Islamic State cannot be defeated with kindness. It's time to kill or be killed

The cold, hard facts are these: the Islamists hate us and their aim is to kill us.
They hate our way of life, our values, our culture, our civilisation. There is nothing we can do to appease them or persuade them to stop their killing spree – whether that murder takes places in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon or on the streets of Paris. There is nothing we can do – whether it is changing our foreign policy by withdrawing troops or warplanes from the Middle East or ending the Israel-Palestine conflict or anything else – that will make them change their minds. The terrorists and their willingness and ability to use violence against us will only be defeated by one thing: our own willingness and ability to use violence against them. History is littered with lessons that tell us that, contrary to the lament of the dove, war is actually good for quite a lot of things: mostly, defeating those who would wish us harm.

The evil of Islamism is not going to go away. It didn’t go away when it was ignored and appeased by the West for many years, despite a lengthy bombing campaign on western targets long before 9/11. And it isn’t going to go away now. Isil and its death cult stablemates will never be defeated until we get to grips with the concept that this has nothing to do with anything except the fact that we exist. It is that, and that alone, which offends them and which they seek to destroy. So, unless we are all happy to sign up to radical Islam right now, with every heretic and infidel executed on sight, every man forced to take up arms, every woman enslaved, every homosexual stoned to death and every nine-year-old girl at risk of rape, in a terrifying return to the Dark Ages, we have a choice to make. That choice is stark: kill or be killed. So which one is it going to be?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11998324/Islamists-hate-us-and-their-aim-is-to-kill-us.-We-have-a-choice-kill-or-be-killed.-Which-is-it-to-be.html



I highlighted this part as it is fundementally true. It does not matter even if we pulled out of the Middle East, as the aim of ISIS is global control. We have to stop kidding ourselves to think we can come to terms with people who glorify death over life and willingly give their lives in the idiotic belief of Martydom.  We never had such reservations in WW2 and even used terror ourselves to achieve victory against two enemies. One of which again placed more emphasis on the afterlife, than it did on human life. All this bullshit about foreign policy and countless other pathetic excuses that make the worst apologetic arguments for the rise of such groups, does nothing but further aid their propaganda war machine. Rules of engagement go out of the window when fighting an enemy that seeks and glorifies death through Martydom and no amount of bullshit can say this is not at the heart of Islamic belief, when it fundementally is.

There is no point talking about this any longer, we need to act in order to protect and save the lives of people who actually value life.

If someone comes out of the shadows wielding a knife at you then you must fight back wielding a loaded gun and be prepared to use it or you will lose.

Get them before they get you, simple.

Who do you think funds Isis?

How about using "tickling" as a form of torture?

Treat it a joke why don't you Zack!

Fuzzy Zack wrote:How about using "tickling" as a form of torture?

Or making someone eat a bowl of semolina

nicko wrote:Treat it a joke  why don't you Zack!

It's not a bad idea actually. It wouldn't actually be harming them, but if they're ticklish, they'll sing like a canary.

eddie wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:How about using "tickling" as a form of torture?

Or making someone eat a bowl of semolina

Or a whole jar of peanut butter.

How about playing Christmas music to them over and again? That seems to work on a lot of people.

Raggamuffin wrote:How about playing Christmas music to them over and again? That seems to work on a lot of people.

Or making you look at Xmas trees and Christman films AFER Xmas??
Enough to drive me bonkers!

Stormee wrote:If someone comes out of the shadows wielding a knife at you then you must fight back wielding a loaded gun and be prepared to use it or you will lose.

Get them before they get you, simple.

Perhaps open-carry is not such a bad idea after all. Should the UK 'second' the Second Amendment?

eddie wrote:Who do you think funds Isis?

Partly, halal meat products profits

Stormee wrote:

eddie wrote:Who do you think funds Isis?

Partly, halal meat products profits

probably not

why do you guys act like there is some huge money in halal, the price is in the UK is zero since it is not legally controlled you can just say it.
And in Australia where we do have official legal Halal certification you are talking cents on tonnes 

in perspective Hillsong make more selling the happy-clappy christian music CD's 

Stormee wrote:If someone comes out of the shadows wielding a knife at you then you must fight back wielding a loaded gun and be prepared to use it or you will lose.

Get them before they get you, simple.

do you keep the gun in your jackboots?


Or you could just be stronger faster and better then them to the point where you realize you have no need to fear them, just need to deal with them.

Also note, that you paid no attention to the innocent kids behind the guy with knife that you just shot

Stormee wrote:

eddie wrote:Who do you think funds Isis?

Partly, halal meat products profits

Lol!

Isis is mainly currently self funding, earning revenue from oil sales in the black market.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Stormee wrote:

Partly, halal meat products profits

Lol!

Isis is mainly currently self funding, earning revenue from oil sales in the black market.

https://www.rt.com/uk/312840-ISIS-funding-west-Rusi/

Didge wrote:We have to stop kidding ourselves to think we can come to terms with people who glorify death over life and willingly give their lives in the idiotic belief of Martydom.  We never had such reservations in WW2 and even used terror ourselves to achieve victory against two enemies. One of which again placed more emphasis on the afterlife, than it did on human life. All this bullshit about foreign policy and countless other pathetic excuses that make the worst apologetic arguments for the rise of such groups, does nothing but further aid their propaganda war machine. Rules of engagement go out of the window when fighting an enemy that seeks and glorifies death through Martydom and no amount of bullshit can say this is not at the heart of Islamic belief, when it fundementally is.

There is no point talking about this any longer, we need to act in order to protect and save the lives of people who actually value life.

Do you think we can kill them all?  There are so many of them, and they keep reproducing.

NO, we can't kill them all but remember, they are an enemy who have clandestinely infiltrated here, started their first steps to take over OUR island and convert it to Islam.
Our first mammoth task is to rid OUR island of them and deffo not let any more in.
Demolish their mosques, deny them prayers in OUR streets.
Deny them dressing in masks and clothing which can easily hide weapons, bombs.
Deny them hate speeches.
Bomb the sh*** out of them overseas.

They do not fit in here, do not wanna fit in here and I do not want them to fit in here.

Tell me, what is the point of having them on OUR island at all?????????

Stormee wrote:
NO, we can't kill them all but remember, they are an enemy who have clandestinely infiltrated here, started their first steps to take over OUR island and convert it to Islam.
Our first mammoth task is to rid OUR island of them and deffo not let any more in.
Demolish their mosques, deny them prayers in OUR streets.
Deny them dressing in masks and clothing which can easily hide weapons, bombs.
Deny them hate speeches.
Bomb the sh***  out of them overseas.

They do not fit in here, do not wanna fit in here and I do not want them to fit in here.

Tell me, what is the point of having them on OUR island at all?????????

OK, I see.  So a mass exile.  As of the 2011 census, the UK population has about 2,706,066 Muslims, approximately 5% of the total population.  Indeed, it is the 2nd largest religion in the UK.  

This will be quite an undertaking.  You will need concentration camps for purposes of collecting them, before exiling them.  Where do you plan to put these camps?

An interesting logistics problem will occur with respect to halting immigration of them. When they enter will they be identified by their religion, or their country of origin. For example, will they be classified as Muslim, or Belgium? Should we begin to classify all Brits by religion? That would be easier.

Also, it will be quite expensive.  How do you plan to pay for it?  Raising taxes will be the quickest way...austerity takes too long.

Perhaps you ought to consider genocide...or, is that still unconscionable at this point?

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:We have to stop kidding ourselves to think we can come to terms with people who glorify death over life and willingly give their lives in the idiotic belief of Martydom.  We never had such reservations in WW2 and even used terror ourselves to achieve victory against two enemies. One of which again placed more emphasis on the afterlife, than it did on human life. All this bullshit about foreign policy and countless other pathetic excuses that make the worst apologetic arguments for the rise of such groups, does nothing but further aid their propaganda war machine. Rules of engagement go out of the window when fighting an enemy that seeks and glorifies death through Martydom and no amount of bullshit can say this is not at the heart of Islamic belief, when it fundementally is.

There is no point talking about this any longer, we need to act in order to protect and save the lives of people who actually value life.

Do you think we can kill them all?  There are so many of them, and they keep reproducing.

In the Islamic state there is no more than 100,000-200,000.
Kill enogh until they become ineffective to fight and surrender, if they refuse to surrender, then they willingly are going to give their lives.
Just use any scenario where we took on the japanese as an example

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Do you think we can kill them all?  There are so many of them, and they keep reproducing.

In the Islamic state there is no more than 100,000-200,000.
Kill enogh until they become ineffective to fight and surrender, if they refuse to surrender, then they willingly are going to give their lives.
Just use any scenario where we took on the japanese as an example

But when will that be? Seems that killing them only incites them. Genocide?

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

In the Islamic state there is no more than 100,000-200,000.
Kill enogh until they become ineffective to fight and surrender, if they refuse to surrender, then they willingly are going to give their lives.
Just use any scenario where we took on the japanese as an example

But when will that be?  Seems that killing them only incites them.  Genocide?

You seem to fail to grasp that they glorify death over life and actually wish to die in battle.
Death to them is the ultimate ticket into heaven in their belief system.
This is why you see many willingly give their lives.
Those that want to surrender can, those that chose death fighting, then they choose themselves to die.
At the end of the day they have a choice to fight or surrender.

You do understand war, do you not?

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But when will that be?  Seems that killing them only incites them.  Genocide?

You seem to fail to grasp that they glorify death over life and actually wish to die in battle.
Death to them is the ultimate ticket into heaven in their belief system.
This is why you see many willingly give their lives.
Those that want to surrender can, those that chose death fighting, then they choose themselves to die.
At the end of the day they have a choice to fight or surrender.

You do understand war, do you not?

I really haven't been concentrating on them. My immediate question has to do with what the UK will look like in the aftermath.


After a war most of the carnage and wreckage captivated in photographs is of the devastation. So, I was trying to envision that. What will the UK look like?

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:
You seem to fail to grasp that they glorify death over life and actually wish to die in battle.
Death to them is the ultimate ticket into heaven in their belief system.
This is why you see many willingly give their lives.
Those that want to surrender can, those that chose death fighting, then they choose themselves to die.
At the end of the day they have a choice to fight or surrender.

You do understand war, do you not?

I really haven't been concentrating on them.  My immediate question has to do with what the UK will look like in the aftermath.

After a war most of the carnage and wreckage captivated in photographs is of the devastation.  So, I was trying to envision that.  What will the UK look like?

There is always going to be a problem with extremism, until Muslims themselves start to stop blaming others for problems that exist in the Islamic community. It is going to make than just a short term war to defeat the most radical that are in an area.
Like I have said the problem is many Muslims whether extremist or non-extremists fundementally believe and blame the west for many things, which is far easier to do than blame the Muslims themselves that commit acts of terror.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:
You seem to fail to grasp that they glorify death over life and actually wish to die in battle.
Death to them is the ultimate ticket into heaven in their belief system.
This is why you see many willingly give their lives.
Those that want to surrender can, those that chose death fighting, then they choose themselves to die.
At the end of the day they have a choice to fight or surrender.

You do understand war, do you not?

I really haven't been concentrating on them.  My immediate question has to do with what the UK will look like in the aftermath.

After a war most of the carnage and wreckage captivated in photographs is of the devastation.  So, I was trying to envision that.  What will the UK look like?

You just worry about the US and what that will look like.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I really haven't been concentrating on them.  My immediate question has to do with what the UK will look like in the aftermath.

After a war most of the carnage and wreckage captivated in photographs is of the devastation.  So, I was trying to envision that.  What will the UK look like?

There is always going to be a problem with extremism, until Muslims themselves start to stop blaming others for problems that exist in the Islamic community. It is going to make than just a short term war to defeat the most radical that are in an area.
Like I have said the problem is many Muslims whether extremist or non-extremists fundementally believe and blame the west for many things, which is far easier to do than blame the Muslims themselves that commit acts of terror.

Yes...you're still seeing this under the 'dialectic' gestalt metaphor.  You frame the issue in the motives of the participants, and so you are still in the realm of justification...which is fancy language, I suppose, for, you're still in the spirit of the fight.

As I say, I'm trying to look ahead and see what we are creating.  I got into this habit in the aftermath of 9/11, when everyone was in the war spirit and paid no attention to the 5,000 American lives lost, the 100,000's of thousands of Iraqi lives, the $17-trillion and the wasted ten years it cost.

Admittedly, it's not cheerleading.  So it might be a downer.  But, ya know--it might be the Scot in me--well, $17-trillion is still a lot of money even if you don't care about the lives.

No I am in the realms of reality where countless women and children are being enslved and raped and where people are suffering the worst abuses. Its called doing something to stop a group that is barbaric and cares nothing for the value of life itself. You seem to think that we should never take risks in saving people which if we took your stance, there would now be no Jews alive today as Hitler would have been allowed to finish his plan with no nation stopping him.
Nothing is without risk, but it is worth taking that risk in order to save lives, of which those with are fighting have no value of life, but death itself
That is what you fail to grasp
This is not Iraq, this is Syria and you need to move on from two very different scenarios
The Iraqi's lost over half a million under Saddam, maybe you need to do the maths and work out how many more would have died under him, because it will dwarf what he did before, being as an Arab spring would have come to Iraq, if he had been still in power

"Reality."  "Common sense."  "Practical."  These are words and phrases that inspire confidence.  But they are only words, after all.  Advertising people know full well, the power of imagery they create. They use these words as short-cuts for a reality, which is full of ambivalence.

But in the end, a dispassionate look at what you are doing is called framing.  That's all I'm trying to say: you are living in the script of adversarial confrontation.  That is why you do not understand me.

I am trying to look at what's on the other side.  It doesn't have to do with Iraq, Afghanistan or Korea, for that matter.  The compare and contract is between two different views or scripts.

You are digressing from the original points at hand at how to deal with the problem in Syria.
Maybe you should look on the other side, the one where many people are suffering under the oppresion of ISIS, because until you understand the theology of ISIS and those suffering, then you have little idea as to what it is that people are facing and dealing with.

Didge wrote:You are digressing from the original points at hand at how to deal with the problem in Syria.
Maybe you should look on the other side, the one where many people are suffering under the oppresion of ISIS, because until you understand the theology of ISIS and those suffering, then you have little idea as to what it is that people are facing and dealing with.

"Should."  "Would."  "Could."  Normative words about what the writer thinks is best.  But then, there's the next writer.

It is what it is.  If every thread were to stick to the OP's single thought, there would only be posts...not threads.  If I want to talk about another view--add a thought--it's a free country...well, it is on this side of the pond.  Don't think the UK is an open society.

Anyway, I think it's valuable to reframe questions or issues.  View it as education.  Like going from 2-dimensions to 3-dimensions...it gives depth to the subject.  Depth is greater understanding.  They say Einstein got his theory of relativity by envisioning the path of a point of light in an elevator, moving from left to right as it ascended.

I know you despise any reference to Iraq, but history is valuable.  How we went from enthusiastic cheerleading to dismal regret is a real question in our lives.  I hear it's of such concern over there that there is a commission looking into how the Iraq war happened...led by Sir John Chilcot.  Well, Sheldon Wolin always said: 'Put thought before action.'  Simple words, but an impactful message: think before you act.  Wouldn't it be better than expensive and lengthy commissions, if we asked in chat rooms like this...then what???  Just speculation and leisurely questioning, not near as expensive as a commission.

When you start to invent things I have never claimed i lose all interest in the debate.

Stay on topic to the points at hand Quill

I am very happy to talk about Iraq and if you see I made comments about Iraq on another thread already today.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t12395-lbc-s-nick-ferrari-tells-Muslim-who-opposes-british-foreign-policy-to-leave-the-uk#243396

So I do not need to view something as you do as your view as seen fails to helped the oppressed and those in clear need

I hope when I return you actually address my original points


Have a good day

Didge wrote:When you start to invent things I have never claimed i lose all interest in the debate.

Stay on topic to the points at hand Quill

I am very happy to talk about Iraq and if you see I made comments about Iraq on another thread already today.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t12395-lbc-s-nick-ferrari-tells-Muslim-who-opposes-british-foreign-policy-to-leave-the-uk#243396

So I do not need to view something as you do as your view as seen fails to helped the oppressed and those in clear need

I hope when I return you actually address my original points

Have a good day

Yes...I think there's not much more to say about this subject. Another, calmer view. Another perspective...and it loses all its luster.

You too, have a good one.

If someone stands before you, loaded gun in hand with intent to do you harm and you also have a loaded gun in hand, what will YOU do?????????? shout trick or treat???????????

Stormee are you a hill shepherd