Tower Hamlets Muslim girl removed from parents for terrorist supporting behaviour

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-judges-removes-east-london-teenager-extremist-parents-1516549

A 'victim' or another one willingly conspiring...!?

If a 'victim' then where are the prosecutions of the instigators and terrorist supporters???

If willing conspirer... then where are the prosecutions of both her and the other instigators and terrorist supporters...!?

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
I have never tried to claim that people can't be influenced by others... in fact I have argued that kids are the subject of left wing bias and the pc agenda by teachers in schools on many occasions.

But this is different to criminal activity and especially supporting terrorism and beheadings etc... the girl was 16 and had her own mind to know right from wrong but chose to support terrorism.

So you did not answer my points Tommy or show me this left wing extremism they are being indoctrinated with?

Again what crime was committed by the girl?

So again

So you are claiming that people cannot influence children and that there is no such thing as indoctrination?
Please prove your evidence that this is not the case?

What age does a person become adult Tommy?

What age does a persons brain fully develope Tommy?

If a child has been introduced to nothing but hateful views formed around an ideology, are they to blame if they know nothing better?

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:28 pm

Where did I say "extremist left wing indoctrination"...!!!???

I have agreed that influencing can and does happen, all the time in fact, but this is criminal and terrorist supporting activity and the girl is criminally responsible.

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:28 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Don't you mean brainwashing programmes?

No, unbrainwashing would be better, as have you attended any then by that view point?

I don't understand the syntax of your question.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:29 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

No, unbrainwashing would be better, as have you attended any then by that view point?

I don't understand the syntax of your question.

How can you make a view on the matter when you have not witnessed or studied a program?

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:31 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I don't understand the syntax of your question.

How can you make a view on the matter when you have not witnessed or studied a program?

I don't have a view. Never said I did.

I was commenting on your post.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:32 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

How can you make a view on the matter when you have not witnessed or studied a program?

I don't have a view. Never said I did.

I was commenting on your post.

So you made zero input then

Thanks sharing an irrelevant view then

by Fuzzy Zack Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:34 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I don't have a view. Never said I did.

I was commenting on your post.

So you made zero input then

Thanks sharing an irrelevant view then

You're welcome.

by Ben Reilly Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:51 pm

Nems wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:This girl was obviously taught to think like a terrorist by her parents. That's obviously a horrible thing to do to a child. Nobody would talk about throwing her in prison if she'd been abused in any other way than this.

She won't have been removed from the parents to be put in prison. She was removed to be safeguarded. She has been brainwashed by her parents. Can that be undone?
Is any of the parents behaviour criminal? Can they be prosecuted?

Not familiar enough with Britain's laws to know whether the parents can be prosecuted, but I'd think a good barrister (yea me) would be able to make a convincing case for psychological abuse.

I think with counseling and therapy she could overcome this in time. I would think a big part of that would be having her in controlled interactions with Westerners, so that she can begin to see us as human beings again.

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Inciting violence and terrorism are crimes plus they had bomb making guides too... another crime and also corroborating evidence as to the fact they were inciting/planning violence/terrorism etc...

This has already been conclusively proven in deciding to remove the girl... what is missing is a prosecution of the guilty party's!!!

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:04 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nems wrote:

She won't have been removed from the parents to be put in prison. She was removed to be safeguarded. She has been brainwashed by her parents. Can that be undone?
Is any of the parents behaviour criminal? Can they be prosecuted?

Not familiar enough with Britain's laws to know whether the parents can be prosecuted, but I'd think a good barrister (yea me) would be able to make a convincing case for psychological abuse.

I think with counseling and therapy she could overcome this in time. I would think a big part of that would be having her in controlled interactions with Westerners, so that she can begin to see us as human beings again.

You mean they should "brainwash" her into turning against her family. If this girl was 18, would you think she was a victim too, or do people suddenly become perpetrators instead on their 18th birthday?

What about the people who killed a lot of your fellow citizens in 2001? Were they "victims" too?

If a 16-year old was caught with a bomb, would you say they were a "victim"?

The people who blew up our underground were young - one of them was 18. Was he a "victim" or a murderer?

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:06 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Inciting violence and terrorism are crimes plus they had bomb making guides too... another crime and also corroborating evidence as to the fact they were inciting/planning violence/terrorism etc...

This has already been conclusively proven in deciding to remove the girl... what is missing is a prosecution of the guilty party's!!!

They will never stop this descent into madness because people insist on saying that the supporters of terrorism are "victims". The jihadi brides are never to blame, they're always "victims", even though they voluntarily go off to join a barbaric terrorist group. This girl would have done that if they hadn't stopped her.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Inciting violence and terrorism are crimes plus they had bomb making guides too... another crime and also corroborating evidence as to the fact they were inciting/planning violence/terrorism etc...

This has already been conclusively proven in deciding to remove the girl... what is missing is a prosecution of the guilty party's!!!

They will never stop this descent into madness because people insist on saying that the supporters of terrorism are "victims". The jihadi brides are never to blame, they're always "victims", even though they voluntarily go off to join a barbaric terrorist group. This girl would have done that if they hadn't stopped her.

Are y claiming that people cannot influence children and that there is no such thing as indoctrination?
Please prove your evidence that this is not the case?

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:12 pm

Didge clearly thinks that all people who commit a crime have been "indoctrinated" as children.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Didge clearly thinks that all people who commit a crime have been "indoctrinated" as children.

I have asked you these same questions now many times without you providing an answer but poorly trying to duck out of doing so.
I have made no view you claim above, I am asking you the following:

Are you claiming that people cannot influence children and that there is no such thing as indoctrination?
Please prove your evidence that this is not the case?

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:20 pm

Stop spamming Didge.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:21 pm

I'm not going to waste time talking to people who sympathise with potential terrorists and murderers. There will be an incident here sooner or later, and then all the do-gooders will be looking around for someone to blame - other than the perpetrators of course.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:22 pm

This girl actually wants to be a doctor. I really hope they don't let her ...

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Stop spamming Didge.

Answer the questions.

Which as seen you cannot which means your points are invalid.

Next you will be telling me victims of child sex abuse are not victims at all and that they cannot be persuaded or coerced.

If you make claims, back them up, where as seen you have not.

This like the judge rightly said is child abuse.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:23 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Stop spamming Didge.

Answer the questions.

Which as seen you cannot which means your points are invalid.

Next you will be telling me victims of child sex abuse are not victims at all and that they cannot be persuaded or coerced.

If you make claims, back them up, where as seen you have not.

This like the judge rightly said is child abuse.

Stop bothering me - you're an ISIS sympathiser.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Answer the questions.

Which as seen you cannot which means your points are invalid.

Next you will be telling me victims of child sex abuse are not victims at all and that they cannot be persuaded or coerced.

If you make claims, back them up, where as seen you have not.

This like the judge rightly said is child abuse.

Stop bothering me - you're an ISIS sympathiser.

Deflection alreat and now poor childsh immaturity

Making unfounded claims

So as seen you cannot answer the points and decide to poorly stir

Game over and easily schooling another oster with childish mentality

by Ben Reilly Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nems wrote:

She won't have been removed from the parents to be put in prison. She was removed to be safeguarded. She has been brainwashed by her parents. Can that be undone?
Is any of the parents behaviour criminal? Can they be prosecuted?

Not familiar enough with Britain's laws to know whether the parents can be prosecuted, but I'd think a good barrister (yea me) would be able to make a convincing case for psychological abuse.

I think with counseling and therapy she could overcome this in time. I would think a big part of that would be having her in controlled interactions with Westerners, so that she can begin to see us as human beings again.

You mean they should "brainwash" her into turning against her family. If this girl was 18, would you think she was a victim too, or do people suddenly become perpetrators instead on their 18th birthday?

What about the people who killed a lot of your fellow citizens in 2001? Were they "victims" too?

If a 16-year old was caught with a bomb, would you say they were a "victim"?

The people who blew up our underground were young - one of them was 18. Was he a "victim" or a murderer?

I don't think helping a person become a mentally healthy, peaceful member of society can be called brainwashing. I think that if you believe helping someone overcome the warped ideology that drives ISIS is brainwashing them, you must be deeply confused.

Of course everyone who is filled up with enough hate to kill is a victim, in some sense of that word. I think you and Tommy are fearful that anyone considered a victim must automatically be let off scot-free, but there are more important mitigating factors to consider, mainly whether the person has actually committed a crime yet and how severe the crime may have been.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:27 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean they should "brainwash" her into turning against her family. If this girl was 18, would you think she was a victim too, or do people suddenly become perpetrators instead on their 18th birthday?

What about the people who killed a lot of your fellow citizens in 2001? Were they "victims" too?

If a 16-year old was caught with a bomb, would you say they were a "victim"?

The people who blew up our underground were young - one of them was 18. Was he a "victim" or a murderer?

I don't think helping a person become a mentally healthy, peaceful member of society can be called brainwashing. I think that if you believe helping someone overcome the warped ideology that drives ISIS is brainwashing them, you must be deeply confused.

Of course everyone who is filled up with enough hate to kill is a victim, in some sense of that word. I think you and Tommy are fearful that anyone considered a victim must automatically be let off scot-free, but there are more important mitigating factors to consider, mainly whether the person has actually committed a crime yet and how severe the crime may have been.

The girl wants to stay with her family, so in order to change her views, she has to turn on them. She was going off to join ISIS, so clearly she had associated with them, which is a crime in the UK.

by Ben Reilly Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:28 pm

What else would you have expected? She's in her world, not yours.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I don't think helping a person become a mentally healthy, peaceful member of society can be called brainwashing. I think that if you believe helping someone overcome the warped ideology that drives ISIS is brainwashing them, you must be deeply confused.

Of course everyone who is filled up with enough hate to kill is a victim, in some sense of that word. I think you and Tommy are fearful that anyone considered a victim must automatically be let off scot-free, but there are more important mitigating factors to consider, mainly whether the person has actually committed a crime yet and how severe the crime may have been.

The girl wants to stay with her family, so in order to change her views, she has to turn on them. She was going off to join ISIS, so clearly she had associated with them, which is a crime in the UK.

So you are saying a child still cannot love their parents if their views differ?
If this child is helped and seen that such views are wrong, does it mean she will not still love her family?

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:33 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:What else would you have expected? She's in her world, not yours.

Exactly - a world where she supports murderers and terrorists, and wants to join them. She should not be in anyone's world here.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:34 pm

These siblings - no word on how old they are, or if any of them have been arrested, along with the parents. All we hear about are these "victims". What's the point of having a law if those who break it aren't going to be punished?

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:35 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:These siblings - no word on how old they are, or if any of them have been arrested, along with the parents. All we hear about are these "victims". What's the point of having a law if those who break it aren't going to be punished?

Deflection alert again

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:39 pm

She is in great Britain where her proven activities are criminal offences...

We have seen this excuse tried before with the Boston bomber defence also claiming to be a 'victim'...

This girl was completely willing and complicit... but when caught played the victim card!

If she is such a victim then where are the prosecutions of the parents and others involved!?

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:She is in great Britain where her proven activities are criminal offences...

We have seen this excuse tried before with the Boston bomber defence also claiming to be a 'victim'...

This girl was completely willing and complicit... but when caught played the victim card!

If she is such a victim then where are the prosecutions of the parents and others involved!?

She has not committed a crime.
Show what crime she has committed, asking again, where you failed to answer
So are you saying girls who suffer child sex abuse are willing and complicit?
Think carefully before you answer that Tommy

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:She is in great Britain where her proven activities are criminal offences...

We have seen this excuse tried before with the Boston bomber defence also claiming to be a 'victim'...

This girl was completely willing and complicit... but when caught played the victim card!

If she is such a victim then where are the prosecutions of the parents and others involved!?

All this guff about how she should be taken away from her parents. They should be taken away - to prison. She knew what ISIS do, and she still wanted to join them. She's no victim.

They won't do anything to stop any of this Tommy, and then one day the same people who bleat on about "victims" will sit there and watch news footage of the latest terrorist atrocity and cry into their beer. They might even be hypocritical enough to send their condolences to the friends and families of people murdered by terrorists.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:47 pm

Never seen two posters so badly avoid debating when they have no answers.

They think talking between themselves makes their point valid.

Sorry have news for you, its called running scared Rags

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Dodge, just repeating your rubbish means nothing.

Maybe you should read the link in op which has details of her having a hoard of illegal terrorist material... all criminal!!!

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Dodge, just repeating your rubbish means nothing.

Maybe you should read the link in op which has details of her having a hoard of illegal terrorist material... all criminal!!!

I have given you may different points throughout and like I say you and Rags are running scared from these points as you both cannot answer simple questions.
I have read the link.
Now are you going to respond to my questions are continue to keep running away??

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Just answered your question as to what crimes she had committed... is documented in the link... but you only see what you want to see and deny everything else even though it is proven fact!!!

What is the point of talking to an idiot like you!?

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Just answered your question as to what crimes she had committed... is documented in the link... but you only see what you want to see and deny everything else even though it is proven fact!!!

What is the point of talking to an idiot like you!?

So you chose to run away

No surprise there

I ask again what crime has she committed.

Show me the law she has broken?

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:06 pm

I just did dodge!!!

Your refusal to acknowledge the facts is your problem...

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I just did dodge!!!

Your refusal to acknowledge the facts is your problem...

You have shown nothing.

Here is what they were arrested under:

The teenager, her parents and other siblings were arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 on suspicion of possessing information likely to be useful to those who wanted to commit terrorist acts.

The girl herself if this has been introdcued by the parents has then not committed any crime.

Hence why I knew for a fact when i asked you that you could not produce evidence she had committed a a crime and rightly the judge saw she had been indoctrinated with all this info,

You may want to read the terrorism act before engaging in a debate
I take it by your refusal to answer my other points you conceed you are wrong

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/6/contents/enacted

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:19 pm

From the link in op...

"...A police search of the family home in June, uncovered "a plethora of electronic devices", belonging to the teenager, which contained documents such as 44 Ways To Support Jihad and advice on how to avoid airport security.
She had received guidance for making weapons and bombs and had searched online for software to mask a computer's IP address and the response times of the Met Police armed response team.
The East London teenager was set on becoming a 'jihadi bride' and in December she was removed from a Turkey-bound flight as she tried to travel to Syria. When she was interviewed she admitted she wanted to join ISIS..."

You really are a twat dodge!!!

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:From the link in op...

"...A police search of the family home in June, uncovered "a plethora of electronic devices", belonging to the teenager, which contained documents such as 44 Ways To Support Jihad and advice on how to avoid airport security.
She had received guidance for making weapons and bombs and had searched online for software to mask a computer's IP address and the response times of the Met Police armed response team.
The East London teenager was set on becoming a 'jihadi bride' and in December she was removed from a Turkey-bound flight as she tried to travel to Syria. When she was interviewed she admitted she wanted to join ISIS..."

You really are a twat dodge!!!

Yes you are Tommy, because all this has been introduced by the parents.
That is the point you missed
Hence why the Judge did not make her criminally responsible
The words "she received" might help you understand why you need tissue to wipe egg off your face again

You see what happens when you do not even read your own articles properly

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:35 pm

Ok dodge... and black is white and night is day...

Idiot.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:38 pm

How did I guess that as soon as I went offline you would come out with something even more daft.
Tommy you are just not that as clever as you think you are, as easily proven. Its as simple as that.
Start to recognise your limitations.

Laughing

As seen you have failed to address many points and not wasting my time further, as its clear you have no answers.

On that note I bid you a fond farewell

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:48 pm

You are deluded.

by Ben Reilly Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:She is in great Britain where her proven activities are criminal offences...

We have seen this excuse tried before with the Boston bomber defence also claiming to be a 'victim'...

This girl was completely willing and complicit... but when caught played the victim card!

If she is such a victim then where are the prosecutions of the parents and others involved!?

All this guff about how she should be taken away from her parents. They should be taken away - to prison. She knew what ISIS do, and she still wanted to join them. She's no victim.

They won't do anything to stop any of this Tommy, and then one day the same people who bleat on about "victims" will sit there and watch news footage of the latest terrorist atrocity and cry into their beer. They might even be hypocritical enough to send their condolences to the friends and families of people murdered by terrorists.

Nice. So if I don't support locking up a 16-year-old who's been brainwashed by her terrorism-supporting parents, I support the next terrorist attack.

by Raggamuffin Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

All this guff about how she should be taken away from her parents. They should be taken away - to prison. She knew what ISIS do, and she still wanted to join them. She's no victim.

They won't do anything to stop any of this Tommy, and then one day the same people who bleat on about "victims" will sit there and watch news footage of the latest terrorist atrocity and cry into their beer. They might even be hypocritical enough to send their condolences to the friends and families of people murdered by terrorists.

Nice. So if I don't support locking up a 16-year-old who's been brainwashed by her terrorism-supporting parents, I support the next terrorist attack.

You'll be turning a blind eye, yes.

Which bit of she was going off to join ISIS, fully aware of how they behead and kill people, do you not understand?

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nice. So if I don't support locking up a 16-year-old who's been brainwashed by her terrorism-supporting parents, I support the next terrorist attack.

You'll be turning a blind eye, yes.

Which bit of she was going off to join ISIS, fully aware of how they behead and kill people, do you not understand?

What a load of fear based rubbish.
How is he turning a blind eye when she is being taken into care to help her?
So what are you saying you would prefer she goes to ISIS or that she is helped here?
Seriously you have condemned a girl that has been indoctrinated the part you cannot show me evidence against.

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:58 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nems wrote:

She won't have been removed from the parents to be put in prison. She was removed to be safeguarded. She has been brainwashed by her parents. Can that be undone?
Is any of the parents behaviour criminal? Can they be prosecuted?

Not familiar enough with Britain's laws to know whether the parents can be prosecuted, but I'd think a good barrister (yea me) would be able to make a convincing case for psychological abuse.

I think with counseling and therapy she could overcome this in time. I would think a big part of that would be having her in controlled interactions with Westerners, so that she can begin to see us as human beings again.

I hope the parents are prosecuted.
Perhaps controlled interaction with westerners should be encouraged for all these young Muslims at risk of being radicalised. That is of course if their family and imams agree Rolling Eyes

by Guest Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

All this guff about how she should be taken away from her parents. They should be taken away - to prison. She knew what ISIS do, and she still wanted to join them. She's no victim.

They won't do anything to stop any of this Tommy, and then one day the same people who bleat on about "victims" will sit there and watch news footage of the latest terrorist atrocity and cry into their beer. They might even be hypocritical enough to send their condolences to the friends and families of people murdered by terrorists.

Nice. So if I don't support locking up a 16-year-old who's been brainwashed by her terrorism-supporting parents, I support the next terrorist attack.

Ben, is this just a UK thing or do young Americans rush off to join ISIS or be a Jihadi brides ?

by Irn Bru Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:45 am

It is a crime in the UK to attempt to leave and join a terrorisr organisation like ISIS, that's why the police can stop them before they get there.

Fortunately the British courts see this for what it is with young people being radicalised that they choose not to bring charges against them and try to bring them back into mainstream society. They are saving their lives.

And it doesn't matter whether they have been induced by their parents - they would make the same decision even if they hadn't.

Older people have already been charged and convicted under UK law for attempting to leave and join ISIS or have been found in possesion of material related to them.

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:21 am

Nems wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nice. So if I don't support locking up a 16-year-old who's been brainwashed by her terrorism-supporting parents, I support the next terrorist attack.

Ben, is this just a UK thing or do young Americans rush off to join ISIS or be a Jihadi brides ?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/25/world/isis-western-recruits/

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/colorado-teens-syria-odyssey/

by Raggamuffin Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:42 am

Irn Bru wrote:It is a crime in the UK to attempt to leave and join a terrorisr organisation like ISIS, that's why the police can stop them before they get there.

Fortunately the British courts see this for what it is with young people being radicalised that they choose not to bring charges against them and try to bring them back into mainstream society. They are saving their lives.

And it doesn't matter whether they have been induced by their parents - they would make the same decision even if they hadn't.

Older people have already been charged and convicted under UK law for attempting to leave and join ISIS or have been found in possesion of material related to them.

Let's hope they're not putting the lives of others at risk by pandering to them.

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