Germany in state of siege!!!

by Guest Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:06 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

[*]Thousands of economic migrants are posing as refugees to reach Europe
[*]David Cameron said this week that Europe must said failed asylum claimants back to their countries
[*]Demands for Germany's 'open doors and windows' policy to be scrapped
[*]Women said rape and child abuse were rife in Giessen's refugee camp

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:09 pm

victorismyhero wrote:then of course is the cost

10 BILLION euro for germany THIS YEAR

what of next year
and the one after....

yes we are aware of the "economic benefits" argument....BUT thats a (very) long term thing

expect germay's unemployment figures to double (at least) and the wages of its people to be destroyed as cheaper "immigrant labour takes over" (but do not expct prices of food/housing to fall, the greedy 1%ers will want to keep the extra....)

I expect they'll want the rest of the EU to bail them out and reimburse them.

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:13 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Gibberish

Its social housing meant for people with needs.
She no longer meets those requirements as she has a good wage and her children have grown up and left home. So she is denying a large place to those who are in need. She forgets she obtained the place based on how she once also met those needs
Its owned by the Municipality, which means its social housing

Doh

of course didge misses the point entirely.....yet again

what this instance shows is that in reality NO person in "council accomodation " in germany is now safe in their home

any one of them can now be kicked out onto the street in favour of an immigrant.....

you have no point
What did you fail to understand what this flat is for?
Its for people who meet a criteria, which she no longer meets.
So she is selfishly denying this to others.
So you are saying when people no longer need a property they were given when they did meet that requirement should stay in them thus denying many people in need.
Sorry that is utter babble and you know it

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:16 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:then of course is the cost

10 BILLION euro for germany THIS YEAR

what of next year
and the one after....

yes we are aware of the "economic benefits" argument....BUT thats a (very) long term thing

expect germay's unemployment figures to double (at least) and the wages of its people to be destroyed as cheaper "immigrant labour takes over" (but do not expct prices of food/housing to fall, the greedy 1%ers will want to keep the extra....)

What has it got to do with you Victor how the Germans spend their money?

it hasnt...BUT I bet when they are forced into recession there may be questions asked...
Again are you trying to quantify a cost to helping save human lives?
So are you saying that humans have a price tag?

yes, it may come as a surprise to you but indeed they do, across a whole range of issues...even in this country....
Again you go off other problems to deny helping people.

so...ignore the problems(multiple) and just hope everything will be hunky dorey?.....of course i realise that YOU are happy to reduce the entire population of europe to penury (equal misery for all)

Do you know what is the worst part about all your posts, is that not once do you offer sensible alternatives to help these people.

rubbish, you are very "selective" in your reading.....(you have to be to prop up your nonsense)

I have already suggested that a far more practical solution would be to get prefabbed housing built for these refugees ....

You instead argue at every turn to deny them. That speaks volumes to me this has everything to do with your pessimistic views you have of Muslims

And......is there anything to be "optimistic" about??

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:16 pm

victorismyhero wrote:then of course is the cost

10 BILLION euro for germany THIS YEAR

what of next year
and the one after....

yes we are aware of the "economic benefits" argument....BUT thats a (very) long term thing

expect germay's unemployment figures to double (at least) and the wages of its people to be destroyed as cheaper "immigrant labour takes over" (but do not expct prices of food/housing to fall, the greedy 1%ers will want to keep the extra....)

preciesly

this is not a one off

every authority

every commentator

they are all saying that same thing - "get ready for more" since all of europes strategy is focused on absordtion instead of prevention, it is the greatest irnoy that the one time our leaders are honest about what they will deliever is the one time we wish they were lying

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:21 pm

in twenty years time europe will be the same backward shite hole as most of these countries these folks are fleeing from....

by Original Quill Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:23 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Nor, not being there. But you will admit if you are not a percipient witness you are at a disadvantage. You must depend upon the accounts of others

This the case with Raggs and I as we discuss the refugee situation in Europe.

well since that is the case you will admit that interent access aside, rags and ME are better percipient witnesses than yourself being as you are not only geographically disadvantaged but culturally as well

Smells, you haven't been there. Don't even try.

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:23 pm

victorismyhero wrote:it hasnt...BUT I bet when they are forced into recession there may be questions asked..

yes, it may come as a surprise to you but indeed they do, across a whole range of issues...even in this country...
so...ignore the problems(multiple) and just hope everything will be hunky dorey?.....of course i realise that YOU are happy to reduce the entire population of europe to penury (equal misery for all)
rubbish, you are very "selective" in your reading.....(you have to be to prop up your nonsense)

I have already suggested that a far more practical solution would be to get prefabbed housing built for these refugees ....
You instead argue at every turn to deny them. That speaks volumes to me this has everything to do with your pessimistic views you have of Muslims

And......is there anything to be "optimistic" about??

Blimey what a load of inane drivel.
Not once have I denied other problems, but the pressing problem at present in this instance is many displaced people. Due top the numbers and no you have offered no sensible solution what so ever
Al you are doing is offering the most pathetic arguments to deny helping people by then claiming off other people who need help when all should be helped together
Sorry its get boring now but you have no ethical or moral argument to back you here and you know it.
The problem you have is by saying you want to only help a small amount of people fails to grasp that the point should be to help all.
Then I get tired of your inane claims of what I want done to a country when I rightly showed this Nurse was being utterly selfish.
These properties have a purpose to help those in need.
She once filled those requirements and now does not. Forget the refugee situation she should not then even stay in that property, the point you missed. She had access to this when she needed this but has no right to remain after she no longer has need of such a large place that can be used by countless others in need. You have crapped onto me countless times over how it was a disaster to sell off many council properties. So you are changing your arguments like the wind.
On every count you have the weaker argument here and it is born from bigotry Victor and there is no way you can deny this

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:24 pm

victorismyhero wrote:in twenty years time europe will be the same backward shite hole as most of these countries these folks are fleeing from....

20 years??

lol!

you have a good sense of humour

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:24 pm

victorismyhero wrote:in twenty years time europe will be the same backward shite hole as most of these countries these folks are fleeing from....

Jackanory

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:41 pm

really didge...

it is clear to me that you HAVNT seen the ghettos of birmingham and bradford etc....

they make the WORST of our "sink estates" look positvely good, and the reality isnt that these are just "poor estates" but square miles of ....well.....go and take a look.........

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

well since that is the case you will admit that interent access aside, rags and ME are better percipient witnesses than yourself being as you are not only geographically disadvantaged but culturally as well

Smells, you haven't been there. Don't even try.

come now quill, lets be realistic

between you and me, which of us would have the greater understanding of the subtle cultural nuances between a man living in washington vs one living in florida or alabama??

you see quill,the very fact that you are completely ignorant of european law and more importantly its individual cultures and society structures - yes,plural - coupled with the facts that not only are we living in immediate proximity to the crisis, but have been the unfortunate recipients of said immigrants for the last 2 decade, means that we are not only the percipient witnesses but active participant witnesses as well

you are ,by your lack of participation in the multicultural murderfest that we ,and now europe (happily, if spitefully so) are being subjected to, makes you an outside OBSERVER and COMMENTATOR, a percipient witness my friend,you are not.

so when you offer your long winded high brow pearls of wisdom, rest assured that the rest of us are rolling our eyes and thinking "what the fuck is this dickhead talking about".

by eddie Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:46 pm

I've said before, that unless you are witnessing something, firsthand, it's very hard to grab a hold of it properly.

I wouldn't dare to presume to know more about how it actually feels to live in California than quill.

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:49 pm

victorismyhero wrote:really didge...

it is clear to me that you HAVNT seen the ghettos of birmingham and bradford etc....

they make the WORST of our "sink estates" look positvely good, and the reality isnt that these are just "poor estates" but square miles of ....well.....go and take a look.........

That post so was so poor, bigoted, prejudiced, wrong, appalling, it does not even warrant a respectful reply

by Original Quill Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:15 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Smells, you haven't been there. Don't even try.

come now quill, lets be realistic

between you and me, which of us would have the greater understanding of the subtle cultural nuances between a man living in washington vs one living in florida or alabama??

you see quill,the very fact that you are completely ignorant of european law and more importantly its individual cultures and society structures - yes,plural - coupled with the facts that not only are we living in immediate proximity to the crisis, but have been the unfortunate recipients of said immigrants for the last 2 decade, means that we are not only the percipient witnesses but active participant witnesses as well

you are ,by your lack of participation in the multicultural murderfest that we ,and now europe (happily, if spitefully so) are being subjected to, makes you an outside OBSERVER and COMMENTATOR, a percipient witness my friend,you are not.

so when you offer your long winded high brow pearls of wisdom, rest assured that the rest of us are rolling our eyes and thinking "what the fuck is this dickhead talking about".

This is the kind of random self-talk and impulsive thought processes that I'm sure the Germans went through in and around 1933. Incidental connections, spontaneous invention of facts, working backwards from conclusions you want to see, to causes that would make you right. Yep, Christ was a German; Satan was a Jew. C'mon Churchill, you haven't lived with them like we have. Look at 'em over there in Poland...bet if we put fences around 'em they'd work better!

This is why I say, Thank god for good research and disciplined thought.

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:34 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:it hasnt...BUT I bet when they are forced into recession there may be questions asked..

yes, it may come as a surprise to you but indeed they do, across a whole range of issues...even in this country...
so...ignore the problems(multiple) and just hope everything will be hunky dorey?.....of course i realise that YOU are happy to reduce the entire population of europe to penury (equal misery for all)
rubbish, you are very "selective" in your reading.....(you have to be to prop up your nonsense)

I have already suggested that a far more practical solution would be to get prefabbed housing built for these refugees ....
You instead argue at every turn to deny them. That speaks volumes to me this has everything to do with your pessimistic views you have of Muslims

And......is there anything to be "optimistic" about??

Blimey what a load of inane drivel.
Not once have I denied other problems, but the pressing problem at present in this instance is many displaced people. Due top the numbers and no you have offered no sensible solution what so ever
Al you are doing is offering the most pathetic arguments to deny helping people by then claiming off other people who need help when all should be helped together
Sorry its get boring now but you have no ethical or moral argument to back you here and you know it.
The problem you have is by saying you want to only help a small amount of people fails to grasp that the point should be to help all.
Then I get tired of your inane claims of what I want done to a country when I rightly showed this Nurse was being utterly selfish.
These properties have a purpose to help those in need.
She once filled those requirements and now does not. Forget the refugee situation she should not then even stay in that property, the point you missed. She had access to this when she needed this but has no right to remain after she no longer has need of such a large place that can be used by countless others in need. You have crapped onto me countless times over how it was a disaster to sell off many council properties. So you are changing your arguments like the wind.
On every count you have the weaker argument here and it is born from bigotry Victor and there is no way you can deny this

I notice that you carefully avoid my solution ...(its that selective reading again)

and yes it was a disaster to sell of the council housing stock...but what has that to do with this ...jack shit.....

as I say...wait and see next will be social housing landlords being bribed by better rent payments from the councils to house refugees

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:36 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:really didge...

it is clear to me that you HAVNT seen the ghettos of birmingham and bradford etc....

they make the WORST of our "sink estates" look positvely good, and the reality isnt that these are just "poor estates" but square miles of ....well.....go and take a look.........

That post so was so poor, bigoted, prejudiced, wrong, appalling, it does not even warrant a respectful reply

because you cant answer it, because you know its true......??

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:41 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

That post so was so poor, bigoted, prejudiced, wrong, appalling, it does not even warrant a respectful reply

because you cant answer it, because you know its true......??

Oh but I did answer and showed it was utter bollocks Victor.
Your previous post is again just looking to not help some people because like here you have the most discrminating views against them. Also your solutuion allows them into the country, well done you are progressing. Hey ho you are entittled to your views, stiil respect you loads but not on this topic.

Now I have to go so have a good evening

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:43 pm

AND ...heres anotrher interesting thought for you

most, if not all of these refugees have no propper papers, and those that they do have cannot be trusted (given they may well be forged)

so logically we can never be sure that they are who they say they are
and therfore, equally logically we cannot EVER run "background checks" on them

SO, following that logic....not one of them can EVER work in "care industries/hospitals etc ...in fact they can NEVER work with "vulnerable people" OR children...not even the few women.....

BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER>>>>EVER >>>>>pass the requirement to obtain the required CRB checks

or are we going to see the law changed to "accomodate " (yet again) and obviously to the detriment of our people....both those who ARE vulnerable AND those who are seeking employment in the field.....

so much for how they are going to all become a solution for our "care community"

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:45 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

Oh but I did answer and showed it was utter bollocks Victor.
Your previous post is again just looking to not help some people because like here you have the most discrminating views against them. Also your solutuion allows them into the country, well done you are progressing.

perhaps all it means is you are learning to read....

I have never said that they should NOT be allowed into the country

I have said they they should be allowed in ...but ONLY when certain conditions are met......

Hey ho you are entittled to your views, stiil respect you loads but not on this topic.

Now I have to go so have a good evening

by eddie Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:46 pm

Vic if you use caps in your post then didge will assume you're shouting.
He told me off about it.

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:47 pm

didge can assume all he wants...he does a lot of that anyway......

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:50 pm

eddie wrote:Vic if you use caps in your post then didge will assume you're shouting.
He told me off about it.

Now you have been relegated to an immature level of 1.
lol you clearly are emotional because you wont let it go, that is really sad Eddie.
You look for any supporter to continue this or more so look for acceptabce to your view as if a consensus of some postersmakes your view right.

Blimey, move on or continue you in your quest for approval, either way its just funny to me to see.

Cheers Eddie

See you tomrrow.

Laughing

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:52 pm

victorismyhero wrote:didge can assume all he wants...he does a lot of that anyway......

lol as soon as posters can only talk about me, I know they have no validity, they seek me instead lol

Happy days, you can sit and continue to talk about me Victor Laughing

Its not going to make your views in anyway right.

Cheers Elmer

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

come now quill, lets be realistic

between you and me, which of us would have the greater understanding of the subtle cultural nuances between a man living in washington vs one living in florida or alabama??

you see quill,the very fact that you are completely ignorant of european law and more importantly its individual cultures and society structures - yes,plural - coupled with the facts that not only are we living in immediate proximity to the crisis, but have been the unfortunate recipients of said immigrants for the last 2 decade, means that we are not only the percipient witnesses but active participant witnesses as well

you are ,by your lack of participation in the multicultural murderfest that we ,and now europe (happily, if spitefully so) are being subjected to, makes you an outside OBSERVER and COMMENTATOR, a percipient witness my friend,you are not.

so when you offer your long winded high brow pearls of wisdom, rest assured that the rest of us are rolling our eyes and thinking "what the fuck is this dickhead talking about".

This is the kind of random self-talk and impulsive thought processes that I'm sure the Germans went through in and around 1933. Incidental connections, spontaneous invention of facts, working backwards from conclusions you want to see, to causes that would make you right. Yep, Christ was a German; Satan was a Jew. C'mon Churchill, you haven't lived with them like we have. Look at 'em over there in Poland...bet if we put fences around 'em they'd work better!

This is why I say, Thank god for good research and disciplined thought.

"good research and disciplined thought"

ah yes the peace whimper of the arm chair crusader sheltered behind the walls of his white breb suburb,cloistered in his precious armour of naivety and denial

has there ever been a more pathetic creature???

by eddie Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:03 pm

NIGHT DIDGE

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:06 pm

What came first... the open invite... or were the hordes already on their way and the 'invite' was just to down play the invasion...!!!???

by Guest Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:16 pm

victorismyhero wrote:AND ...heres anotrher interesting thought for you

most, if not all of these refugees have no propper papers, and those that they do have cannot be trusted (given they may well be forged)

so logically we can never be sure that they are who they say they are
and therfore, equally logically we cannot EVER run "background checks" on them

SO, following that logic....not one of them can EVER work in "care industries/hospitals etc ...in fact they can NEVER work with "vulnerable people" OR children...not even the few women.....

BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER>>>>EVER >>>>>pass the requirement to obtain the required CRB checks

or are we going to see the law changed to "accomodate " (yet again) and obviously to the detriment of our people....both those who ARE vulnerable AND those who are seeking employment in the field.....

so much for how they are going to all become a solution for our "care community"

by Original Quill Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:21 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

This is the kind of random self-talk and impulsive thought processes that I'm sure the Germans went through in and around 1933. Incidental connections, spontaneous invention of facts, working backwards from conclusions you want to see, to causes that would make you right. Yep, Christ was a German; Satan was a Jew. C'mon Churchill, you haven't lived with them like we have. Look at 'em over there in Poland...bet if we put fences around 'em they'd work better!

This is why I say, Thank god for good research and disciplined thought.

"good research and disciplined thought"

ah yes the peace whimper of the arm chair crusader sheltered behind the walls of his white breb suburb,cloistered in his precious armour of naivety and denial

has there ever been a more pathetic creature???

You are angry and upset...perhaps at having nothing to say?? You've not been there. You've not cracked a book on the subject. You're not even a good googler.

Yet you've got: 'Peace whimpr'? 'Arm chair crusader'? 'Sheltered behind walls'? 'White breb (sic) suburb'? 'Precious armour of naivety and denial'? 'Pathetic creature'?

Do you get paid by the adjective? Arguments are made by putting ideas together. You can't even put relevant syllables together.

Why do I bother?

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:54 am

victorismyhero wrote:AND ...heres anotrher interesting thought for you

most, if not all of these refugees have no propper papers, and those that they do have cannot be trusted (given they may well be forged)
Incorrect from the start. Becuase again you say so without any validity.
Seriously did you actually plan out your replies.
You think saying something because you are respected thus qualifies as valid?
Errrrrr I do not think so

so logically we can never be sure that they are who they say they are
and therfore, equally logically we cannot EVER run "background checks" on them
Well we can be sure that the vast majority have fled violence and persecution, as 6 million have been displaced. Syria has a previous total of people who lived there and now this has diminsished by over 6 million. Did you even factor that in Victor?
Clearly not

SO, following that logic....not one of them can EVER work in "care industries/hospitals etc ...in fact they can NEVER work with "vulnerable people" OR children...not even the few women.....
What logic, it was illogical based off your own hearsay and failing that being able to even then show they are not still refugees. So what logic, you set a president off something you just made up
That is just daft

BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER>>>>EVER >>>>>pass the requirement to obtain the required CRB checks
Really, the millions of them? All of them? is that your angle now?

or are we going to see the law changed to "accomodate " (yet again) and obviously to the detriment of our people....both those who ARE vulnerable AND those who are seeking employment in the field.....
Accomadate? They are humans, where nations already accomadate those needing help. Why is it you actually have no argument against that. The ony daft one you have is invented, nationalism.
Massive failure mate

so much for how they are going to all become a solution for our "care community"

So much for your point it fell apart based off you inventing bollcks
Do you know the worst part of your claim Victor?
Not how you claimed it was logicalm, that was just stupid.
You claimed a hearsay point on where you had already decided many were not refugees based on your opinion was then a standard. It was seriously utterly absurd. You would have to prove they were not refugees whether with papers or not.

Doh

Night

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:08 am

No... they would have to prove their legitimacy...

Just turning up and saying you are whoever from wherever and fleeing whatever you what to make up... is not legitimate reason for anything any more as so many people are doing the same...

The Only solution is to return Africans to the African union to deal with, middle eastern to Arab league to deal with, and others to their respective regional areas.

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:02 am

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

"good research and disciplined thought"

ah yes the peace whimper of the arm chair crusader sheltered behind the walls of his white breb suburb,cloistered in his precious armour of naivety and denial

has there ever been a more pathetic creature???

You are angry and upset...perhaps at having nothing to say?? You've not been there. You've not cracked a book on the subject. You're not even a good googler.

Yet you've got: 'Peace whimpr'? 'Arm chair crusader'? 'Sheltered behind walls'? 'White breb (sic) suburb'? 'Precious armour of naivety and denial'? 'Pathetic creature'?

Do you get paid by the adjective? Arguments are made by putting ideas together. You can't even put relevant syllables together.

Why do I bother?

I dont know quill, why do you bother??

you have yet to put an argument together that involves an idea greater then yourself

"look at me im quill ive studied a hundred books and now know all about those subjects"

tell me quill do all the books you have cracked end with "...........for dummies"

by Original Quill Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:12 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You are angry and upset...perhaps at having nothing to say?? You've not been there. You've not cracked a book on the subject. You're not even a good googler.

Yet you've got: 'Peace whimpr'? 'Arm chair crusader'? 'Sheltered behind walls'? 'White breb (sic) suburb'? 'Precious armour of naivety and denial'? 'Pathetic creature'?

Do you get paid by the adjective? Arguments are made by putting ideas together. You can't even put relevant syllables together.

Why do I bother?

I dont know quill, why do you bother??

you have yet to put an argument together that involves an idea greater then yourself

"look at me im quill ive studied a hundred books and now know all about those subjects"

tell me quill do all the books you have cracked end with "...........for dummies"

Your jealous, smells. You shouldn't be. Just open up and have an honest conversation for once. It must be hell trying to be clever with an empty head.

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:45 am

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:AND ...heres anotrher interesting thought for you

most, if not all of these refugees have no propper papers, and those that they do have cannot be trusted (given they may well be forged)
Incorrect from the start. Becuase again you say so without any validity.
Seriously did you actually plan out your replies.
You think saying something because you are respected thus qualifies as valid?
Errrrrr I do not think so
bull shit it is fact that most have no papers

so logically we can never be sure that they are who they say they are
and therfore, equally logically we cannot EVER run "background checks" on them
Well we can be sure that the vast majority have fled violence and persecution, as 6 million have been displaced. Syria has a previous total of people who lived there and now this has diminsished by over 6 million. Did you even factor that in Victor?
Clearly not

utterly irrelevant to the point I was making....whatever their reason for comming here.....does NOT change the fact that for most we will NEVER be able to do the background checks required for providing for instance the CRB

so tell me O all Knowing one...how are you going to CRB check one who wants to work with children???

SO, following that logic....not one of them can EVER work in "care industries/hospitals etc ...in fact they can NEVER work with "vulnerable people" OR children...not even the few women.....
Nothing illogical about it.....given that many have lost or destropyed papers...and those that have them we cannot necessarily say they are NOT forged

What logic, it was illogical based off your own hearsay and failing that being able to even then show they are not still refugees. So what logic, you set a president off something you just made up
That is just daft

BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER>>>>EVER >>>>>pass the requirement to obtain the required CRB checks
Really, the millions of them? All of them? is that your angle now?

YES...any of them.....simply because.....get this.....they cannot pass the background checks required for a CRB

or are we going to see the law changed to "accomodate " (yet again) and obviously to the detriment of our people....both those who ARE vulnerable AND those who are seeking employment in the field.....
Accomadate? They are humans, where nations already accomadate those needing help. Why is it you actually have no argument against that. The ony daft one you have is invented, nationalism.
Massive failure mate

so much for how they are going to all become a solution for our "care community"

So much for your point it fell apart based off you inventing bollcks
Do you know the worst part of your claim Victor?
Not how you claimed it was logicalm, that was just stupid.
You claimed a hearsay point on where you had already decided many were not refugees based on your opinion was then a standard. It was seriously utterly absurd. You would have to prove they were not refugees whether with papers or not.

Doh

Night

Do you kbnow the worst part about your reply.....

It didnt even answer the question I asked

YOU assumed, yet again that I was talking about their refugee status, and their right or otherwise of assylum

try reading what folks type BEFORE opening mouth....

YOU DO KNOW what a CRB is , dont you???

and why we have it??

and what its for???

it is quite simple....granted they are allowed to come here

HOW are you going to do the checks NECESSARY for the CRB (which is an absolute legal requirement to work with vulnerable people....like elderly children etc.....)

the answer is you cant......

SO they can never work in "care industries".... which kinda makes a mess of some of YOUR claims.....

UNLESS of course you are going to alter the law.....and allow a lower standard for these people......

and THAT my friend is discriminatory against the indiginous people(of all races and creds that live here.....

AND will undermine that faith people have in carers even more......

The CRB was invented to protect vulnerable people, and to give people faith that those woprking with them were "safe"

are you suggesting that we should abandon that????

in which case how will anyone know if that new care assistant or nursery nurse is in fact "properly checked" or do you just expect them to take it on faith that this person is NOT a criminal of some sort........
moreover what ARE they going to do...just issue CRB certification...without doing any checks???
in which case the CRB system will fold.....

AND if they DO that....they will have to do it for everyone...NOT just the refugees.....

Answer the bloody question....NOT what YOU imagine the question to be........this is NOT about their status...however much you would like it to be......

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:52 am

You view is based off a legal system where refugees have to prove their plight in where Britain has one of the most strict and harsh asylum systems to aply into.

Not only that where some have been denied here they have been excepted elsewhere. Just because one nation does not believe their claim does not mean they are not genuine refugees.

The fact is millions of people have been displaced which you seem to want to wash under the carpet, where they are most definately people fleeing conflicts in the vast majority

So there was nothing logical about your view, in fact it has to be one of the most stupid ones you have ever tried to claim based off a legal system in Briatin which has been judged very unfair

Anyway I am bored of your bigotry to be honest, there is no ethical or moral argument you can make because by your claims above you would have to aplly to anyone cominig into this country, business, tourism, migrants etc, which you will always have people get through unless you completely stopped anyone coming in or out which will never happen, because it will cripple this country. You are just offering up the moest weakest and poorest arguments to deny helping countless refugees, based on fear of some who are not.

So sorry to burst your bubble what you claim does not make a refugee valid is based different according to each country where again even then that does not mean they are still not genuine refugees fleeing persecution and violence

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:04 pm

Cuchulain wrote:You view is based off a legal system where refugees have to prove their plight in where Britain has one of the most strict and harsh asylum systems to aply into.

Not only that where some have been denied here they have been excepted elsewhere. Just because one nation does not believe their claim does not mean they are not genuine refugees.

The fact is millions of people have been displaced which you seem to want to wash under the carpet, where they are most definately people fleeing conflicts in the vast majority

So there was nothing logical about your view, in fact it has to be one of the most stupid ones you have ever tried to claim based off a legal system in Briatin which has been judged very unfair

Anyway I am bored of your bigotry to be honest, there is no ethical or moral argument you can make because by your claims above you would have to aplly to anyone cominig into this country, business, tourism, migrants etc, which you will always have people get through unless you completely stopped anyone coming in or out which will never happen, because it will cripple this country. You are just offering up the moest weakest and poorest arguments to deny helping countless refugees, based on fear of some who are not.

So sorry to burst your bubble what you claim does not make a refugee valid is based different according to each country where again even then that does not mean they are still not genuine refugees fleeing persecution and violence

once again yoiu fail to answer the QUESTION

IT has NOTHING to do with even their right to come here as refugees....

it is a practical question of what to do when they ARE here....

YES we can accept them as refugees on "reasonable trust"

BUT that CANNOT be applied when they seek work that requires a CRB

UNLESS you alter the law IN THEIR FAVOUR which is firstly discriminatory to indiginous peoples, putting THEM at a disadvantage

AND
secondly runs a very sever risk that some of tose applying for care jobs will NOT be "desirable" in that industry...

WHY do we have CRB checks

do you KNOW what they are and what they are for??????

are you REALLY suggesting we should throw away the work of tireless campaigners......simply to accomodate these people....

or is it that you simply cannot live with the thought that your cliams that these people will fill gaps in our "care system" is wrong.......becasue they cant...becasue they cannot pass a CRB?

this particular argument is NOT to do with their staus...how many more times
It is SOLEY to do with one very specific point.......

likewise I'm getting tired of you deflecting and warping the argument......

I'll put it simply

they have no papers, OR what papers they DO have cannot be verified......yes?

they MUST have this to pass a CRB.....yes?

SO......

HOW are they ever going to work in "care industries", where a CRB is COMPULSARY?????

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:09 pm

What a load of drivel again where you keep harping on about jobs with CRB, fine, they do not do these jobs, that still should not hinder them from being employed in other job roles that do not require them.
If you want the law changed on this then fine, but you are moving the goal posts so much in your desperation here its got beyond a joke.
So you then harp opn about papers, where again in Britains case I understand they will be sending ships to bring in the quota of refugees, which no doubt you have failed to understand its only 20,000 Syrians. Not only that Britain has small numbers of refugees come here.

So to put your mind at rest:

Cameron said he will be working with the UN high commissioner for refugees (UNHCR) to identify those that will be allowed to come to the UK. Full funding of the expanded refugee programme will be given to councils and devolved administration in the first full year, with the cash coming from the government overseas aid programme. He said the pace at which the 20,000 refugees come to the UK will depend on the speed with which the UNHCR can identify refugees and how quickly local councils are able to process the applicants.

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:26 pm

Cuchulain wrote:What a load of drivel again where you keep harping on about jobs with CRB, fine, they do not do these jobs, that still should not hinder them from being employed in other job roles that do not require them.

AHHHHHH at LAST...we have it

didge finally admits that they WONT be able to do the "care jobs" so in fact your previous claims that they will be such an asset being as we need ALL these refugees to fill gaps in our care system (since we are a nation of old codgers) are shown to be so much cobblers.....

you do realise that a good half of your argument sunk without trace, and you are ONLY left with the "moral" argument of "helping those in need" since the "economic benefit" argument has just slid below the waves

If you want the law changed on this then fine, but you are moving the goal posts so much in your desperation here its got beyond a joke.

ERM...it MAY have escaped your notice but THAT is precisely what I DONT WANT.....

So you then harp opn about papers, where again in Britains case I understand they will be sending ships to bring in the quota of refugees, which no doubt you have failed to understand its only 20,000 Syrians. Not only that Britain has small numbers of refugees come here.

So to put your mind at rest:

Cameron said he will be working with the UN high commissioner for refugees (UNHCR) to identify those that will be allowed to come to the UK. Full funding of the expanded refugee programme will be given to councils and devolved administration in the first full year, with the cash coming from the government overseas aid programme. He said the pace at which the 20,000 refugees come to the UK will depend on the speed with which the UNHCR can identify refugees and how quickly local councils are able to process the applicants.

all irrelevent.....

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:30 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:What a load of drivel again where you keep harping on about jobs with CRB, fine, they do not do these jobs, that still should not hinder them from being employed in other job roles that do not require them.

AHHHHHH at LAST...we have it

didge finally admits that they WONT be able to do the "care jobs" so in fact your previous claims that they will be such an asset being as we need ALL these refugees to fill gaps in our care system (since we are a nation of old codgers) are shown to be so much cobblers.....

you do realise that a good half of your argument sunk without trace, and you are ONLY left with the "moral" argument of "helping those in need" since the "economic benefit" argument has just slid below the waves

If you want the law changed on this then fine, but you are moving the goal posts so much in your desperation here its got beyond a joke.

ERM...it MAY ghave escaped your notice but THAT is precisely what I DONT WANT.....

So you then harp opn about papers, where again in Britains case I understand they will be sending ships to bring in the quota of refugees, which no doubt you have failed to understand its only 20,000 Syrians. Not only that Britain has small numbers of refugees come here.

So to put your mind at rest:

Cameron said he will be working with the UN high commissioner for refugees (UNHCR) to identify those that will be allowed to come to the UK. Full funding of the expanded refugee programme will be given to councils and devolved administration in the first full year, with the cash coming from the government overseas aid programme. He said the pace at which the 20,000 refugees come to the UK will depend on the speed with which the UNHCR can identify refugees and how quickly local councils are able to process the applicants.

all irrelevent.....

Wow is that your big score point that I agree they should not be able to apply for certain job roles.
You do realise I was only referring to refugees and not migrants and immigrants?

lol

Refugees are a very small fraction of people that come here compared to migrants and immigrants, who will have paperwork. So that was hilarious and daft fr4om your point of you. Fine a number of people who come to this country, refugees should never be allowed to apply for these roles. This does not mean migrants, immigrants cannot do so.

You do realise your argument was utterly crap mate as it is only in regards to a small percentage of people that come here. We still need migration here to address the age balance. So a small group of refugees who need help is not a burden, as their need is great. I also never said we need refugees to fill care jobs but immigration, so nice try Victor but your poor plan just took a nose dive

Epic fail

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:36 pm

I would also add their is many specialist jobs that do not require a CRB, so even then refugees needs can be utilized,
Seems like all you have to debate back on this Victor is hot air and bigotry.

Not your finest debating display either.

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:48 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

all irrelevent.....

Wow is that your big score point that I agree they should not be able to apply for certain job roles.
You do realise I was only referring to refugees and not migrants and immigrants?

so was I dumbo

lol

Refugees are a very small fraction of people that come here compared to migrants and immigrants, who will have paperwork. So that was hilarious and daft fr4om your point of you. Fine a number of people who come to this country, refugees should never be allowed to apply for these roles. This does not mean migrants, immigrants cannot do so.

never said that dumbo

You do realise your argument was utterly crap mate as it is only in regards to a small percentage of people that come here. We still need migration here to address the age balance. So a small group of refugees who need help is not a burden, as their need is great. I also never said we need refugees to fill care jobs but immigration, so nice try Victor but your poor plan just took a nose dive

Epic fail

nope.because in earlier posts on the refugees you backed this very argument,,,,that they would help fill gaps in care situtions....

intellectual dishonesty is not a good debating point either didge ...and both you AND the german govt (do THEY have crb or an equivalent??) made this very point.

agreed the poor bastards need some help..I havnt actually said otherwise

however

before we help these people ,we need to have the debate that centers around the plain and simple fact that IF we can "afford/adapt/whatever to them ....then we CAN ALSO affort to help our own needy.

IF that is NOT the case...and we cant infact afford to help our own...then how can we afford to help others ....

this leads therfor to the conclusion that your precious tories are LIARS, that there is in fact money a plenty, and austerity has been nothing but a big CON....

Germany in state of siege!!! - Page 5 2190311264

Germany in state of siege!!! - Page 5 2190311264

see there are implications beyond the pure needs of a few thousand waifs and strays.......

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:56 pm

That is no bother Victor as I just said there ios plenty of other skilled shortages.
You know full well my view on the care system is mainly based on migration, of which you then must agree is valid and needed. You only have issue with refugees doing this roles, which I agreed they should not work. So its you going off another debate on immigration altogether, so its you actually being disingenuous here using another debate and thus clearly moving the goal posts.
Like I said there is still countless other skilled shortage job roles, there is even non-skilled shortages, so on that I still have the need for them. Not only that but the humanitarian need to help. You were trying poorly to conflate to different arguments off where I rightly said we still need people to address the age gap balance. Refugees are small in the number of people that come here of which they can still be of loads of use in regards to job shortages.

All you have is poor prejudice, bigotry and lots of hot air.

You are still just about keeping your head afloat but you are clearly sinking fast

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:59 pm

Maybe these men should stop avoiding conscription into the Syrian army and actually fight for their own country and their people!?

by Guest Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:10 pm

Anyway Victor, neither of us are going to yeild on this. I think I have rightly shown the nurse has liitle to complain about because she certainly no longer is entittled to stay in a property soley for the purpose to house people in need. We are only getting 20,000 of which will be checked to see if they are refugees and countless other points, where you have just used fear based arguments.

Have things to do so catch you later

Have a good afternoon

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:32 pm

I'm sure there are plenty of homeless German families who should be housed there, if anyone should...

by Guest Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

I dont know quill, why do you bother??

you have yet to put an argument together that involves an idea greater then yourself

"look at me im quill ive studied a hundred books and now know all about those subjects"

tell me quill do all the books you have cracked end with "...........for dummies"

Your jealous, smells. You shouldn't be. Just open up and have an honest conversation for once. It must be hell trying to be clever with an empty head.

oh im not jealous quill im grateful, youve lived your with through books but have never actually lived your life, the things you have read about might as well be dragons and orc as far as you know.

for all the books youve read, the closest you will ever be to being an actually expert is a "percipient witness" from a computer screen.

that is the difference between us - books are written about people like me and read by people like you. study

by eddie Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:09 pm

Hahahahahahaha lol!

by Guest Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:12 pm

Now about THIS???

from http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/grade-school-girls-in-germany-ordered-to-cover-up-so-as-not-to-provoke-Muslim-refugees/

GRADE SCHOOL GIRLS in Germany Ordered to Cover Up – So As Not to Provoke Muslim Refugees

Jim Hoft Sep 8th, 2015 3:07 pm

Parents of children at a Bavarian grade school were told to cover up their grade school girls so they won’t tempt the Muslim refugees in the gymnasium next door.
german school girls

Parents were warned — “Miniskirts could lead to misunderstandings.”

The grade school sent a letter home this week.
The Local reported:

A school in Bavaria has sent a letter home to parents warning them not to let their daughters wear revealing blouses or short skirts, because emergency accommodation for refugees has been set up next to the gym.

A week ago emergency accommodation for 200 Syrian refugees was erected right next to the gym of Wilhelm-Diess-Gymnasium in Pocking, Bavaria, Die Welt reports.

The gym has been closed as a result, and PE lessons have been relocated to a nearby primary school, but the school is still worried about the refugees interacting with students.

So worried in fact that the headteacher recently sent out a letter to parents to give reassurance about extra security measures.

“For the refugees, access to the school gardens and buildings is strictly forbidden. The same goes for the school grounds during the day. The number of teachers on duty during breaks has been increased,” read the letter from headteacher Martin Thalhammer.

The letter goes on to give students instructions on how to deal with the situation:

“The Syrian citizens are mainly Muslims and speak Arabic. The refugees are marked by their own culture. Because our school is directly next to where they are staying, modest clothing should be adhered to, in order to avoid discrepancies. Revealing tops or blouses, short shorts or miniskirts could lead to misunderstandings.”

The letter has not been met favourably by some parents, but a local politician, who did not want to be named, told Die Welt the move was “absolutely necessary”.

“When Muslim teenage boys go to open air swimming pools, they are overwhelmed when they see girls in bikinis,” he said.

“These boys, who come from a culture where for women it is frowned upon to show naked skin, follow girls and bother them without realizing. Obviously this is concerning for us,” he continued.

by eddie Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:15 pm

Send any person home who causes problems.

From the moment we change laws of a country to accommodate outsiders - we are up shut creek.

Victor would you start a new thread about this please?

by Guest Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:16 pm

what next??

all residents ordered to attend mosques so as not to "incite" these people???

all pork butchers must close???

god help em when the germans start celebrating christmas.....

by Guest Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:16 pm

eddie wrote:Send any person home who causes problems.

From the moment we change laws of a country to accommodate outsiders - we are up shut creek.

Victor would you start a new thread about this please?

by your command Germany in state of siege!!! - Page 5 3489511464

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