beliefs or level of observance of Jewish law.

You I guess need to further understand as the article indicates on how to understand a problem.Its asking you to place yourself in their shoes to understand, but never mind, am happy to correct your evident ignorance here

I don't actually give a shit, to be honest. tongue

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:53 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:

Is that why there are many Atheist Jews them?

Being that a Jewish identity is many things

Please edcuate your poor understanding it seems

Jewish identity is the objective or subjective state of perceiving oneself as a Jew and as relating to being Jewish.[1] Under a broader definition, Jewish identity does not depend on whether a person is regarded as a Jew by others, or by an external set of religious, or legal, or sociological norms. Jewish identity does not need to imply religious orthodoxy. Accordingly, Jewish identity can be cultural in nature. Jewish identity can involve ties to the Jewish community. Orthodox Judaism bases Jewishness on matrilineal descent. According to Jewish law (halacha), all those born of a Jewish mother are Jewish, regardless of personal beliefs or level of observance of Jewish law.

You I guess need to further understand as the article indicates on how to understand a problem.Its asking you to place yourself in their shoes to understand, but never mind, am happy to correct your evident ignorance here

I don't actually give a shit, to be honest.

Which is why, you Horatio. Actually prove, more than anything, people likje you, have no ability to understand what its like to be hated simple for identifing as a Jew.
In the 1930's m,any European people thought exactly the same way that you did, by not giving ta shit.
Pray tell me. How many millions ended up dying?

Whijh backs my point

Either you take racism seriously, never making excuses, or you allow like as you have done. Challenging.
So again, tell the forum here. How you just openly and were being honest saying you do not give a shit about the discrimination of oters?

by HoratioTarr Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:02 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I don't actually give a shit, to be honest.

Which is why, you Horatio. Actually prove, more than anything, people likje you, have no ability to understand what its like to be hated simple for identifing as a Jew.
In the 1930's m,any European people thought exactly the same way that you did, by not giving ta shit.
Pray tell me. How many millions ended up dying?

Whijh backs my point

Either you take racism seriously, never making excuses, or you allow like as you have done. Challenging.
So again, tell the forum here. How you just openly and were being honest saying you do not give a shit about the discrimination of oters?

You're a pedantic pretentious bore. That's why I don't take you seriously. No matter what anyone posts in reply to you, you twist it to your own ends. So, yes, I don't give a shit about you or your posts.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:09 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Didge wrote:

Which is why, you Horatio. Actually prove, more than anything, people likje you, have no ability to understand what its like to be hated simple for identifing as a Jew.
In the 1930's m,any European people thought exactly the same way that you did, by not giving ta shit.
Pray tell me. How many millions ended up dying?

Whijh backs my point

Either you take racism seriously, never making excuses, or you allow like as you have done. Challenging.
So again, tell the forum here. How you just openly and were being honest saying you do not give a shit about the discrimination of oters?

You're a pedantic pretentious bore. That's why I don't take you seriously. No matter what anyone posts in reply to you, you twist it to your own ends. So, yes, I don't give a shit about you or your posts.

Why are you upset?

History will help you here understand why you lack the ability to learn from the past?

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:25 pm

At least I don't have to try to read that article yet again. I'm trying to be Jewish as we speak, but it's not easy.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:At least I don't have to try to read that article yet again. I'm trying to be Jewish as we speak, but it's not easy.

Of course its not easy Rags, but now you understand why he would now of all times identify himself openly as a Jew. To further understand.
It would be extremely difficult for both of us to achieve knowing fully.
I am a big defender of Free speech.
I just want, that when something is inherently derisive to the nation is invited her to speak. We should look with further interests to see the results and any correlations.

by Guest Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:57 pm

Bumoed for Victor to explain why he never jumped in to question?

by Victorismyhero Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:15 am

hmmm...

I read it....and then thought "EH" and "wot"

I can sort of see his point...

but...

if we are ALL going to "celebrate our heritage"....

does that mean I can be a Norman knight, riding around in a tin suit beheading saxon peasants?

I mean..its kinda what they did...

I dont think you need to undergo this kind of mental exercise to understand that anti semetism is wrong..It is quite possible to understand that even from an isolated and entirely detached point of view...

However I DO think too much is being made of it, folks see antisemetism in exactly the same place as others see lizard alien overlords....

as to previous comments....

HT...dont be personal...regardless of how tempting it may be TY

DIDGE...please dont be so condescending...people are entitled to an opinion, even if it opposes yours, your task is then to show how that opinion is wrong (if it actually is) NOT brow beat them into submission and also to accept that sometimes...you have to agree to disagree....

by Victorismyhero Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:19 am

also didge...and others ...I also recognise that some degree of contention is going to happen...

It would be very wrong to stifle all dissagreement ...even when that disagreement is disagreeable, to te point of strangling "free exchange of opinion"

what I DONT want is threads descending into chaos over some minor spat and a bit of name calling...

by all means...call each other a dick...then leave it there....

no need to turn a few cross words into a shitfeat

OK??????

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:29 am

Agree with Victor...
By this logic I need to jump on horse and start ramming a lance through things/people that disagree with my god/church.

by Guest Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:29 am

Oh come Victor, we both know Ben, Bee and others tried to derail the thread proving what regressive they are, where their view is superior to all others. making them about the most prejudiced and discriminating of all political walks of l;ife.
I did not report it, mainly as they were being so petty

As to the point on antisemitism, the p[oint you can never begon to answer, understand etc. Is you have taken a precedence of teh current situation based off how you perceive prejudice and hate of Jews or israeli's
perceived, Again denying you to be in nny informed position to say otherwise.

Lets just also stop with the bull. It does not matter where it is antisemitism or any form of prejudice or the promotion to discriminate against a group using guilt by association. We both know the regressive left suffer a malfunction, whenever they cannot relate to white Gult syndrome

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