Tower Hamlets Muslim girl removed from parents for terrorist supporting behaviour

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-judges-removes-east-london-teenager-extremist-parents-1516549

A 'victim' or another one willingly conspiring...!?

If a 'victim' then where are the prosecutions of the instigators and terrorist supporters???

If willing conspirer... then where are the prosecutions of both her and the other instigators and terrorist supporters...!?

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:46 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:It is a crime in the UK to attempt to leave and join a terrorisr organisation like ISIS, that's why the police can stop them before they get there.

Fortunately the British courts see this for what it is with young people being radicalised that they choose not to bring charges against them and try to bring them back into mainstream society. They are saving their lives.

And it doesn't matter whether they have been induced by their parents - they would make the same decision even if they hadn't.

Older people have already been charged and convicted under UK law for attempting to leave and join ISIS or have been found in possesion of material related to them.

Let's hope they're not putting the lives of others at risk by pandering to them.

Absurd thinking.
So do you think we should keep all criminals in jail for life basically due to your fear of risks?

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:01 am

One of the many concerning things about this particular case is the fact that this girl was removed from a plane in December and returned to her parents who claimed they knew nothing.
The parents lied and it appears the police took all they said at face value.
This really begs the question are the police really safeguarding these youngsters or are they too scared to investigate properly for fear of being deemed racist?

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:50 am

So now a claim is made based on no evidence and a claim of racism, where in fact the Police did stop this girl. The parents had lied, yet the Police still uncovered they were lying which puts paid the incredible nonsense just claimed by Nems

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:24 am

They still returned that child to that environment

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:32 am

Yes because they are not mind readers, but clearly things did not add up and they clearly followed though rightly with more investigations.
You should be appllauding them not being critical.

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:33 pm

The police found countless evidence of terrorist supporting activity and material at the home... much of which was actually belonging to this girl who also tried to travel to join ISIS as well as admitting support for them.

If we are to believe that she was not a willing and active participant in this criminal and terrorist activities, but a victim of the incitement of others, specifically being the parents named as the criminal and terrorist wrongdoers in all this... then where are the prosecutions of them for their crimes and terrorist activities!!!???

Plus... what exactly does this 'into care' consist of that she has been reportedly put into...!?

Children in care are allowed to leave the system at 16... so how can 'care' be enforced unless it is really something other than 'care' but really some sort of enforced system of control somewhere!!!???

This whole story stinks!!!

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The police found countless evidence of terrorist supporting activity and material at the home... much of which was actually belonging to this girl who also tried to travel to join ISIS as well as admitting support for them.

If we are to believe that she was not a willing and active participant in this criminal and terrorist activities, but a victim of the incitement of others, specifically being the parents named as the criminal and terrorist wrongdoers in all this... then where are the prosecutions of them for their crimes and terrorist activities!!!???

Plus... what exactly does this 'into care' consist of that she has been reportedly put into...!?

Children in care are allowed to leave the system at 16... so how can 'care' be enforced unless it is really something other than 'care' but really some sort of enforced system of control somewhere!!!???

This whole story stinks!!!

Doesn't look like anyone will face prosecution

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:42 pm

Still talking gobbledygook Tommy.
She had not committed a crime and even the parents were not charged as most of it was material that indoctrinates.
Again the parents to me should be charged with one major criminal act, that is child abuse.

To go off she is 16 and then claim she has not been influenced when a major part of her indoctrination started from birth, shows how far removed you are from reality. Its clear this Muslim family clearly follows a hardline view of Islam like Wahabbism. This has then further been exploited with even more extreme views, where children are susceptible to indoctrination.

So again I ask, are you claiming indoctrination does not exist?
Are you saying we should not even bother to rehabilitate anyone?
Are you saying we should not help children with councilling, when they have been abused?

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:57 pm

"...She had not committed a crime and even the parents were not charged as most of it was material that indoctrinates..."

When we are trying to debate something and get to the bottom of what is really happening and there is someone posting up such complete bullshit... it is extremely difficult to stay in the realms of reality...

Dodge... you have been saying that the girl is not guilty because of the parents being the driving force behind her terrorist and criminal actions...

But now it appears that you are also trying to now say that the parents are also not guilty of anything because they were themselves victims of the influence of others...!!!???

lol!

And so the excuse of being a victim of radicalisation is established...!!!

Unbelievable!!!

Plus you didn't answer the questions...

The police found countless evidence of terrorist supporting activity and material at the home... much of which was actually belonging to this girl who also tried to travel to join ISIS as well as admitting support for them.

If we are to believe that she was not a willing and active participant in this criminal and terrorist activities, but a victim of the incitement of others, specifically being the parents named as the criminal and terrorist wrongdoers in all this... then where are the prosecutions of them for their crimes and terrorist activities!!!???

Plus... what exactly does this 'into care' consist of that she has been reportedly put into...!?

Children in care are allowed to leave the system at 16... so how can 'care' be enforced unless it is really something other than 'care' but really some sort of enforced system of control somewhere!!!???

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:02 pm

They found evidence of them looking to for her to become a jihadi bride.
Out of the material what criminal act did they commit Tommy?
I asked you this last night and you fell apart.
Name the specific crime they committed and would lead to a conviction?
I gave you the link to the new terrorism law here.

You really know little about the law, so if a far right activist had materal on terrorism also fo far right terrorists, would that make him breaking the law?
Look at what material they had?
Did they actually look to commit a terrorist act in this country?
Did they threaten anyone in this country?
Was there a plot?
Were they providing money to a plot or terrorist act?

If looking at material is a crime Tommy, then you would have been arressted ages ago fow what you write on here

So again I ask, are you claiming indoctrination does not exist?
Are you saying we should not even bother to rehabilitate anyone?
Are you saying we should not help children with councilling, when they have been abused?

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:11 pm

we could always give her what she wanted..... a one way ticket to syria....along with her "caring parents"

just a thought.....

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:12 pm

victorismyhero wrote:we could always give her what she wanted..... a one way ticket to syria....along with her "caring parents"

just a thought.....

We could but what if we did that to every child who had been abused Victor?
I believe in helping children.
Sure give the parents a one way ticket, you have my blessing on that, but with the child there is a still a chance to help her.

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:32 pm

problem is didge..

16 is a funny age, i mean i know 16 yo's who i wouldnt trust with a shopping list and also 16yo's who, in terms of thinking ability, reasoning power etc could likely run rings round us if it wasnt for their lack of knowlege and experience....

so ..is THIS particular 16 YO mentally immature or a fully fledged fighting cock? becasue on that hangs the whole question of whether she can be "helped"

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:39 pm

Dodge... you still carry on with your bullshit deflections and false arguments and completely dishonest claims...

The girl and her parents and other family have been conclusively proven to have been involved in criminal and terrorist behaviour as well as possessing a multitude of criminal and terrorist material.

This is established already as irrefutable fact!!!

Please answer the subsequent relevant questions raised about this, as is the subject of the debate, or keep quiet!!!

Nobody is interested in your lying and twisting deflection and waffle!!!

The facts have already been established about their involvement... the court has already established the existence of a multitude of terrorist material And behaviour...

Please stop being a Dick by trying to deny this when it is the fundamental reason for the subsequent court action against the girl...

What we want to know is what type of 'care' is being enforced when children are free to leave 'care' at 16... which is the age of the girl involved... and where are the prosecutions of the parents who the court blamed for all this terrorist activity and involvement and for inciting the girl in all her terrorist behaviour...!!!???

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:41 pm

victorismyhero wrote:problem is didge..

16 is a funny age, i mean i know 16 yo's who i wouldnt trust with a shopping list and also 16yo's who, in terms of thinking ability, reasoning power etc could likely run rings round us if it wasnt for their lack of knowlege and experience....

so ..is THIS particular 16 YO mentally immature or a fully fledged fighting cock? becasue on that hangs the whole question of whether she can be "helped"

But the point is Victor, this is no ordinary teenager, she has clearly from a very early age been indoctrinated with a hardline view of religion.
I had religion drummed into me from a very early age and changed and to me there is no law at present that protects children from being indoctrenated with ideologies from a young. We rely on schools to help counter balance that.
Though we should not just admit defeat and think she is a lost cause, where in fact turning around such a child is instrunmental in tackling the problem of extremism found within Islam. I have no doubt at present her views would be very much extreme to the point of hate, but any child that has been abused with such hate should not be left to rot.
What if this was a child brought up with hateful far right extremism, would we then also leave them out to dry or not try to council them?
It is easy to take a very higly emotive topic of which she has been indoctrinated and see how extremists act in Islam to just wash your hands of them. To me that is self defeating and will achieve very little.

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:45 pm

So tommy just rambled on yet again without producing any crime committed.
Surprise surpirse.

Now if as seen you cannot produce one, then as seen youa re talking nothing but garbage and like I say there is many things I put up that would have been a crime and a link to the new terrorism act, which I guess you read and now want to deflect with worthless posts.

So put up or bow out, its that simple.

So again I ask, are you claiming indoctrination does not exist?
Are you saying we should not even bother to rehabilitate anyone?
Are you saying we should not help children with councilling, when they have been abused?

If you failed to answer this time, I shall just leave you to sulk and just continue my much more enjoyable debate with Victor

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:57 pm

You're the one rambling and ignoring the facts...

And not answering the relevant questions!!!

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You're the one rambling and ignoring the facts...

And not answering the relevant questions!!!

So again no answer, you had your last chance Tommy.

by eddie Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:09 pm

I haven't read everyone's views and have been logged on but away for a few days, but I will say this; sixteen year olds are not fully mature nor emotionally mature enough to make reasoned and seasoned judgements.
That's not an excuse, but a fact.

Sixteen year olds can believe something one day and something else the next.

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:13 pm

eddie wrote:I haven't read everyone's views and have been logged on but away for a few days, but I will say this; sixteen year olds are not fully mature nor emotionally mature enough to make reasoned and seasoned judgements.
That's not an excuse, but a fact.

Sixteen year olds can believe something one day and something else the next.

Agreed and it would be even more difficult if they have been brainwashed from early life with such a hardline view, she would hardly know any better when the people meant to raise her have filled her head with hate.
Its child abuse and she needs help and councilling.

by eddie Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:15 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
eddie wrote:I haven't read everyone's views and have been logged on but away for a few days, but I will say this; sixteen year olds are not fully mature nor emotionally mature enough to make reasoned and seasoned judgements.
That's not an excuse, but a fact.

Sixteen year olds can believe something one day and something else the next.

Agreed and it would be even more difficult if they have been brainwashed from early life with such a hardline view, she would hardly know any better when the people meant to raise her have filled her head with hate.
Its child abuse and she needs help and councilling.

I think that's the first step and and then, obviously, if she carries on with the "bad" behaviour after getting help then the situation needs reassessing.

She's 16, give her a chance.

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:32 pm

So the parents are going to be prosecuted for this then...!!!???

And what sort of 'care' is this when supposedly being enforced but where 16 year olds are free to leave the care system if they choose...???

Is it really 'being in care' or enforced detention of some kind, or not really anything at all...!?

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:36 pm

eddie wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Agreed and it would be even more difficult if they have been brainwashed from early life with such a hardline view, she would hardly know any better when the people meant to raise her have filled her head with hate.
Its child abuse and she needs help and councilling.

I think that's the first step and and then, obviously, if she carries on with the "bad" behaviour after getting help then the situation needs reassessing.

She's 16, give her a chance.

Its a long road to recovery after so many years of such hate Eddie I guess.
I would say the same for any person that has been indoctrinated by a cult and what she has been taught is nothing more than a cult.
We help many who have been brainwashed by cults and you see this far more in the states, so what do you then do where that cult only has meaning in the country you are in and wants to destroy that country? Where would you send that child, when their home is that country?
People are just allowing the ongoing problem with islamic extremism to blind themselves to reason. If this was some girl indoctrinated with another extremist cult ideology in this country, would they all so readily abandon her?
I doubt it and agree with you she needs to be given a chance, with plenty of help and support.

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:41 pm

"...Sixteen year olds can believe something one day and something else the next..."

Yeah... ok... one day jihad, beheadings, bomb making, ISIS is great etc... the next day they want to be skipping over rainbows on a unicorn made of fairy dust...!!!

lol!

And it was all someone else's fault... but those who have been blamed are also not at fault because they can also now argue that they themselves were also victims and how it was actually someone else's fault... etc,etc, etc... terrorists are now victims in the twisted world of dodge...

by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:42 pm

Oh dear, it seems Tommy has switched to clown mode, so on that note, I bid you all a fond farewell and to all my new fans also on twitter, even though I do not use twitter lol.... Laughing

Night everyone

by eddie Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:"...Sixteen year olds can believe something one day and something else the next..."

Yeah... ok... one day jihad, beheadings, bomb making, ISIS is great etc... the next day they want to be skipping over rainbows on a unicorn made of fairy dust...!!!

And it was all someone else's fault... but those who have been blamed are also not at fault because they can also now argue that they themselves were also victims and how it was actually someone else's fault... etc,etc, etc... terrorists are now victims in the twisted world of dodge...

Well I've BEEN 16, I know a lot of sixteen year olds and teens and I KNOW that they dint remain the same at 16 until old age or even their twenties

Tommy, you have no real understanding of teens - they are the among the most vulnerable of our societies.

by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So the parents are going to be prosecuted for this then...!!!???

And what sort of 'care' is this when supposedly being enforced but where 16 year olds are free to leave the care system if they choose...???

Is it really 'being in care' or enforced detention of some kind, or not really anything at all...!?

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:30 pm

Okay something is clearly not right in this story as to why the parents were not charged when I have just read a similar crime?

There is little difference here accept the parents clearly did indoctrainte the child with info with the intent of her becomning a jihadi bride.. The judge has made the correct decision to help the girl but wrong in doing nothing to the parents.

Here is the other story:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenage-schoolgirl-pleads-guilty-to-terror-charges-after-police-find-dead-child-images-and-isis-propaganda-on-her-phone-10472716.html

To me there is a clear difference of how the law is being appllied.
So it seems I stand corrected in regards to viewing such images is clearly breaking the law, which I am sure Tommy will have a field day over lol.

I still feel in both cases they need help and councilling mind.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:33 pm

So dodge now admits the truth that they are terrorists and criminals...

They can get plenty of 'help' while serving prison sentences for their crimes as well as that imprisonment meaning the public are safe from them.

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:41 pm

Wrong again, they require help being so young where their crime is so subjective, you could get also arrested for terrorism if you viewed extreme material from the far right.
They are certainly not terrorists, criminals maybe, terrorist sympathizors maybe, but not terrorist, ones easily influence espcially the first one.
I bet you the second one will also not face jai time and rightly so when she needs help.
I am also not convinced here in regards to which is right in regards to the law but was being polite that I might well be wrong.
See its not hard Tommy I am more than happy to admit I could be mistaken on the law but not a monster like you willing to put away two children from being easily led and indoctrinated. That is why people with your views will never be a leading advice to combating extremism, you would just further create far more problems.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:57 pm

The law...

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/violent_extremism.html

https://www.gov.uk/age-of-criminal-responsibility

The dodgy arguments...

"...they require help being so young where their crime is so subjective..."

"...They are certainly not terrorists, criminals maybe, terrorist sympathizors maybe, but not terrorist..."

"...I could be mistaken on the law but not a monster like you willing to put away two children from being easily led and indoctrinated..."

lol!

Even after you have finally admitted that they have committed criminal acts of terrorism...!!!???

You are beyond a joke with your bullshit, dodge!!!

lol!

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:02 pm

There is nothing dodgy, I gave you the link to the law which is based on viewing material, which as seen can now make any person possible found guilty for viewing such material which you seem to fail to grasp.
Are each of them a threat, which is what you need to prove, of whch there is no intent that they were where again you still failed to answer throughout whether you do not believen people cannot be indoctrinated.
I am glad our courts do not listen to people like you Tommy and use judgements when it comes to children indoctrinated
Again I am open to that I might be wrong but two cases with different outcomes, means its very much open Tommy.
As see throughout this debate you avoided every single point made and where I can admit I might be mistaken on the law aspect you turn once again into clown mode Tommy.

So I am at ease Tommy as happy to run rings around you on this where you want to send children away for viewing extreme material online.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:21 pm

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/violent_extremism.html

https://www.gov.uk/age-of-criminal-responsibility

by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:24 pm

The decision on the children was correct. The parents should have been charged and stood trial.

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:24 pm

Yes Tommy we can all read, but you have not factored indoctrination and from a very early age in espcially one of these cases.
So best you try again, as like with the first case the judge is not going to send a child to jail for viewing extremist material online.

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:25 pm

Irn Bru wrote:The decision on the children was correct. The parents should have been charged and stood trial.

Correct and for child abuse also

by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:28 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:The decision on the children was correct. The parents should have been charged and stood trial.

Correct and for child abuse also

It was a form of child abuse - the law states that to be the case.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:32 pm

And where is the prosecution of the guilty parents...!!!???

Plus don't forget this girl admitted wanting to John ISIS and was removed from a flight out there to loin them... she also had a huge stash of terrorist material including bomb making instructions and had actively searched out many other terrorist material and information...

She was a terrorist who was caught BEFORE actually committing carnage... but intent was undeniable... if left alone she would have continued to try to commit an atrocity.

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:45 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Correct and for child abuse also

It was a form of child abuse - the law states that to be the case.

Agreed, and am very disappointed the Judge has not taken the chance to charge them with child abuse

by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And where is the prosecution of the guilty parents...!!!???

Plus don't forget this girl admitted wanting to John ISIS and was removed from a flight out there to loin them... she also had a huge stash of terrorist material including bomb making instructions and had actively searched out many other terrorist material and information...

She was a terrorist who was caught BEFORE actually committing carnage... but intent was undeniable... if left alone she would have continued to try to commit an atrocity.

She's just another indocrinated kid Tommy. I'm sure the authorities will work with her to get a better result than locking her up causing even more resentment.

It was the correct decision.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:03 pm

Isn't enforced 'care' exactly just a form of 'locking up'...!?

And prosecution of the parents...!?

Seems everyone involved in this terrorist activities has got away without punishment but also being given e.up

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:10 pm

So clueless and when she comes out in 6 months Tommy has resolved zero.
She will go into jail where many other radiclaized Muslims are ensuring she does not change

Bravo Tommy

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:21 pm

So now the argument is to not send her to jail because it is full of other terrorist Muslims....!?

lol!

by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:41 pm

Yes there is many radicals in jail Tommy, you can thank our Police for a job well done
So well done now you are starting to learn and sending her into prison is not going to help her

by Irn Bru Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:17 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So now the argument is to not send her to jail because it is full of other terrorist Muslims....!?

The girl wouldn't go to prison anyway, she would go to a Young people (juvenile offenders) institution which are designed to help young people. You can read up on what that involves here.....

https://www.justice.gov.uk/offenders/types-of-offender/juveniles

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:32 pm

I know Irn... I'm just pointing out dodgey arguments from the dodgey waffler on here!

lol!

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