Dangerous global warming will happen sooner than thought – study

Australian researchers say a global tracker monitoring energy use per person points to 2C warming by 2030

The world is on track to reach dangerous levels of global warming much sooner than expected, according to new Australian research that highlights the alarming implications of rising energy demand.

University of Queensland and Griffith University researchers have developed a “global energy tracker” which predicts average world temperatures could climb 1.5C above pre-industrial levels by 2020.

That forecast, based on new modelling using long-term average projections on economic growth, population growth and energy use per person, points to a 2C rise by 2030.

The UN conference on climate change in Paris last year agreed to a 1.5C rise as the preferred limit to protect vulnerable island states, and a 2C rise as the absolute limit.

The new modelling is the brainchild of Ben Hankamer from UQ’s institute for molecular bioscience and Liam Wagner from Griffith University’s department of accounting, finance and economics, whose work was published in the journal Plos One on Thursday.

It is the first model to include energy use per person – which has more than doubled since 1950 – alongside economic and population growth as a way of predicting carbon emissions and corresponding temperature increases.

The researchers said the earlier than expected advance of global warming revealed by their modelling added a newfound urgency to the switch from fossil fuels to renewables.

Hankamer said: “The more the economy grows, the more energy you use ... the conclusion really is that economists and environmentalists are on the same side and have both come to the same conclusion: we’ve got to act now and we don’t have much time.”

Wagner said the model suggested the surge in energy consumption was not offset by improvements in energy efficiency.

He said energy use per person was on track to rise sixfold by 2050, which had dire implications for temperatures when combined with economic growth of 3.9% a year (the six-decade average) and a world population of 9 billion.
“Massive increases in energy consumption would be necessary to alleviate poverty for the nearly 50% of the world’s population who live on less than $2.50 a day,” Wagner said.

“We have a choice: leave people in poverty and speed towards dangerous global warming through the increased use of fossil fuels, or transition rapidly to renewables.”

Hankamer said: “When you think about statements like ‘coal is good for humanity’ because we’re pulling people out of poverty, it’s just not true”.

“You would have to burn so much coal in order to get the energy to provide people with a living to get them off $2.50 a day that [temperature rises] would just go through the roof very quickly.”

The researchers suggested switching $500bn in subsidies for fossil fuels worldwide to renewables as a “cost neutral” way to fast-track the energy transition.

Wagner said pulling the rug from out under the fossil fuels industry was a move of “creative destruction” and “more a political issue rather than an economic issue”.

“If we swapped those subsidies globally, of course we could have rapid improvement and deployment of renewables to cover our shift from fossil fuels,” he said.

“You’re pushing a huge amount of capital into a different sector that requires an enormous amount of growth, so you would actually see a great deal more growth from putting it into renewables than providing it for fossil fuels.”

Hankamer said the fact that about 80% of the world’s energy was for fuel, and only 20% for electricity, meant “we don’t have any easy solutions”.

“If we want to do this, we need to do things like solar fuels, or think about how we do battery technologies and fully transition to electric,” he said.

“The things that are going to be hard to replace are aviation fuels and things for heavy machinery and probably shipping.

“We can do electric cars for short runs but those things are going to be really hard to switch.”

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/10/dangerous-global-warming-will-happen-sooner-than-thought-study?CMP=share_btn_tw

korban dallas wrote:

eddie wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:rubbish tommy ...absolute rubbish

no winter to speak of for at least 25 years...apart from "odd ones"

whereas prior to that it was freezing from novenber at least ..and snow ...and deep snow often from back end of december onwards...

unprecedented levels of rainfall, more and regular high winds....

LESS thunderstorms in late summer/autumn

Oh yes its changing alright.....

and globally too

hurricanes of greter frequency and power

oceanic currents disrupted and changed......

I have noticed, over the last six months or so, that it has got much windier too!

Stop eating beans

eddie wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:rubbish tommy ...absolute rubbish

no winter to speak of for at least 25 years...apart from "odd ones"

whereas prior to that it was freezing from novenber at least ..and snow ...and deep snow often from back end of december onwards...

unprecedented levels of rainfall, more and regular high winds....

LESS thunderstorms in late summer/autumn

Oh yes its changing alright.....

and globally too

hurricanes of greter frequency and power

oceanic currents disrupted and changed......

I have noticed, over the last six months or so, that it has got much windier too!

sassy wrote:It's really not worth discussing it with Tommy, you could show him evidence that was indisputable and he'd still say black was white.

Unfortunately, people like him with be the reason that our children and grandchildren suffer in the future.

Lord Foul wrote:rubbish tommy ...absolute rubbish

no winter to speak of for at least 25 years...apart from "odd ones"

whereas prior to that it was freezing from novenber at least ..and snow ...and deep snow often from back end of december onwards...

unprecedented levels of rainfall, more and regular high winds....

LESS thunderstorms in late summer/autumn

Oh yes its changing alright.....

and globally too

hurricanes of greter frequency and power

oceanic currents disrupted and changed......

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

And when someone claims a weather event is "unprecedented" as it has never happened 'since records began'... all that means is in the last hundred years or so!!!

And still missing a point ? actually we can go a lot further back when you look at ancient text as they often contain good historical weather data

not only that we can determine weather pattens information locked in geology and plant life ,we can analyse the content atmosphere from hundreds ,thousands if not millions of years ago  

so when you trot out "since records began" your only talking as you say about the last hundred years BUT "Written records"go back a lot further than that

Tommy Monk wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:rubbish tommy ...absolute rubbish

no winter to speak of for at least 25 years...apart from "odd ones"

whereas prior to that it was freezing from novenber at least ..and snow ...and deep snow often from back end of december onwards...

unprecedented levels of rainfall, more and regular high winds....

LESS thunderstorms in late summer/autumn

Oh yes its changing alright.....

and globally too

hurricanes of greter frequency and power

oceanic currents disrupted and changed......

Selective memory...

Bullshit......accurate memory


And you seem to be only looking at a tiny period of time...


You may as well be looking out the window one day and telling us it is different to yesterday...

Lord Foul wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



Selective memory...

Bullshit......accurate memory


And you seem to be only looking at a tiny period of time...


You may as well be looking out the window one day and telling us it is different to yesterday...

AND

whilst your point that it is naturally warming may well be true  the FACT is that we are accelerating the RATE of that change

bit like sitting in the driving seat of a runaway bus....and stepping on the gas

THAT is the problem

but dont worry Tommy, I'll save a place for you on my boat.....I need something dense for ballast

Tommy Monk wrote:


Personal weather diaries!!!


Most amusing!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

AND

whilst your point that it is naturally warming may well be true  the FACT is that we are accelerating the RATE of that change

bit like sitting in the driving seat of a runaway bus....and stepping on the gas

THAT is the problem

but dont worry Tommy, I'll save a place for you on my boat.....I need something dense for ballast

No... bit like a bus being caught up in a slow tail back for miles and then getting back to normal speed...!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Personal weather diaries!!!

Most amusing!!!

why is it amusing ?
i run a weather site My local data is uploaded to the Met office
personal diary's are a great source for data now and historicaly  

These early back yard units were highly regarded for early warning systems for local: farmers and tornado activity and essential for aiding the local media trying to stay ahead of on coming torrential rains and high winds {pre-radar systems} --- and you scoff at there ability and importance! 

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



No... bit like a bus being caught up in a slow tail back for miles and then getting back to normal speed...!!!

rubbish analogy doesn`t even make sense

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
why is it amusing ?
i run a weather site My local data is uploaded to the Met office
personal diary's are a great source for data now and historicaly  

Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you

Tommy Monk wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
rubbish analogy doesn`t even make sense

Does make sense... Vic is acknowledging that the warming may well be natural... but then trying to say we are also somehow the cause of it and making it happen quicker and maybe out of control with our foot on the gas of a run away bus etc!!!


I am saying that we are passengers on the bus that has been going a bit slower than normal because of outside influences... but is now just getting back to regular speed of travel... and will then carry on as usual  

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
why is it amusing ?
i run a weather site My local data is uploaded to the Met office
personal diary's are a great source for data now and historicaly  

Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you

Fortunately mine is wireless so no elements for me

hoping to upgrade my watson solar to  a vantage pro when i can afford it And working on receiving NOAA Meteosat, GOES, GMS, FY, Insat data and decoding the weather data from transmitted from space

Tommy Monk wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you

OK... so how far back would these 'weather stations' have records from...!?

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
why is it amusing ?
i run a weather site My local data is uploaded to the Met office
personal diary's are a great source for data now and historicaly  

Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you


Early 1900's weather data stations resembled > > >

    


2010 weather data stations resemble > > >

 
Website: http://weatherbug.com
Location: Germantown, MD
Members: 509  *** and that group number is just in Maryland, USA

Anyone may order these and obtain a 'LINK UP' to the NOAA weather station in their specific area 
[img(255px,208px):058c]http://www.weatherspares.co.uk/ekmps/shops/43f82b/images/oregon-scientific-full-weather-station-with-7-day-data-logger-and-usb-wmr89-[4]-364-p.jpg[/img:058c] 
These early back yard units were highly regarded for early warning systems for local: farmers and tornado activity and essential for aiding the local media trying to stay ahead of on coming torrential rains and high winds {pre-radar systems} --- and you scoff at there ability and importance! 

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
OK... so how far back would these 'weather stations' have records from...!?

well at least Egyptian times and further back

remember keeping track of the seasons and weather  pattens was very important  for ancient people and the development of agriculture

An inscription on a 3,500-year-old stone block from Egypt may be one of the world's oldest weather reports -- and could provide new evidence about the chronology of events in the ancient Middle East.
A new translation of a 40-line inscription on the 6-foot-tall calcite block called the Tempest Stela describes rain, darkness and "the sky being in storm without cessation, louder than the cries of the masses."
Two scholars at the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute believe the unusual weather patterns described on the slab were the result of a massive volcano explosion at Thera -- the present-day island of Santorini in the Mediterranean Sea. Because volcano eruptions can have a widespread impact on weather, the Thera explosion likely would have caused significant disruptions in Egypt.
The new translation suggests the Egyptian pharaoh Ahmose ruled at a time closer to the Thera eruption than previously thought -- a finding that could change scholars' understanding of a critical juncture in human history as Bronze Age empires realigned. The research from the Oriental Institute's Nadine Moeller and Robert Ritner appears in the spring issue of the Journal of Near Eastern Studies.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140401172908.htm

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
Fortunately mine is wireless so no elements for me

hoping to upgrade my watson solar to  a vantage pro when i can afford it And working on receiving NOAA Meteosat, GOES, GMS, FY, Insat data and decoding the weather data from transmitted from space

Yes, indeed...I found some images of the earliest known backyard weather stations and some of the most recent ones and the box that anyone can order for their own use! I edited/updated my post.

 Rather sad that humans like Tommy, scoff at what has been used for hundreds of years that predate our meteorologists being able to link up to Doppler radars and tell us what's coming in our general area!

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you


Early 1900's weather data stations resembled > > >

    


2010 weather data stations resemble > > >

 
Website: http://weatherbug.com
Location: Germantown, MD
Members: 509  *** and that group number is just in Maryland, USA

Anyone may order these and obtain a 'LINK UP' to the NOAA weather station in their specific area 
[img(255px,208px):fb62]http://www.weatherspares.co.uk/ekmps/shops/43f82b/images/oregon-scientific-full-weather-station-with-7-day-data-logger-and-usb-wmr89-[4]-364-p.jpg[/img:fb62] 
These early back yard units were highly regarded for early warning systems for local: farmers and tornado activity and essential for aiding the local media trying to stay ahead of on coming torrential rains and high winds {pre-radar systems} --- and you scoff at there ability and importance! 

Great pictures and the link to the NOAA link very interesting (will check that out )

At the moment i am using a funcube pro http://funcube.org.uk/    and a SDR(software defined radio) connected to a full wave silver rod (antenna) what i really need is a QFH antenna
just not got round to building one yet (lazy)
[img(303px,243px):fb62]http://www.weatherspares.co.uk/ekmps/shops/43f82b/images/oregon-scientific-full-weather-station-with-7-day-data-logger-and-usb-wmr89-[4]-364-p.jpg[/img:fb62]

thats a vantage in the picture
and i am a member of weatherbug.com

will post a picture when its light enough to take some

Tommy posted > So you "found some images of the earliest known backyard weather stations"...!?
Er... the picture you showed was with the header claiming "early 1900's weather stations"...!
But then you say I'm scoffing at "what has been used for hundreds of years"...!!!

Eruption of Thera recorded in ancient Egypt weather report?

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
well at least Egyptian times and further back

remember keeping track of the seasons and weather  pattens was very important  for ancient people and the development of agriculture

Absolutely, KD...and if dear young Tommy was as fascinated about the topic as he is with standing resolute to his SOS ability then he'd be doing his own 'let his fingers do the walking via Bing/Google' to find what he so sorely lacks!

But as our technology in dating ancient ruins and reading the hieroglyphs inscribed upon those old weather beaten stones the more we able to date specific global events for ie >>>

An inscription on a 3,500-year-old stone block from Egypt may be one of the world's oldest weather reports -- and could provide new evidence about the chronology of events in the ancient Middle East.
A new translation of a 40-line inscription on the 6-foot-tall calcite block called the Tempest Stela describes rain, darkness and "the sky being in storm without cessation, louder than the cries of the masses."
Two scholars at the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute believe the unusual weather patterns described on the slab were the result of a massive volcano explosion at Thera -- the present-day island of Santorini in the Mediterranean Sea. Because volcano eruptions can have a widespread impact on weather, the Thera explosion likely would have caused significant disruptions in Egypt.
The new translation suggests the Egyptian pharaoh Ahmose ruled at a time closer to the Thera eruption than previously thought -- a finding that could change scholars' understanding of a critical juncture in human history as Bronze Age empires realigned. The research from the Oriental Institute's Nadine Moeller and Robert Ritner appears in the spring issue of the Journal of Near Eastern Studies.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140401172908.htm

But I'm finding the lack of being able to 'do one's own reading & STFW' seems to be problematic within some of our fellow members; they want to be spoon fed all of the data that 'WE' have read and stay current with and then nit-pick {similar to primates going in after ticks/lice} every opinion and link that we give them! 

• 3000 BC – The beginnings of meteorology can be traced back in India to 3000 B.C.E.^[1] Writings such as the Upanishads, contain serious discussion about the processes of cloud formation and rain and the seasonal cycles caused by the movement of earth round the sun.
  
• 600 BC – Thales may qualify as the first Greek meteorologist. He described the water cycle in a fairly accurate way. He also issued the first seasonal crop forecast.^[2]
  
• 400 BC – There is some evidence that Democritus predicted changes in the weather, and that he used this ability to convince people that he could predict other future events.^[3]
  
• 400 BC – Hippocrates writes a treatise called Airs, Waters and Places, the earliest known work to include a discussion of weather. More generally, he wrote about common diseases that occur in particular locations, seasons, winds and air.^[3]
  
• 350 BC – Aristotle writes Meteorology.
  

• 250 BC – Archimedes studies the concepts of buoyancy and the hydrostatic principle. Positive buoyancy is necessary for the formation of convective clouds (cumulus, cumulus congestus and cumulonimbus).^[3]
  
• 25 AD – Pomponius Mela, a geographer for the Roman empire, formalizes the climatic zone system.^[5]
  
• c. 80 AD – In his Lunheng (論衡; Critical Essays), the Han Dynasty Chinese philosopher Wang Chong (27–97 AD) dispels the Chinese myth of rain coming from the heavens, and states that rain is evaporated from water on the earth into the air and forms clouds, stating that clouds condense into rain and also form dew, and says when the clothes of people in high mountains are moistened, this is because of the air-suspended rain water.^[6] However, Wang Chong supports his theory by quoting a similar one of Gongyang Gao's,^[6] the latter's commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals, the Gongyang Zhuan, compiled in the 2nd century BC,^[6] showing that the Chinese conception of rain evaporating and rising to form clouds goes back much farther than Wang Chong. Wang Chong wrote:
  

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
Great pictures and the link to the NOAA link very interesting (will check that out )

At the moment i am using a funcube pro http://funcube.org.uk/    and a SDR(software defined radio) connected to a full wave silver rod (antenna) what i really need is a QFH antenna
just not got round to building one yet (lazy)
[img(303px,243px):5b06]http://www.weatherspares.co.uk/ekmps/shops/43f82b/images/oregon-scientific-full-weather-station-with-7-day-data-logger-and-usb-wmr89-[4]-364-p.jpg[/img:5b06]

thats a vantage in the picture
and i am a member of weatherbug.com

will post a picture when its light enough to take some

When I first notice one of those slanted wooden boxes --- it was when I was helping my older sibling pick some peaches and the land owner only had that one up on a 4' stand --- I was avoiding it like a plague --- I just thought it was some single type of bee - keeper and I was highly allergic to bee stings.  Well that great guy showed up with his wife to get his daily numbers and opened up; we asked him what he was doing and one thing let to another and we got a free weather data lesson right then and there {circa 1960 something}...I was hooked.

aspca4ever wrote:Rather scary how liked minded we are in just our reading material...my friend from across the pond; I just dumped that very same article back up there for young Tommy!  Not that he'd be troubled to read it or be able to comprehend it...but it's a worthy link and exciting discovery sitting there just waiting to be transcribed after all those centuries! 

How dang amazing is that???  LOL

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:

When I first notice one of those slanted wooden boxes --- it was when I was helping my older sibling pick some peaches and the land owner only had that one up on a 4' stand --- I was avoiding it like a plague --- I just thought it was some single type of bee - keeper and I was highly allergic to bee stings.  Well that great guy showed up with his wife to get his daily numbers and opened up; we asked him what he was doing and one thing let to another and we got a free weather data lesson right then and there {circa 1960 something}...I was hooked.

The slanted wooden box is a Stevenson Screen always fancied a big one with historical instrument`s in it (Geek alert)

sassy wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:Rather scary how liked minded we are in just our reading material...my friend from across the pond; I just dumped that very same article back up there for young Tommy!  Not that he'd be troubled to read it or be able to comprehend it...but it's a worthy link and exciting discovery sitting there just waiting to be transcribed after all those centuries! 

How dang amazing is that???  LOL

I didn't notice that, bloody hell, that's spooky lol

korban dallas wrote:

sassy wrote:


I didn't notice that, bloody hell, that's spooky lol

No nether amazing nor spooky We are all on the same page
poor old Tommy is still on the index

















Of another book

sassy wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
No nether amazing nor spooky We are all on the same page
poor old Tommy is still on the index

















Of another book

And he's reading it on another planet!

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
well at least Egyptian times and further back

remember keeping track of the seasons and weather  pattens was very important  for ancient people and the development of agriculture

Absolutely, KD...and if dear young Tommy was as fascinated about the topic as he is with standing resolute to his SOS ability then he'd be doing his own 'let his fingers do the walking via Bing/Google' to find what he so sorely lacks!

But as our technology in dating ancient ruins and reading the hieroglyphs inscribed upon those old weather beaten stones the more we able to date specific global events for ie >>>

An inscription on a 3,500-year-old stone block from Egypt may be one of the world's oldest weather reports -- and could provide new evidence about the chronology of events in the ancient Middle East.
A new translation of a 40-line inscription on the 6-foot-tall calcite block called the Tempest Stela describes rain, darkness and "the sky being in storm without cessation, louder than the cries of the masses."
Two scholars at the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute believe the unusual weather patterns described on the slab were the result of a massive volcano explosion at Thera -- the present-day island of Santorini in the Mediterranean Sea. Because volcano eruptions can have a widespread impact on weather, the Thera explosion likely would have caused significant disruptions in Egypt.
The new translation suggests the Egyptian pharaoh Ahmose ruled at a time closer to the Thera eruption than previously thought -- a finding that could change scholars' understanding of a critical juncture in human history as Bronze Age empires realigned. The research from the Oriental Institute's Nadine Moeller and Robert Ritner appears in the spring issue of the Journal of Near Eastern Studies.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140401172908.htm

But I'm finding the lack of being able to 'do one's own reading & STFW' seems to be problematic within some of our fellow members; they want to be spoon fed all of the data that 'WE' have read and stay current with and then nit-pick {similar to primates going in after ticks/lice} every opinion and link that we give them! 

Tommy posted > My first post on thread...

"While back in the real world... when you look back over a much longer period of history... way back beyond the last hundred years or so of the much proclaimed benchmark of normal 'since records began' stuff... you will quickly see that things have been both much warmer and much cooler than today..."

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
why is it amusing ?
i run a weather site My local data is uploaded to the Met office
personal diary's are a great source for data now and historicaly  

Here in the USA there a Personal {back yard} weather data stations a plenty; I used to go out to an elderly gentlemen's in icy/snow/heavy down pours to collect the data for him when he was ill or in danger from the elements!!!

WHEW~~~Tommy   you do seem to enjoy the hefty lifting and sweat equity in your proving lack of knowledge for this single topic! 
Makes me wonder if it's only to keep the adults responding to you

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
Absolutely, KD...and if dear young Tommy was as fascinated about the topic as he is with standing resolute to his SOS ability then he'd be doing his own 'let his fingers do the walking via Bing/Google' to find what he so sorely lacks!

But as our technology in dating ancient ruins and reading the hieroglyphs inscribed upon those old weather beaten stones the more we able to date specific global events for ie >>>

But I'm finding the lack of being able to 'do one's own reading & STFW' seems to be problematic within some of our fellow members; they want to be spoon fed all of the data that 'WE' have read and stay current with and then nit-pick {similar to primates going in after ticks/lice} every opinion and link that we give them! 

Yes research
i think it was Tommy that claimed he doesn`t do "research" ....

but that was obvious,
self inflicted stupidity is hard to cure,  first he would have to admit to him self
he had a problem  and he had developed a genuine willingness to learn

Tommy Monk wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
Absolutely, KD...and if dear young Tommy was as fascinated about the topic as he is with standing resolute to his SOS ability then he'd be doing his own 'let his fingers do the walking via Bing/Google' to find what he so sorely lacks!

But as our technology in dating ancient ruins and reading the hieroglyphs inscribed upon those old weather beaten stones the more we able to date specific global events for ie >>>

But I'm finding the lack of being able to 'do one's own reading & STFW' seems to be problematic within some of our fellow members; they want to be spoon fed all of the data that 'WE' have read and stay current with and then nit-pick {similar to primates going in after ticks/lice} every opinion and link that we give them! 

I'm flabbergasted at how much you two are trying to twist things round here...


The original thread and discussion was based on the claim that we are facing unprecedented global warming/temperatures etc... based on recent "since records began" data that only covers the last hundred years or so, and on pure fantastical speculation into the future unknown...


It was me who pointed out the extremely limited scope of the "since records began" claims... and I said that there is plenty of other historical and geological evidence of much warmer and cooler periods here and when this was taken into consideration, along with the fact that we are emerging from a mini ice age etc, then everything that is happening now is well within what is considerably normal!!!


My first post on thread...

"While back in the real world... when you look back over a much longer period of history... way back beyond the last hundred years or so of the much proclaimed benchmark of normal 'since records began' stuff... you will quickly see that things have been both much warmer and much cooler than today..."



I was attacked for pointing this out on page 1...


But now I'm being attacked for supposedly NOT knowing about what I was pointing out on page 1...!!!

sassy wrote:

• 3000 BC – The beginnings of meteorology can be traced back in India to 3000 B.C.E.^[1] Writings such as the Upanishads, contain serious discussion about the processes of cloud formation and rain and the seasonal cycles caused by the movement of earth round the sun.
  
• 600 BC – Thales may qualify as the first Greek meteorologist. He described the water cycle in a fairly accurate way. He also issued the first seasonal crop forecast.^[2]
  
• 400 BC – There is some evidence that Democritus predicted changes in the weather, and that he used this ability to convince people that he could predict other future events.^[3]
  
• 400 BC – Hippocrates writes a treatise called Airs, Waters and Places, the earliest known work to include a discussion of weather. More generally, he wrote about common diseases that occur in particular locations, seasons, winds and air.^[3]
  
• 350 BC – Aristotle writes Meteorology.
  

Although the term meteorology is used today to describe a subdiscipline of the atmospheric sciences, Aristotle's work is more general. The work touches upon much of what is known as the earth sciences. In his own words: ...all the affections we may call common to air and water, and the kinds and parts of the earth and the affections of its parts.^[4]


Aristotle
One of the most impressive achievements in Meteorology is his description of what is now known as the hydrologic cycle: Now the sun, moving as it does, sets up processes of change and becoming and decay, and by its agency the finest and sweetest water is every day carried up and is dissolved into vapour and rises to the upper region, where it is condensed again by the cold and so returns to the earth.^[4]

• 250 BC – Archimedes studies the concepts of buoyancy and the hydrostatic principle. Positive buoyancy is necessary for the formation of convective clouds (cumulus, cumulus congestus and cumulonimbus).^[3]
  
• 25 AD – Pomponius Mela, a geographer for the Roman empire, formalizes the climatic zone system.^[5]
  
• c. 80 AD – In his Lunheng (論衡; Critical Essays), the Han Dynasty Chinese philosopher Wang Chong (27–97 AD) dispels the Chinese myth of rain coming from the heavens, and states that rain is evaporated from water on the earth into the air and forms clouds, stating that clouds condense into rain and also form dew, and says when the clothes of people in high mountains are moistened, this is because of the air-suspended rain water.^[6] However, Wang Chong supports his theory by quoting a similar one of Gongyang Gao's,^[6] the latter's commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals, the Gongyang Zhuan, compiled in the 2nd century BC,^[6] showing that the Chinese conception of rain evaporating and rising to form clouds goes back much farther than Wang Chong. Wang Chong wrote:
  

As to this coming of rain from the mountains, some hold that the clouds carry the rain with them, dispersing as it is precipitated (and they are right). Clouds and rain are really the same thing. Water evaporating upwards becomes clouds, which condense into rain, or still further into dew.<sup>[6]
and so on and so forth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_meteorology


Easy enough to find Tommy, you are just too damn lazy</sup>

Tommy Monk wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
Yes research
i think it was Tommy that claimed he doesn`t do "research" ....

but that was obvious,
self inflicted stupidity is hard to cure,  first he would have to admit to him self
he had a problem  and he had developed a genuine willingness to learn

I never claimed I didn't do research... so you are totally wrong... and the rest of your post is complete bullshit!!!