Taking drugs is a human right, say MPs and peers

Drug users have a human right to feed their habit, MPs and peers have said, as they claimed international conventions banning drugs need to be reformed. The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Drug Policy Reform said in a new report that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights – the rights to “private and family life” – could be deployed by drug users who face prosecution.
Regulation of banned substances “needs to reflect the supremacy of human rights conventions”, the report said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11810347/Taking-drugs-is-a-human-right-say-MPs-and-peers.html



100% agree, its absurd we criminalize some drugs when both alcohol and tobacco end up causing countless medical problems each year. People have a right to do so. It should be taxed high as it is a luxery but the reasons to ban some drugs is utterly absurd. To me it would also go a long way to make drugs safer and helping tackle a massive area of crime.

100% agree too
i would say the same reasons as you, Plus (probably more relevant outside of Europe) there is a lot of traditional 'drugs' that were used for cultural/spiritual purposes and recreation. A really good example is Kava when made potent it will really mess up a European decent person but it's effect is similar to mid strength alcohol on pacific islanders (and it is some what reversed with alcohol but they are getting more exposure to it than us to Kava)

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/02/18/islanders-shocked-australia-moves-ban-kava

A few snorts of cocaine before breakfast, and a bit of heroin after dinner then?

No problem, as long as people don't start claiming they're "disabled" because they're hooked on drugs.

Raggamuffin wrote:A few snorts of cocaine before breakfast, and a bit of heroin after dinner then?

No problem, as long as people don't start claiming they're "disabled" because they're hooked on drugs.

Lol in a nutshell

I wouldn't say you have the right to do any drug whatsoever -- a theoretical drug that had a significant chance of making someone violent should be banned, imo. There have been legal drugs that do that, too, like the smoking-cessation drug Chantix:

In light of the meeting tomorrow, last month we reassessed selected Chantix adverse event data collected since drug approval 7 years ago, using as endpoints thoughts of suicide, self-injury, or homicide. These new data show that Chantix continues to account for more cases of suicidal, self-injurious, or homicidal thoughts than any other therapeutic drug from 2007 through 2013 — more than 3 times as many as the second-ranked drug. Chantix stands out even more prominently in the subset of homicidal ideation, with a 5-fold margin over the second-ranked drug, Seroquel. In addition to these risks, Chantix is also associated with sudden blackouts, seizures, and impaired vision.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/Chantix-varenicline-thoughts-of-suicideself-injury-and-homicide.html

Raggamuffin wrote:A few snorts of cocaine before breakfast, and a bit of heroin after dinner then?

No problem, as long as people don't start claiming they're "disabled" because they're hooked on drugs.

Actually Heroin would be much safer if legalised

http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/12reason.htm

Well, at least Osborne could get his supply of coke legally then

Raggamuffin wrote:A few snorts of cocaine before breakfast, and a bit of heroin after dinner then?

No problem, as long as people don't start claiming they're "disabled" because they're hooked on drugs.

so you agree too

is it any different than people that claim it because they are alcoholics (Can you? )

And it would actually reduce it because now it can be treated as a medical issue instead of legal issue. and assuming you did the sensible thing of linking payments to treatment it would be a non issue

Why should we hand control of the drugs industry to the criminals to make a fortune and who peddle fake stuff that kills people?

Legalising it and bringing it under control of the state is the sensible thing to do.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:A few snorts of cocaine before breakfast, and a bit of heroin after dinner then?

No problem, as long as people don't start claiming they're "disabled" because they're hooked on drugs.

so you agree too

is it any different than people that claim it because they are alcoholics (Can you? )

And it would actually reduce it because now it can be treated as a medical issue instead of legal issue. and assuming you did the sensible thing of linking payments to treatment it would be a non issue

People can already claim benefits for being addicted to drugs as long as they say it has affected them medically. They can claim benefits at the drop of a hat these days, despite the attempts to cut down on that.

How addictive is heroin compared to alcohol? If people were allowed to use heroin legally, the country would be bankrupt. It's not a medical issue, it's a stupidity issue. At least at the moment it's not that easy to get, and the cost is high, but if it was legal that would all change.

Irn Bru wrote:Why should we hand control of the drugs industry to the criminals to make a fortune and who peddle fake stuff that kills people?

Legalising it and bringing it under control of the state is the sensible thing to do.

Oh right. So who would profit from the sale of the drugs then? Would the Government set up little shops where people can buy the stuff?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Why should we hand control of the drugs industry to the criminals to make a fortune and who peddle fake stuff that kills people?

Legalising it and bringing it under control of the state is the sensible thing to do.

Oh right. So who would profit from the sale of the drugs then? Would the Government set up little shops where people can buy the stuff?

We already do profit from the sale of drugs in shops, they are called tobacco and alcohol.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh right. So who would profit from the sale of the drugs then? Would the Government set up little shops where people can buy the stuff?

We already do profit from the sale of drugs in shops, they are called tobacco and alcohol.

So you want to introduce more legal addictive substances? Any money made would be down the drain with claims of "disability".

There is a lot to be said for de criminalising drug use. A hell of a lot of crime is drug related. But then a hell of a lot is alcohol related. When you think of all he crimes around the dug industry from pirate DVDs to people trafficking any thing that combats that has to be a positive thing.

Nems wrote:There is a lot to be said for de criminalising drug use. A hell of a lot of crime is drug related. But then a hell of a lot is alcohol related. When you think of all he crimes around the dug industry from pirate DVDs to people trafficking any thing that combats that has to be a positive thing.

So it should be legalised in order to stop people committing crimes in order to get money for drugs? Why not just prosecute the people committing the crimes?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

We already do profit from the sale of drugs in shops, they are called tobacco and alcohol.

So you want to introduce more legal addictive substances? Any money made would be down the drain with claims of "disability".

You make a very speculative claim onto something you based no actual amount of money this may cost.
Yes I believe that not only decrimanlizing drugs would go a long way to reducing crime but to legalizing many. The war on drugs has been going on for decades and it has been an utter failure and it has ended up filling up prisons. You need to factor in how much this would actually reduce in costs with those imprisoned, let alone trials and Police time wasted. All this money adds up so to go off a very small amount of people that might end up being paid disability is a non-starter argument. The fact is its up to people what pleasures they want to use and to me you will have manufactured drugs that are far more safer where they have to be to be placed on the market. At the end of the day Prohibition if you know its history shows the complete futility on the ban on drugs. It in fact vastly increased criminality, where in fact money can be made and used to help further fund the NHS.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:There is a lot to be said for de criminalising drug use. A hell of a lot of crime is drug related. But then a hell of a lot is alcohol related. When you think of all he crimes around the dug industry from pirate DVDs to people trafficking any thing that combats that has to be a positive thing.

So it should be legalised in order to stop people committing crimes in order to get money for drugs? Why not just prosecute the people committing the crimes?

Because most of the time the police cant catch them. The CPS wont prosecute them and the court doesn't punish them.

I can't believe people want to legalise more harmful substances. Aren't there already enough of them around?

Will those same people then moan that there are cuts to services because of all the money spent on getting people off these drugs? Of course they will.

If they stopped treating drug users as victims and treated them as criminals instead, maybe some people might not use them. So many people love to be a "victim" these days.

Raggamuffin wrote:I can't believe people want to legalise more harmful substances. Aren't there already enough of them around?

Will those same people then moan that there are cuts to services because of all the money spent on getting people off these drugs? Of course they will.

For simple reasons, people are going to obtain them anyway, so what you continue to do is fuel the criminal industry, which is the point you are missing. Again you make a poor case based off a claim to money being used to get people off drugs and off no case on how much more would be made on tax with drugs.

Raggamuffin wrote:If they stopped treating drug users as victims and treated them as criminals instead, maybe some people might not use them. So many people love to be a "victim" these days.

Which shows you have no comprehension of addiction.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If they stopped treating drug users as victims and treated them as criminals instead, maybe some people might not use them. So many people love to be a "victim" these days.

Which shows you have no comprehension of addiction.

Well they shouldn't have taken it in the first place. There are enough warnings about the dangers around. They weren't "victims" the first time they took an illegal drug were they?

Bollox to this namby pamby attitude. It's absurd that people want to legalise something in order to stop people committing crimes or so that people can become "victims" and claim benefits because they're off their heads on drugs.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Which shows you have no comprehension of addiction.

Well they shouldn't have taken it in the first place. There are enough warnings about the dangers around. They weren't "victims" the first time they took an illegal drug were they?

Bollox to this namby pamby attitude. It's absurd that people want to legalise something in order to stop people committing crimes or so that people can become "victims" and claim benefits because they're off their heads on drugs.

Absurd reasoning, as people smoke and drink, where do you want to draw the line?
Do you want to stop medically treating people because they drink and smoke now, both also being drugs that people chose to use and also become addicted to. You have your opinion which is one that has failed for decades and why we continue to have over crowding in prisons and wasting Police time dealing with drug crime, all of which would free up Police. Again you are not looking at this from a practically point of view but an emotive view point

Even before people start taking these drugs, they're treated as potential victims. The warnings revolve around health issues, but if they were warned that taking these drugs would result in a conviction and a criminal record, they might think twice.

I can never understand why everyone blames the dealers without blaming the users as well. If there were no users, there would be no dealers.

Cuchulain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well they shouldn't have taken it in the first place. There are enough warnings about the dangers around. They weren't "victims" the first time they took an illegal drug were they?

Bollox to this namby pamby attitude. It's absurd that people want to legalise something in order to stop people committing crimes or so that people can become "victims" and claim benefits because they're off their heads on drugs.

Absurd reasoning, as people smoke and drink, where do you want to draw the line?
Do you want to stop medically treating people because they drink and smoke now, both also being drugs that people chose to use and also become addicted to. You have your opinion which is one that has failed for decades and why we continue to have over crowding in prisons and wasting Police time dealing with drug crime, all of which would free up Police. Again you are not looking at this from a practically point of view but an emotive view point

Yes, I probably am, because I'm sick to death of all the excuses and the "victim" status of people who can't control themselves or use any common sense. People know that stuff like heroin is harmful, so why the fuck would anyone want to see it legalised?

I'm out of this thread because I can't stand the stupid posts of others.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Absurd reasoning, as people smoke and drink, where do you want to draw the line?
Do you want to stop medically treating people because they drink and smoke now, both also being drugs that people chose to use and also become addicted to. You have your opinion which is one that has failed for decades and why we continue to have over crowding in prisons and wasting Police time dealing with drug crime, all of which would free up Police. Again you are not looking at this from a practically point of view but an emotive view point

Yes, I probably am, because I'm sick to death of all the excuses and the "victim" status of people who can't control themselves or use any common sense. People know that stuff like heroin is harmful, so why the fuck would anyone want to see it legalised?

I'm out of this thread because I can't stand the stupid posts of others.

Which shows you want to continue the problem.
That is not solving anything as again people will seek to use drugs. Whether you disagree with that is not going to change the fact there is always going to be a demand, even more so the more society is becoming stressed. People turn to things to relieve stress and anxiety, even if this may not be the right thing to do all you are doing is wanting to keep prisons overcrowded, wasting Police time and resources and courts time and billions of money by this. That is not being practical and thinking how best to deal with a situation

Tobacco is legal and the government make loads of money on that, then they peddle their alternatives and spend huge amounts of money on advertising to stop people smoking!
I smell a money-spinner actually.

Somehow, someway, this is all about the government making money.

eddie wrote:Tobacco is legal and the government make loads of money on that, then they peddle their alternatives and spend huge amounts of money on advertising to stop people smoking!
I smell a money-spinner actually.

Somehow, someway, this is all about the government making money.

They do make loads because it is vastly taxed, but they would rather have people stop smoking and hence will for health reasons activelly spend money to assist doing so. What would be poor is if they placed high tax on e-cigs.

Cuchulain wrote:

eddie wrote:Tobacco is legal and the government make loads of money on that, then they peddle their alternatives and spend huge amounts of money on advertising to stop people smoking!
I smell a money-spinner actually.

Somehow, someway, this is all about the government making money.

They do make loads because it is vastly taxed, but they would rather have people stop smoking and hence will for health reasons activelly spend money to assist doing so. What would be poor is if they placed high tax on e-cigs.

Well e-cigs are new and let's face it, very probably going to end up as dangerous to inhale as tobacco.
And they will tax e-cigs soon.
It all about the money; always is.

And if they made tobacco cigarettes with less shit in them, they'd be safer to smoke!

Oh and let's face it, if supermarkets didn't sell cheaper booze and we went back to only be able to but booze up until off-licenses closed, we'd possibly have less of a problem!

But it's all about the greedy government making money and not giving the slightest shit about people's health.

eddie wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

They do make loads because it is vastly taxed, but they would rather have people stop smoking and hence will for health reasons activelly spend money to assist doing so. What would be poor is if they placed high tax on e-cigs.

Well e-cigs are new and let's face it, very probably going to end up as dangerous to inhale as tobacco.
And they will tax e-cigs soon.
It all about the money; always is.

And if they made tobacco cigarettes with less shit in them, they'd be safer to smoke!

Oh and let's face it, if supermarkets didn't sell cheaper booze and we went back to only be able to but booze up until off-licenses closed, we'd possibly have less of a problem!

But it's all about the greedy government making money and not giving the slightest shit about people's health.

Not sure you can make tobacco less safe to smoke Eddie.
If you look at the history of boose we used to have before the first world war 24 hrs anyway with less problems and the fact is people are less and less going to pubs etc and more staying in with friends having a drink.
I fail to see how making use of these products that go a long way to help funding the NHS is being greedy in any capacity

Pure medicinal heroin is physically quite harmless and can be used for 40 years or so with no physical damage whatsoever.


Drinking isn't itself a problem... drinking too much causes the problems, both physically and socially... and people often do drink too much when they get an opportunity to have a night out because most of the time we are worked like dogs all week and don't really get any chance to drink much during the week because of this heavy work load lifestyle most of us lead now.


Some other 'drugs' out there are less harmful than many prescription drugs and even less harmful than asprin!


It is A multi layered subject with many valid arguments on all sides.

Good post Tommy and quite well-balanced.

Thank you Eddie, just skimming the surface really...


All drugs have different arguments attached to them.


Many drugs are judged by the stereotype attached to them by the image/behaviour of what people perceive as the typical user...


Heroin is A particularly misunderstood example... think heroin user and we automatically think of a particular image... skinny white male, aged 20-35, scruffy, dodgy teeth, shoplifter, burglar, maybe homeless, and drinking skol super or that white ace cider etc...


While there is no doubt that many are exactly like this... huge numbers of others are not... just think about some of the known 'celeb' users out there... plus there are large numbers of other seemingly well to do users, working, earning good money, able to use it and hold down their jobs etc... while the poorer users are often driven to the petty crime/theft and burglary etc to fund the addiction as well as letting general diet and personal hygiene slip because spending most of what little other money they get on addiction.


The ones who can afford their habit generally go unnoticed While the ones who can't and turn to crime to fund their habit and inflict misery on untold others who suffer the impact of the loss or theft or burglary etc or higher prices in shops to compensate for the losses in shoplifting etc... some may have to be stealing up to £300 worth of stuff a day to sell on for £100 to get their daily shots... when the same amount of heroin could be provided at medicinal quality to them for a total cost of about £1 a day to NHS/govt/taxpayer!!!


Then when you consider the additional costs to us already through policing and legal system etc, legal aid, court, prison, probation services etc etc...


As well as the poor bastards themselves who are driven to this scum shit life style and addiction etc... life for them becomes so shit that they need the drugs even more to get an escape from the reality of what they do... a vicious circle, a downward spiral and a near impossible cycle to break.


When pure medicinal heroin is physically harmless and can be provided for a minute cost, it surprises me that we continue to allow people to suffer such pitiful existences in their struggle to feed their addictions and especially when it also has enormous costs and negative impacts on all the rest of us!!!


Also surely the police would be better used if not having to deal with so many crime driven heroin addicts too!?

Well I sort of get where you're coming from with the money aspect - the richer people "get away" with it.
But ultimately, heroin will turn any successful person into the first stereotype you mentioned, except the part about being homeless and crime, possibly.

No rich, successful person will stay rich and successful if they're addicted to heroin.
It rots you, from the inside out.

Not true... pure medicinal heroin is physically harmless... street shit is cut to fuck and it is the shit they mix it with that causes physical damage... plus a poor user will also deteriorate physically by not eating properly because all their money is spent on The expensive street stuff...

Tommy Monk wrote:
Not true... pure medicinal heroin is physically harmless... street shit is cut to fuck and it is the shit they mix it with that causes physical damage... plus a poor user will also deteriorate physically by not eating properly because all their money is spent on The expensive street stuff...

Drugs fuck up your appetite regardless of wealth. So that's irrelevant imo


I agree with rags to a degree; you can't have everyone Go round high as a kite or as chilled out as a vegetable.
What is that ever going Io achieve?

eddie wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
Not true... pure medicinal heroin is physically harmless... street shit is cut to fuck and it is the shit they mix it with that causes physical damage... plus a poor user will also deteriorate physically by not eating properly because all their money is spent on The expensive street stuff...

Drugs fuck up your appetite regardless of wealth. So that's irrelevant imo


I agree with rags to a degree; you can't have everyone Go round  high as a kite or as chilled out as a vegetable.
What is that ever going Io achieve?

Sorry Eddie that is poor reasoning as if everyone is by making it legal all turn to drugs.
People turn to drugs because they are introduced to them and need them to combat how they feel.
It matters not if they are then legal or not, its not going to make more then go and take drugs. In fact it is the allure of illegal substances more than anything that dares people to try them. When tried and liked, it can lead to further use and addiction. When that lure is gone as seen in countries where it is deligitimized there has been no increase in drug use but an actual decrease.
So that tells you plenty about the need of drugs and how people come to use them.
Just think of the waste of time it is over whether already people want to use drugs when they are always going to have access to them? By making them wrong, people want things that are wrong.

Go figure

Just to throw out a few factoids and thoughts:

* Almost 1 in 10 Americans over the age of 12 used illicit drugs recently

* Nearly 18 million Americans live in a jurisdiction where marijuana is legal

* In the first year of legalization in Colorado, the industry brought 16,000 new jobs to the state, the crime rate dropped and traffic fatalities dropped

In the U.S., it's legal to bungee jump, parachute out of a plane, race cars at nearly 200 mph for a living, hunt bears, etc. The vast, vast majority of people still don't do those things because they're dangerous! Likewise, most people would not rush out to use a dangerous drug simply because it became legal.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to throw out a few factoids and thoughts:

* Almost 1 in 10 Americans over the age of 12 used illicit drugs recently

* Nearly 18 million Americans live in a jurisdiction where marijuana is legal

* In the first year of legalization in Colorado, the industry brought 16,000 new jobs to the state, the crime rate dropped and traffic fatalities dropped

In the U.S., it's legal to bungee jump, parachute out of a plane, race cars at nearly 200 mph for a living, hunt bears, etc. The vast, vast majority of people still don't do those things because they're dangerous! Likewise, most people would not rush out to use a dangerous drug simply because it became legal.

Top draw point made.

Heads up, that is normally a game of snooker comment for a fabulous shot, when they say top draw.

Cuchulain wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to throw out a few factoids and thoughts:

* Almost 1 in 10 Americans over the age of 12 used illicit drugs recently

* Nearly 18 million Americans live in a jurisdiction where marijuana is legal

* In the first year of legalization in Colorado, the industry brought 16,000 new jobs to the state, the crime rate dropped and traffic fatalities dropped

In the U.S., it's legal to bungee jump, parachute out of a plane, race cars at nearly 200 mph for a living, hunt bears, etc. The vast, vast majority of people still don't do those things because they're dangerous! Likewise, most people would not rush out to use a dangerous drug simply because it became legal.

Top draw point made.

Heads up, that is normally a game of snooker comment for a fabulous shot, when they say top draw.

Thanks, and I did need that explanation

A poor person who spends all their money on drugs won't eat... a better off person will make sure they eat well even though they may do some drugs... some will even make sure their diet is even more healthy because they do a bit of this and that...



The poorer person ends up looking more fucked mainly because of the poor diet.


The fact remains that pure medicinal heroin does no physical damage and would cost about £1 A day to provide to a heavy addict who may be stealing £300 a day to change into £100 cash to buy their daily shots.


Have you ever seen some of the pictures out there of the damage that can be done to users arms and legs from the mixed up street shit they get?


I'm not trying to stick up for junkies or heroin by the way... I think it's all rank!!!


It's just that I have seen a couple of people end up in real trouble because of it... know of couple of people who have died too... one who got blood poisoning in a leg from dodgy injection... had to be amputated to save his life... then it was discovered it had already spread to other leg... so that had to come off too... then was found to have spread further and killed him!!!



Is pretty fucked up when other people get prescription opiates on demand...

Tommy, do you realise something?
When you argue in the positive you speak sense, like here with drugs. Your arguments are born from understanding and experiencing,which is  not knocking yourself. That allows the forum to see the positive side of you.

I like the positive Tommy, that is enjoyable to watch, but sadly I see the negative Tommy daily, the one that is selfish. Think about this Tommy, you clearly have experienced life on the streets, which I doubt any here would have any real comprehension of. I have had a little experince, which is another story but nothing like you suffered when you did. That actually thinks there is actually much good in you Tommy and that sadly factors have played a major part in how you have formed your views today.

I have you in a different light today based on your and I will make this point loud......your positive side arguments. Try using them and believing in yourself and you will find further confidence.

I actually now understand your anger and it all stems from your time on the streets. Sorry Tommy, nobody deserves anything bad or wrong to go in their life. I guess being on the streets as you said before when you were busking was very rough.

I reckon once you were very confident, before all that crap happened and believe you can be that person again, you just have to believe.

All the best Tommy and not piss taking either

the problem with drugs is separating the myth and proper-gander, from the facts

Tommy Monk wrote:A poor person who spends all their money on drugs won't eat... a better off person will make sure they eat well even though they may do some drugs... some will even make sure their diet is even more healthy because they do a bit of this and that...



The poorer person ends up looking more fucked mainly because of the  poor diet.


The fact remains that pure medicinal heroin does no physical damage and would cost about £1 A day to provide to a heavy addict who may be stealing £300 a day to change into £100 cash to buy their daily shots.


Have you ever seen some of the pictures out there of the damage that can be done to users arms and legs from the mixed up street shit they get?


I'm not trying to stick up for junkies or heroin by the way... I think it's all rank!!!


It's just that I have seen a couple of people end up in real trouble because of it... know of couple of people who have died too... one who got blood poisoning in a leg from dodgy injection... had to be amputated to save his life... then it was discovered it had already spread to other leg... so that had to come off too... then was found to have spread further and killed him!!!



Is pretty fucked up when other people get prescription opiates on demand...

what can i say ......................where`s Tommy and what did you do with the body

Me on The streets!!!???






I've never been homeless or on The streets dodge!!!

It was not a dig Tommy, it sounded like you spoke from experince

I do speak from experience dodge... experience of others!!!

Anyway, back to the drugs topic... I've lightly skimmed over one particular drug... others have different. arguments attached to them too...


Let's take mushrooms for another example... why is it that it is now illegal for someone to be walking about and to eat a couple of mushrooms they have come across growing quite naturally in The wilds, only if they are a particular kind of wild natural mushroom that will do the person absolutely no physical damage whatsoever...!?

Lol I've seen this side of Tommy since day one!

I don't agree with some of his posts but i've never thought him horrible and stupid like other's do.

He speaks eloquently (mostly) and always has a proper point of view that's not stupid c&p's.

I think he's a good poster, whether you agree with his posts or not.


And he's got a bloody good curry recipe!

Tommy Monk wrote:Anyway, back to the drugs topic... I've lightly skimmed over one particular drug... others have different. arguments attached to them too...


Let's take mushrooms for another example... why is it that it is now illegal for someone to be walking about and to eat a couple of mushrooms they have come across growing quite naturally in The wilds, only if they are a particular kind of wild natural mushroom that will do the person absolutely no physical damage whatsoever...!?

pretty sure that`s not illegal ,what however is illegal is the processing of thous mushrooms ,drying out or preperation in any way ...or that is my understanding