Vast scale of British slave ownership revealed

The shocking scale of British slave ownership has been revealed in scores of official records which have found that thousands of modern-day Britons are related to owners who received huge sums in compensation when the trade was abolished.
A five year project by University College London has compiled the identities of 46,000 Britons who owned slaves, mainly in the West Indies, on the day that slavery was abolished in 1833.
Prime Minister David Cameron and his wife Samantha, Benedict Cumberbach, Ben Affleck and author George Orwell are just some of the high profile ancestors of the slave owners revealed in the files. Records from the Slave Compensation Commission show that some 800,000 Africans were freed upon abolition after being kept as legal property.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/vast-scale-of-british-slave-ownership-revealed-10383768.html

While slavery is a vile and terrible thing, I wouldn't call 46,000 vast. Its time sensitive in any case, it wasn't considered wrong by possibly the majority of people, thankfully enough people realised it was wrong and set about doing something about it. It has gone on since people got themselves organised, only recently being abolished in some countries and still going on with people trafficking. That's all I'll say about that at this time.
So what if people's ancestors were slave owners what are they supposed to do about it? Many other peoples ancestors were in fact slaves to the Romans, The Vikings, The Barbary pirates, the Ottoman Empire to name a few. All had a pretty industrial approach to slavery, just because the European trade from Africa to the West Indies was perhaps on a larger scale doesn't make it any less barbaric or indeed any worse, at least Britain put its money where its mouth was and fought to end the trade in the west.

Vintage wrote:While slavery is a vile and terrible thing, I wouldn't call 46,000 vast. Its time sensitive in any case, it wasn't considered wrong by possibly the majority of people, thankfully enough people realised it was wrong and set about doing something about it. It has gone on since people got themselves organised, only recently being abolished in some countries and still going on with people trafficking. That's all I'll say about that at this time.
So what if people's ancestors were slave owners what are they supposed to do about it? Many other peoples ancestors were in fact slaves to the Romans, The Vikings, The Barbary pirates, the Ottoman Empire to name a few. All had a pretty industrial approach to slavery, just because the European trade from Africa to the West Indies was perhaps on a larger scale doesn't make it any less barbaric or indeed any worse, at least Britain put its money where its mouth was and fought to end the trade in the west.

How does that excuse at the time the elite of Britain owned vast amount of slaves?
Nobody is saying any slavery anywhere else is right, but this article is about how extensive it was within Britain.
Yes you were right that in this country they did the right thing, but do you know how long and hard that was foughtfor to bring about change?
I think its a very valid point people of today know of the extent of the involvement of their ancestors and the wrongs done by them. What you failto grasp is that many of these people benefited including the nation which brought about its advancements through this blood money. This should never be discounted. The privilidge poition we all have today stems from blood money.
That is something that should never be forgotten.
So yes at least Britain did fight to end the slave trade, that though does not excuse the wrongs and profit that it gained from doing so.

Why is it always Britain held up as the bogey man of slavery and colonialism, its not as if no other state/empire has never been involved, slavery has been around since the human race got organised. So if we are to out decendants of families involved lets go the whole hog and investigate the whole ugly buisness with every state/empire thats ever been involved. - not feasible no of course not. The list of states waging war and taking slaves is long, as is the raids on various countries to plunder and cature slaves, every where I can think of did this, many long after Britain fought against it, in fact some only made it illegal quite recently, even Africa was not immune from enslaving people of other tribes either due to war or raiding and they did a pretty brisk business in their fellow Africans with the middle east. Exactly what is the purpose in naming families with decendants living now especially those who may be famous for other reasons, what are they expected to do, what is everyone else supposed to do with the info? Their families made money out of what was at the time a legitimate business, as tasteless as it was, happened before, still happening.

Vintage wrote:Why is it always Britain held up as the bogey man of slavery and colonialism, its not as if no other state/empire has never been involved, slavery has been around since the human race got organised. So if we are to out decendants of families involved lets go the whole hog and investigate the whole ugly buisness with every state/empire thats ever been involved. - not feasible no of course not. The list of states waging war and taking slaves is long, as is the raids on various countries to plunder and cature slaves, every where I can think of did this, many long after Britain fought against it, in fact some only made it illegal quite recently, even Africa was not immune from enslaving people of other tribes either due to war or raiding and they did a pretty brisk business in their fellow Africans with the middle east. Exactly what is the purpose in naming families with decendants living now especially those who may be famous for other reasons, what are they expected to do, what is everyone else supposed to do with the info? Their families made money out of what was at the time a legitimate business, as tasteless as it was, happened before, still happening.

Well considering this is about British history do you not think its importantor should it just be swept under the carpert as you seem to be suggesting?
Its not about investigating any family, talk about being paranoid.
Again you keep deflecting aboutother nations of which nobody is disputing so it begs the question why are you doing this when we are talking about the British involvement?
I think again its very important for families to know what their ancestors done in a time when slavery was acceptable based off Christian teachings. It shows how far again this society has come, butI fail to see why you wish to stem any talk about important history of which again this country greatly advantaged over.
Again your privilidged position you were born into stems from the welath made from slavery and the Empire. It allowd this country to advance both technologically and through social advancement like with schools etc.
We should never discount the part that Britain played or the facteach and everyone of us have the distinct advantage we do today due to this part in history.

I would also add, that Britain may have ended slavery but it still continued to treat its colonial subjects in Africa and Asia in near enough slavery. Only an elite were educated to the point that when the British withdrew, it left a complete mess of a elite in charge with very little democracy. That mess continues today and will take decades to resolve. This is important history, the sort of history that never should be forgotten.

I doubt any one really wants it forgotten. I certainly don't however I get a bit peeved when activists and progressives constantly mention Britain as the big bad monster all the time. Although bad compared to today British colonies weren't so badly off as some, that doesn't excuse it of course. People in Britain weren't treated particularly well up until fairly recently as far as history is concerned. You worked in the cotton industry and were apprenticed -sold- to the company for seven years, even after that the owner may as well have owned you outright. In the mines people - not just men but women and children were paid in tokens only redeemable at the company shop, no chance to save to get out from under - slavery-. Agricultural workers paid a pittance and hired out for the year and paid at the end of the year, after board and lodgings taken out and god help you if you weren't hired. People make it sound like even the ordinary British people lived like kings while exploiting the poor colonials all the time, yet the exploitation by their own ruling class before colonisation was truly dreadful in many areas. A bit of prespective is required with history however recent.

Vintage wrote:I doubt any one really wants it forgotten. I certainly don't however I get a bit peeved when activists and progressives constantly mention Britain as the big bad monster all the time. Although bad compared to today British colonies weren't so badly off as some, that doesn't excuse it of course. People in Britain weren't treated particularly well up until fairly recently as far as history is concerned. You worked in the cotton industry and were apprenticed -sold- to the company for seven years, even after that the owner may as well have owned you outright. In the mines people - not just men but women and children were paid in tokens only redeemable at the company shop, no chance to save to get out from under - slavery-. Agricultural workers paid a pittance and hired out for the year and paid at the end of the year, after board and lodgings taken out and god help you if you weren't hired. People make it sound like even the ordinary British people lived like kings while exploiting the poor colonials all the time, yet the exploitation by their own ruling class before colonisation was truly dreadful in many areas. A bit of prespective is required with history however recent.

Oh here we go progressionists?
It was because of progression that slavery ended?
Have you figured that part out?
So you get peeved at the fact Britain is brought up for the wrongs it has done, why?
Again that is like saying, "I do not want to hear about the past, because I understand its bad and I do not want to be reminded about it."
That is what you are bascially saying. This is British history and its important that it is continued to be repeated and taught.

You then again to attempt to excuse the matter by saying some colonies were not as bad as others. Well there is at least a correct point there, the colonies that were of white control like in Australia and the American Colonies. So yeah they were fine, because they were white of course. Those in Africa and Asia however were treated to near enough slavery and the industry built only favoured the British Empire itself. They wanted to exploit the industries and create railways only to speed up the movment of exports. Not for want of any of the people. Yes the people in Britain at the time were also exploited but through advancements and wealth things like schools started to be introduced for more children.

With more education helps again advance a society to the point those who come after benefit from this. Later then we have hospitals and a health service. So nobody disputes how poorly also people here lived, but it certainly was their children and their children who certainly benefited, to the point you have benefited yourself today. So I am not sure what perspective you are trying to bring here in regards to how you seem to at every courner avoid actually taking about the slavery itself.

Maybe you can explain that?

We need to learn about the negatives in the past in order to have a better future, we also need to learn about the positives in the past. Lately it seems to be the fashion to bash Britain over the head continuously for their past. You don't seem to hear so much of it from other countries about themselves. Once again I say show me any where that hasn't had some kind of colonial past, some empire that hasn't treated people badly, that hasn't stripped resources for their own gain. How is naming families especially with publically known descendants going to help anything, seems to be a bit of spite about it all.
The current people in these families cannot do anything to reverse the past.

Really Britain is a minor player in slavery, Spain was always a much bigger an worse slaver.

Britain was the best a thieving though
And had many "not technically slavery but practically slavery" practices

Agree that the name of families is a bit irrelevant to the modern discussion

here we go again...propaganda in favour of robbing us in the here and now to pay for the "poor slaves and mistreated of yesterday"

do you kbnow what this pathological condition is called???

ANGST....

most of these places have had 60 to 100 years to get their ass into gear and join the 21st century

most of them have failed dismally (including Australia)

victorismyhero wrote:here we go again...propaganda in favour of robbing us in the here and now to pay for the "poor slaves and mistreated of yesterday"

do you kbnow what this pathological condition is called???

ANGST....

most of these places have had 60 to 100 years to get their ass into gear and join the 21st century

most of them have failed dismally (including Australia)

LOL
say the nation stuck 50 years in the past that has let it's average citizen Plummet in wealth.

We are in favor of robbing you cause you are primitive backward nation and we want to take all the things out of your museums that you stole from others (to put in our own Museums )
and you did in the past so it is Ok... we really should try and steal the crown jewels and make them a Museum, display

Australia descended for the Thieves that the thieving British though were too thieving.

I was refering to your "enlightened" treatment of your own "natives"

Bang on the money vintage!!!


This is just more biased and selective 'history' from the anti white British racists!!!

victorismyhero wrote:I was refering to your "enlightened" treatment of your own "natives"

This is a pretty Pathetic comparison
YOU STOLE SHIT and gave no one nothing for it. You wouldn't even returned the Served heads you took as trophies until the 1990's.

we pay every individual with 1 sixteenth or more aboriginal blood $250 a week.
They also Get EVERY SINGLE RIGHT AND SERVICE every other Australian citizen has.

the biggest Crime on Australia behalf was NOT sending British lords that keep ripping off Aboriginals well into the 1970's to the gallows. But the crimes is for things NOT done... as opposed to the Sailing around the world to rape and steal wealth.

Even the Stolen Generation was because of the Church of England, And if we are honest Some of the cases were justified.

See you lot whinge about being asked to pay but don't seem to realize as an Aussie YES some of my tax is used to pay reparation for the wrongs of the BRITISH empire.
And considering my ancestry is french and convict, I am no more responsible than the Average Brit. BUT like the rest of the west i enjoy the benefits of the past and am willing pay for the wrongs that got us here

Something Brits Are Still whining over and acting like ONLY you are being asked, Only you are Still being asked because everyone else already agreed to this basic act of reparation to make up for the CRAP YOU (and other European terrorists/tyrants) did.

Vintage wrote:We need to learn about the negatives in the past in order to have a better future, we also need to learn about the positives in the past. Lately it seems to be the fashion to bash Britain over the head continuously for their past. You don't seem to hear so much of it from other countries about themselves. Once again I say show me any where that hasn't had some kind of colonial past, some empire that hasn't treated people badly, that hasn't stripped resources for their own gain. How is naming families especially with publically known descendants going to help anything, seems to be a bit of spite about it all.
The current people in these families cannot do anything to reverse the past.
 

Again yet more excuses Flix.
Have you actually talked about the topic of slavery or are you looking to again ignore this is the topic.
Again nobody is denying problems within other nations, we are though talking about British involvement which it seems you are desperate to avoid talking about at all costs.
You are just continuing to post the same irrelevant points which seems to wish to deny the history of this country where it has been bad and you elude to where the country has done good which is laso taught and discussed greatly. Stop coming out with the worst apologetic arguments I have ever seen for the wrongs of this nation. Yes itis very beneficial for people to know the wrongs of their ancestors, it can inspire them to do more to help wrong those pasts espcially when today we still have such ignorance around race. The reason racism exist is because of ignorance. So we have no had every single post from you being an apologist failing to talk about slavery but looking to excuse British involvement at every turn as itseems you cannot deal with the fact the British did some really bad things in the past. You are the kind of person that likes to place any bad history under the carpet and use poor reasons not to openly discuss this very important part in history the effects of which are still felt today. But then you have a white middle class mentality and fail to recognise the privileged position you were born into.

I am in no way responsible for ANYTHING my nation did 100 yrs or more ago, it's only the anti- British idiots [mostly Australians] who keep whinging about it.Plenty of other Countries did a lot worst than us! have a go at them for a change. At the moment we shove billions of pounds at some countries, is that because we feel guilty? I don't, I don't give a fuck! I wouldn't give any of them a penny until our country is back on it's feet.

nicko wrote:I am in no way responsible for ANYTHING my nation did 100 yrs or more ago, it's only the anti- British idiots [mostly Australians] who keep whinging about it.Plenty of other Countries did a lot worst than us!  have a go at them for a change. At the moment we shove billions of pounds at some countries, is that because we feel guilty? I don't, I don't give a fuck!  I wouldn't give any of them a penny until our country is back on it's feet.

More responsible than ME
And I AM  PAYING FOR IT EVERY week
SO YES
you are still being asked for it because Pathetic selfish Brits still use the exact BULLSHIT excuses you just gave Nicko

YES you are STILL BEFITTING from the theft 100 years ago SO WHY should you not pay?
Why should Aussies pay when a large number Don't even descend from the people that committed the crimes and got the benefit?

And Who else Spain that then got raped by Brits and France? or France THAT DOERS GETTING TOLD TO PAY all the time too.
UK is not getting asked to do anything that other western nations are not already doing it is just the UK is the one that is refusing to do it's fair share reparation for the CRIME it COMMITTED and still profits from.

Love it nicko!!!


Tell it how it is!!!

nicko wrote:I am in no way responsible for ANYTHING my nation did 100 yrs or more ago, it's only the anti- British idiots [mostly Australians] who keep whinging about it.Plenty of other Countries did a lot worst than us!  have a go at them for a change. At the moment we shove billions of pounds at some countries, is that because we feel guilty? I don't, I don't give a fuck!  I wouldn't give any of them a penny until our country is back on it's feet.

Nobody has claimed you were responsible Nicko
You have however greatly benefitted from slavery.

So by your logic anyone who brings up the Holocaust is being anti-German?
I mean plenty of other nations were involved in the the Holocaust like Romania, Hungary, Slovakia etc. Is talking about the German involvement now wrong. If anything you are being an apologist of slavery trying to censur any talk of a subject which greatly benefitted this country.
Thankfully many people learn from history, as to ignore history tends to allow this to stupidly happen again.

I can see you point didge but I have nothing to apologise for, where have I benefited from slavery? I wasn't even borne then, neither was my father.No one should feel guilt over what their ancesters did.

nicko wrote:I can see you point didge but I have nothing to apologise for, where have I benefited from slavery? I wasn't even borne then, neither was my father.No one should feel guilt over what their ancesters did.

Again Nicko not asking that you should feel guilty for anything. I would never ask that of anyone, as none of us today were responsible. You have however benefitted from today's society which its economic position it has in the world today was very much born from the wealth of slavery and plunder from the Empire. For a start the Industrial revolution would have never gotten off the ground without the wealth needed to fudn such enterprises. This came very much so from slavery and much plundered from India. The industrial revolution greatly advanced the wealth of this nation. You then have how money made from slvery was used to invest in ports, cities and canals, none of which would have been possible without this influx of money. Even banks like Barcleys traded in slavery. Can you see how many of the dots are coming together in how this country rose to be a super power, which would have never have been possible without this wealth. This enabled the British to build ships and dominate the seas and in istelf create an empire a quarter the size of the world. You could easily argue that slvery and the wealth made from this set up capitalism itself within the UK. As can be seen all of these many aspects played a part in helping create the position Britain stands today as one of the bggest economies in the world, none of which would have been possible without the wealth accumlated during the slave trade and Empire exploitation. Even the Empire would have been impossible without the wealth generated from slavery.

So we are all born into a very privileged position, which as seen was founded very much in the blood of slavery. You should never feel guilt over this and would never even expect anyone to feel guilty. But we should recocginise how much it greatly advanced our nation tot he point it stands today.