Nick Clegg: "we don't smack our kids"

12th December 2013

No surprises - the man is a complete wet lettuce.


But he said he and wife Miriam have never smacked their sons, Antonio, 11, nine year-old Alberto and Miguel, four.



'It can be very frustrating but the way that I and Miriam and I choose is not by smacking. I do not use a wooden spoon'



Speaking on his weekly LBC 97.3 radio phone-in, he was asked by listener Rachel in Barrow if he smacked his own children.

Mr Clegg said: ‘No, like all parents I sometimes have to restrain myself if they don’t go to bed on time or do their homework. But no, we do not… No, I don’t smack my children.’

He said he had also not been smacked as a child: ‘No, I don’t ever remember my parents doing that. My parents were quite strict but their authority was such that they didn’t need to.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522461/Nick-Clegg-I-smack-sons.html#ixzz2nGfnF9MN

Only someone with no parenting skills needs to smack their children to get them to behave.

Sassy wrote:Only someone with no parenting skills needs to smack their children to get them to behave.

Ok sassy.

I disagree.

Oh I'm sure you do Andy, doesn't surprise me in the least.

It all depends on the situation tbh. I have smacked my children in the past once or twice though.

I preferred the naughty step as it made a lot of difference!

I was smacked twice as I recall; as a small child it was probably more but I don't remember.  I'm not sure a smack is as damaging as parents/adults who control by fear to be honest  

Once a child is old enough to understand and be reasoned with a smack will do more harm than good in my opinion.

I have changed my mind on this recently. Though I was smacked a few times as a child I would say I learnt nothing from it and resented it everytime. The main argument against, and which I agree with, is that it is a sign of having lost control of your child.

I've no doubt Clegg (for all his failings as Deputy PM and Liberal Leader) does a good job bringing up his children. And it worth mentioning, of all the children I see the best behaved are those where the parents do not smack- and the bad kids, they are, and in turn are more likely to get into fights with other kids (the result of smacking often of course is the kids thinks it is ok to hit others).

When my grandaughter came to live with me her Dad had smacked her, hard, a lot of times, and it took me a long while to undo the damage he did.

Sassy wrote:When my grandaughter came to live with me her Dad had smacked her, hard, a lot of times, and it took me a long while to undo the damage he did.

Getting smacked from your father isn't right. I have never been smacked by my dad and nor has my husband ever hit my kids.

SEXY MAMA. wrote:

Sassy wrote:When my grandaughter came to live with me her Dad had smacked her, hard, a lot of times, and it took me a long while to undo the damage he did.

Getting smacked from your father isn't right. I have never been smacked by my dad and nor has my husband ever hit my kids.

That's an interesting comment Sexy, are you saying it's ok for a mother to do so?

feelthelove wrote:

SEXY MAMA. wrote:

Sassy wrote:When my grandaughter came to live with me her Dad had smacked her, hard, a lot of times, and it took me a long while to undo the damage he did.

Getting smacked from your father isn't right. I have never been smacked by my dad and nor has my husband ever hit my kids.

That's an interesting comment Sexy, are you saying it's ok for a mother to do so?

I have in the past about once or twice though. What i mean to say is that a woman's slap isn't as hard as a mans. If that makes sense.

I think it all depends on the force used and situation etc.
a light slap on the back of the legs is fine. Particularly if the child is doing something that will endanger themselves or others.
the problems occur when smacking becomes the go to solution, it is something that should be used as sparingly as possible but I believe it does need to in the cupboard of possible solutions. Ultimately Humans are animals and on a very primal level we learn by Physical re-enforcement. a Slap on the lags wil hurt a lot less that live electrical wires, wild animals or moving vehicles.

Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely agree. My grandaughter resorted to violence whenever she was angry when she came back to us, it took a long time to get her back on track and a lot of patience being firm but kind. It was very hard. I never smacked my kids. I'm a great believer in distraction lol

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely disagree, they don't, there's whole generations who've grown up smacked on occassions and we all understood the difference between hitting as a solution and as a punishment, we have not grown up to be axe murders or even to fight or hit anyone else, its like all punishments it has to be done at the right time and the right occassions. I can say all of my peers were smacked - rarely it must be said and only up to a certain age and they are all pretty decent people who've managed to bring up decent children, some of whom smacked some didn't, the children are well behaved, the same can't be said for many children I see around today, their language and behaviour is pretty bad, most shops won't allow more than two inside at a time during school lunch hours. I prefer other punishments but wouldn't condem a parent a short sharp slap (on the legs or backside) if they think its justified. Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

in the real world violence exists.
Violence is a solution to some situations

In another thread we discuss the Solution to Apartheid... how did Mandela do it.... Violence. Because it was the solution.

and it does solve stuff from personal experience I was picked on a school for being Fat until at 13 I had enough and beat the fuck out of one of them. None of the kids a school teased me anymore. If they did I would offer to fight them when the turned that offer down I would call them a coward, the whole power dynamic turned around as soon as I was willing to be violent.

It is better for a kid to learn about the appropriate use of violence then not at all, the Kid that run around school hitting all the other little kids is normally the one that has parents that are 100% against smacking. it is better that they get smacked than go undisciplined.

@vintage

Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

YES    Agree 100%

Vintage wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely disagree, they don't, there's whole generations who've grown up smacked on occassions and we all understood the difference between hitting as a solution and as a punishment, we have not grown up to be axe murders or even to fight or hit anyone else, its like all punishments it has to be done at the right time and the right occassions. I can say all of my peers were smacked - rarely it must be said and only up to a certain age and they are all pretty decent people who've managed to bring up decent children, some of whom smacked some didn't, the children are well behaved, the same can't be said for many children I see around today, their language and behaviour is pretty bad, most shops won't allow more than two inside at a time during school lunch hours. I prefer other punishments but wouldn't condem a parent a short sharp slap (on the legs or backside) if they think its justified. Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

That may be your choice but I won't sign up to corporal punishment of an adult hitting a child and inflicting pain on them to get a result. Are yiu ok with a teacher belting your child?

Don't agree with smacking at all.

I had thought very hard about replying to this topic....My father used to use a wooden clothes brush on both myself and my brother when we were kids, on our bare backsides just for talking with each other after bedtime.

It was brutal, and he used to delight in banging that brush up each stair....There is no excuse for corporal punishment and it messed up my brothers mind as well as mine.

The child very often doesn't know that difference Veya, and I'd say there was a huge difference between standing up for yourself when you have been tormented against your peers, and an adult, who holds all the power inflicting hurt on a child to make a point. The children I know who have been violent are those that have experienced violence at home. My grandaughter proved it to me. When her father got contol of her, she was a sunny child, well mannered with a lovely disposition. Over time, when we managed to see her, she became more and more inward and bad mannered and bad tempered. When we got her back she physically attacked me when I told her off. Turned out her father had been holding her down and battering her backside for the slightest indiscretion. He used to count while he did it. The only way she could stop him was to fight back, it became what she did when told off to stop the smackings. She was 12 when she came back to me. She is 19 now, and I love her to bits, but there were times I felt I was never going to get through to her. I'm sorry, but I really disagree. Smacking does damage a child, even if they won't admit it. I know people who say, I was smacked and it never hurt me, as they smack their child and don't realise that is what they have been taught to do.

Catman wrote:Don't agree with smacking at all.

I had thought very hard about replying to this topic....My father used to use a wooden clothes brush on both myself and my brother when we were kids, on our bare backsides just for talking with each other after bedtime.

It was brutal, and he used to delight in banging that brush up each stair....There is no excuse for corporal punishment and it messed up my brothers mind as well as mine.

Absolutely agree Phil.

Sassy wrote:

Catman wrote:Don't agree with smacking at all.

I had thought very hard about replying to this topic....My father used to use a wooden clothes brush on both myself and my brother when we were kids, on our bare backsides just for talking with each other after bedtime.

It was brutal, and he used to delight in banging that brush up each stair....There is no excuse for corporal punishment and it messed up my brothers mind as well as mine.

Absolutely agree Phil.

I would suggest that if you allow a tap, then with some parents that could escalate?

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Catman wrote:Don't agree with smacking at all.

I had thought very hard about replying to this topic....My father used to use a wooden clothes brush on both myself and my brother when we were kids, on our bare backsides just for talking with each other after bedtime.

It was brutal, and he used to delight in banging that brush up each stair....There is no excuse for corporal punishment and it messed up my brothers mind as well as mine.

Absolutely agree Phil.

I would suggest that if you allow a tap, then with some parents that could escalate?

I think so. What do you do if the tap doesn't work - tap harder, and then harder?

We were potentially slapped by parents, teachers and police and yes some people can't tell the difference between a slap and a belting - like being hit by a wooden spoon. I prefer as I said other methods but I certainly take issue with the statement that slapping your child automatically makes then think hitting is the solution to problems and I'll say again most of us understood the difference between a punishment and someone just being aggressive. Strange as it may seem to younger people on here but we were taught hitting someone was not a solution except as a very last resort if you were in trouble perhaps and for most of us it has worked. We had fights between people or groups with a grudge but it was rare unlike today to be picked on by a complete stranger and to be left for dead. The country seems far more violent now (in general as in stranger on stranger) than when I was socialising as a youngster.

Sassy wrote: Turned out her father had been holding her down and battering her backside for the slightest indiscretion.

^^^^
that is the problem, not the smack it self it is the excessive use of it, in place of more approriate responses. I am in no way suggesting smacking as a primary means of discipline, but there are times when it may be needed (or at least the fear of it may be needed) so it shouldn't be outlawed.

Yes with some parent is could escalate but thats why we have child abuse laws, to stop those parents.

the Idea of using a implement or hitting harder is wrong. the strike doesn't have to be hard and increasing the force isn't going to do anything, it is the shock that I think gets a reaction, again this is playing of primal parenting techniques used by most social mammals. I'm also talking about little kids under 8, once they are over that age you should be able to explain and reason with them. even under 8 if they can be reasoned with and have consequences explained that should Always be the first option.

And No one is Taught to smack their child we have evolved over Millions of years do do such things, a mother Dog or Ape will do the same. it is the natural way. we as a society are choosing to try and do things differnet to the natural way, this may be the next step in our evolution (or it might be a bunch of pacifist garbage)

Sassy wrote:

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Catman wrote:Don't agree with smacking at all.

I had thought very hard about replying to this topic....My father used to use a wooden clothes brush on both myself and my brother when we were kids, on our bare backsides just for talking with each other after bedtime.

It was brutal, and he used to delight in banging that brush up each stair....There is no excuse for corporal punishment and it messed up my brothers mind as well as mine.

Absolutely agree Phil.

I would suggest that if you allow a tap, then with some parents that could escalate?

I think so.   What do you do if the tap doesn't work - tap harder, and then harder?

Once one tap is allowed in law, then it let's the brakes off imo...Of course the majority parents can exercise some kind of restraint imo, but there are others that can't and that's why we have laws against child abuse...There has to be a universal law and that is that.

Vintage wrote:We were potentially slapped by parents, teachers and police and yes some people can't tell the difference between a slap and a belting - like being hit by a wooden spoon. I prefer as I said other methods but I certainly take issue with the statement that slapping your child automatically makes then think hitting is the solution to problems and I'll say again most of us understood the difference between a punishment and  someone just being aggressive. Strange as it may seem to younger people on here but we were taught hitting someone was not a solution except as a very last resort if you were in trouble perhaps and for most of us it has worked. We had fights between people or groups with a grudge but it was rare unlike today to be picked on by a complete stranger and to be left for dead. The country seems far more violent now (in general as in stranger on stranger) than when I was socialising as a youngster.

Well Vintage, I'm probably of the same generation as you as I'm 68 next week.   I remember friends getting the belt and the anger that simmered in them.   My mum went into hospital for two years and my father's parents looked after my brother and myself, and they belted me and it made me very very angry and resentful and rebellious, and it was only when my mum came back and that I began to get straight again, but even then it took her time to get me back.   There were bullies at school and they were nearly all miserable children who were taking out on others what they got at home.    How can you teach children that hitting is the last solution while you hit them?   I've never understood that.   I remember Teddy Boys and flick knives and the punch-ups that went on between the mods and the rockers.   I remember the London street gangs, they weren't kids, they were grown-ups, but they were very violent.   When read history, there has always been violence, I just think we have been communications now and read about it a lot more.   Think of the violence in Dickens!

I also remember a friend having her knuckles broken at school when a teacher made her hold her hand out, palm side down, and caned it.

Vintage wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely disagree, they don't, there's whole generations who've grown up smacked on occassions and we all understood the difference between hitting as a solution and as a punishment, we have not grown up to be axe murders or even to fight or hit anyone else, its like all punishments it has to be done at the right time and the right occassions. I can say all of my peers were smacked - rarely it must be said and only up to a certain age and they are all pretty decent people who've managed to bring up decent children, some of whom smacked some didn't, the children are well behaved, the same can't be said for many children I see around today, their language and behaviour is pretty bad, most shops won't allow more than two inside at a time during school lunch hours. I prefer other punishments but wouldn't condem a parent a short sharp slap (on the legs or backside) if they think its justified. Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

Excellent post Vintage.

How strange that the group of posters on here with such similar views on so many different topics all said they disagreed with smacking, that they had done it "once or twice" etc etc.

I very much remember every child I knew when I was growing up saying they had been smacked - it was the norm. Did I live on another planet?

Who said they had done it 'once or twice', I certainly didn't.

My friends were certainly never smacked and we felt sorry for those that were, and thought of the parents that did it as monsters.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Vintage wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely disagree, they don't, there's whole generations who've grown up smacked on occassions and we all understood the difference between hitting as a solution and as a punishment, we have not grown up to be axe murders or even to fight or hit anyone else, its like all punishments it has to be done at the right time and the right occassions. I can say all of my peers were smacked - rarely it must be said and only up to a certain age and they are all pretty decent people who've managed to bring up decent children, some of whom smacked some didn't, the children are well behaved, the same can't be said for many children I see around today, their language and behaviour is pretty bad, most shops won't allow more than two inside at a time during school lunch hours. I prefer other punishments but wouldn't condem a parent a short sharp slap (on the legs or backside) if they think its justified. Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

Excellent post Vintage.

How strange that the group of posters on here with such similar views on so many different topics all said they disagreed with smacking, that they had done it "once or twice" etc etc.

I very much remember every child I knew when I was growing up saying they had been smacked - it was the norm.  Did I live on another planet?

No Andy, you did not live on another planet .... I too, was smacked lightly as a child. I have 2 children and one of them, yes I have smacked on occasion and the other a complete no. Reason being, they were like chalk n cheese.

But as other posters have pointed out, of course there is a complete difference from a light smack to beating a child hard.

Once one tap is allowed in law,

it is currently allowed by law

Costa wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Vintage wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Hit your child, they hit their brothers or their sisters and they in turn hit other children believing that hitting people is a solution. It's not - it solves nothing.

Completely disagree, they don't, there's whole generations who've grown up smacked on occassions and we all understood the difference between hitting as a solution and as a punishment, we have not grown up to be axe murders or even to fight or hit anyone else, its like all punishments it has to be done at the right time and the right occassions. I can say all of my peers were smacked - rarely it must be said and only up to a certain age and they are all pretty decent people who've managed to bring up decent children, some of whom smacked some didn't, the children are well behaved, the same can't be said for many children I see around today, their language and behaviour is pretty bad, most shops won't allow more than two inside at a time during school lunch hours. I prefer other punishments but wouldn't condem a parent a short sharp slap (on the legs or backside) if they think its justified. Its time people realised there's a huge difference between a corrective slap and a beating.

Excellent post Vintage.

How strange that the group of posters on here with such similar views on so many different topics all said they disagreed with smacking, that they had done it "once or twice" etc etc.

I very much remember every child I knew when I was growing up saying they had been smacked - it was the norm.  Did I live on another planet?

No Andy, you did not live on another planet .... I too, was smacked lightly as a child. I have 2 children and one of them, yes I have smacked on occasion and the other a complete no. Reason being, they were like chalk n cheese.

But as other posters have pointed out, of course there is a complete difference from a light smack to beating a child hard.

Agreed costa.

I think the people who started mentioning beating children were those who are so against smacking - it's as though they believe that is what we are talking about.

I almost get the feeling maybe some of the liberals out there experienced that and that is what has made them the people they are today.

Sassy wrote:

Vintage wrote:We were potentially slapped by parents, teachers and police and yes some people can't tell the difference between a slap and a belting - like being hit by a wooden spoon. I prefer as I said other methods but I certainly take issue with the statement that slapping your child automatically makes then think hitting is the solution to problems and I'll say again most of us understood the difference between a punishment and  someone just being aggressive. Strange as it may seem to younger people on here but we were taught hitting someone was not a solution except as a very last resort if you were in trouble perhaps and for most of us it has worked. We had fights between people or groups with a grudge but it was rare unlike today to be picked on by a complete stranger and to be left for dead. The country seems far more violent now (in general as in stranger on stranger) than when I was socialising as a youngster.

Well Vintage, I'm probably of the same generation as you as I'm 68 next week.   I remember friends getting the belt and the anger that simmered in them.   My mum went into hospital for two years and my father's parents looked after my brother and myself, and they belted me and it made me very very angry and resentful and rebellious, and it was only when my mum came back and that I began to get straight again, but even then it took her time to get me back.   There were bullies at school and they were nearly all miserable children who were taking out on others what they got at home.    How can you teach children that hitting is the last solution while you hit them?   I've never understood that.   I remember Teddy Boys and flick knives and the punch-ups that went on between the mods and the rockers.   I remember the London street gangs, they weren't kids, they were grown-ups, but they were very violent.   When read history, there has always been violence, I just think we have been communications now and read about it a lot more.   Think of the violence in Dickens!

I also remember a friend having her knuckles broken at school when a teacher made her hold her hand out, palm side down, and caned it.

Yes there were gangs around here also but they fought each other, something like football tribes, teaching children hitting is not appropriate while occassionally using smacking as a punishment in appropriate situations? Do people get locked up as punishment and do they then come out and lock other people up as a solution to any problem? People and children understand the difference between punishment and aggression as you said you were 'belted' there's the difference, the girl with her broken hand should never have happened - I have had a cane on a couple of occassions never on the knuckles though and here I am if I say so myself a decent law abiding citizen who knows right from wrong and have only ever hit someone once - when I was attacked first and nearly mugged and I was smacked (rarely it must be said) and there are very many of us in the same position, very unaggressive if that's a word.

Who has said smacking is the same as beating? But once you start smacking psychological barrier of not damaging the child and protecting it is lifted and a line is crossed. And children can't tell the difference between a hard smack and a beating, it's just infliction of pain by someone who has power of them. Cowardly in my view. My parents never smacked me, wouldn't have crossed their minds, but my father's parents believed in it and did it when they looked after us. My behaviours, which had never been a problem, became one. Luckily my mum got out of hospital, but she had to repair the damage done. My grandparents thought they were just smacking as well.

Vintage wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Vintage wrote:We were potentially slapped by parents, teachers and police and yes some people can't tell the difference between a slap and a belting - like being hit by a wooden spoon. I prefer as I said other methods but I certainly take issue with the statement that slapping your child automatically makes then think hitting is the solution to problems and I'll say again most of us understood the difference between a punishment and  someone just being aggressive. Strange as it may seem to younger people on here but we were taught hitting someone was not a solution except as a very last resort if you were in trouble perhaps and for most of us it has worked. We had fights between people or groups with a grudge but it was rare unlike today to be picked on by a complete stranger and to be left for dead. The country seems far more violent now (in general as in stranger on stranger) than when I was socialising as a youngster.

Well Vintage, I'm probably of the same generation as you as I'm 68 next week.   I remember friends getting the belt and the anger that simmered in them.   My mum went into hospital for two years and my father's parents looked after my brother and myself, and they belted me and it made me very very angry and resentful and rebellious, and it was only when my mum came back and that I began to get straight again, but even then it took her time to get me back.   There were bullies at school and they were nearly all miserable children who were taking out on others what they got at home.    How can you teach children that hitting is the last solution while you hit them?   I've never understood that.   I remember Teddy Boys and flick knives and the punch-ups that went on between the mods and the rockers.   I remember the London street gangs, they weren't kids, they were grown-ups, but they were very violent.   When read history, there has always been violence, I just think we have been communications now and read about it a lot more.   Think of the violence in Dickens!

I also remember a friend having her knuckles broken at school when a teacher made her hold her hand out, palm side down, and caned it.

Yes there were gangs around here also but they fought each other, something like football tribes, teaching children hitting is not appropriate while occassionally using smacking as a punishment in appropriate situations? Do people get locked up as punishment and do they then come out and lock other people up as a solution to any problem? People and children understand the difference between punishment and aggression as you said you were 'belted' there's the difference, the girl with her broken hand should never have happened - I have had a cane on a couple of occassions never on the knuckles though and here I am if I say so myself a decent law abiding citizen who knows right from wrong and have only ever hit someone once - when I was attacked first and nearly mugged and I was smacked (rarely it must be said) and there are very many of us in the same position, very unaggressive if that's a word.

I understand that Vintage, but for every one like you, there was one that was turned into a bully. People who come out of prison don't lock up other people, because they can't, but I'm pretty certain they have trouble dealing with relationships afterwards. Every single bully I have ever come across was bullied in turn, mostly by those people who should have protected them.

If it's just a 'light smack' like inflicting little or no pain them what's the point?

If a child is Psychologically damaged by a light smack (which there is no evidnese for, no study conclusively shows this, beatings and abuse are different) they are probably suffering from much bigger Psyhcological issues. a Human should be able to Understand the difference between getting smacked because they have done something wrong and someone attacking them for no reason as a 4 years old I could definitly tell that and Most Puppies can work it out pretty quick too. I would suggest they have mild Autism because a Human should be able to tell the difference between Punishment for misbehavour, a reaction to the ones own action, and 'just infliction of pain'. We expect Animals to be able to do this (and they can), so a Human Definitly should be able to.

once you start smacking psychological barrier of not damaging the child and protecting it is lifted and a line is crossed.

Disagree entirely, I was only smacked when I was doing something wrong that could get me hurt, Even as a little kid I understood that My Parents were scared for me that is why My Actions got a dramatic Reaction, thus I learnt my lesson. You smack to proctect them and teach them. I think parents that wont smack thier child when it is the approriate discipline dont care enough for their child. Or greatly over play how special their little brat is(because they are always brats). Or underestimate the intelligence/resilience of children (if they are so dumb how are you going to reaosn with them anyway).
If a child is not as capable of reading Human expressions and understanding Consequences as a Puppy dog (keeping in mind we asking the dog to read a completely differet spieces) that is a problem.

Irn Bru wrote:If it's just a 'light smack' like inflicting little or no pain them what's the point?

I think every animal recognises pain from the moment they are born.

I'm no psychologist but I think it may be the one and only emotion (probably the wrong term) we have from birth.

A light smack inflicting a little pain and they know it could be worse.

And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:If it's just a 'light smack' like inflicting little or no pain them what's the point?

I think every animal recognises pain from the moment they are born.

I'm no psychologist but I think it may be the one and only emotion (probably the wrong term) we have from birth.

A light smack inflicting a little pain and they know it could be worse.

So it has to be painful to be effective? So how much pain does the job that a stern voice and a good talking to won't do just as well?

veya_victaous wrote:If a child is Psychologically damaged by a light smack (which there is no evidnese for, no study conclusively shows this, beatings and abuse are different) they are probably suffering from much bigger Psyhcological issues. a Human should be able to Understand the difference between getting smacked because they have done something wrong and someone attacking them for no reason as a 4 years old I could definitly tell that and Most Puppies can work it out pretty quick too. I would suggest they have mild Autism because a Human should be able to tell the difference between Punishment for misbehavour, a reaction to the ones own action, and 'just infliction of pain'. We expect Animals to be able to do this (and they can), so a Human Definitly should be able to.

once you start smacking psychological barrier of not damaging the child and protecting it is lifted and a line is crossed.

Disagree entirely, I was only smacked when I was doing something wrong that could get me hurt, Even as a little kid I understood that My Parents were scared for me that is why My Actions got a dramatic Reaction, thus I learnt my lesson. You smack to proctect them and teach them. I think parents that wont smack thier child when it is the approriate discipline dont care enough for their child.  Or greatly over play how special their little brat is(because they are always brats). Or underestimate the intelligence/resilience of children (if they are so dumb how are you going to reaosn with them anyway).
If a child is not as capable of reading Human expressions and understanding Consequences as a Puppy dog (keeping in mind we asking the dog to read a completely differet spieces) that is a problem.

Well, I always found distraction a must better method Veya, and never had a problem with my kids. Mind you, I used to be in another room and just on the off-chance call out 'and you can stop that right now!'. When they used to ask how I knew, I told them Mum's had special powers and could see through walls. Took quite a while before they realised I couldn't lol

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

@irn bru
Physical re-enforcement.
Many Animals including humans learn through experience, in social animals that learning includes noting 'the reactions to our actions' just like a puppy dog, or do you think you have to make the dog yelp in pain? you do know you can literally just hold their ear.

Pain (Real Pain) should not be a part of it. you're not beating them, you are focusing their attention.

Broken Knuckles, holding them down to beat them that is Not Discipling a child that is ABUSE. If your objective is to cause pain that is abuse and you should not be allowed near children or animals.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

1. It's much harder to make sure your children behave without smacking, smacking is the easy route.

2. I loathed Tony Blair

3. You called Nick Clegg a 'wet lettuce' for not smacking his kids as if it was macho to smack them, that showed quite a lot.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

Isn't hitting children the easy route?

Would you be happy for a teacher to take the belt to your children?

Sassy wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

1.   It's much harder to make sure your children behave without smacking, smacking is the easy route.

2.   I loathed Tony Blair

3.   You called Nick Clegg a 'wet lettuce' for not smacking his kids as if it was macho to smack them, that showed quite a lot.

I disagree on your point 1.

Yes, i'm sure you did loathe him, because he took the difficult decisions which you wouldn't be able to take.

Nick Clegg is a wet lettuce, not because he doesn't smack his kids. He doesn't smack his kids because he's a wet lettuce.

Well, I'll leave you to it. Might have time for a few posts tomorrow, but will be back on Sunday. Have fun all lol

[quote="Irn Bru"]

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

Isn't hitting children the easy route?

Would you be happy for a teacher to take the belt to your children?[/quote]

The key to why discipline has gone downhill - the modern "my kids can do no wrong" "how dare you say my angel has done that".

I would be happy for a teacher to discipline my children.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

1.   It's much harder to make sure your children behave without smacking, smacking is the easy route.

2.   I loathed Tony Blair

3.   You called Nick Clegg a 'wet lettuce' for not smacking his kids as if it was macho to smack them, that showed quite a lot.

I disagree on your point 1.

Yes, i'm sure you did loathe him, because he took the difficult decisions which you wouldn't be able to take.

Nick Clegg is a wet lettuce, not because he doesn't smack his kids.  He doesn't smack his kids because he's a wet lettuce.

Of course you disagree with 1, because you couldn't do it.

I loathe Tony Blair because I spent time with him, and he is the slimiest b....d you could meet and he didn't take difficult decisions, he took wrong decisions, a huge difference.

If you can't see wants wrong with your sentence about Clegg and what it says about you, I'm sorry for you. Night.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Sassy wrote:And there's me thinking its a parents job to protect a child from pain Andy.

A parents job is to be a parent sassy.

It isn't always easy, and you shouldn't always choose the easy route.

Didn't Tony Blair teach his fans anything when he was in power?

Isn't hitting children the easy route?

Would you be happy for a teacher to take the belt to your children?[/quote]

The key to why discipline has gone downhill - the modern "my kids can do no wrong"  "how dare you say my angel has done that".

I would be happy for a teacher to discipline my children.

How much pian would you authorise a teacher to inflict on your child and are you sure that the teacher has called it right in deciding that the punishment is just and fair?