Romanians Arrested At Seven Times The Rate Of British

13th December 2013

Romanians are being arrested in London at seven times the rate of Britons, it was revealed yesterday.


Around 800 people from the Eastern European state were arrested in the capital last month, according to official figures.


Many of them are linked to a wave of cashpoint fraud which cost an estimated £40million in the first six months of this year alone.

Police say that for every 1,000 Romanians in London, 183 are arrested. This compares to 26 Britons per 1,000.

Police chiefs have been told to investigate the reasons behind the hugely disproportionate figures.


They are concerned that they could rise even higher when restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarians living in Britain are lifted on January 1.


The Government is preparing for a ‘comprehensive’ review of how foreign national offenders are treated in the criminal justice system.


There are concerns that gaps in cross-border intelligence checks are allowing prolific and dangerous offenders to slip through the net.


The latest figures emerged at a summit about the threat posed by foreign criminals held at City Hall, in Central London.

Shocking? Please discuss.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522888/Romanians-arrested-seven-times-rate-Britons-London.html#ixzz2nLUmMVnX

Of which could be the same individuals.

So really the title could be, the same people are 7 more times likely to be arrested than their British counter parts.

Also arrests does not even mean Guilty.

Non-Story and typical of the Mail to be honest

The Mail? What has the newspaper got to do with it didge?

Surely you read the quotes from the meeting - newspapers just print the news, they rarely make things up.

That has to be the most naive statement I've heard for a while lol

The Daily Mail - the paper that has to print more retractions than any other.

Sassy wrote:That has to be the most naive statement I've heard for a while lol

Please point us to the naïve statement sassy.

Only you would need it pointed out Andy lol

BigAndy9 wrote:The Mail?  What has the newspaper got to do with it didge?

Surely you read the quotes from the meeting - newspapers just print the news, they rarely make things up.

Newspapers are very apt at twisting stories, would you like me to show you many examples Andy?

All are guilty of this, in this case it is the Mail.

So do we have any details here if it is the same criminal gang being picked up day after day, does it state any of that?

Thank you sassy.

Retractions? Headline grabbers?

But who is taken in by these - chavs and fools.

Such as yourself and didge it seems. Immediately you scream because of the headline and it's the Mail.

But read the article and it should be the meeting and the figures you are interested in, not who reported it.

BigAndy9 wrote:Thank you sassy.

Retractions?  Headline grabbers?

But who is taken in by these - chavs and fools.

Such as yourself and didge it seems.  Immediately you scream because of the headline and it's the Mail.

But read the article and it should be the meeting and the figures you are interested in, not who reported it.

What?   I never take any notice of anything in the Daily Mail.   And it seems you are the one taken in by the headline, as Didge has pointed out.

And its incorrect facts the Mail normally has to retract.

Its called common sense Andy, please have a read from a previous rebuttal to this:





"BRITAIN has been hit by a ­Romanian crimewave with the equivalent of 15 arrests a day by one police force alone." The Express, February 27, 2013
"That is the equivalent of 15 Romanians being held by the police every day. There are only estimated to be 68,000 living in the UK. It puts Romania second only to Poland in the list of countries with the most citizens arrested in London – but there are around half a million Poles in Britain." The Daily Mail. February 27, 2013

With the looming changes to the rights of Romanians and Bulgarians to live and work in the UK proving to be a hot topic of conversation in Westminster and the media, several papers this week claimed that their arrival on these shores could bring with it a concurrent spike in crime.
According to the Express and the Mail, Romania has the dubious distinction of being second on the list of oversees countries in terms of the number of criminal suspects arrested by the police on the streets of our capital. So is this the case?
Regular readers might remember that we took a look at the number of foreign prisoners populating our jails late last year, and found that Romania came fourth on that particular list behind Jamaica, the Republic of Ireland and Poland. However this weeks' claims rest on arrest data that was released by the Metropolitan Police via a Freedom of Information (FoI) request.
Immediately, we need to add a caveat that seems to have been missed by some of the papers: the data published relates to numbers of arrests and not number of arrested individuals. Strictly speaking therefore, it is not the equivalent of 15 Romanians who are arrested every day, but the equivalent of 15 arrests of Romanian citizens.
Both the Express and the Mail also note that the figure is particularly shocking given that just 68,000 ­Romanians reside in the country at present. Poland - the only country to top Romania on the list - by contrast has over half a million (546,000) citizens living in the UK, while there were 35,000 arrests made of Polish nationals.
However is figure of 68,000 doesn't quite tell the whole story: it comes from the 2011 Census and refers to the number of UK residents whose first language is Romanian. Interestingly, Eurostat presents different figures. According to the European Union's statistical arm, there were 94,000 Romanian residents in the UK in 2012.
There is some confusion over whether these figures relate to arrests carried out in London or across the whole country. Both papers seem to suggest that these are London arrests, however the Met's disclosure log presents is as data on the "Number of foreign nationals arrested in the UK over the past 5 years".
We are chasing this up with the Met Police and will update as soon as possible.
Overall, the figures reported by the Daily Mail and the Express are correct: Romania does seem to find a particularly large proportion of their citizens in the UK arrested by the Met police.
It's worth pointing out that there are still some question marks about the figures presented in this Freedom of Information response. For example, the Met notes that in the past five years they carried out 200 arrests of individuals from Abyssinia, a nation that ceased to exist in 1952, and 1,000 of individuals from Ethiopia, the nation that replaced Abyssinia over 60 years ago.
We should also remember that not all of these arrests will necessarily have led to a charge, and still fewer would have resulted in a conviction. However when taken together with the prison population figures, it does seem reasonable to conclude that Romania has an unusually high number of its citizens involved in crime given the size of the Romanian population in the UK.

http://fullfact.org/

I haven't got that smiley, said exactly what I thought.

With Romanians and Bulgarians due to gain full working rights in the UK in a little over two months, several papers have suggested crime will accompany a "wave" of immigration. What is the basis for this?
“We have Bulgarian and Romanian gangs committing 90 per cent of ATM crimes and there have been 28,000 arrests of Romanian people for serious offences in the past five years.” Daily Express, 25 October 2013

When we ring in the new year this January, Romanian and Bulgarian nationals hoping to find work in the UK will have more reason to celebrate than most.
On January 1 2014, the transitional restrictions that prevent citizens from these 'A2 countries' from finding employment without a work permit - restictions which have been in place since Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007 to guard against disruption to the British labour market - will be lifted.
Many expect a surge in immigration from these countries to follow, although in the absence of government estimates, there has been disagreement about exactly how many migrants we might expect.
Some have also warned about an increased risk of crime, and we've examined claims that the UK is in the grip of a "Romanian crimewave" earlier in the year. The Express developed this theme last week, pointing out that nine out of ten of those responsible for fraud at cash points were from these countries.
ATM crimes
The claim that 90% of crime at ATMs (or cash machines) is the work of Romanian gangs has often been repeated in the press as far back as early 2012.
It can be traced back to DCI Paul Barnard, then head of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit (DCPCU) - a police unit run in partnership with banks and financial services companies. DCI Barnard told ITV1’s ‘Fraud Squad’ programme that:
"The fact is 92 per cent of all ATM fraud we see in this country is committed by Romanian nationals."
We spoke to the DCPCU hoping to find out more, but were told that DCI Barnard was no longer head of the unit, and that no further details were held on this particular claim.
Although a spokesperson did tell us that the figure was based on "police intelligence at the time", he also said that no statistics were available on the issue.
What we can tell from this is that the Express has been a little unfair to Bulgarians: according to the source of the claim, it is Romanian nationals alone who are responsible for 92% of ATM fraud.
But there are many unanswered questions in relation to this statistic. We don't know what time period it refers to, and whether more up-to-date figures might show a decrease, and whether it is based on anecdotal evidence, or a more thorough review of the problem.
Despite the popularity that this claim has enjoyed in the press, more publicly-available research would be needed to properly assess its accuracy.
28,000 serious offenders?
The second part of the Express's claim focuses on the number of Romanians arrested for "serious crimes".
Again, this statistic has featured more than once in newspaper articles on the subject, and dates from earlier this year.
The source is data that was released in response to a Freedom of Information request by the Metropolitan Police. According to this, there were 27,725 arrests of Romanian nationals in the five years covering the period 2008 to 2012. (In fact, owing to a change in recording methodology, data for 2008 only covers the months April to December, so may underestimate the total for this year.)
While the headline number itself is accurate - only Polish nationals were arrested more frequently in this period - the Express's interpretation leaves a little to be desired.
This is because the data does not relate only to "serious" crimes, but covers all arrests on suspicion of any number of crimes. In fact, the figures separate out the most serious offences, such as murder, rape and other sexual offences, burglary, robbery and other violent offences. These accounted for under a fifth of all arrests, with the remaining 22,332 falling under the 'other offences' category.
It's also worth remembering that these figures relate to arrests where the person is suspected of having committed a crime, and not the numbers charged, let alone found guilty, of these offences.
Conclusion
While both parts of the Express's claim on the prevalance of Romanian crime in the UK have some evidence underpinning them, both need to be carefully understood. A former head of the police unit tasked with tackling ATM crime has indeed estimated that 92% of fraud at cash machines is committed by Romanian nationals (although the Express also threw Bulgarian nationals into the mix), we don't know the basis for this assertion, nor whether or not it still applies.
Similarly, almost 28,000 Romanians have been arrested in the past five years according to Metropolitan Police figures, but only a small fraction of these were on suspicion of "serious" offences.


http://fullfact.org/factchecks/romanians_cash_machine_crime-29254


I have provided you now 2 examples of how papers twist stories Andy, do you agree this happens, as in reality papers are biased to there views?

But didge - I do my research - I know everything that your website has detailed, and it's shocking.

There is nothing good in the detail.

All people have to do is carry out some research and they too will be shocked.

Have your two examples rubbished the original story? No, not at all, they just add a little flesh to the bone.

Great to see you here old pal.

BigAndy9 wrote:But didge - I do my research - I know everything that your website has detailed, and it's shocking.

There is nothing good in the detail.

All people have to do is carry out some research and they too will be shocked.

Have your two examples rubbished the original story?  No, not at all, they just add a little flesh to the bone.

Great to see you here old pal.

Yes they will be shocked that the details provided by the Mail are missing many details which all can see. My examples have shown the short comings of both the Mail and in the express for being incompetent and twisting the details

Now lets take the view you are in the belief that the figures are correct, does this mean because some criminal gangs have entered Britain is reason to have all other Romanians guilty by association?

No, it is an argument constantly used by the likes of the Mail to whip up a frenzy of dislike for these people and can lead to attacks on minorities of which has happened before, it is called irresponsible reporting, because it uses guilt by association.

Well the figures are correct.

"can lead to attacks on minorities"

Well, it does lead to attacks on Brits, at an alarming, unprecedented rate.

The figures are based on arrests, not on how many people were arrested multiple times, thus the figures show a disparity, which it seems you refuse to accept, that is your issue, but it shows you buy into anything you read it seems, that speaks volumes really.

Maybe Spain should stop all Brits coming to their nation based on your logic?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/14/wanted-criminals-spain_n_4272442.html

We all know that today East Europeans do not get a very good press in Britain. Economic difficulties, austerity measures, the rising of anti-EU rhetoric, the electoral context and misleading forecasts in 2004 have combined to create a culture of blame whose victims are now Romanians and Bulgarians. Since the beginning of the year the British public opinion is regularly served with scaremongering about "waves of immigration" and "waves of crime" coming from Eastern Europe and therefore it is not surprising that hostility to immigration has grown.

Part of the media disproportionately associates migrants with theft, pick pocketing and begging but these are phenomena affecting all major cities since the ancient times. It has neither emerged in the recent years in Europe, nor is related to Eastern European communities that have settled into Western countries. Therefore, any attempt to link criminality with a particular nationality or to present it as the result of the EU enlargement is not only untrue, but could fuel racially motivated incidents, as we have witnessed occasionally.

According to research conducted by LSE and quoted by The Observer, in Britain crimes in neighbourhoods that have experienced mass immigration from Eastern Europe has fallen significantly. The report also found that the relationship between the arrival of thousands of foreigners and levels of violence was "close to zero and insignificant".

In their great majority, Romanians living in the UK are very well integrated into the local communities and their presence here is mainly the result of the British market demand. They have the highest employment rate in this country, 85%, with almost 40% having a university degree. They work hard, pay taxes and are valued by their employers. They put into the British public purse more than they take out. Unfortunately, distorted and biased information about a "crime wave" after 1 January 2014 is damaging their lives and reputation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-ion-jinga/romania-europe_b_4056727.html

Just for Big Andy:



As the moment of lifting restrictions on the labour market approaches, it seems that, for a part of the British media, Romanians are the perfect scapegoat to be held responsible for almost everything that goes wrong in the UK. A recent article published by Daily Mail claiming that "Romanians arrested at seven times rate of Britons" is just another unfortunate example.

The article contains outrageous distortions of reality which tries to manipulate the British public opinion. Following its publication, the Embassy of Romania received apologies from the Metropolitan Police for the way the presentation they made at the City Hall on fighting crime in London, was distorted in the article.

The Daily Mail claims that "For every 1000 Romanians in London, 183 are arrested". As the number of Romanians arrested is 800, it is supposed that the total Romanian community in London is around 4,300 persons... In fact, there are more than 60,000 people.

So, in reality, for every 1,000 Romanians in London, only 13 were arrested, which - according to the figures presented by Daily Mail ("26 Britons per 1000 are arrested in London") - is half of the arrest rate for Britons.

Needless to say that "arrested" is different from "convicted" or "charged" and in many cases the same person has been arrested several times. A simple ID check could become an "arrest" if the person is invited to the police station and registered in the database.

During the presentation the New Scotland Yard has done to the City Hall, three examples of foreign nationals arrested were given. None of them was of Romanian nationality, but pictures joining the article in the Daily Mail show Roma/gypsy people, allegedly presented as "Homeless Romanians" - this is more that manipulation, this is racism! Some of the rough sleepers and beggars in central London are Romanian gypsies, but they represent only a tiny minority of all those people sleeping rough or begging in the area.

The article also suggests that many of those people are linked to cash point fraud, but there is no evidence at all that beggars are involved in counterfeiting cards or stealing from cash machines. According to a recent statement of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit in London: "The latest annual figures show that, in 2012, the top five countries for fraudulent activity on UK issued cards were USA, France, Luxembourg, Italy and Ireland". Romanians are not mentioned on this top list. In fact, in their overwhelming majority, Romanians in the UK are well integrated, work hard, they respect the law and are respected by the local communities they are living in.

As mentioned in the presentation made by the Metropolitan Police, I have recently met representatives of the operation Nexus. The British officers reassured me that the proportion of crimes committed in London by Romanian nationals is similar to their proportion in London's population. This confirms what the home secretary has recently made clear, that the level of crime by foreign national in the capital is line with their representation in the population. Romanians make no exception. Just a couple of days ago, hundreds of police officers from the MET, together with Romanian and Polish colleagues, organized a raid in Soho in crackdown on organized crime. They have operated 30 arrests, but no Romanian was arrested. As crime statistics show, in the last quarter the number of crimes committed by Romanian citizens in the UK has decreased by 20%. This is also due to the excellent cooperation we have developed between Romanian and British police forces.

Last September, the business secretary Vince Cable remarked that "Britain is developing an absolutely toxic public opinion on immigration". If this is the case, I believe that by distorting figures and evidence related to the presence of foreigners in the UK, part of the British media has a huge responsibility in this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-ion-jinga/romania-immigration_b_4451633.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Oh what a corker of a post that is and it will no doubt have Big Andy scurrying along as quickly as he can to aplogise on behalf of the the Daily Mail.

But really, he should have known better...



http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/regret-the-error/161261/orwellian-prize-for-inaccuracy-awarded-to-the-daily-mail/

  

Irn Bru wrote:Oh what a corker of a post that is and it will no doubt have Big Andy scurrying along as quickly as he can to aplogise on behalf of the the Daily Mail.

But really, he should have known better...



http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/regret-the-error/161261/orwellian-prize-for-inaccuracy-awarded-to-the-daily-mail/

  

Hi Irn

Indeed, Andy loves stats, unless when they work against him.

  

PhilDidge wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Oh what a corker of a post that is and it will no doubt have Big Andy scurrying along as quickly as he can to aplogise on behalf of the the Daily Mail.

But really, he should have known better...



http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/regret-the-error/161261/orwellian-prize-for-inaccuracy-awarded-to-the-daily-mail/

  

Hi Irn

Indeed, Andy loves stats, unless when they work against him.

  

Afternoon, Didge. He does indeed and maybe next time he'll think twice before rushing in at breakneck speed to bring us the latest installment from the Daily Mail.

That slant you put on me had me   

I just find it incredible Irn how the mail is so irresponsible when reporting things like this, it has no care for the fact it twisted the data to promote a poor view of Romanians when as seen they commit far less crime.


Will we see a retraction from the Mail on this?

I doubt it


Come on Andy, are you not going to admit you got this wrong?

 :D 

PhilDidge wrote:I just find it incredible Irn how the mail is so irresponsible when reporting things like this, it has no care for the fact it twisted the data to promote a poor view of Romanians when as seen they commit far less crime.


Will we see a retraction from the Mail on this?

I doubt it


Come on Andy, are you not going to admit you got this wrong?

 :D 

What do you believe I am wrong on didge?

Your assumptions Andy.

This is what you said earlier on here:

But read the article and it should be the meeting and the figures you are interested in


I did not buy this, neither did Sassy or Irn, so why did you?

PhilDidge wrote:Your assumptions Andy.

This is what you said earlier on here:

But read the article and it should be the meeting and the figures you are interested in


I did not buy this, neither did Sassy or Irn, so why did you?

I still don't get your point didge. You did not buy what and what do you think I am wrong about?

Oh Andy, are you telling me you posted the article from the Daily Mail and did not believe it word for word now?

Please show some dignity and admit the article by the Mail was not only poor by that they also manipulated the data?

PhilDidge wrote:Oh Andy, are you telling me you posted the article from the Daily Mail and did not believe it word for word now?

Please show some dignity and admit the article by the Mail was not only poor by that they also manipulated the data?

Ok, so you thought I shouldn't have believed the article - that I was wrong to believe it.

Ok, thanks.

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:Your assumptions Andy.

This is what you said earlier on here:

But read the article and it should be the meeting and the figures you are interested in


I did not buy this, neither did Sassy or Irn, so why did you?

I still don't get your point didge.  You did not buy what and what do you think I am wrong about?

Andy lad.

I think it's about time you threw the towel in on this one otherwise you'll dig yourself all the way down to Australia. And with some of the posts that have been written on here over the last few days I wouldn't expect a warm welcome when you eventually break surface.

 ::lightsab::  

Is very funny now Andy that you cannot admit the Daily Mail article manipulated the data in such a poor fashion to whip up animosity against Romanians. Now do you not think that the Mail by doing so is irresponsible?

Take your time.

Irn and Didge, you have made my afternoon. Come on Andy, be a man, grow some and admit you and the good old Daily Wail were completely and utterly wrong. I think Didge, you should have used this smiley:

 :/pwn://: