Palestinians Are Fighting for Their Lives; Israel Is Fighting for the Occupation

That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time.

Yes, this is a war, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with his mandate from the people, has ordered its intensification. He does not listen to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ messages of conciliation and acceptance in calmer times, why should he listen to them now?

Netanyahu is intensifying the war mainly in East Jerusalem, with orgies of collective punishment. He thus further reveals Israel’s success in physically disconnecting Jerusalem from most of the Palestinian population, accenting the absence of Palestinian leadership in East Jerusalem and the weakness of the government in Ramallah — which is trying to stop the drift in the rest of the West Bank.

The war did not start last Thursday, it does not start with the Jewish victims and does not end when no Jews are murdered. The Palestinians are fighting for their life, in the full sense of the word. We Israeli Jews are fighting for our privilege as a nation of masters, in the full ugliness of the term.

That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time, and that all the time we are doing everything in our power to make their lives unbearable. Most of the time it is a unilateral war, waged by us, to get them to say “yes” to the master, thank you very much for keeping us alive in our reservations. When something in the war’s one-sidedness is disturbed, and Jews are murdered, then we pay attention.

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon. Young Palestinians, vengeful and desperate, are willing to lose their lives and cause their families great pain because the enemy they face proves every day that its malice has no limits.

Even the language is malicious. Jews are murdered, Palestinians are killed and die. Is that so? The problem doesn’t begin with our not being permitted to write that a soldier or police officer murdered Palestinians, at close range, when his life was not in danger, or by remote control or from a plane or a drone. But it is part of the problem. Our comprehension is captive to a retroactively censored language that distorts reality. In our language, Jews are murdered because they are Jews and Palestinians find their death and their distress, because presumably that’s what they’re looking for.

Our worldview is shaped by the consistent betrayal by Israeli media outlets of their duty to report events, or their lack of the technical and the emotional ability to contain all of the details of the world war that we are conducting in order to preserve our superiority in the land between the river and the sea.

Not even this newspaper has the economic resources to employ 10 reporters and fill 20 pages with reports on all the attacks in times of escalation and all the attacks of the occupation in times of calm, from shooting through building a road that destroys a village to legalizing a settlement outpost and a million more assaults. Every day. The random examples we do manage to report are but a drop in the ocean, and they have no impact on the comprehension of the situation for a large majority of Israelis.

The goal of this unilateral war is to force the Palestinians to give up all their national demands in their homeland. Netanyahu wants escalation because experience so far has proved that the periods of calm after the bleeding return us not to the starting line, but rather to a new low in the Palestinian political system, and adds privileges to the Jews in Greater Israel.

Privileges are the chief factor that distorts our understanding of our reality, blinding us. Because of them, we fail to comprehend that even with weak, “present-absent” leadership, the Palestinian people — scattered in its Indian reservations — will not give up and will continue to find the strength necessary to resist our malicious mastership.

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.679129

Haaretz - an ISRAELI paper.

Apologist to terrorism and poor to say the least left wing drivel

Remember this is all over a building.

Its daft by both sides why religion is nothing more than the cause of so many conflicts.

Ask yourself without these religious beliefs, would they fighting over such a buiding?

No, so the article is nothing short of daft

Notice how it eludes to "Jews" and not Israeli.

Remeber this is Palestinians kicking over are being incited to do so by Abbas, and this paper is notereous for spinnng crap.

Its also to blame for further inciting trouble.

Like I say the Palestinians could have peace tomorrow if both Fatah and hamas recognise Israel's right to excist and cease for any calls to violence. They do not want to do that hence why the conflict continues and has continued since 1948 because they do not want to accept israel's existance.

The article is making assumptions and not facts, hence why people will rightly take such inciteful views as poor. It does not call for calm, but further increases and intends to incite violence

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon. Young Palestinians, vengeful and desperate, are willing to lose their lives and cause their families great pain because the enemy they face proves every day that its malice has no limits.

Is this referring to ordinary Jews? If so, then there's no excuse for Palestinians to murder them. That's like saying that English people in England deserved to die at the hands of the IRA.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon. Young Palestinians, vengeful and desperate, are willing to lose their lives and cause their families great pain because the enemy they face proves every day that its malice has no limits.

Is this referring to ordinary Jews? If so, then there's no excuse for Palestinians to murder them. That's like saying that English people in England deserved to die at the hands of the IRA.

Indeed, glad you picked up this after I said, it states Jews, not Israeli's or Israeli Jews, hence why it is an apologist for terrorism.
To even say they are occupiers implies the whole of Israel ishould not exist, claiming they are are all occupiers and is trying to then justify murdering any Israeli Jew, based on a belief and claim that Israel does not exist and its all Palestinian.
Like I say left wing apologist drivel

I think that paragraph completely negates the whole thing tbh. If young Palestinians are making themselves into murderers, they have only themselves to blame for the misery they inflict on their own families. If we're talking about "malice", there's no greater malice than going out to murder someone.

Noble Israel are locked in a genocidal war against a homocidal enemy, they have and continue to show the greatest amount of humanity and restraint when dealing with the so called "palestinians" who are in every way an army that is illegally occupying israeli land and subjecting innocent israelis to daily murders, rapes and atrocities, they steal israeli children and turn them into suicide bobmbers to be used on their own families

these plaestinains are truly monster and would be wiped out by now if they were facing lets say jordan or syrian or chinese or american forces who would show not even half the humanity and care that the IDF show on a daily basis at great cost to their own forces who operate under the strictest most suicidal rules of engagement.

FYI sassy, using an "israeli newspaper" or having a picture with jews into means fuck all, there were and always will be traitor jews, just ask the nazis, they used traitor jews all the time before frying them when their use ran out, it would seem that some jews havent learned the lesson of not siding with a homocidal enemyu hell bent on exterminating all jews from the earth

sassy wrote:That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time.

Yes, this is a war, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with his mandate from the people, has ordered its intensification. He does not listen to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ messages of conciliation and acceptance in calmer times, why should he listen to them now?

Netanyahu is intensifying the war mainly in East Jerusalem, with orgies of collective punishment. He thus further reveals Israel’s success in physically disconnecting Jerusalem from most of the Palestinian population, accenting the absence of Palestinian leadership in East Jerusalem and the weakness of the government in Ramallah — which is trying to stop the drift in the rest of the West Bank.

The war did not start last Thursday, it does not start with the Jewish victims and does not end when no Jews are murdered. The Palestinians are fighting for their life, in the full sense of the word. We Israeli Jews are fighting for our privilege as a nation of masters, in the full ugliness of the term.

That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time, and that all the time we are doing everything in our power to make their lives unbearable. Most of the time it is a unilateral war, waged by us, to get them to say “yes” to the master, thank you very much for keeping us alive in our reservations. When something in the war’s one-sidedness is disturbed, and Jews are murdered, then we pay attention.

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon. Young Palestinians, vengeful and desperate, are willing to lose their lives and cause their families great pain because the enemy they face proves every day that its malice has no limits.

Even the language is malicious. Jews are murdered, Palestinians are killed and die. Is that so? The problem doesn’t begin with our not being permitted to write that a soldier or police officer murdered Palestinians, at close range, when his life was not in danger, or by remote control or from a plane or a drone. But it is part of the problem. Our comprehension is captive to a retroactively censored language that distorts reality. In our language, Jews are murdered because they are Jews and Palestinians find their death and their distress, because presumably that’s what they’re looking for.

Our worldview is shaped by the consistent betrayal by Israeli media outlets of their duty to report events, or their lack of the technical and the emotional ability to contain all of the details of the world war that we are conducting in order to preserve our superiority in the land between the river and the sea.

Not even this newspaper has the economic resources to employ 10 reporters and fill 20 pages with reports on all the attacks in times of escalation and all the attacks of the occupation in times of calm, from shooting through building a road that destroys a village to legalizing a settlement outpost and a million more assaults. Every day. The random examples we do manage to report are but a drop in the ocean, and they have no impact on the comprehension of the situation for a large majority of Israelis.

The goal of this unilateral war is to force the Palestinians to give up all their national demands in their homeland. Netanyahu wants escalation because experience so far has proved that the periods of calm after the bleeding return us not to the starting line, but rather to a new low in the Palestinian political system, and adds privileges to the Jews in Greater Israel.

Privileges are the chief factor that distorts our understanding of our reality, blinding us. Because of them, we fail to comprehend that even with weak, “present-absent” leadership, the Palestinian people — scattered in its Indian reservations — will not give up and will continue to find the strength necessary to resist our malicious mastership.

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.679129

Haaretz - an ISRAELI paper.

An excellent article by Amira Hass who reports on the issues by experiencing living in the regions affected by the Israeli policies towards the Palestinian people. Amira is the daughter of parents who survived the Holocaust in the Belsen death camp and has reported on how it is in the occupied territories not by what the Israeli propaganda pumps out. Like you say – a report filed by a Jewish woman in an Israeli publication telling the truth.

She has been jailed by the Israeli's and received death threats from Palestinian and Israeli extremists but she will not give up reporting the truth as she see's and experiences it.

I wish there were more like her.

Irn Bru wrote:

sassy wrote:That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time.

Yes, this is a war, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with his mandate from the people, has ordered its intensification. He does not listen to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ messages of conciliation and acceptance in calmer times, why should he listen to them now?

Netanyahu is intensifying the war mainly in East Jerusalem, with orgies of collective punishment. He thus further reveals Israel’s success in physically disconnecting Jerusalem from most of the Palestinian population, accenting the absence of Palestinian leadership in East Jerusalem and the weakness of the government in Ramallah — which is trying to stop the drift in the rest of the West Bank.

The war did not start last Thursday, it does not start with the Jewish victims and does not end when no Jews are murdered. The Palestinians are fighting for their life, in the full sense of the word. We Israeli Jews are fighting for our privilege as a nation of masters, in the full ugliness of the term.

That we notice there’s a war on only when Jews are murdered does not cancel out the fact that Palestinians are being killed all the time, and that all the time we are doing everything in our power to make their lives unbearable. Most of the time it is a unilateral war, waged by us, to get them to say “yes” to the master, thank you very much for keeping us alive in our reservations. When something in the war’s one-sidedness is disturbed, and Jews are murdered, then we pay attention.

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon. Young Palestinians, vengeful and desperate, are willing to lose their lives and cause their families great pain because the enemy they face proves every day that its malice has no limits.

Even the language is malicious. Jews are murdered, Palestinians are killed and die. Is that so? The problem doesn’t begin with our not being permitted to write that a soldier or police officer murdered Palestinians, at close range, when his life was not in danger, or by remote control or from a plane or a drone. But it is part of the problem. Our comprehension is captive to a retroactively censored language that distorts reality. In our language, Jews are murdered because they are Jews and Palestinians find their death and their distress, because presumably that’s what they’re looking for.

Our worldview is shaped by the consistent betrayal by Israeli media outlets of their duty to report events, or their lack of the technical and the emotional ability to contain all of the details of the world war that we are conducting in order to preserve our superiority in the land between the river and the sea.

Not even this newspaper has the economic resources to employ 10 reporters and fill 20 pages with reports on all the attacks in times of escalation and all the attacks of the occupation in times of calm, from shooting through building a road that destroys a village to legalizing a settlement outpost and a million more assaults. Every day. The random examples we do manage to report are but a drop in the ocean, and they have no impact on the comprehension of the situation for a large majority of Israelis.

The goal of this unilateral war is to force the Palestinians to give up all their national demands in their homeland. Netanyahu wants escalation because experience so far has proved that the periods of calm after the bleeding return us not to the starting line, but rather to a new low in the Palestinian political system, and adds privileges to the Jews in Greater Israel.

Privileges are the chief factor that distorts our understanding of our reality, blinding us. Because of them, we fail to comprehend that even with weak, “present-absent” leadership, the Palestinian people — scattered in its Indian reservations — will not give up and will continue to find the strength necessary to resist our malicious mastership.

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.679129

Haaretz - an ISRAELI paper.

An excellent article by Amira Hass who reports on the issues by experiencing living in the regions affected by the Israeli policies towards the Palestinian people. Amira is the daughter of parents who survived the Holocaust in the Belsen death camp and has reported on how it is in the occupied territories  not  by what the Israeli propaganda pumps out.  Like you say – a report filed by a Jewish woman in an Israeli publication telling the truth.

She has been jailed by the Israeli's and received death threats from Palestinian and Israeli extremists but she will not give up reporting the truth as she see's and experiences it.

I wish there were more like her.

I'm not at all surprised. Justifying murder in that manner probably amounts to incitement.

Rags, where did she justify murder?

Irn Bru wrote:Rags, where did she justify murder?

This bit.

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon.

That's how the IRA and their supporters justified what they did.

She isn't justifying it she's trying to explain why they do it.
If anyone is justifying murder it's Netanyahu and his bunch of cronies who are in power and trampling all over the West Bank and bombing Gaza to almost total ruin. Palestinians just happen to be in the way of him realising his dream of having it all for Israel.

Irn Bru wrote:She isn't justifying it she's trying to explain why they do it.
If anyone is justifying murder it's Netanyahu and his bunch of cronies who are in power and trampling all over the West Bank and bombing Gaza to almost total ruin. Palestinians just happen to be in the way of him realising his dream of having it all for Israel.

To me, that's incitement. She's basically telling them that they can justify murdering someone because they're "victims".

Raggamuffin wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:She isn't justifying it she's trying to explain why they do it.
If anyone is justifying murder it's Netanyahu and his bunch of cronies who are in power and trampling all over the West Bank and bombing Gaza to almost total ruin. Palestinians just happen to be in the way of him realising his dream of having it all for Israel.

To me, that's incitement. She's basically telling them that they can justify murdering someone because they're "victims".

To you that is but explaining why someone does something doesn't mean they are justifying people going out and doing it does it? She isn't calling on people to go out and murder Jews is she? Is Netanyahu guilty as well then in inciting Israeli's to go out and murder Palestinian's?

Would calling on the French resistance to fight and kill German occupiers in France be considered incitement to murder?

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

To me, that's incitement. She's basically telling them that they can justify murdering someone because they're "victims".

To you that is but explaining why someone does something doesn't mean they are justifying people going out and doing it does it? She isn't calling on people to go out and murder Jews is she? Is Netanyahu guilty as well then in inciting Israeli's to go out and murder Palestinian's?

Would calling on the French resistance to fight and kill German occupiers in France be considered incitement to murder?

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

She is justifying Palestinians murdering Jews based off a belief they are all occupying, look at her words:

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon.

Collective as in all Jews are culpable. Not Israelis or Israeli jews either, just Jews.
That is just appalling as if all are to blame, giving off a view that then Israel, the whole of Israel is an occupied land. She negates that what drives again violence is two fundemental things from islam.

One Martydom, a belief that they will give up their lives willingly through a belief it is the easiest and best way into heaven in their belief, where they are honoured above all others. As seen from the other article when israel was not even a nation they incited violence based around fear of the Mosque being taken from them even back then and many Jews were murdered. This is what has created the violence again that we see now, all around this Mosque. So to say she is explaining is not only wrong but she fails to understand the driving factors here.

The second is the view of Dar al-Islam, that the land belongs to Muslims, which is as daft as Zionism. These two major factors is why you see Palestinians give up their lives fueld by others promoting violence based around the belief the land of Israel should be Muslim.

To further prove this point look at the 1964 PLO charter when both Gaza and the West Bank were under Eygptian and Jordanian control. It did not call for these lands to be made Palestine and why? Becuase they were already then Dar al-Islam. This is what people miss in the whole debate on this conflict and it was only when the West bank and Gaza fell to Israel that they were called to free and part of Palestine. This is why you see Fatah and Hamas continue this conflict becuase they will not recognise Israel, a they believe the lands are  Dar al-Islam.

So she could not be further wrong and fueling a belief like this which is just as stupid as Zionism, helps incite young Palestinian Muslims to sucidal violent attacks.

Cuchulain wrote:She is justifying Palestinians murdering Jews based off a belief they are all occupying, look at her words:

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon.

Collective as in all Jews are culpable. Not Israelis or Israeli jews either, just Jews.
That is just appalling as if all are to blame, giving off a view that then Israel, the whole of Israel is an occupied land. She negates that what drives again violence is two fundemental things from islam.

One Martydom, a belief that they will give up their lives willingly through a belief it is the easiest and best way into heaven in their belief, where they are honoured above all others. As seen from the other article when israel was not even a nation they incited violence based around fear of the Mosque being taken from them even back then and many Jews were murdered. This is what has created the violence again that we see now, all around this Mosque. So to say she is explaining is not only wrong but she fails to understand the driving factors here.

The second is the view of Dar al-Islam, that the land belongs to Muslims, which is as daft as Zionism. These two major factors is why you see Palestinians give up their lives fueld by others promoting violence based around the belief the land of Israel should be Muslim.

To further prove this point look at the 1964 PLO charter when both Gaza and the West Bank were under Eygptian and Jordanian control. It did not call for these lands to be made Palestine and why? Becuase they were already then Dar al-Islam. This is what people miss in the whole debate on this conflict and it was only when the West bank and Gaza fell to Israel that they were called to free and part of Palestine. This is why you see Fatah and Hamas continue this conflict becuase they will not recognise Israel, a they believe the lands are  Dar al-Islam.

So she could not be further wrong and fueling a belief like this which is just as stupid as Zionism, helps incite young Palestinian Muslims to sucidal violent attacks.

Didge, I just knew that when there is something going on to discredit a human rights activist who lives in Israel and has experienced what is going on that you would be right at the heart of it.

Has she said that young Palestinian's should go out and murder Jews? No, she hasn't.

She has made no reference to all Jews has she? No.

The rest of your post is nothing more than a defllection but go and read the Likud Party charter and let me know what you think of it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

To you that is but explaining why someone does something doesn't mean they are justifying people going out and doing it does it? She isn't calling on people to go out and murder Jews is she? Is Netanyahu guilty as well then in inciting Israeli's to go out and murder Palestinian's?

Would calling on the French resistance to fight and kill German occupiers in France be considered incitement to murder?

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So you'd be a traitor to your country and not fight for it's existance if another country invaded and occupied the UK?  You'd be a Quisling?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

To me, that's incitement. She's basically telling them that they can justify murdering someone because they're "victims".

To you that is but explaining why someone does something doesn't mean they are justifying people going out and doing it does it? She isn't calling on people to go out and murder Jews is she? Is Netanyahu guilty as well then in inciting Israeli's to go out and murder Palestinian's?

Would calling on the French resistance to fight and kill German occupiers in France be considered incitement to murder?

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So fighting back against someone or even a government that wants to kill them or has said they should be wiped off the face of the earth is incitement is it?

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:She is justifying Palestinians murdering Jews based off a belief they are all occupying, look at her words:

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon.

Collective as in all Jews are culpable. Not Israelis or Israeli jews either, just Jews.
That is just appalling as if all are to blame, giving off a view that then Israel, the whole of Israel is an occupied land. She negates that what drives again violence is two fundemental things from islam.

One Martydom, a belief that they will give up their lives willingly through a belief it is the easiest and best way into heaven in their belief, where they are honoured above all others. As seen from the other article when israel was not even a nation they incited violence based around fear of the Mosque being taken from them even back then and many Jews were murdered. This is what has created the violence again that we see now, all around this Mosque. So to say she is explaining is not only wrong but she fails to understand the driving factors here.

The second is the view of Dar al-Islam, that the land belongs to Muslims, which is as daft as Zionism. These two major factors is why you see Palestinians give up their lives fueld by others promoting violence based around the belief the land of Israel should be Muslim.

To further prove this point look at the 1964 PLO charter when both Gaza and the West Bank were under Eygptian and Jordanian control. It did not call for these lands to be made Palestine and why? Becuase they were already then Dar al-Islam. This is what people miss in the whole debate on this conflict and it was only when the West bank and Gaza fell to Israel that they were called to free and part of Palestine. This is why you see Fatah and Hamas continue this conflict becuase they will not recognise Israel, a they believe the lands are  Dar al-Islam.

So she could not be further wrong and fueling a belief like this which is just as stupid as Zionism, helps incite young Palestinian Muslims to sucidal violent attacks.

Didge, I just knew that when there is something going on to discredit a human rights activist who lives in Israel and has experienced what is going on that you would be right at the heart of it.
Just because someone claims to be a human rights activist does not mean they are intelligent or understand something
What you are doing is  a logical fallaicy, ad verecundiam and appeal to authority

Has she said that young Palestinian's should go out and murder Jews? No, she hasn't.
Never siad she did, she has though justified them doing so based off an absurd view she blames the Jews. Not the Israeli's or israeli's Jews, but just the Jews. That is not only naive, stupid, but it is justifying murder based off the daft belief that your chuckle brother comes out with armed ressisstance under occupation. Or did you not think of of that? She is making all Jews culpable and thus justifying their murders through an incorrect view also that All Israel is an occupied state of Palestinians


She has made no reference to all Jews has she? No.

Young Palestinians do not go out to murder Jews because they are Jews, but because we are their occupiers, their torturers, their jailers, the thieves of their land and water, their exilers, the demolishers of their homes, the blockers of their horizon.




The rest of your post is nothing more than a defllection but go and read the Likud Party charter and let me know what you think of it.

So in other words you fail to understand the factors that drive the violence mainly because you have not got a clue
Look we already know you are an apologist to political Hamas who praise the murders of Israeli's, that is evident so its no surprise that you are also trying to defend an apologist to Paletsinian violence.
Just because someone claims to be a Human rights activitist does not mean they are anything of the sort.

So again as you cannot answer and claiming something is a deflection without reasoning your view as to why is invalid, so try again.

She negates that what drives again violence is two fundemental things from islam.

One Martydom, a belief that they will give up their lives willingly through a belief it is the easiest and best way into heaven in their belief, where they are honoured above all others. As seen from the other article when israel was not even a nation they incited violence based around fear of the Mosque being taken from them even back then and many Jews were murdered. This is what has created the violence again that we see now, all around this Mosque. So to say she is explaining is not only wrong but she fails to understand the driving factors here.

The second is the view of Dar al-Islam, that the land belongs to Muslims, which is as daft as Zionism. These two major factors is why you see Palestinians give up their lives fueld by others promoting violence based around the belief the land of Israel should be Muslim.

To further prove this point look at the 1964 PLO charter when both Gaza and the West Bank were under Eygptian and Jordanian control. It did not call for these lands to be made Palestine and why? Becuase they were already then Dar al-Islam. This is what people miss in the whole debate on this conflict and it was only when the West bank and Gaza fell to Israel that they were called to free and part of Palestine. This is why you see Fatah and Hamas continue this conflict becuase they will not recognise Israel, a they believe the lands are  Dar al-Islam.

So she could not be further wrong and fueling a belief like this which is just as stupid as Zionism, helps incite young Palestinian Muslims to sucidal violent attacks.

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So fighting back against someone or even a government that wants to kill them or has said they should be wiped off the face of the earth is incitement is it?

Yes it is incitment on both stand points.
Fighting back?
So are you now claiming armed ressistance under occupation, and thus justifying Israelis being murdered?
As what did these civilians have to do with the israeli Government?
So it really is starting to come out.
First you support Political Hamas that has a charter to wipe out the Jews and now you justify israelis being murdered, under the pretence they are fighting back against the Israeli Goverment.

Blimey

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So you'd be a traitor to your country and not fight for it's existance if another country invaded and occupied the UK?  You'd be a Quisling?

So again Stassi proves why she incites and apporves of violence and murder by extremists against israeli civillians.
Most of these attacks have not happened in the West bank either. To claim Rags would be a traitor is nothing short of idiotic, as that would be like the Prodestant Northen Irish claiming the Catholic Southern Irish were Quisling. You have just also by the daft above belief also justified the terrorist attacks of the IRA. As the IRA believed Northern Ireland is occupied by the British. I would like one day to see a united Ireland but I respect the self determination of those Northern Irish that wish to remain British. Only a two state solution will work with Israel and Palestine. This is why some of the left are clueless.

But lets have some facts, Israel once occupied both the West Bank, the Sinai and Gaza, they have since withdrawn from Gaza, the Sinai and from areas of the West Bank.

Is all of the West Bank occupied?

No

Is Gaza occupied?

No

Do Hamas and Fatah believe Israel is dar al islam?

Yes

Israel has troops around settlements and roads, so the West bank and on what is disputed territory.
I do not agree with the settlements but to state occupation, would have to mean the West bank and Gaza are recognised Statehoods.
If they are not, then how can there even be a claim to occupation? It could onlb e ever partial occupation. So to claim armed ressistance under occupation is a falsehood, as the troops are manily based around settlements and the Fatah and Hamas Goverments have their own laws, Police armed forces and automony.

Gaza has no case to claim occupation as seen by this legal case:

The Republic of Azerbaijan declares that it is unable to guarantee the application of the provisions of the Convention in the territories occupied by the Republic of Armenia until these territories are liberated from that occupation.

Article 42 of the Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land, The Hague, 18 October 1907 (hereafter “the 1907 Hague Regulations”) defines belligerent occupation as follows:

“Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.”

Accordingly, occupation within the meaning of the 1907 Hague Regulations exists when a state exercises actual authority over the territory, or part of the territory, of an enemy state(1) . The requirement of actual authority is widely considered to be synonymous to that of effective control.

Military occupation is considered to exist in a territory, or part of a territory, if the following elements can be demonstrated: the presence of foreign troops, which are in a position to exercise effective control without the consent of the sovereign. According to widespread expert opinion physical presence of foreign troops is a sine qua non requirement of occupation(2) , i.e. occupation is not conceivable without “boots on the ground” therefore forces exercising naval or air control through a naval or air blockade do not suffice(3) .

[1].  See, for example, E. Benvenisti, The International Law of Occupation (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2012) at p. 43; Y. Arai-Takahashi, The law of occupation: continuity and change of international humanitarian law, and its interaction with international human rights law (Leiden: Martinus Nijhoff Publishers, 2009), at p. 5-8; Y. Dinstein, The International Law of Belligerent Occupation (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2009) at 42-45, §§ 96-102; and A. Roberts, ‘Transformative Military Occupation; Applying the Laws of War and Human Rights’, 100 American Journal of International Law 580 (2006) 585-586.

[2].  Most experts consulted by the ICRC in the context of the project on occupation and other forms of administration of foreign territory agreed that ‘boots on the ground’ are needed for the establishment of occupation – see T. Ferraro, Occupation and other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory (Geneva, ICRC, 2012), at 10, 17 and 33; see also E. Benvenisti, cited avove, at p. 43ff; V. Koutroulis, Le debut et la fin de l’application du droit de l’occupation (Paris: Editions Pedone, 2010) at pp. 35-41.

[3].  T. Ferraro, cited above, at pp. 17 and 137; Y. Dinstein, cited above, at p. 44, § 100.

143. At this point the Court considers it useful to reiterate that Azerbaijan has deposited a declaration with its instrument of ratification expressing that it was “unable to guarantee the application of the provisions of the Convention in the territories occupied by the Republic of Armenia” (see paragraph 93 above). In its decision on the admissibility of the present case, the Court has held that the declaration was not capable of restricting the territorial application of the Convention to certain parts of the internationally recognised territory of Azerbaijan (Sargsyan (dec.), cited above, §§ 63-65) nor did it fulfil the requirements of a valid reservation (ibid., §§ 66-70).

144. The Court notes that under international law (in particular Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations) a territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of a hostile army, “actual authority” being widely considered as translating to effective control and requiring such elements as presence of foreign troops, which are in a position to exercise effective control without the consent of the sovereign (see paragraph 94 above). On the basis of all the material before it and having regard to the above establishment of facts, the Court finds that Gulistan is not occupied by or under the effective control of foreign forces as this would require a presence of foreign troops in Gulistan.

http://www.ejiltalk.org/european-court-decides-that-israel-is-not-occupying-gaza/

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So fighting back against someone or even a government that wants to kill them or has said they should be wiped off the face of the earth is incitement is it?

Well who are we talking about here? Jewish or Israeli settlers? They don't want to kill Palestinians do they?

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sorry, but I can only repeat that I see it as incitement. She's virtually saying that they kill Jews (or Israelis) in self defence. That's a form of incitment.

So you'd be a traitor to your country and not fight for it's existance if another country invaded and occupied the UK?  You'd be a Quisling?

Do you consider that the IRA were justified then? After all, they killed British people who they considered to be invaders. Do you think they would have been traitors if they had not killed those people?

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:

So you'd be a traitor to your country and not fight for it's existance if another country invaded and occupied the UK?  You'd be a Quisling?

Do you consider that the IRA were justified then? After all, they killed British people who they considered to be invaders. Do you think they would have been traitors if they had not killed those people?

You answer first, I asked first.  If we were invaded and and occupied, would you fight back or would you be a Quisling?

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you consider that the IRA were justified then? After all, they killed British people who they considered to be invaders. Do you think they would have been traitors if they had not killed those people?

You answer first, I asked first.  If we were invaded and and occupied, would you fight back or would you be a Quisling?

You have to put it on context. Where is the "invasion" you're referring to?

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:

You answer first, I asked first.  If we were invaded and and occupied, would you fight back or would you be a Quisling?

You have to put it on context. Where is the "invasion" you're referring to?

Did you not notice the word IF?

And you have the context, UK invaded and occupied by another country, doesn't matter which one.  Would you be a Quisling or would you fight back?

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You have to put it on context. Where is the "invasion" you're referring to?

Did you not notice the word IF?

And you have the context, UK invaded and occupied by another country, doesn't matter which one.  Would you be a Quisling or would you fight back?

Do you mean invaded as in the way some say Germany has been invaded by Muslim refugees?

Listen Sassy, I've always been a bit on the fence re Israel and Palestine. I understand both sides, and can sympathise with both sides to a degree. What is wrong in that article is that the writer is glorifying murder by saying it's done as a kind of self defence or in revenge for wrongs. That is what I'm objecting to.

Why should Palestinians mind a few hundred Jews living in the area where they live? I'm sure you would object if someone in the UK said that Asians shouldn't be allowed to live here.

Palestinians are a very patriot lot.

They do not want to migrate and leave their lands behind to Zionists. Even though moist of them have been kicked out of their homes and have their work stolen. They will fight till the end.

SEXY MAMA wrote:Palestinians are a very patriot lot.

They do not want to migrate and leave their lands behind to Zionists. Even though moist of them have been kicked out of their homes and have their work stolen. They will fight till the end.

the end will be soon inshallah

and then we can have peace in israel inshallah

Raggamuffin wrote:Why should Palestinians mind a few hundred Jews living in the area where they live? I'm sure you would object if someone in the UK said that Asians shouldn't be allowed to live here.

It's not a few hundred though is it?

And what if you were kicked out of your house? And they lived in it! Would you mind that?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why should Palestinians mind a few hundred Jews living in the area where they live? I'm sure you would object if someone in the UK said that Asians shouldn't be allowed to live here.

It's not a few hundred though is it?

And what if you were kicked out of your house? And they lived in it! Would you mind that?

ask the german nurse who is being kicked out her house so that immigrants can move in

smelly-bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Palestinians are a very patriot lot.

They do not want to migrate and leave their lands behind to Zionists. Even though moist of them have been kicked out of their homes and have their work stolen. They will fight till the end.

the end will be soon inshallah

and then we can have peace in israel inshallah

When did you take the shadah Smelly?

smelly-bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

It's not a few hundred though is it?

And what if you were kicked out of your house? And they lived in it! Would you mind that?

ask the german nurse who is being kicked out her house so that immigrants can move in

One woman?

Tut tut poor comparison

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why should Palestinians mind a few hundred Jews living in the area where they live? I'm sure you would object if someone in the UK said that Asians shouldn't be allowed to live here.

It's not a few hundred though is it?

And what if you were kicked out of your house? And they lived in it! Would you mind that?

It's a few hundred in Hebron, according to what I read, and yet they need to protect those Jews.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

ask the german nurse who is being kicked out her house so that immigrants can move in

One woman?

Tut tut poor comparison

Two so far, plus the daughter of one of them.

Tip of the iceberg ...

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

the end will be soon inshallah

and then we can have peace in israel inshallah

When did you take the shadah Smelly?

early this morning, followed by the silky smoothness that only special toilet paper made out of recycle qur'an paper can give

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

ask the german nurse who is being kicked out her house so that immigrants can move in

One woman?

Tut tut poor comparison

one women, a few million so called pals

whats the difference, if youre willing to accept one women being booted out to make way for immigrnats then im willing to watch israel move along every single so called palestinian to make room for israelis

perspective is a bitch eh??

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

One woman?

Tut tut poor comparison

Two so far, plus the daughter of one of them.

Tip of the iceberg ...

Don't think so
Let's wait and see

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Two so far, plus the daughter of one of them.

Tip of the iceberg ...

Don't think so
Let's wait and see

So your objection to settlements in Palestine is because of the numbers of Jews there, not because of the settlements per se?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Two so far, plus the daughter of one of them.

Tip of the iceberg ...

Don't think so
Let's wait and see

wait and see, because you have such integrity and honesty right??

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Don't think so
Let's wait and see

So your objection to settlements in Palestine is because of the numbers of Jews there, not because of the settlements per se?

How did you figure that out?

What an assumption to make! Jesus Christ!

smelly-bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Don't think so
Let's wait and see

wait and see, because you have such integrity and honesty right??

What the fuck are you on about?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So your objection to settlements in Palestine is because of the numbers of Jews there, not because of the settlements per se?

How did you figure that out?

What an assumption to make! Jesus Christ!

Because you said this:

It's not a few hundred though is it?

There's no need to bring Jesus into this, and use his name as an expletive. Have some respect.

Raggamuffin wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

How did you figure that out?

What an assumption to make! Jesus Christ!

Because you said this:

It's not a few hundred though is it?

There's no need to bring Jesus into this, and use his name as an expletive. Have some respect.

I do have respect for Jesus hence why I never abuse your religion and it wasn't written in a derogatory term so stop being so sensitive. Don't make a fucking issue where there isn't one.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So your objection to settlements in Palestine is because of the numbers of Jews there, not because of the settlements per se?

How did you figure that out?

What an assumption to make! Jesus Christ!

its quite easy to make that conclusion

you highlight that fact that so called "palestinians" are being kicked out of thier homes to make way for israelis and then proceed to shit yourself in hysterical outrage

when it is highlighted that a german nurse has suffered the same fate but for a different group, your response is "MEH its only one who cares??"

so it it was only one palestinian losing their house, your reponse would presumably be "MEH its only one who cares", but becasue its not only one, youre up in arms

thus we must conclude that the issue you have is with the amount of settlements, not the settlements themselves

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Because you said this:



There's no need to bring Jesus into this, and use his name as an expletive. Have some respect.

I do have respect for Jesus hence why I never  abuse your religion and it wasn't written in a derogatory term so stop being so sensitive. Don't make a fucking issue where there isn't one.

There was no need for use to use him name at all. I haven't used your Prophet's name as an expletive.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Because you said this:



There's no need to bring Jesus into this, and use his name as an expletive. Have some respect.

I do have respect for Jesus hence why I never  abuse your religion and it wasn't written in a derogatory term so stop being so sensitive. Don't make a fucking issue where there isn't one.

swearing??

must be infitada day at friday mosque.

what the hell is it about fridays that pisses you lot off so much??

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

wait and see, because you have such integrity and honesty right??

What the fuck are you on about?

what i am on about is your hypocrisy

it wouldnt matter if one nurse turned into ten thousand, you wouldnt care anymore then, than you do now about it.

unless of course it was ten thousand Muslim nurses, then you would care, but non Muslims mean nothing to you