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Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted?

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

The Inuit elders seem to think so...


The elders maintain the Sun doesn't rise were it used too, they have longer day light to hunt and the Sun is higher than it used to be and warms up quicker than before.

The elders who were interviewed across the north all said the same thing, their sky has changed.

The stars the Sun and the Moon have all changed affecting the temperature, even affecting the way the wind blows, it is becoming increasingly hard to predict the weather, something that is a must on the Arctic.

The elders all agree, they believe the Earth has shifted, wobbled or tilted to the North.



Couple of comments...


Rick
said...

I have told my friends the exact same thing and they look at me like a nut case. The sun normally covers half of my garden area in the fall and early spring because of the trees with full sun in the summer, but for the last two years no sun hits the garden during this time of year. Secondly: the sun normally set in the east of my home but has been setting more northeast and the winds have been coming out of the north whereas they normally come out of the southwest and northwest. Maybe people will pay attention to what I have been saying after reading this article




DM Steck
said...

This summer for the first time ever when the sun rose, it let sunshine in through the north windows of my home. My house sits directly North in the front and never at sunrise has the sun shine through the windows in Arizona in North facing windows. As well the moon spins like a dial in the sky and a full moon never seems to rise in the same location from month to month.




http://www.thebigwobble.org/2014/12/their-sky-has-changed-inuit-elders.html




I have also noticed that the sun is rising from a more northeasterly position and shines into my kitchen window in The morning (which is north facing).


Last edited by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:04 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:I just don't .

You don't accept it but you have no reason for this? That's ridiculous.

I have my reasons but i won't share them .

Ah, I see. They're embarrassing. That's OK, I know other people who think that God won't let the planet get overheated ...

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Post by Guest Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:13 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

I have my reasons but i won't share them .

Ah, I see. They're embarrassing. That's OK, I know other people who think that God won't let the planet get overheated ...

Not at all its just that you're not capable of being civilized with me and your reply proved this .

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:25 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

I have my reasons but i won't share them .

Ah, I see. They're embarrassing. That's OK, I know other people who think that God won't let the planet get overheated ...

Not at all its just that you're not capable of being civilized with me and your reply proved this .

Or, maybe I proved that it makes me angry when people won't explain why they support a position that threatens all life on this planet?

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Post by Tommy Monk Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:37 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Where is this elusive 'evidence' then dodge...!?


On this thread Tommy Blooper.

Show us this 'evidence' then dodge...?



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Post by Guest Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:


On this thread Tommy Blooper.

Show us this 'evidence' then dodge...?





lol you must be blind as I can see it.

lol


Korben posted it.

Shows and proves you ignore facts and evidence.

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Post by Tommy Monk Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:21 pm

The Inuit elders own eye witnesses accounts are all the evidence I need dodge!

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The Inuit elders own eye witnesses accounts are all the evidence I need dodge!

Does it not bother you at all that you're dead wrong and have been proven so?

Inuit have been collecting this data for centuries, and have been passing their knowledge to younger generations. A friend of mine, an elder of Nunatsiavut, recently wrote me a letter in which he told of a hunting trip last year with my uncle and what they had observed.

“We were coming from your grandmother’s ancestral home of Nutak after a hunting and gathering trip when we went ashore to collect bake apples (cloud berries). In the area we observed that a small pond was dry even in late-September during a very wet summer.”

My uncle knew from experience and knowledge passed on to him that this boggy pond never went dry and it was in fact always a good pond to hunt geese and black ducks. The permafrost layer under the pond had melted so water could no longer be retained - this phenomenon was being observed by other Inuit hunters through northern Labrador.

There is a lot to gain from our elders’ stories, and knowledge of our land and I respect them greatly. Not only did I gain knowledge from a scientific perspective, I also spent evenings at the park with elders who shared their stories about our land. They spoke of childhood memories and what it was like to grow up on the land and how weather affected their very existence and ability to survive. The elders pointed out on maps their traditional hunting grounds, and others pointed out how some of these routes have changed over time.

As a collective, the elders have noticed that there is not as much snowfall as there used to be. They say that we don’t get near the amount of snow that they did when they were young. The elders have also noted an increased number of polar bear sightings further south. This is very unusual, and likely attributable to the lack of floe ice during the summer months, leaving polar bears no other option than to move to the land where people live. Unusual ice conditions have also brought tragedy to our communities. We have lost lives because of less predictability in ice and snow cover. A few years ago, two experienced Inuit hunters lost their lives while traveling a route that was known to them.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Inuit-Climate-Change.html

I mean, if you're going to lie, at least don't put the lie in someone else's mouth, that's such a horrible thing to do ...

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Post by Tommy Monk Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:43 pm

I'm not making anything up...


A new warning has come to NASA from the Inuits. They are warning that the change in climate is not due to global warming but rather, because of the Earth shifting a bit.
The Inuits are local people that live in the Arctic regions of Canada, the United States and Greenland. They are excellent weather forecasters and so were their ancestors.Presently they are warning NASA that the cause of change in weather, earthquakes etc, are not due to global warming as the world thinks. They also report that the earth has shifted or "wobbled". "Their sky has changed!"
The elders declare that the sun rises at a different position now, not where it used to previously. They also have longer daylight to hunt now, the sun is much higher than earlier, and it gets warmer much quickly. Other elders across the north also confirmed the same thing about the sky changing when interviewed.
They also alleged that the position of sun, moon and stars have all changed causing changes in the temperature. This has also affected the wind and it is very difficult to predict the weather now and according to them predicting weather is necessary on Arctic.
All the elders confirmed that the Earth has shifted, wobbled or tilted toward the North.



http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/5453/20150406/global-climate-change-the-earth-has-shifted-say-inuit-elders.htm




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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:I'm not making anything up...


A new warning has come to NASA from the Inuits. They are warning that the change in climate is not due to global warming but rather, because of the Earth shifting a bit.
The Inuits are local people that live in the Arctic regions of Canada, the United  States and Greenland. They are excellent weather forecasters and so were their ancestors.Presently they are warning NASA that the cause of change in weather, earthquakes etc, are not due to global warming as the world thinks. They also report that the earth has shifted or "wobbled". "Their sky has changed!"
The elders declare that the sun rises at a different position now, not where it used to previously. They also have longer daylight to hunt now, the sun is much higher than earlier, and it gets warmer much quickly. Other elders across the north also confirmed the same thing about the sky changing when interviewed.
They also alleged that the position of sun, moon and stars have all changed causing changes in the temperature. This has also affected the wind and it is very difficult to predict the weather now and according to them predicting weather is necessary on Arctic.
All the elders confirmed that the Earth has shifted, wobbled or tilted toward the North.



http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/5453/20150406/global-climate-change-the-earth-has-shifted-say-inuit-elders.htm




And nothing about that source article seems dodgy to you? I've looked for anything to back this up and found nothing -- just other websites quoting from it.

Nature didn't report on it, Discover Magazine didn't, just about any even half-reputable science news site has nothing about Inuit elders warning that the Earth's axis has tilted to the point that they can notice it.

Now, let's apply a little logic. You watch the moon for a while tonight if you can, and report back how long it takes before you can notice that its position in the sky has changed. Spoiler alert -- you'll have to watch for a while.

The moon is travelling at over 2,000 miles per hour and it seems to poke across the sky. How in the world could a 10-centimeter change to the Earth's axis be noticeable to the naked eye?

It can't. It takes lasers to measure that amount of change.

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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:39 am

Changed from before...


They have seen the change from before to The now...






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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:54 am

Just to poke this shit pile a bit more:

Presently they are warning NASA that the cause of change in weather, earthquakes etc, are not due to global warming as the world thinks.

No real science reporter would write that "the world thinks" anything, much less that it thinks global warming is causing earthquakes, which aren't affected by temperature. Also, there should be a comma after "earthquakes" and a stop after "etc".

They also report that the earth has shifted or "wobbled". "Their sky has changed!"

Putting that in quotes means the Inuits said it directly, so are we to believe the Inuits told this reporter, "Their sky has changed!" No, if they said it, they'd say, "Our sky has changed!"

The elders declare that the sun rises at a different position now, not where it used to previously. They also have longer daylight to hunt now, the sun is much higher than earlier, and it gets warmer much quickly.

They have "longer daylight" and it gets warmer "much quickly"? Do they "love you long time" for "two dollah," too?

Other elders across the north also confirmed the same thing about the sky changing when interviewed.

Any real reporter who writes such a clunky, elementary-school-newspaper sentence should be fired.

They also alleged that the position of sun, moon and stars have all changed causing changes in the temperature.

WTF?! I mean, I know it's hotter a little after high noon, but I really don't think the moon, let alone the stars, could have any effect on temperatures. In fact, I know they couldn't. That's not science, that's just ... hideous stupidity.

This has also affected the wind and it is very difficult to predict the weather now and according to them predicting weather is necessary on Arctic.

As "necessary on Arctic" as snowshoes?

Jesus!

All the elders confirmed that the Earth has shifted, wobbled or tilted toward the North.

All of them. This reporter spoke to every last Inuit elder alive. And they all said that the Earth "moved northward" ... except that North doesn't exist in space. The Earth could no more move in a direction we use on Earth than I could grow inward. It's preposterous, Tommy, and you should be ashamed.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:59 pm

During the autumn/winter, I can see the sun rise and set out of my south facing window... it comes up far away in The distance over to The left (east), and sets far away in The distance to The right (west), following a quite low arc in The sky...

At The moment here it is clearly visible rising only through my northerly facing window and from the north east far away it the distance... I live in London and The sun should not be rising from the north east of where I live.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:17 am

Another morning watching the sun rise in The north east...






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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:30 pm

Can see with my own eyes...



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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:During the autumn/winter, I can see the sun rise and set out of my south facing window... it comes up far away in The distance over to The left (east), and sets far away in The distance to The right (west), following a quite low arc in The sky...

At The moment here it is clearly visible rising only through my northerly facing window and from the north east far away it the distance... I live in London and The sun should not be rising from the north east of where I live.

You are surely aware that the sun appears to follow a different path across the sky as the season change ....

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:11 pm

Clearly as that was what i was talking about.



But seems the point was totally lost on you...

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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Clearly as that was what i was talking about.



But seems the point was totally lost on you...

Yeah, the sun appears to take a higher arc during the summer and a lower one during the winter -- that's because the tilt of the world's axis points the Northern Hemisphere toward the sun during summer and away from the sun during winter. That's been the story since the Earth was formed. The fact that the sun appears in different places in different times of the year is completely normal and not a new phenomenon.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:35 pm

The sun should never be seen rising from the north east from London... which it is doing at the moment.


That's my point.


Do you know about the tropical of cancer?

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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The sun should never be seen rising from the north east from London... which it is doing at the moment.


That's my point.


Do you know about the tropical of cancer?

I know about the Tropic of Cancer, yes. I would suggest you ask your friends, neighbors and call the local news about this anomaly that apparently only you have noticed ... then maybe talk to a therapist depending on what you find out.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:37 pm

Ok... as I've said... the Inuit elders seem to have noticed... most 'modern' western people are so far removed from nature that they will have no idea...



Plenty of talk on the internet about it.



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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Ok... as I've said... the Inuit elders seem to have noticed... most 'modern' western people are so far removed from nature that they will have no idea...



Plenty of talk on the internet about it.



We talked about this before -- there's really only the one very poorly and unprofessionally written article, which you cited, and a lot of other sites that have copypasta'd it. There is a lot of information online about what Inuit elders actually have to say about climate change, including video interviews that I posted further up.

Your argument is laughable and dishonest, and you have provided no good evidence showing that the Earth's axis has tilted or that the "tilt" is responsible for climate change.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Fact remains, you shouldn't see the sun rise in the northeast here in London.

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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:28 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Fact remains, you shouldn't see the sun rise in the northeast here in London.

Are you sure you're actually in London?

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:42 am

What do you mean "am I sure I'm in London"...!!!???


Do you think I don't know where I live???


lol!



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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:46 am

Tommy Monk wrote:What do you mean "am I sure I'm in London"...!!!???


Do you think I don't know where I live???


lol!



I doubt you know what planet you're on ...

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:00 am



I've lived in London all my life!


Why do you question my location?



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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:06 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

I've lived in London all my life!


Why do you question my location?



Settle down, I'm making fun of you. You're helping quite a bit!

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:07 am

erm tommy......


the sun rises due east and sets due west on 2 days of the year, these being the spring and autumn equinox.

at mid summer the sun will rise well to the north of eastand set well to the north of west
at mid winter it will rise to the south of east and set to the south of west...

this is as a consequence of the axial tilt of the earth that gives us the seasons

quote
"Irrespective of where you are on the globe, the Sun will always rise exactly East and set exactly West on two days: March 21 and September 21 which are the two equinoxes. As to the second part, it is a little complicated:

Consider an arbitrary location on Earth (to make matters simple, consider a place in the northern hemisphere). Now, the celestial north pole (where the star Polaris resides) will be at an angle above the horizon and the angle is exactly equal to the latitude of the place. Imagine yourself facing Polaris (so that you are facing north exactly). Then East will be to your right and West will be to your left. Now, draw a circle which passes through East and West and whose plane is exactly perpendicular to the line joining you and Polaris. This circle marks the path of the Sun from dawn to dusk on the two equinoxes.

Now, draw a circle which is exactly parallel to the first circle, but which are separated from the first circle by 23.5 degrees at the zenith towards Polaris. This marks the path of the Sun during summer solstice and the place where this circle cuts the horizons will mark the place where the Sun will rise and set on the day of summer solstice. A similar circle which is separated from the first circle by 23.5 degrees at zenith towards south will mark the path of the Sun on winter solstice. Click here to see a diagram illustrating this. The diagram shows the path of the Sun on the equinoxes and solstices at a latitude of 40 degrees north (the image is from "The Cosmic Perspective" by Bennet et al.).

Thus, the Sun will rise north of true East and set north of true West during summer whereas during winter, the Sun will rise south of true East and set south of true West.

The exact location where the Sun will rise and set will vary widely depending on the place. Beyond the Arctic circle, there will be some times of the year where the Sun stays in the horizon for more than 24 hours."

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:24 am

I'm only posting the claim, asking the question and telling what I'm personally seeing...



During the autumn/winter/spring I can only see the sun rise/set and arc of travel out of my south facing windows.


At the moment I can see the sun rise in the northeast from my northerly facing windows and set out of my south facing windows if I look towards the west.



Given that I am in London and we are quite far north in the hemisphere, and The sun shouldn't be further north than the tropic of cancer, which is much further south, I would not expect to see the sun rising from the northeast of here.


There is much talk on the internet from people who are seeing the sun shining into their north facing windows now at this time of year when it never used to happen.


Also people saying that parts of their gardens that never used to get sunshine have been getting it in recent years.




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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:33 am

Tommy, you ought to check out this link -- it addresses the claim: http://podcast.sjrdesign.net/shownotes_024.php

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:40 am



I doubt that very much...

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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:42 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

I doubt that very much...

Suit yourself. Here's a sample:

Transcript

Claim: [Clip from Coast to Coast AM, October 20, 2011, Hour 2, at 34:39] (The Sun is moving and is not rising or setting where it was before.)

The problem with this kind of claim is that people are really not as observant as they think they are. I've heard people say, "I've watched the sun set from the same spot in my house every day for the last 20 years and it's only today that it's suddenly moved!" I have yet to see anyone actually back that up with evidence. Though, to be perfectly fair, if they could, then THAT would be the extraordinary event: EVERY day of the year, or at least for 6 months out of the year, the sun will rise or set in a different location on the horizon, then it will work its way back for the next 6 months.

Instead, it's much more likely that people pay passing attention to where the sun rises or sets, and happen to look several months later and see it's in a different spot.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:53 am

It's this constant change throughout the year that raises the element of doubt... as well as enforcing the idea of what is being seen must be 'right'.



But does not explain why here in London at the moment, the sun can only be seen rising from far off in the north east...!?


Either this is normal or it is not...



And given our position far north of the tropic of cancer, I would suggest that the sun should not be rising from that position but from much further in the east.



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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:02 am

Tommy, do you realize that tomorrow is the summer solstice? In the northern hemisphere, the sun rises from farther northeast on the horizon than it does for the rest of the year around the summer solstice.

You watch where it rises from over the next several weeks and I promise it will start to move south, back toward due east (which it'll hit on the fall equinox) and then start to move southeast along the horizon, reaching the furthest point at the winter solstice, and it will then seem to return toward due east after that point.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:08 am

Yes I know it rises at its highest point at this time but still shouldn't be actually rising FROM the north east!!!



From due east at this time of year and from my location is perfectly normal... but from far north east I don't think is normal at all!!!



This is what I'm talking about!!!




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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:38 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I know it rises at its highest point at this time but still shouldn't be actually rising FROM the north east!!!



From due east at this time of year and from my location is perfectly normal... but from far north east I don't think is normal at all!!!



This is what I'm talking about!!!




You're wrong, it should rise from due east at the equinoxes, far up the northeast at the summer solstice and far to the southeast at the winter solstice.

This is basic stuff, man.

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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:41 am

On the Summer Solstice, which occurs on June 21, the Sun is at its highest path through the sky and the day is the longest. Because the day is so long the Sun does not rise exactly in the east, but rises to the north of east and sets to the north of west allowing it to be in the sky for a longer period of time.

After the summer solstice the Sun follows a lower and lower path through the sky each day until it reaches the point where it is in the sky for exactly 12 hours again. This is the Fall Equinox. Just like the Spring Equinox, the Sun will rise exactly east and set exactly west on this day and everyone in the world will experience a 12 hour day.

After the Fall Equinox the Sun will continue to follow a lower and lower path through the sky and the days will grow shorter and shorter until it reaches its lowest path and then we are back at the Winter Solstice where we started.

http://solar.physics.montana.edu/ypop/Classroom/Lessons/Sundials/summer.html

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:06 am

The positions of London and Montana are different on world, latitude etc...



I'm just saying that from here in London, England, it does look like it is rising from far north east and not something I think is usual...



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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:22 am

Tommy, the principle holds true for the entire northern hemisphere. The southern too, it's just flipped. Australia's about to have its longest night of the year, while we're about to have our longest day.

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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:24 am

Look, here's a solar path chart for the city of London. It's a standard compass layout, and you can see that at this time of year, the sun rises from almost exactly northeast:

Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted? - Page 2 Sunpath+london

http://notesfromnoosphere.blogspot.com/2012/05/simple-geometry-of-sun-paths.html

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:52 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Tommy, the principle holds true for the entire northern hemisphere. The southern too, it's just flipped. Australia's about to have its longest night of the year, while we're about to have our longest day.




Yes I am well aware of this basic concept... the whole point of thread is talking about the possible slight change in this regular pattern over the last few years!




The basic principle still applies... the question is that it seems slightly off the norm...



Plus it does not appear to be in question that a slight shift can happen...



Here's one example..


http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/japanquake/earth20110314.html



In fact it is confirmation that it has happened there and confirmation that other events will likely of had their own effects on things...




The only question is how much change have events made!?



People are saying that they have noticed some changes...

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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:38 am

OK, one more try. You may know that Stonehenge marks the path of the sun; if you stand in the center and watch the sunrise on the summer solstice, the sun appears just over the Heel Stone:

Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted? - Page 2 Stonehenge_heel_stone

Now look at this aerial map of Stonehenge -- you'll find the Heel Stone in the northeast corner:

Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted? - Page 2 2009stonehengemap

William Stukeley was the first person to record this happening, way way back in the year 1720. So the sun has been rising in that same spot on that same day every year for nearly three centuries.

Given that the stones might very well have been deliberately laid out that way, it lends support to the idea that the summer solstice sunrise has been appearing in the same position over the England sky for at least the past 4,000 years.

Very soon there will be photos online from this year's summer solstice sunrise, and I'll post them here to show you that it's still coming up in the same place.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:19 am

I know where stonehenge is And I have been there quite a few times...

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Post by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:48 am



Can't see the sunrise properly when it's too cloudy...!

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:47 am

Here we go:



Everybody looking in the right direction as it comes up, and no exclamations of, "Bloody 'ell, it's in the wrong spot, by gum! Chippy-chippy, guv!"

Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted? - Page 2 10325224












lol!

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Post by veya_victaous Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:45 am

Ben versus TM
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Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

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Post by Tommy Monk Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:48 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Here we go:



Everybody looking in the right direction as it comes up, and no exclamations of, "Bloody 'ell, it's in the wrong spot, by gum! Chippy-chippy, guv!"

Has the earths axis/rotation really shifted? - Page 2 10325224



In the video, was that the 'right' place...?












lol!

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