Now we can make sperm, is this the end of men?

I’ve been here before, with the lesbians and the turkey basters. Every time there’s a fertility story like this some people get jumpy about men being wiped out



When I heard the news that stem cell scientists have managed to create an artificial version of sperm in the laboratory from embryonic cells, and used it to create healthy baby mice, I recalled the opposition to lesbians using sperm donors and a turkey baster to reproduce back in the 1980s. Men, and sometimes other women, would ask if this was the beginning of the end of men.

I took part in a TV debate about lesbian mothers at the time, and was asked by the host whether “the male race” would die out because all we would need would be sperm banks.

I was always quite puzzled at how these critics thought we would be able to prevent male babies from being born via this method, but I understood the wider point that men were feeling insecure about not even being needed, at least directly, in the pregnancy process.

Although the latest breakthrough appears to have been about helping men whose fertility is damaged by cancer treatment, mumps or other problems that prevent them from producing sperm, tall tales of man-hating feminists with an agenda to wipe out men usually pop up from somewhere.

Men can be sensitive creatures. Last year I made a joke in an interview in response to the question, “What can we do to end male violence?”, a campaign I have been involved with since 1979. I replied, jokingly, that if men could not learn to behave themselves, it might be a good idea to put them into an enclosed space, modelled a bit like a holiday camp, with a choice of quad bikes, white vans or bicycles. Female partners, mothers and friends could visit, and take them out like a library book, returning them at the end of the day. This would continue, I suggested, until men could learn to behave better towards women.

Within hours of the interview going online, men’s rights groups were accusing me of wanting to put men in “Nazi concentration camps”. And they say feminists are the ones with no sense of humour.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked by men, how do lesbians manage to have sex without a penis?

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked by men how on Earth lesbians manage to have sex without a penis. They seem to assume this body part is essential in the sack, and yet research as far back as 1976 suggests that it may not, even for many straight women, be all it is cracked up to be.

Maybe this goes some way towards explaining the paranoia from some men that we are always looking to get rid of them – especially when so many lesbians have learned to do their own DIY. Look, for example at the brilliant women-only plumbing service in Hebden Bridge, Yorkshire, named Stopcocks.

Then there is the widely accepted fact that far too many men do little more as fathers than donate sperm. Even those who stick around can be pretty useless. My mum used to say she had four children – her three offspring and my dad.
Women do, as we all know, get sick of men on occasion. We live under a patriarchal system in which men commit acts of sexual violence that we are subsequently blamed for. They start wars, leave their socks on the floor, and don’t do enough childcare. I have heard more straight women than lesbians suggest that a world without them would be an improvement, probably because they are the women spending their lives with the irritating creatures.

There have been attempts at women-only lands, and increasing numbers of women are opting to have babies without the direct involvement of men. Men had better buck up their ideas, or it won’t be enough that they can often open jars and get the BBQ going.

I don’t want a world without men, but I would like them to behave better. Do we need men? They can be a monumental pain in the backside, but even I have to admit, they can be very entertaining.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/26/sperm-men-lesbians-fertility



I wish they would quit meddling, why would we need artifical sperm?

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sassy wrote:I’ve been here before, with the lesbians and the turkey basters. Every time there’s a fertility story like this some people get jumpy about men being wiped out



When I heard the news that stem cell scientists have managed to create an artificial version of sperm in the laboratory from embryonic cells, and used it to create healthy baby mice, I recalled the opposition to lesbians using sperm donors and a turkey baster to reproduce back in the 1980s. Men, and sometimes other women, would ask if this was the beginning of the end of men.

I took part in a TV debate about lesbian mothers at the time, and was asked by the host whether “the male race” would die out because all we would need would be sperm banks.

I was always quite puzzled at how these critics thought we would be able to prevent male babies from being born via this method, but I understood the wider point that men were feeling insecure about not even being needed, at least directly, in the pregnancy process.

Although the latest breakthrough appears to have been about helping men whose fertility is damaged by cancer treatment, mumps or other problems that prevent them from producing sperm, tall tales of man-hating feminists with an agenda to wipe out men usually pop up from somewhere.

Men can be sensitive creatures. Last year I made a joke in an interview in response to the question, “What can we do to end male violence?”, a campaign I have been involved with since 1979. I replied, jokingly, that if men could not learn to behave themselves, it might be a good idea to put them into an enclosed space, modelled a bit like a holiday camp, with a choice of quad bikes, white vans or bicycles. Female partners, mothers and friends could visit, and take them out like a library book, returning them at the end of the day. This would continue, I suggested, until men could learn to behave better towards women.

Within hours of the interview going online, men’s rights groups were accusing me of wanting to put men in “Nazi concentration camps”. And they say feminists are the ones with no sense of humour.
 

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked by men, how do lesbians manage to have sex without a penis?

 
I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked by men how on Earth lesbians manage to have sex without a penis. They seem to assume this body part is essential in the sack, and yet research as far back as 1976 suggests that it may not, even for many straight women, be all it is cracked up to be.

Maybe this goes some way towards explaining the paranoia from some men that we are always looking to get rid of them – especially when so many lesbians have learned to do their own DIY. Look, for example at the brilliant women-only plumbing service in Hebden Bridge, Yorkshire, named Stopcocks.

Then there is the widely accepted fact that far too many men do little more as fathers than donate sperm. Even those who stick around can be pretty useless. My mum used to say she had four children – her three offspring and my dad.
Women do, as we all know, get sick of men on occasion. We live under a patriarchal system in which men commit acts of sexual violence that we are subsequently blamed for. They start wars, leave their socks on the floor, and don’t do enough childcare. I have heard more straight women than lesbians suggest that a world without them would be an improvement, probably because they are the women spending their lives with the irritating creatures.

There have been attempts at women-only lands, and increasing numbers of women are opting to have babies without the direct involvement of men. Men had better buck up their ideas, or it won’t be enough that they can often open jars and get the BBQ going.

I don’t want a world without men, but I would like them to behave better. Do we need men? They can be a monumental pain in the backside, but even I have to admit, they can be very entertaining.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/26/sperm-men-lesbians-fertility



I wish they would quit meddling, why would we need artifical sperm?

---

Could mean we did not breed any more trailer trash.

OP wrote:...but I understood the wider point that men were feeling insecure about not even being needed, at least directly, in the pregnancy process.

I think the author misses the real point, that it's not a gender issue, but an AI issue.  Who cares whether it's the ovum or the sperm? Both can be manipulated.  Already, we are either reproducing or manipulating (transplants) hearts, livers, knees, hips, ankles, uterus's, hands, lungs, limbs, and a whole array of smaller, if not lesser parts.

Anytime any aspect of the human being can be artificially replicated, it suggests that all of the human being can be artificially replicated...if not now, then sometime soon.  At such time as we can artificially replicate all of the human body, what part do you want to retain and identify as the 'essential' human being?

Have to disagree.  The sperm and the egg are the basic components of life.  They can't 'make' an egg.  They can artifically fertilise it with sperm, but they can't make it.  The fact they can artifically make the very basis of human life is completely different to anything else.   Transplants are a whole different issue.  We don't make the organ that is transplanted, it has already been working in another human being, we simply move it.

sassy wrote:They can't 'make' an egg. They can artifically fertilise it with sperm, but they can't make it.

Meh...a temporary pause in an otherwise inevitable march. Once they said that man would never fly. Look up in the sky. One day soon the ovum will easily be reproduced.

I think the author was playing with a 'sexy', tantalizing theme that would pull in the readers. The real issue is artificial beings, or replicants.

I think transplants are important because they are a significant step toward creating the ultimate artificial replacement. Knowing how and why an organ functions is a bridge to simply replicating and supplanting it.

Hate anything like this tbh
It just sounds awful and I wouldn't use an artificial sperm to make a baby, personally.

No Quill, the real issue is we have never before produced the first stepping stone to life, and at the moment there is no chance they can reproduce an egg.   And can we not vear off to transplants, they have nothing to do with this subject, the subject being, how will men feel if they are not even needed for their sperm?

sassy wrote:And can we not vear off to transplants, they have nothing to do with this subject...

No I think that they are an important part of the subject.  We are dealing with a process...the process of science and the progress of human knowledge/manipulation.  Saying that a significant part of that process is irrelevant is narrow and myopic.

sassy wrote:the real issue is we have never before produced the first stepping stone to life, and at the moment there is no chance they can reproduce an egg.

This metaphysical point has been repeated so many times in history, that it now seems to be a cleché.  The world is flat...if you sail west you will fall off.  Man will never fly!  They can't clone a sheep!  Take a man's heart and he dies!  We will never walk on the moon!

The "first stepping-stone to life" has been found, and by-passed.  It was the DNA double-helix discoveries of Watson and Crick that were the first stepping-stones of life.  The rest is actually going back and filling in the blanks in-between.

You really can't stick to a thread can you.  Sigh.

sassy wrote:You really can't stick to a thread can you.  Sigh.

It's not about me. The issue is about matters raised in the OP article.

I think the author raises, and misses an important point. Yes, we will soon be able to replicate and manufacture a whole human organism. No, it is not merely a point about gender politics. It raises all sorts of questions, going to the essential beingness of the human being.

No Quill, it's not about you, it's about how MEN will feel about this.

sassy wrote:No Quill, it's not about you, it's about how MEN will feel about this.

That's trite. Here we are considering one of the major issues of our future, and you lower the level to gender??? Let's start a thread about recipes.

Right Quill, you obviously don't want to discuss the subject.  I freely admit that most women, if told that wombs and eggs could be made without them, would probably feel a bit queasy.  But I guess you can't deal with the subject.

From your linked article >>>

To make the sperm, the team nudged mouse stem cells through a complex series of steps known as meiosis that must be performed with extreme care to ensure the sperm develop properly.

Despite years of work, scientists have never managed to pull off the same trick with human stem cells, but the latest study could provide fresh impetus to the effort, said Jiahao Sha, director of the Laboratory of Reproductive Medicine at Nanjing Medical University in China.

The creation of sperm and eggs - known as germ cells - for use in IVF raises particular safety issues, because any faults in their genetic material could harm not only the children born from the treatment, but all their future descendants.
“If it works, human germ cells could possibly be produced. However, in the current stage, ethics should be concerned, and any possible risks ruled out,” said Sha, who led the team

The scientists believe that the cautious, stepwise production of the sperm cells was crucial for the mice to be born healthy and fertile. The mice went on to mate and have fertile offspring of their own, Sha said.

WOW, this gave me goose-bumps; and I don't know if that uncontrolled reaction was from what I feared or the possibilities that this would hold for parents wanting to have their own DNA lineage babies?  Not every daddy enjoys having to chose a 'sperm donor' from some lab storage facility - nor would a injured returning/newly married military man; this might be what our future has as an 'OPTION' for young couples leaving NO STONE UNTURNED in order to have a baby of their own.  

Then there are the negatives: it seems like we are leaning/headed towards genetic purification for our baby choices...NOW - the option is here.

Is that a good/correct issue or we just need to follow wherever our new medical technology leads us?

Who would carry the shopping?

sassy wrote:Right Quill, you obviously don't want to discuss the subject.  I freely admit that most women, if told that wombs and eggs could be made without them, would probably feel a bit queasy.  But I guess you can't deal with the subject.

I'll pull this off if you don't think it follows the topic; but just today on my health/news updates there was this >>>

First uterus transplant performed in U.S.
CLEVELAND, Feb. 25 (UPI) --The first uterus transplant in the United States was performed this week, the Cleveland Clinic said. A nine-hour operation on Wednesday transplanted a deceased donor's uterus into the body …
United Press International · 35 minutes ago

Our medical professionals are going hyper-speed into areas that author 'Mary Shelley' only could dream about in her book - 'Frankenstein'!

can you imagine a land without men

just think of all the useless toasters and stuff lying around cos the women couldnt change the plug

just think of all the abandoned cars in the filling stations cos they couldnt find the filler cap...or put the oil in the screen wash

Original Quill wrote:

sassy wrote:You really can't stick to a thread can you.  Sigh.

It's not about me.  The issue is about matters raised in the OP article.

I think the author raises, and misses an important point.  Yes, we will soon be able to replicate and manufacture a whole human organism.  No, it is not merely a point about gender politics.  It raises all sorts of questions, going to the essential beingness of the human being.

Which is a fair point

Are we saying here now that its okay to manipulate the sex of the child, which is often sadly happening in some Asian countries where they prefer boys and abort when its female
Its one thing to say men are not needed anymore for the need to produce, but its another matter altogether on whether a the child's sex should be manipulated

Lord Foul wrote:can you imagine a land without men

just think of all the useless toasters and stuff lying around cos the women couldnt change the plug

just think of all the abandoned cars in the filling stations cos they couldnt find the filler cap...or put the oil in the screen wash

And more importantly....who would we nag?

Lord Foul wrote:can you imagine a land without men

just think of all the useless toasters and stuff lying around cos the women couldnt change the plug

just think of all the abandoned cars in the filling stations cos they couldnt find the filler cap...or put the oil in the screen wash

Well, I've been able to do all that since I was about 11, apart from putting oil in the screen wash, not a good idea lol.  And my first husband nearly killed us because I played the dutiful little wifey and let him put the plugs on (things didn't come with plugs then) and the silly prat put the earth on the positive!   He also tried to paint a room with a 2" brush, going carefully up and down until I showed him the right way, and I gave up waiting for the wallpaper and did it myself.  I also helped by Dad strip the car engine, my then husband wouldn't not have had a clue.

Lord Foul wrote:can you imagine a land without men
just think of all the useless toasters and stuff lying around cos the women couldnt change the plug
just think of all the abandoned cars in the filling stations cos they couldnt find the filler cap...or put the oil in the screen wash

Golly, I sure do hate popping your 'enjoyment bubble'...but



From General Contractors to plumber/electricians and all around 'Fix-It' people...the female gender has been striving forward since the day of WWII when you men left us to go off and fight...


And if you think we can't purchase our necessary equipment in any colors we want...well >>>

Syl wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:can you imagine a land without men

just think of all the useless toasters and stuff lying around cos the women couldnt change the plug

just think of all the abandoned cars in the filling stations cos they couldnt find the filler cap...or put the oil in the screen wash

And more importantly....who would we nag?

well thats true.....

sassy wrote:Right Quill, you obviously don't want to discuss the subject.  I freely admit that most women, if told that wombs and eggs could be made without them, would probably feel a bit queasy.  But I guess you can't deal with the subject.

Once again, it's not about me. And I don't go in for infinite regress arguments. Later...

But like I always say...if men obeyed first time no woman would ever have need to nag.

and what would you do when your puter breaks...

i mean

we all know the female "computer problem " answer

poke every button hopefully then resort to CTR-ALT-DEL

and if that fails throw it at the cat.....

Original Quill wrote:

sassy wrote:Right Quill, you obviously don't want to discuss the subject.  I freely admit that most women, if told that wombs and eggs could be made without them, would probably feel a bit queasy.  But I guess you can't deal with the subject.

Once again, it's not about me.  And I don't go in for infinite regress arguments.  Later...

You want it to be about you?  As I said, it's about MEN!  So don't trying pulling the 'I'm above all this' scam lol.

Syl wrote:But like I always say...if men obeyed first time no woman would ever have need to nag.

well that would work fine.....

if only the women could make up their mind WHAT ...exactly, ......they wanted us to obey and do

there is little point i immediately obeyin a womans demand....cos she's going to change it in the next 10 seconds anyway....


and ....

there would be mass out breaks of "mad cow disease" (AKA PMS) on a regular basis....

Lord Foul wrote:and what would you do when your puter breaks...

i mean

we all know the female "computer problem " answer

poke every button hopefully then resort to CTR-ALT-DEL

and if that fails throw it at the cat.....

Nah, not my OH, complete technophobe bless him.  Come to that, I even have to change the light bulbs.  Ah well, good job he has his uses lol

Seriously, one of the biggest drives we have is to reproduce ourselves.  If we aren't required to do that, that changes the whole dynamic of humanity.

Lord Foul wrote:and what would you do when your puter breaks...

i mean

we all know the female "computer problem " answer

poke every button hopefully then resort to CTR-ALT-DEL

and if that fails throw it at the cat.....

I am actually better at techie stuff than my OH...all self taught too.

Seriously though.....if someone said you don't need food to survive just take a daily pill would we?
Nope....because eating is fun and makes life interesting, same with men, even if we didn't actually need them we would still want them....vive la difference.

Hi folks. I'm going to but in on this topic to say just one thing:

The sexual act is one of the most enjoyable events in any relationship. But I think it is most important that the man spends some time warming up his partner, for women usually take longer than men. From my experience I'd say that as the man ejacualtes the woman feels it and this adds to her enjoyment and finale. Am I right Ladies?

Finally, creating sperm in a lab may lead to all kinds of atrocities due to some experiments just to see what can be generated. Weird creatures? Deformed babies?  I think it is all wrong and shouldn't be encouraged or financed.