Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:33 pm

According to Joan Bakewell it is. She added that "no one has anorexia in societies where there is not enough food"
People with the mental illness have been upset by her comments....she later apologised.
Does she have a point?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35801027

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:38 pm

A very interesting question. Here we have the issue of "narcissism" coming up again.

I see what she means. If anorexia nervosa stems from a desire to be thin and therefore attractive, I guess one could say it stems from narcissism. However, it's not really as simple as that as most people like to do things which make them feel attractive, and that doesn't make them narcissists. It could be said to stem from a lack of confidence, a need to have control over something - ie, their appetite and/or weight, and a desire to fit in or follow the herd.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:A very interesting question. Here we have the issue of "narcissism" coming up again.

I see what she means. If anorexia nervosa stems from a desire to be thin and therefore attractive, I guess one could say it stems from narcissism. However, it's not really as simple as that as most people like to do things which make them feel attractive, and that doesn't make them narcissists. It could be said to stem from a lack of confidence, a need to have control over something - ie, their appetite and/or weight, and a desire to fit in or follow the herd.

It's not all about vanity is it.....like you say other factors come into it.
I knew someone with bulimia once, she didn't act that way in order to satisfy herself then throw up to be slim....it was very complex, she was incredibly unhappy and her unhappiness manifested itself like this.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:46 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:A very interesting question. Here we have the issue of "narcissism" coming up again.

I see what she means. If anorexia nervosa stems from a desire to be thin and therefore attractive, I guess one could say it stems from narcissism. However, it's not really as simple as that as most people like to do things which make them feel attractive, and that doesn't make them narcissists. It could be said to stem from a lack of confidence, a need to have control over something - ie, their appetite and/or weight, and a desire to fit in or follow the herd.

It's not all about vanity is it.....like you say other factors come into it.
I knew someone with bulimia once, she didn't act that way in order to satisfy herself then throw up to be slim....it was very complex, she was incredibly unhappy and her unhappiness manifested itself like this.

Superficially speaking, I think they do it to be slim, but the question is - why do they feel the need to damage their health in order to be slim?

by eddie Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:03 pm

Anorexia is not about being slim - or it may start off that way possibly with some - it's about control.
Most anorexia sufferers are people who feel they have no control over their lives and eating/not eating is something they have total control over.

It's not about staying slim or about weight, becasue many sufferers can actually see how malnourished they are but once in the mental grip of anorexia it's hard to give up the control they have.

What is interesting is WHY this happens in counties or places where there is little access to food.
Possibly becaeue people in those places have proper things to worry about ie survival...?!

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

It's not all about vanity is it.....like you say other factors come into it.
I knew someone with bulimia once, she didn't act that way in order to satisfy herself then throw up to be slim....it was very complex, she was incredibly unhappy and her unhappiness manifested itself like this.

Superficially speaking, I think they do it to be slim, but the question is - why do they feel the need to damage their health in order to be slim?

No doubt some start off dieting to be slim....women and girls are supposed to be perfect after all to enable them to be successful, pretty, and to catch a man...the airbrushed magazines drum that into young girls from an early age.

But sometimes it's nothing to do with that, it's something that can stem from childhood abuse, or unhappiness in life, it's the one thing that a person can control themselves.....sometimes they feel what they eat is the ONLY thing they are in control of.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:05 pm

eddie wrote:Anorexia is not about being slim - or it may start off that way possibly with some - it's about control.
Most anorexia sufferers are people who feel they have no control over their lives and eating/not eating is something they have total control over.

It's not about staying slim or about weight, becasue many sufferers can actually see how malnourished they are but once in the mental grip of anorexia it's hard to give up the control they have.

What is interesting is WHY this happens in counties or places where there is little access to food.
Possibly becaeue people in those places have proper things to worry about ie survival...?!

It's about both. If it was only about control, they wouldn't be weighing themselves and panicking if they didn't lose weight or put weight on.

It could be a form of self-punishment for some I guess. After all, not eating takes a lot of willpower really, and they might see that as a way to redeem themselves.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:07 pm

I think it's also a way not to "grow up". Little girls are generally small and slight, so the anorexic might be trying to recreate that in order to avoid being an adult with responsibilities.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:09 pm

It's a very complex illness....as in bulimia, which is even more repugnant to some people.

by eddie Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:10 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Anorexia is not about being slim - or it may start off that way possibly with some - it's about control.
Most anorexia sufferers are people who feel they have no control over their lives and eating/not eating is something they have total control over.

It's not about staying slim or about weight, becasue many sufferers can actually see how malnourished they are but once in the mental grip of anorexia it's hard to give up the control they have.

What is interesting is WHY this happens in counties or places where there is little access to food.
Possibly becaeue people in those places have proper things to worry about ie survival...?!

It's about both. If it was only about control, they wouldn't be weighing themselves and panicking if they didn't lose weight or put weight on.

It could be a form of self-punishment for some I guess. After all, not eating takes a lot of willpower really, and they might see that as a way to redeem themselves.

They weight themselves because it becomes a challenge and their own "war" it is all about control.
Even when they are on the brink of death they know they need to eat and they don't care about what they look like, they just want control over their lives.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:10 pm

Syl wrote:It's a very complex illness....as in bulimia, which is even more repugnant to some people.

I see bulimia as being even more about controlling weight or size. After all, the element of control re resisting the natural urge to eat is not present.

by eddie Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:11 pm

This is very informative

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hunger-artist/200908/five-anorexia-myths-exploded

Pay attention to myth #5

It might seem to contradict the previous myth, but being thin is in fact often only a minor matter compared to everything else that drives you. As I said in reply to a comment last week, control is probably at the centre of it all: thinness is simply an effect, a demonstration to yourself and to others. Control of food and eating might be the most obvious anorexic behaviour, but the control illusion stretches its tentacles into all the rest of life: you have complete control over how much you work, say, and when; how much you spend; how many people you spend time with, how often, and in what context. And all of these things, being so controlled, shrink and shrink away as your body does, till going out for a drink on a Saturday night is as impossible as stopping work before your head is spinning, or spending anything without entering into your little expenses book, or going to bed before five in the morning, or not having the next day and week and month planned into nothingness. The whole constellation of ideals that clusters around the concept of control validates and reinforces all this: control equals strength, strength equals denial, denial equals simplicity, simplicity equals purity, purity equals perfection, perfection equals perfect control.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:19 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's about both. If it was only about control, they wouldn't be weighing themselves and panicking if they didn't lose weight or put weight on.

It could be a form of self-punishment for some I guess. After all, not eating takes a lot of willpower really, and they might see that as a way to redeem themselves.

They weight themselves because it becomes a challenge and their own "war" it is all about control.
Even when they are on the brink of death they know they need to eat and they don't care about what they look like, they just want control over their lives.

It's also possible that some don't particularly want to live at that point anyway. It depends on why they developed anorexia nervosa in the first place. If it's a form of self-flagellation, they don't want to reward themselves by getting better and eating again.

Also, some can't physically eat, at which point it might be a psychological issue any more. They can go into hospital of course and be fed via a tube, but that's probably a bit grim.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:21 pm

eddie wrote:Anorexia is not about being slim - or it may start off that way possibly with some - it's about control.
Most anorexia sufferers are people who feel they have no control over their lives and eating/not eating is something they have total control over.

It's not about staying slim or about weight, becasue many sufferers can actually see how malnourished they are but once in the mental grip of anorexia it's hard to give up the control they have.

What is interesting is WHY this happens in counties or places where there is little access to food.
Possibly becaeue people in those places have proper things to worry about ie survival...?!

Bulimia and anorexia probably only does happen in 'wealthy' countries, as do many other illnesses and diseases that a western lifestyle bring, both physical and mental.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:It's a very complex illness....as in bulimia, which is even more repugnant to some people.

I see bulimia as being even more about controlling weight or size. After all, the element of control re resisting the natural urge to eat is not present.

I'm not sure that vanity has anything to do with it though. The urge to eat is a compulsion....then they purge through guilt and to gain relief.
Its a catch 22....they cant purge if they don't eat, and purging is the relief.
Same as self harming and cutting.

by eddie Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:26 pm

eddie wrote:This is very informative

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hunger-artist/200908/five-anorexia-myths-exploded

Pay attention to myth #5

It might seem to contradict the previous myth, but being thin is in fact often only a minor matter compared to everything else that drives you. As I said in reply to a comment last week, control is probably at the centre of it all: thinness is simply an effect, a demonstration to yourself and to others. Control of food and eating might be the most obvious anorexic behaviour, but the control illusion stretches its tentacles into all the rest of life: you have complete control over how much you work, say, and when; how much you spend; how many people you spend time with, how often, and in what context. And all of these things, being so controlled, shrink and shrink away as your body does, till going out for a drink on a Saturday night is as impossible as stopping work before your head is spinning, or spending anything without entering into your little expenses book, or going to bed before five in the morning, or not having the next day and week and month planned into nothingness. The whole constellation of ideals that clusters around the concept of control validates and reinforces all this: control equals strength, strength equals denial, denial equals simplicity, simplicity equals purity, purity equals perfection, perfection equals perfect control.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:26 pm

In countries where there's less food, it wouldn't be a problem to stay slim presumably, and stopping eating wouldn't be the natural choice in order to exert control over oneself because it wouldn't require that much effort. Perhaps people in those countries have other ways of doing so.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:27 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I see bulimia as being even more about controlling weight or size. After all, the element of control re resisting the natural urge to eat is not present.

I'm not sure that vanity has anything to do with it though. The urge to eat is a compulsion....then they purge through guilt and to gain relief.
Its a catch 22....they cant purge if they don't eat, and purging is the relief.
Same as self harming and cutting.

Yes, but they're not exerting control over their own appetite and holding out against the will to eat are they?

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

I'm not sure that vanity has anything to do with it though. The urge to eat is a compulsion....then they purge through guilt and to gain relief.
Its a catch 22....they cant purge if they don't eat, and purging is the relief.
Same as self harming and cutting.

Yes, but they're not exerting control over their own appetite and holding out against the will to eat are they?

No...they cant control their appetite, but they eat so they can get rid....it's a horrible way to live.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:35 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but they're not exerting control over their own appetite and holding out against the will to eat are they?

No...they cant control their appetite, but they eat so they can get rid....it's a horrible way to live.

Do they? Perhaps they eat because they can't control the urge to do so, but then they don't want to gain weight, so they throw it up afterwards.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:38 pm

There is apparently a rise in anorexia amongst middle aged women.

I think that is possibly because women in particular have been told that they'll probably gain weight as they get older, particularly after the menopause. It's my opinion that it's not inevitable, but apparently those who do put weight on tend to put it on around their middle, which isn't a good look really. They might attempt to stay "young" by being slim, or they might pre-empt any possible weight gain by eating very little.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

No...they cant control their appetite, but they eat so they can get rid....it's a horrible way to live.

Do they? Perhaps they eat because they can't control the urge to do so, but then they don't want to gain weight, so they throw it up afterwards.

Well I'm no expert but the person I knew ate huge amounts in order to throw up.....it was the throwing up that gave her relief.....I liken it to people who cut themselves to gain relief.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:There is apparently a rise in anorexia amongst middle aged women.

I think that is possibly because women in particular have been told that they'll probably gain weight as they get older, particularly after the menopause. It's my opinion that it's not inevitable, but apparently those who do put weight on tend to put it on around their middle, which isn't a good look really. They might attempt to stay "young" by being slim, or they might pre-empt any possible weight gain by eating very little.

Most of the women I know are on some kind of diet a lot of the time.
I have never dieted in my life and they see me as the odd one out. Razz

edit...that sounds frivolous in this thread, obviously dieting has nothing to do with anorexia.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:47 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Do they? Perhaps they eat because they can't control the urge to do so, but then they don't want to gain weight, so they throw it up afterwards.

Well I'm no expert but the person I knew ate huge amounts in order to throw up.....it was the throwing up that gave her relief.....I liken it to people who cut themselves to gain relief.

Hmmmmm, the cutting issue is also complex. I see two main possibilities there. Firstly, if they hurt themselves, the pain and subsequent clean up operation will provide some respite from whatever is going on their head. Secondly, it might again be a form of self-flagellation whereby they think they need to be punished.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Well I'm no expert but the person I knew ate huge amounts in order to throw up.....it was the throwing up that gave her relief.....I liken it to people who cut themselves to gain relief.

Hmmmmm, the cutting issue is also complex. I see two main possibilities there. Firstly, if they hurt themselves, the pain and subsequent clean up operation will provide some respite from whatever is going on their head. Secondly, it might again be a form of self-flagellation whereby they think they need to be punished.

It's hard to understand why anyone would do these things, I think it's a compulsion, but I also think rather than punishing themselves they do it to release pent up anger or hurt that's buried within them.

by Sponsored content

Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?

Re: Is anorexia a sign of narcissism?