do these people realise they are training to be in a crack regiment??

http://news.sky.com/story/1494294/too-much-paperwork-to-change-fatal-sas-hike

they had a hike to do, you can't cancel because of the weather!!!

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1494294/too-much-paperwork-to-change-fatal-sas-hike

they had a hike to do, you can't cancel because of the weather!!!

Good morning HF.

You'll have to wait for Didge to respond to your post as he'll have all the answers.

Shady wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1494294/too-much-paperwork-to-change-fatal-sas-hike

they had a hike to do, you can't cancel because of the weather!!!

Good morning HF.

You'll have to wait for Didge to respond to your post as he'll have all the answers.

@HF
well while there is point that 'elite' thing but really mission are planned to minimize these risks and it is a concern that paper work alone could lead to a less than ideal deployment.

Shady wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1494294/too-much-paperwork-to-change-fatal-sas-hike

they had a hike to do, you can't cancel because of the weather!!!

Good morning HF.

You'll have to wait for Didge to respond to your post as he'll have all the answers.

morning Shady, i'm sure he will...

veya_victaous wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good morning HF.

You'll have to wait for Didge to respond to your post as he'll have all the answers.

@HF
well while there is point that 'elite' thing but really mission are planned to minimize these risks and it is a concern that paper work alone could lead to a less than ideal deployment.

I am pretty sure the SAS very seldom deploy under ideal conditions, if the troopers weren't up to it they have to find out before they get others who are relying on them killed.

That is awful though - men collapsing and dying because of the heat. It's quite common to faint when it's very hot, but it's not usually fatal. I do wonder what on earth went so wrong.

Raggamuffin wrote:That is awful though - men collapsing and dying because of the heat. It's quite common to faint when it's very hot, but it's not usually fatal. I do wonder what on earth went so wrong.

nothing went wrong they clearly were not good enough for the regiment.

that is the idea of the training, if they wanted to join the boy scouts they should have..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:That is awful though - men collapsing and dying because of the heat. It's quite common to faint when it's very hot, but it's not usually fatal. I do wonder what on earth went so wrong.

nothing went wrong they clearly were not good enough for the regiment.

that is the idea of the training, if they wanted to join the boy scouts they should have..

They died HF - they didn't just sit down and complain about the heat.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
nothing went wrong they clearly were not good enough for the regiment.

that is the idea of the training, if they wanted to join the boy scouts they should have..

They died HF - they didn't just sit down and complain about the heat.

yep and if they had died during a real op they could have got a lot more people killed, if they couldn't handle the weather here what good would they have done in a hot, humid country.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They died HF - they didn't just sit down and complain about the heat.

yep and if they had died during a real op they could have got a lot more people killed, if they couldn't handle the weather here what good would they have done in a hot, humid country.

Well what are you saying? That it's a good job they died so the ones who couldn't handle the weather were weeded out?

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
yep and if they had died during a real op they could have got a lot more people killed, if they couldn't handle the weather here what good would they have done in a hot, humid country.

Well what are you saying? That it's a good job they died so the ones who couldn't handle the weather were weeded out?

it's unfortunate they died but the training standards are necessary, they would have died if they were allowed to join and put the lives of others at risk...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well what are you saying? That it's a good job they died so the ones who couldn't handle the weather were weeded out?

it's unfortunate they died but the training standards are necessary, they would have died if they were allowed to join and put the lives of others at risk...

If one had died, I could possibly understand this cavalier attitude, but three of them? If three scouts had died whilst camping, you wouldn't just say - well they were clearly unfit to be scouts then. I find this whole thing a bit suspicious.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
it's unfortunate they died but the training standards are necessary, they would have died if they were allowed to join and put the lives of others at risk...

If one had died, I could possibly understand this cavalier attitude, but three of them? If three scouts had died whilst camping, you wouldn't just say - well they were clearly unfit to be scouts then. I find this whole thing a bit suspicious.

scouts normally have adults looking after them..lol

If the training was any less than it is it would not be the worlds finest regiment, they screwed up and they died, there are no babysitters...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If one had died, I could possibly understand this cavalier attitude, but three of them? If three scouts had died whilst camping, you wouldn't just say - well they were clearly unfit to be scouts then. I find this whole thing a bit suspicious.

scouts normally have adults looking after them..lol

If the training was any less than it is it would not be the worlds finest regiment, they screwed up and they died, there are no babysitters...

The people who died screwed up?

The reason why they died was because the Army had not given them sufficient water. Doesn't matter is you are crack troops or not, if you are carrying 3 stone of equipment on the hottest day of the year, your body needs water to survive. You can be the toughest bloke in the world, your body will stop functioning if you become dehydrated. Medically, the army is useless and has been for a long time. OH used to run for them, we know that runners require huge amounts of protein for their bodies to function at top notch, instead of which the army told him he needed to be on a restricted calorie diet (I mean REALLY restricted) and it affects his health to this day.

Just because someone is in the Army, doesn't stop their body working the same as anyone elses, dehydrated they die, and the fact that the Army didn't take that into consideration just shows what a load of numbnuts they are. You want crack troops - you give them the tools to be crack troops, which in this case meant giving them water, not killing them with dehydration. Typical thick army mismanagement.

risingsun wrote:The reason why they died was because the Army had not given them sufficient water.   Doesn't matter is you are crack troops or not, if you are carrying 3 stone of equipment on the hottest day of the year, your body needs water to survive.   You can be the toughest bloke in the world, your body will stop functioning if you become dehydrated.   Medically, the army is useless and has been for a long time.   OH used to run for them, we know that runners require huge amounts of protein for their bodies to function at top notch, instead of which the army told him he needed to be on a restricted calorie diet (I mean REALLY restricted) and it affects his health to this day.  

Just because someone is in the Army, doesn't stop their body working the same as anyone elses, dehydrated they die, and the fact that the Army didn't take that into consideration just shows what a load of numbnuts they are.   You want crack troops - you give them the tools to be crack troops, which in this case meant giving them water, not killing them with dehydration.   Typical thick army mismanagement.

do you think they always carry sufficieant water or do think part of their training would include foraging, finding drinking water...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well what are you saying? That it's a good job they died so the ones who couldn't handle the weather were weeded out?

it's unfortunate they died but the training standards are necessary, they would have died if they were allowed to join and put the lives of others at risk...

That's a pretty extreme method of selection Heavenlyfatheragain

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

risingsun wrote:The reason why they died was because the Army had not given them sufficient water.   Doesn't matter is you are crack troops or not, if you are carrying 3 stone of equipment on the hottest day of the year, your body needs water to survive.   You can be the toughest bloke in the world, your body will stop functioning if you become dehydrated.   Medically, the army is useless and has been for a long time.   OH used to run for them, we know that runners require huge amounts of protein for their bodies to function at top notch, instead of which the army told him he needed to be on a restricted calorie diet (I mean REALLY restricted) and it affects his health to this day.  

Just because someone is in the Army, doesn't stop their body working the same as anyone elses, dehydrated they die, and the fact that the Army didn't take that into consideration just shows what a load of numbnuts they are.   You want crack troops - you give them the tools to be crack troops, which in this case meant giving them water, not killing them with dehydration.   Typical thick army mismanagement.

do you think they always carry sufficieant water or do think part of their training would include foraging, finding drinking water...

They were on a set, timed, march in an area that had no natural water supplies and had no time for foraging, you obviously didn't look at the inquest link in the link you posted:

Soldiers were expected to march at average of 3km/h for around 8h45m
The soldiers had to march 26.4km as crow flies, on one of the hottest days of 2013. Temps up to 27c and little wind
Each soldier taking part in selection wore a GPS tracker & 49lbs of kit, not including food and water
James Dunsby was an intelligence officer for the MoD. Served in Afghanistan with the Household Cavalry. He was 31 when he died.

The army is incredibly stupid about some things.

risingsun wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
do you think they always carry sufficieant water or do think part of their training would include foraging, finding drinking water...

They were on a set, timed, march in an area that had no natural water supplies and had no time for foraging, you obviously didn't look at the inquest link in the link you posted:

Soldiers were expected to march at average of 3km/h for around 8h45m
The soldiers had to march 26.4km as crow flies, on one of the hottest days of 2013. Temps up to 27c and little wind
Each soldier taking part in selection wore a GPS tracker & 49lbs of kit, not including food and water
James Dunsby was an intelligence officer for the MoD. Served in Afghanistan with the Household Cavalry. He was 31 when he died.

The army is incredibly stupid about some things.

they should have rationed their water properly, they would have been in much hotter countries than this that is for sure..

they failed their training, they could not make the standard required ...

Raggamuffin wrote:That is awful though - men collapsing and dying because of the heat. It's quite common to faint when it's very hot, but it's not usually fatal. I do wonder what on earth went so wrong.

Heat stroke is very serious and can become fatal very quickly

HF, don't you think you're being a bit harsh about these men? They didn't just "fail" their training, they actually died.

Raggamuffin wrote:HF, don't you think you're being a bit harsh about these men? They didn't just "fail" their training, they actually died.

well said he is being very hateful and judgemental ,remember these guys put there life`s on the line for us to help protect the country we live in and all the people in it regardless of race ,religion ,prejudice and this fool would not last one mile never mind the distance they had to cover in the same conditions

Raggamuffin wrote:HF, don't you think you're being a bit harsh about these men? They didn't just "fail" their training, they actually died.

it is very unfortunate but they have to endure nothing more than every other trooper have gone through..

they are not followed or vetted they should be good enough, if there was a failure it was not picking up they they were not good enough but if they were asked they would have wanted to prove they were good enough..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:HF, don't you think you're being a bit harsh about these men? They didn't just "fail" their training, they actually died.

it is very unfortunate but they have to endure nothing more than every other trooper have gone through..

they are not followed or vetted they should be good enough, if there was a failure it was not picking up they they were not good enough but if they were asked they would have wanted to prove they were good enough..

Well clearly they couldn't withstand the heat, or they didn't have enough water. It's a bit harsh to be so callous because of that. It's not a competition - they were on an exercise, and I don't suppose the idea was to see who managed to stay alive during it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
it is very unfortunate but they have to endure nothing more than every other trooper have gone through..

they are not followed or vetted they should be good enough, if there was a failure it was not picking up they they were not good enough but if they were asked they would have wanted to prove they were good enough..

Well clearly they couldn't withstand the heat, or they didn't have enough water. It's a bit harsh to be so callous because of that. It's not a competition - they were on an exercise, and I don't suppose the idea was to see who managed to stay alive during it.

but it is a competition to get in to the regiment, to show you can withstand the harshest conditions and treatment and still function.

they failed...

Don't be a complete prat, you either have enough water in hot conditions and live, or you don't have enough and die. Being tough won't stop your body working (or not working) exactly the same way every other human body works and dehydrating. That is exactly the stupid thinking of the army.

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:HF, don't you think you're being a bit harsh about these men? They didn't just "fail" their training, they actually died.

well said he is being very hateful and judgemental ,remember these guys put there life`s on the line for us to help protect the country we live in and all the people in it regardless of race ,religion ,prejudice and this fool would not last one mile never mind the distance they had to cover in the same conditions  

Indeed, even those who have passed succumb to conditions.
Take the case of Sergeant Vincent Phillips in the Bravo Two Zero Mission.

risingsun wrote:Don't be a complete prat, you either have enough water in hot conditions and live, or you don't have enough and die.  Being tough won't stop your body working (or not working) exactly the same way every other human body works and dehydrating.  That is exactly the stupid thinking of the army.

they would have had to either limit their water or find means to purify other available water, all part of the test but even in summer this country is not that harsh.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

risingsun wrote:Don't be a complete prat, you either have enough water in hot conditions and live, or you don't have enough and die.  Being tough won't stop your body working (or not working) exactly the same way every other human body works and dehydrating.  That is exactly the stupid thinking of the army.

they would have had to either limit their water or find means to purify other available water, all part of the test but even in summer this country is not that harsh.

Shut up you twat, there was no other available water and they had not been allowed time to find any. The army messed up, end of, and killed them.

risingsun wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
they would have had to either limit their water or find means to purify other available water, all part of the test but even in summer this country is not that harsh.

Shut up you twat, there was no other available water and they had not been allowed time to find any.  The army messed up, end of, and killed them.

the men failed, end of, of course they had time if they made it, they could have rationed their drinks, they just were not good enoug..

end of..

The most impor­tant sur­vival tech­nique in this instance is to remem­ber to avoid unnec­es­sary exer­tion. Find­ing shade, drink­ing until you are rea­son­ably hydrated (clear-ish urine), and reserv­ing phys­i­cal exer­tion for night hours are the most effec­tive ways of staving off dehy­dra­tion and heat stroke. Rationing water while run­ning around in the heat is often more dan­ger­ous than lay­ing low and hydrat­ing as much as possible.

Please keep going HF, because you are showing yourself up as being a total ignoramus with every post you make.

A bit like the Army.

I really am fed up because Didge hasn't commented on this thread......DAMN!

Shady wrote:I really am fed up because Didge hasn't commented on this thread......DAMN!

Best you go to specsavers lol

Twice in the matter of minutes you have looked a dick.

I suggest you read back.

You really are obessesed with me hun.

Belatucadros wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
well said he is being very hateful and judgemental ,remember these guys put there life`s on the line for us to help protect the country we live in and all the people in it regardless of race ,religion ,prejudice and this fool would not last one mile never mind the distance they had to cover in the same conditions  

Indeed, even those who have passed succumb to conditions.
Take the case of Sergeant Vincent Phillips in the Bravo Two Zero Mission.

Here you go Shody.

Belatucadros wrote:

Shady wrote:I really am fed up because Didge hasn't commented on this thread......DAMN!

Best you go to specsavers lol

Twice in the matter of minutes you have looked a dick.

I suggest you read back.

You really are obessesed with me hun.

Just seen it thank you.......Is that it? Is that all you've got to say?....Come on,you can do better than that.

Come on......enthrall me with your acumen.

Shady wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Best you go to specsavers lol

Twice in the matter of minutes you have looked a dick.

I suggest you read back.

You really are obessesed with me hun.

Just seen it thank you.......Is that it? Is that all you've got to say?....Come on,you can do better than that.

Come on......enthrall me with your acumen.

Nah, rather see you continue to look a muppet to be honest.



Anyway, many here have made good points, why not stop being a wally and debate the points, instead of your worrying obsession with me.

On that I wish you luck.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

risingsun wrote:

Shut up you twat, there was no other available water and they had not been allowed time to find any.  The army messed up, end of, and killed them.

the men failed, end of, of course they had time if they made it, they could have rationed their drinks, they just were not good enoug..

end of..

That's just so harsh HF.

Belatucadros wrote:

Shady wrote:

Just seen it thank you.......Is that it? Is that all you've got to say?....Come on,you can do better than that.

Come on......enthrall me with your acumen.

Nah, rather see you continue to look a muppet to be honest.



Anyway, many here have made good points, why not stop being a wally and debate the points, instead of your worrying obsession with me.

On that I wish you luck.

Oh don't be like that.C'mon......you must have an.......informed opinion.Share it with us.

You know so much about everything else so why hold back on this subject?

What can you tell us about hot weather survival Didge?

Survive to fight.Fight to survive.

What should the three guys have done to stay alive Didge?

Shady wrote:What can you tell us about hot weather survival Didge?

Survive to fight.Fight to survive.

What should the three guys have done to stay alive Didge?

Not much to say really, you would know more about this than I, being as you have done such endurance training.
Hence why I have made very little comments on this.
As a personal view surely more water should have been provided for.
You need to learn I post mainly on things I do know about.
I would take those who have served as best placed to give advice on this.

Belatucadros wrote:

Shady wrote:What can you tell us about hot weather survival Didge?

Survive to fight.Fight to survive.

What should the three guys have done to stay alive Didge?

Not much to say really, you would know more about this than I, being as you have done such endurance training.
Hence why I have made very little comments on this.
As a personal view surely more water should have been provided for.
You need to learn I post mainly on things I do know about.
I would take those who have served as best placed to give advice on this.

So it took you all that time to come up with such a crap answer........Boring.

It took me about 30 seconds to think up a reply to you, when I came back online.
So again you are just acting the clown I see shady.
I guess my answer left you dumb founded again lol

Shady wrote:What can you tell us about hot weather survival Didge?

Survive to fight.Fight to survive.

What should the three guys have done to stay alive Didge?

they are many things they could have done. but they really did not have the choice other than refusing to take part in the exercise and that would bring a new set of problems

i have done 3 survival courses two sea survival and one land survival
i am also a bit of a survivalist in some ways

So what do you what to know

korban dallas wrote:

Shady wrote:What can you tell us about hot weather survival Didge?

Survive to fight.Fight to survive.

What should the three guys have done to stay alive Didge?

they are many things they could have done. but they really did not have the choice other than refusing to take part in the exercise and that would bring a new set of problems

i have done 3 survival courses two sea survival and one land survival
i am also a bit of a survivalist in some ways

So what do you what to know
 

Hi Korben

My view, with the temperatures rising each year, would it not be best to change the selection courses to Autumn or spring?

Belatucadros wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
they are many things they could have done. but they really did not have the choice other than refusing to take part in the exercise and that would bring a new set of problems

i have done 3 survival courses two sea survival and one land survival
i am also a bit of a survivalist in some ways

So what do you what to know
 

Hi Korben

My view, with the temperatures rising each year, would it not be best to change the selection courses to Autumn or spring?

Hey

Days such as it was are pretty rare in this country
what needs to happen is more consideration given to the conditions on the he day i was on many exercises that where called of or changed last minute because of weather tp much paper work is a redundant excuse ,how much more paperwork has the death of these guys generated

We generally have a heatwave at some point every summer these days. I don't like them at all.

maybe they should have been allowed too use the local bus roots, that would have made it easier for them...
Who quoted andy mcblab...lol

well HF is the worst Military commander here..
logistics and supplies win wars
put 2 even troops against each other and that will normally be the deciding factor.


Although 27C is a cool summers day in Sydney not really Hot at all I have to question why these guys are even in for selection

veya_victaous wrote:well HF is the worst Military commander here..
logistics and supplies win wars
put 2 even troops against each other and that will normally be the deciding factor.


Although 27C is a cool summers day in Sydney not really Hot at all  I have to question why these guys are even in for selection

Certain regiments work with what they are supplied and what they can forage...

if they failed because of the heat they should never have been considered...

Belatucadros wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
they are many things they could have done. but they really did not have the choice other than refusing to take part in the exercise and that would bring a new set of problems

i have done 3 survival courses two sea survival and one land survival
i am also a bit of a survivalist in some ways

So what do you what to know
 

Hi Korben

My view, with the temperatures rising each year, would it not be best to change the selection courses to Autumn or spring?

Yeah.Then they can put pink ear muffs & mittens on you fucking prat.