Video: Israelis surround and shoot Arab woman

First topic message reminder :

In the age of phone cameras, we have become increasingly used to photos and videos of Palestinians in the West Bank being shot by soldiers in unjustifiable circumstances.

Think of 18-year-old Hadeel Hashlamon, who was killed late last month at a checkpoint in Hebron. A series of photos of her suggest, in the words of Amnesty International, that she was “executed” by the soldiers there. She was shot multiple times and left to bleed to death.

The army claimed she had a knife, which they photographed on the ground nearby. But whether she was carrying the knife or it was planted there, still an issue that has not been resolved, the more important point is this: she posed no threat, let alone a lethal one, to anyone when she was killed.

Now we have a disturbing video of a similar shooting but this time not in the occupied territories. This occurs inside Israel and the victim is an Israeli citizen – a member of the country’s Palestinian minority, which comprises a fifth of Israel’s population.

Israa Abed, a 30-year-old mother of three from Nazareth, was shot today at the central bus station in Afula, close to Nazareth. She was surrounded by many soldiers, police and what appear to be armed Israeli civilians. The soldiers there are probably passengers on the many buses that pass through Afula.

The Israeli media initially reported that she was shot while trying to stab a security guard. The video (below) shows that to be definitively not the case. She is shot after long moments of standing apparently terrified in the bus station, in what looks like a state of all-consuming panic, as more and more people point their guns at her.

From the quality of this video it is near-impossible to know whether she is holding a knife. (My update below presents a new video strongly suggesting that she is holding a pair of sunglasses, not a knife.)  But it is possible to see that, like Hashlamon, she poses no threat to any of the soldiers when she is shot. That point is underlined by the fact that several soldiers and policemen move closer to her, not away from her, in the final moments before she is shot. She does little more than sway throughout the video, appearing to turn when a policeman runs directly towards her as several gun shots ring out on the sound track.

Fortunately, she appears to have survived the shooting and is reported to be in a stable condition in hospital.

But this video is troubling for several reasons.

First, and most obviously, this woman was shot when she posed no immediate threat. The person or people who opened fire did so with no possible justification, apart from their own fears. One cannot help wondering whether the ease with which Israeli Jews shoot Palestinians, whether fellow citizens of Israel or victims of the occupation, reflects long-dominant discourses in the Israeli education system, media and politics that dehumanise “Arabs”.

Second, the shooting seems to occur not because the armed people around her fear they are in danger, but because the group push themselves into a collective frenzy about the alleged knife. In this kind of atmosphere, someone is going to pull the trigger sooner or later.

This is very similar to another recent video, in which a group of religious (and unarmed) Jews chase after Fadi Alloun in a large open area in Jerusalem calling for him to be shot. When security forces turn up, the video shows police opening fire, apparently on the orders of the crowd, killing him. Again, Alloun does not appear to be posing a threat to anyone at the time he is shot.

Third, Israeli politicians, including the mayor of Jerusalem, Nir Barkat, have called on Israeli Jewish civilians to carry their weapons at all times and be ready to use them. This video shows where this policy is likely to lead: summary justice carried out by the most unhinged link in the security chain.

Fourth, it is a deeply worrying new trend inside Israel that Jewish civilians are starting to mimick the settlers in the occupied territories in believing they should be carrying out revenge attacks themselves. Today, a Jewish man in Dimona stabbed four Palestinians, two of them Israeli citizens. This video offers a vivid illustration of the mood of victimhood that is sweeping Israel, one that makes Israelis fast on the trigger and ready to play the role of avenging angel.

It is bad enough that Palestinians in Israel have to face security forces that treat them like an enemy. But things will get much, much worse when even the highly prejudicial rule of law in Israel is replaced by the lynch mob.

UPDATE:

From the quality of the available videos, it is difficult to tell what Israa has in her hand that the armed Israelis believe is a knife. But the four-second video clip below strongly suggests that it was a pair of sunglasses. They are clearly visible lying next to her prone body, moments after she has been shot. They are kicked away by one of the bystanders.

The original video shows her slowly raise her arm and then gently move her hand forward in a kind of waving motion. (More paranoid viewers have suggested to me that she is doing some sort of slow-motion stabbing gesture into the air.) It looks very much as though she is imploring the soldiers to look more carefully at the object she is holding. However one looks at it, and whatever it is she’s holding, she is clearly terrified.

- See more at: http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-10-09/video-israelis-shoot-motionless-arab-woman/#sthash.FSxiGwtj.dpuf

There are two vidioes on there, the second can be seen more clearly on

https://www.facebook.com/Kzzder/videos/817539798344744/

If you start it and stop it immediately, you can see what he kicks away A PAIR OF SUNGLASSES


Murder by multiple IDF of a tiny terrified Palestinian woman.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well no, because this forum isn't a court of law, so I don't have to prove anything. I haven't seen any report of her attacking a bus guard, and I can't see what is in her hand. You'll just have to make do with that I'm afraid.

If it's a knife, she's not trying to stab anyone with it. She holding the object up as if she's trying to show what it is.

Yes you do when you are making the claims here.
So if you cannot make out, then youhave no case to claim it is not a weapon.
You cannot refute that clearlly the Police were issuing a warning. This lends further wait to the fact she was holding a weapon.
Your last point is even more opinion.
We only see part of the incident, so you need to prove she did not attack the Bus Guard.
Like I say all you offer is poor opinion which lacks any reality to the situation going on the video. So again like I say your opinion counts for little if not backed by evidence

All I'm claiming is what I see for myself. You're the one making claims, which you have not backed up with any evidence whatsoever. You need to prove that she attacked a bus guard if you're going to get arsy about it.

I don't know what the police were saying - as I said, they speak a different language to me.

This is a discussion forum, and I'm not going to agree with you just because you want me to. I haven't agreed with Sassy either. That's the thing with videos - you can only go by what you see on them.

No dear Rags, you came on making claims which conflict with the accounts given, the pictures the actions of the Israel Police. Well with guns pointing and not understanding a language, what do you think it means?
Put you hands up maybe or any sign or surrender?Then you end with an absurd deflection.
Its about you having to back up your opinion, as like I say opinions that lack evidence also then lack credability. This has nothing to do with sassy, but you making claims, which now when I further challenge your views you cannot back.

So its clear you cannot so no problem.

Cuchulain wrote:No dear Rags, you came on making claims which conflict with the accounts given, the pictures the actions of the Israel Police. Well with guns pointing and not understanding a language, what do you think it means?
Put you hands up maybe or any sign or surrender?Then you end with an absurd deflection.
Its about you having to back up your opinion, as like I say opinions that lack evidence also then lack credability. This has nothing to do with sassy, but you making claims, which now when I further challenge your views you cannot back.

So its clear you cannot so no problem.

What claims did I make which conflict with the accounts given?

You clearly have a problem understanding what I'm saying. That's your fault, not mine. As you're clearly looking for an argument, go and find someone else to have one with.

Just read back on your last post lol
For example:

If it's a knife, she's not trying to stab anyone with it. She holding the object up as if she's trying to show what it is.

Those are claims
Stop giving immature excuse and throughout you made claims.
Anyway as seen you have no evidence

Laters

Cuchulain wrote:Just read back on your last post lol
For example:

If it's a knife, she's not trying to stab anyone with it. She holding the object up as if she's trying to show what it is.

Those are claims
Stop giving immature excuse and throughout you made claims.
Anyway as seen you have no evidence

Laters

Well that's a fact. She's clearly not trying to stab anyone with the object she's holding, whether it's a knife or not. She is holding the object up - she's not threatening anyone with it.

get some palestinian vermin

god bless the israelis

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Well its obvious to me, she attempted to stab one of the officers as we see them offer warnings of which she did not heed. Its clear she had a knife and the picture proves it also.

I cannot say that's a knife in her right hand, and she's not attempting to stab anyone in that video. I don't know what they're saying to her either as I don't speak the same language.

I see that you and Sassy are on opposite sides in this, but I'm going on what I've seen for myself, and I'm keeping an open mind. I'm not going to claim that they just targeted her for no reason, but I'm also not going to say that she clearly attempted to stab one of the officers.

Well is called deduction Rags

For one why  is her hand up holding something that clearly resembles a knife or scissors?

They are pointing their guns at her giving warnings to clearly drop what is in her hands, which is clearly not sunglasses of which the video certainly shows.

They gave many and she did nothing to drop the weapon and was shot by the Police.

She had just tried to stab stab a bus station guard.

So if you cannot rule out it was not a weapon, then of which the evidence certainly points to, then you have the problem here to prove otherwise.

Looks like sunglasses she was holding and certainly not a knife or a weapon.

I zoomed in and enlarged that image and as you can see it fits being sunglasses

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well is called deduction Rags

For one why  is her hand up holding something that clearly resembles a knife or scissors?

They are pointing their guns at her giving warnings to clearly drop what is in her hands, which is clearly not sunglasses of which the video certainly shows.

They gave many and she did nothing to drop the weapon and was shot by the Police.

She had just tried to stab stab a bus station guard.

So if you cannot rule out it was not a weapon, then of which the evidence certainly points to, then you have the problem here to prove otherwise.

Looks like sunglasses she was holding and certainly not a knife or a weapon.

I zoomed in and enlarged that image and as you can see it fits being sunglasses

I agree that the object on the ground is sunglasses, although that doesn't mean that's what she holding in her right hand. It could have been though.

There's another object on the floor in one of the videos. I still think she had a phone in her left hand.

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well is called deduction Rags

For one why  is her hand up holding something that clearly resembles a knife or scissors?

They are pointing their guns at her giving warnings to clearly drop what is in her hands, which is clearly not sunglasses of which the video certainly shows.

They gave many and she did nothing to drop the weapon and was shot by the Police.

She had just tried to stab stab a bus station guard.

So if you cannot rule out it was not a weapon, then of which the evidence certainly points to, then you have the problem here to prove otherwise.

Looks like sunglasses she was holding and certainly not a knife or a weapon.

I zoomed in and enlarged that image and as you can see it fits being sunglasses

So you zoom in on a picture which may have nothing to do with anything which is not clear and could belong to anyone and failed to zoom in on the many pictures of the woman and what she is holding in her hand?

I'm pretty sure that the object which is kicked away in the video which Sassy posted is sunglasses. I've been looking for that clip on You Tube so I can slow it down, but I can't find it.

There's some footage here from CCTV. It doesn't really show anything very new tbh. When she falls down, something on the floor moves to the right of her head. Any ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAHwBCqcx0

I have now seen three objects on the floor in different videos. Whether those three objects are the same thing is difficult to say. They are different positions relating to where she's lying, but then if she was moving around, that could account for it.

There's one very quick point in the video where the object she's holding does appear to have a blade or a pointed bit to it. If she is holding a knife, she's holding it with the blade pointing down and towards her body - like you'd hold a dagger.

Here is some article on the position of the Police facing such situations and the legal side of shooting, which covers this incident:


Another video that has garnered both national and international attention shows an incident in the central bus station of the northern city of Afula on Friday, in which IDF soldiers and Israel Police shot an Israeli Arab woman who appears to be holding a knife.
Earlier, according to police, the woman had attempted to stab a bus station security guard. This, however, does not appear in the cellphone footage. What the video does show is soldiers and police officers telling the woman in Hebrew and English to not move and put down the knife. After a few tense seconds, a police officer approaches the scene and the shooting begins.


In that case, the woman, a 30-year-old student from Nazareth, was shot in the lower body and only moderately injured, not killed. But still, since she was surrounded by police officers, Border Police officers and soldiers, and appeared to pose no threat, critics of Israel argued that the shooting was unjustified.
“Israeli commandos don’t know how to take a knife from a girl without shooting her point blank?” one Palestinian Twitter user asked in response to the video.

That's no excuse. Israeli commandos don't know how to take a knife from a girl without shooting her point blank? @mrbmartinbaker @Belalmd12
— Iyad El-Baghdadi (@iyad_elbaghdadi) October 9, 2015

They do, to answer the question, but approaching someone holding a knife carries with it inherent danger. Police officers are not required to put themselves at unnecessary risk any more than regular citizens are, Cohen said. “Are police not also people?” he asked rhetorically. “That’s the difference from a war. Police are considered equal to civilians, they are not worth less than others. And so, defending their lives is just as important as defending the lives of others.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-knife-wielders-are-subdued-questions-on-shoot-first-ask-later/

The CCTV footage shows the woman just pacing around really. At one point she goes over to a group of people, who then appear to move away from her, but it's too vague to see why. It may well be because the guys with the guns suddenly appear.

If there's an investigation, I hope they have good equipment to enhance both of these videos in order to establish if she was indeed holding a knife, or something else.

I also would like to know if she was indeed speaking on a mobile phone at one point. She has her left hand up to her ear and it does look like she's using a phone. I've seen one report which says she did have a phone on her.

The other question is regarding the sunglasses. If she wasn't holding them, where were they when she was standing up?

lets keep in mind that the reason for this uprising is because the savage Muslims dont want to let jews pray at their holy site

so yeah - fuck em

why not use a taser?

using guns in this situation, regardless of circumstances surrounding it is pure cowardice....

moreover didge ...if this was a coloured person and happened in america you would be climbing all over it.....

in ANY situation the above is "disproportionate use of force".....

victorismyhero wrote:moreover didge ...if this was a coloured person and happened in america you would be climbing all over it.....

in ANY situation the above is "disproportionate use of force".....

Actually I am quite stunned you have tried to make a comparrison to where there is little comparrison to where I have spoken out against Police force in the US.

1) In America I have spoken out where the Black victim is unarmed. In many of the cases the US Police have claimed they are reaching for a weapon. Where here there is a weapon in plain site and where it was witnessed she had tried to stab someone.

2) Where I have spoken out he Black Victim has not tried to commit murder, or has committed murder or commit a terrorist act where the Police have ended up shooting them dead.

3) The black victim is killed when I speak on such articles, where here they wounded her.

4) Your view fails to comprehend martydom, where a black victim will be in the main not willing to forfiet their life, where as in the extremist mindset they are and where we know they are also willing to blow themselves up then murdering as many as possible. There has been a mulitude of suicide attacks, from which again they have no idea if they are. Shows you fail to see the situation faced is miles apart in what action the Israel Police have to act within a small time frame, compared to the articles I post where Black victims are killed on the pretence they fear for their lives, where no gun was visible.

5) To say pure cowardice is not only feeble but is you never having to have to face such a situation or on a scale that the Israel Police have to and even more so where there has been a mulititude of attacks over the last week. I also bet any money if you were faced with such a situation in this country where there was a multitude of attacks and with gun to hand witnessed an attempt on someone English, I doubt you would not even hesitate and would shoot to kill.

6) Like I say the situations are miles removed, one where the attacker if an islamic extremist activelly looks for martydom to where Blacks are killed soley on the bases of a poor sterotype of blacks.

7) So no its not disproportionate, where even Israeli Police has not even killed all these terrorists but have taken some wounded alive.

If you cannot see how the situations are miles removed, where one group of people are racially discrminated with hate in the US over their skin colour and where in Israel they are racially hated for their existance to live in a land, then you clearly know very little of the history and what the Israelis have to face. One thing though I have never claimed sympathy for or argued off any killer or someone set out with the intent on murderer in the act or process of, shot by the Police in the US in a confrontation. Hence why there is little to no comparrison, but maybe you can show me where I have?

Just a reminder of this incident.

A police investigation into the October 9 incident revealed that Asra’a Zidan Abed, 30, wanted to be shot and killed by police.

She will not face charges for attempted murder. Instead, she faces minor charges of carrying a dangerous weapon.

Police and Shin Bet investigators say they believe Abed did not plan to stab anyone when she wielded the knife at the Afula station, but was pretending to be a Palestinian terrorist in the hope that she would be shot by security forces.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/suicidal-afula-bus-station-attacker-released-to-house-arrest/