British Genocide in Tasmania

The British colonial policy towards the indigenous people of Tasmania in the first part of the 19th century amounted to ethnic cleansing, a part of its history that Britain still hasn’t confronted, argues Tom Lawson. The question of whether indigenous Australians were victims of genocide has caused great angst in Australian politics and culture. Wide-ranging public debates – known as the History Wars – took place throughout the country in the 1990s and early 2000s about the historical treatment of indigenous peoples, which centred on whether that treatment amounted to genocide and, crucially, what that would mean for current community relations. In Britain such debates were viewed with curiosity, a society on the other side of the world going through a process of coming to terms with its past, as if that was somehow nothing to do with us. Yet perhaps the clearest case of genocide in Australian history, which saw the destruction of the vast majority of indigenous peoples in what the British called Van Diemen’s Land (today the island state of Tasmania), largely occurred between 1804 and 1876, before that colony was awarded self-government and when it was still under direct control from London. In fact, in 1830 the Secretary of State for the Colonies, George Murray, warned the colonial government from Downing Street that, if it was revealed that the indigenous peoples of Van Diemen’s Land had been deliberately targeted for extermination, then it would leave an ‘indelible stain’ upon the reputation of the British Empire. Yet the indigenous islanders were deliberately targeted for ‘extirpation’, to use the words of the day, with the full approval of the British government. Furthermore, the violence against them was carried out by British men and reported in British newspapers, art exhibitions and even in children’s comics. The remains of the victims were exhibited to the public in British museums. What took place in Tasmania was a British genocide.


http://www.historytoday.com/tom-lawson/british-genocide-tasmania

and so because of that historical wrong

doubtless some would say we should bring all the aborignals over here and place them at the front of the queue for everything......

Or failing that we should perhaps remove a few billion from our economy and give it to their descendants, plunge ourself into an angst driven pit of recession (in which only mr "average" will suffer) and beat our collective sackclothed breasts in shame????

or what?

darknessss wrote:and so because of that historical wrong

doubtless some would say we should bring all the aborignals over here and place them at the front of the queue for everything......

Or failing that we should perhaps remove a few billion from our economy and give it to their descendants, plunge ourself into an angst driven pit of recession (in which only mr "average" will suffer) and beat our collective sackclothed breasts in shame????

or what?

Nothing of the sort on bring all aboriginals over, I doubt they would want to to leave their ancestral home. Sadly they still do not have self determination and it is events in history like this that should never be forgotten for the wrongs done. All the past events of the British Empire are very much connected to how this society gained from the persecution and discrimination of others, through taking from others. The fact is again so any countries were affected and robbed of their wealth and people worked and treated as near slaves to further enrich this nation, all of which brought about the the advanced society we have today. This nation advanced off the wealth of other nations and through this wealth and the innovations of a view others brought about being able to afford schools, health care, industries etc, with a continuous cycle of the next generation being more advantaged than the next.

Agreed and now there are those who would destroy all that in their efforts to "give back".

indeed they are SO intent on this that they would (and have) seen my pension pot raided, and would be content to see the state pension (not to mention anything else) crippled in a vainglorious and pig headed desire to give it all away in some sort of left wing "road to damascus" moment.

darknessss wrote:Agreed and now there are those who would destroy all that in their efforts to "give back".

indeed they are SO intent on this that they would (and have) seen my pension pot raided, and would be content to see the state pension (not to mention anything else) crippled in a vainglorious and pig headed desire to give it all away in some sort of left wing "road to damascus" moment.

Is it being destroyed though Victor, or is the life you once knew just changing for the better for many others or for you individually for the worse? As well as you have rightly earned what is in your pension pot, it is still your advantaged position from birth that has given you chance to excel in your career, with excellent schools. Wealth enabled there to be schools a plenty for the nation. The one thing this nation can afford and pay more for, is the people who have worked their lives paying into the system. On this more than anything they should be far better treated and far better rewarded for the years they have given. No party has ever really truly rewarded the elderly in this country and is something I find wrong within all of them.

Didge what do you mean by self determination?
it doesn't make sense, they are forced to vote like everyone else

they have as much self determination as any other group in Australia, Legally they actually have slightly more particularly where they have native title claims.

and Aboriginals are probably the most 'multi-ethnic' peoples, as in if some in more than 1/16 Aboriginal they can legally claim that to get some of the aboriginal specific benefits which include lots of help for education etc.
And there are a lot of part Aboriginals part Maori/Pacific Islander not just part Aboriginal and part Anglo

Plus most of the British migrants were the convicts that were treated little better than slaves, part of the reason aboriginals were never enslaved is probably because free labor was already available in excess.

Particularly since Martin Luther King expressed his dream.. Australia has taken his dream as their own far more than the USA has. Every time the people have been given a chance to vote to fix a wrong we have voted to do so, one of the biggest issues is still the ignorance due to remoteness of some issues. But you have to remember even these remote communities are a minority of aboriginals, the majority are very much a part of mainstream modern Australia. there are still issues but they are no longer 'blockages' it is simply time now with each generation getting more used to the modern systems and making the most of education. we now have an issue with some Anglo families where education has not been valued for generations making it hard to get kids to learn when the parents don't care (I believe there is the same in some communities in England)

You might find this interesting a very good article on a less known 'Champion of equality'

This is the story of the Gurindji Strike! The hero; Aboriginal man Vincent Lingiari as he led the Gurindji, Ngarinman, Bilinara, Warlpiri and Mudbara peoples on a long, courageous battle for justice.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-26/hodgson-from-little-things-big-things-grow/2855942

For one, none of your reply has anything to do with the ethnic cleansing and genocide that occurred.
Two Self determination is is where a person a nation of people is able to govern their own lives, of which the aboriginals have been constantly denied. What you are saying is that you think they are benefited by "your" ways and have completely destroyed in many cases their way of life. Its not up to you to decide their way of life, or  for the descendents of colonials or so called convicts who in many cases were starving people convicted for petty theft back in the UK. In other words you are denying them their self determination and deciding for them their lives. A way of life that has gone on for more than 50,000 years. Most aboriginals were treated just as other subjected people by the British peoples who emigrated based on simple poor racism and Christian ideals.

The material “simplicity” of Indigenous culture allowed the British government to refuse to recognise prior Aboriginal ownership and sovereignty, contrary to practice in most colonies. Australia was declared to be terra nullius (land legally owned by no one), an unencumbered wilderness able to be claimed by the British Crown. This strategy enabled the British to class their occupation as peaceful settlement rather than invasion. Unlike the British colonies in North America, southern Africa, India and New Zealand, in Australia there were no treaties or agreements with Indigenous leaders. No compensation or legal recognition of Indigenous property rights was made.

I agree with the OP
Cause genocide did occur in Tasmania there are only half caste or less aboriginals there now.. and the native title laws have been created now, the link i posted contains the story of Vincent Lingiari (Aboriginal Gandhi) and when PM Gough Whitlam ended the Evil British Lord Vestey's claim to the land and gave the Gurindji people legal title to their land.



My thing is the Self determination
because they can govern their lives as much as i can?
I think the WAY people live in the modern world is the only way you are going to live on the east coast. Can you live in London living the Pagan-Celtic hunter gather life style???
I didn't decide it Queen Victoria did! Everyone still suffers from it today we all have to live with the world that is left today.
Then which part do they decide for??? Here is the BIG problem with most British thinking on the subject Most aboriginals ARE white now... Statically they are the largest proportion of aboriginals have less than a quarter aboriginal blood. unlike Africans the dark skin of the aboriginal is a regressive gene and even half caste can be fair. really most aboriginals in Sydney are part caste from parents that are both part caste too, additional factors include they both may be Aboriginals but from different Aboriginal nations which then have completely separate lands so where does the 'self' lie? people belong to more than one group.

and desert aboriginal (that are the really black ones) can live however they want (largely have successful native title claims that give them ownership of the land) they do get screwed by International business but the rest of Australia does try and do our best to prevent them being ripped off.


The thing is YOU are being unconsciously racist, you want aboriginals to be the simple naive tribal people but you forget if they are given the same education as the rest of us, Like they have been my entire life time, they are not simple naive minds anymore they understand medicine or science like anyone else and yes knowing these things exist means yes they do want them, they want smartphones not boomerangs, 4 times more aboriginals have PHDs in my generation than my parents, the future of All Australians is together not separate.

The number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students completing doctoral degrees has quadrupled in the past two decades and a new generation is preparing to influence the institutions of knowledge in Australia.

Dr Sana Mary Nakata, 30, whose father, Martin Nakata, was the first Torres Strait Islander to complete a PhD, finished her doctorate in 2012 and is now teaching political theory at Melbourne University. Her goals in doing a PhD were twofold: ''To establish myself as one of this country's first indigenous political theorists - first as a political theorist and an indigenous political theorist second,'' Dr Nakata says.

''Indigenous people can make great contributions off the sporting field. I would like the intellectual potential and contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people recognised.''

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/rise-of-aboriginal-phds-heralds-a-change-in-culture-20140316-34vqm.html

So me calling for self determination of aboriginals is racist?

Sorry, when you start to spout bollocks and invent things that have no validity, because your argument has no validity, it ceases to be a debate and you just try to stir up trouble Veya by looking for a fight. There is nothing racist in self determination of a group of people of which they should be able to decide for themselves. I want they to have the rights to decide for themselves, ownership of lands which is theirs and yet it is you trying to decide their lives and fate for them. In other words you are trying to be their masters  (Takers) by deciding what you think is best for them and not asking them what is best for them. I have made no claim on aboriginals of mixed ethnicity, you have now brought this in where no such proclamation was made on my part. Again if those of mixed ethnicity or even some aboriginals want to become a part of western ideals and beliefs that is their choosing and again self determination just as it should be for those who wish to keep to their traditions and beliefs, as long as they do not conflict with the well being and equality of others. This has nothing to do with skin colour and it is you that is presenting an argument yourself, not I. The fact is again it is "takers" just like you and  just like the original British colonists trying to decide the fate and lives of others for them. I do not want Aboriginals to be anything myself  other than they themselves deciding for themselves their livelihood through self determination. Where again as long as it does not conflict with the well being and equality of others.

You have absolutely no comprehension what racism is.

Debate over and not going to waste my time with such drivel and inane unfounded accusations of racism.

what is racist is that you think they are SEPARATE they are NOT.
Aboriginal Australian Anglo Australian Asian Australian make no difference any more
AS MANY Australians are multiple ethnic identities.
WE DO NOT HAVE SEGREGATION!!!

They Vote JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
SO actually What are you saying? that Aboriginal people should be Segregated from non aboriginals? That is Racist Didge! Much like victor said there are some fools that are so caught up in there make believe crusade they don't realize they are taking a huge step backwards.

Just answer one question WHO IS THEY?
does Wolf get included as he has some Aboriginal blood even though he is visibly white been raised in western society and no more connected to Aboriginal culture than I am. Or because he has some non aboriginal blood is he excluded?

I told you the debate is over because you have utterly no concept what racism is and allowing people to have self determination whether that be through western concepts or their own , is self determination. As it is they who decide, not you. I never claimed they are one people or not ethnic groups, but they all share similar cultures and beliefs all of which is lost on you it seems. This is you again deciding the fate of Aboriginals, who you are now deciding they are one people with Australians. Again you are a "taker" deciding the fate of others as did you ever ask if they wanted to be part of a Western style Australia or their own Australian culture? It has nothing to do with segregation but allow people self determination. You are enforcing them to take on your western ideals and systems, which is very much discrimination and denying them their beliefs.
Clearly not it seems and it is you dictating who they should be as a people. That is not self determination, they get to decide who they are as a people, not you.

you are taking a VERY complex issue and trying to make a single sentence slogan which just makes you look like a fool.

You also seem to think that as an Australian I see another Australians as different, they are MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN!!!! So yeah when you treat them like they are not my countrymen, that we should be segregated, that we Don't both want success for our nation... YES that is quite frankly VERY Annoying.

Also you did exactly what Sassy did an treated them like they were STILL the loin cloth wearing tribesmen NOT Doctors Lawyers and Politicians as well and every other profession.. the Majority are NOT in the Desert they are in the Cities living the same life with the same concerns/desires as me.

Here we go now to childish insults to unfounded claims of racism also.
Again you deciding their fate and what they should be, thus denying them self determination.
You are a "taker" as did you ask if they wanted to be a part of your western culture?
No.
Those who want to become part of that western society can do so, that is their choice, but you are forcing the others also to choose a western culture and denying them self determination.  Both ideals can share the same lands or have lands for themselves. As long as the well being and equality of people is not effected, you should not take away their rights to continue their cultures.

Debate over

Belatucadros wrote:I told you the debate is over because you have utterly no concept what racism is and allowing people to have self determination whether that be through western concepts or their own , is self determination. As it is they who decide, not you. I never claimed they are one people or not ethnic groups, (yes but you seem to miss they fact they are also PART EUROPEANS and Part Asian and Part Pacific Islander but they all share similar cultures and beliefs NO THEY DO NOT all of which is lost on you it seems seriously you are saying to probably the only person you have ever meet that claims to worship the rainbow serpent, when even many aboriginals are Christians . This is you again deciding the fate of Aboriginals, that was Queen Victoria!!!! who you are now deciding they are one people with Australians. (hmmm they are to be Aussie you just have to live in Australia they live in Australia Again you are a "taker" deciding the fate of others as did you ever ask if they wanted to be part of a Western style Australia or their own Australian culture? LOLZ what a knob you are HAVE YOU INVENTED A TIME MACHINE to stop Queen Victoria
Clearly not it seems and it is you dictating who they should be as a people. that was Queen Victoria!!!! by your definition NO Anglo Aussies has self determination either!!! That is not self determination, they get to decide who they are as a people, not you.

First YOU don't tell me Shit!! if it is over WHY did you reply?


Who is THEY??
until you answer there never was a debate.
Just another fool thinking they are not racist because there intentions were good regardless of how ignorant they actually are on the subject.

AND now it is YOU that think aboriginals haven't largely accepted what is. Most aboriginals Want to go FORWARD, they understand the Kangaroos dreaming they literally have a religious fable on HOW people should deal with the situation... They are not all that similar either, there was more variance amongst aboriginals than Europeans at the time.

Belatucadros wrote:Here we go now to childish insults to unfounded claims of racism also.
Again you deciding their fate and what they should be, thus denying them self determination.
You are a "taker" as did you ask if they wanted to be a part of your western culture?
No.
Those who want to become part of that western society can do so,that happened a long time ago they are PART OF WESTERN SOCIETY Now Blacktown(my home) was established in after WW1 for that purpose that is their choice, but you are forcing the others also to choose a western culture and denying them self determination.  Both ideals can share the same lands (lolz, yeah abrahamist have been real good at that in the past) or have lands for themselves (i thought you supported free migration ) . As long as the well being and equality of people is not effected, you should not take away their rights to continue their cultures. Yeah because worshiping the rainbow serpent and defending it ruthlessly against Abrahamist and Atheist is taking away their culture

NO they cannot you cannot go back to world on non-ownership once things are owned.
Only Desert Aboriginals Have the option and they can use it if they wish. they largely do live the traditional lifestyle and NO ONE want to change that BUT the UN
It is Not an option for he saltwater people or the plains people or the river people that lost their land over 100 years ago under British rule. that have had their old cultures destroyed because there old culture was the forests and reefs and rivers that ARE GONE NOW!
Debate over
No debate ever occurred just me educating someone that had no clue about the complexity or current state of the situation

WE ARE ALREADY ONE PEOPLE WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SEGREGATE US... the more time that passes the more we become one people

This is why your argument is groundless and is in fact denying people their own self determination.
The concept of an Australian people isa modern invented concept to describe a group of peope and a nation brought about by colonialists.

The Scottish people are British people.
The Aborigianals are an Australian people.

The Scottish people want self determination and to seperate from the British people and become only Scottish people. The Scotish people want to vote for independence so they can have self determination and govern themselves.
The Aboriginals people want self determination and to seperate from the Australian people and become only Aboriginal people. The Aboriginal people want to vote for independence so they can have self determination and govern themselves. Of which there is plenty of land they have lived on for 50,000 years.

The Scottish people are made up of different ethnic groups but want to identify as a Scottish peope through their culture and beliefs. 
The Aboriginal people are made up of different ethnic groups but want to identify as an Aboriginal peope through their culture and beliefs. 

If that is racism then youi have utterly no concept of what racism is, which is around an superiority towards another racial group through discrmination. Which by denying these people who want to have self determination to govern themselves is thus claiming their beliefs and cultures to be inferior to the Australian one. One that was also very much formed from Christian ideals in the beginning. Which is what many western cultures have been based on. To deny them this based off as you are doing a superior culture, is racism full stop. Again as long as their society does not conflict with the well being and equality of people and even allows for Australian to live among them with their own cultures and beliefs, there is no reason to deny them self determination.

If anything you have argued to deny Scottish independence and seperation from the British people as being racist. That is what you fail to grasp as you are claiming now Scottish people are racist because they want to seperate from a British identity and become independent to govern themselves.

You are thus claiming the Scottish people who want independce are racist.
Good luck talling the Scottish posters on here that they are racist as you clearly are suggesting they are by wanting self determination.

Now that is what you call checkmate.

Belatucadros wrote:This is why your argument is groundless and is in fact denying people their own self determination.
The concept of an Australian people isa modern invented concept to describe a group of peope and a nation brought about by colonialists.

The Scottish people are British people.
The Aborigianals are an Australian people.

The Scottish people want self determination and to seperate from the British people and become only Scottish people. The Scotish people want to vote for independence so they can have self determination and govern themselves.
The Aboriginals people want self determination and to seperate from the Australian people and become only Aboriginal people. The Aboriginal people want to vote for independence so they can have self determination and govern themselves. Of which there is plenty of land they have lived on for 50,000 years.

The Scottish people are made up of different ethnic groups but want to identify as a Scottish peope through their culture and beliefs. 
The Aboriginal people are made up of different ethnic groups but want to identify as an Aboriginal peope through their culture and beliefs. 

If that is racism then youi have utterly no concept of what racism is, which is around an superiority towards another racial group through discrmination. Which by denying these people who want to have self determination to govern themselves is thus claiming their beliefs and cultures to be inferior to the Australian one. One that was also very much formed from Christian ideals in the beginning. Which is what many western cultures have been based on. To deny them this based off as you are doing a superior culture, is racism full stop. Again as long as their society does not conflict with the well being and equality of people and even allows for Australian to live among them with their own cultures and beliefs, there is no reason to deny them self determination.

If anything you have argued to deny Scottish independence and seperation from the British people as being racist. That is what you fail to grasp as you are claiming now Scottish people are racist because they want to seperate from a British identity and become independent to govern themselves.

You are thus claiming the Scottish people who want independce are racist.
Good luck talling the Scottish posters on here that they are racist as you clearly are suggesting they are by wanting self determination.

Now that is what you call checkmate.

And to further add to my point that aboriginals certainly do want self determination:


http://world.time.com/2013/05/30/australias-aborigines-launch-a-bold-legal-push-for-independence/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_Sovereignty


http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/selfdetermination/#axzz3bTy31lqi



You should be supporting them Veya and not denying them their rights of self determination.
Like I said the Scottish may also be British like the Aboriginals may also be Australian, but they have a right to their own nations


.

Scotland is geographically separate. And a black Scot would be Scottish pretty sure anyone born in Scotland is legally Scottish.
Aboriginals live with the rest of us not separate, there geographic area that identifies as aboriginal. You are trying to separate a group based on genetic ancestry BUT we are interbred to the point where such ideas are stupid.
Aboriginals Can identify as Aboriginal Australian and if they have move than 6.25% aboriginal genes they can claim benefits for being aboriginal. This is the part you miss Aboriginal Australians may be less than 10% aboriginal genetic ancestry, and still be aboriginal. MOST aboriginals are part caste.

Everyone in Australia Has to vote
We have no separate groups, it is Unconstitutional as we are all equals.

AND
Again YES your article talk about 1 of 27 tribes that want independence (which is say it has next to 0 chance of getting under UN rules) and that is OUT OF 200 tribes
that means 173 tribes like being part of new Australia. the Majority.

And they already have been given the land back quote from you article

One of many abandoned cars sits on the side of a dirt highway deep inside the Murrawarri nation, in the 16,000-hectare property of Murrawarri People's Council leader Fred Hooper, a.k.a. King Fred

that is close to the size of small European nations

veya_victaous wrote:Scotland is geographically separate. And a black Scot would be Scottish pretty sure anyone born in Scotland is legally Scottish.

Aboriginals live with the rest of us not separate, there geographic area that identifies as aboriginal. You are trying to separate a group based on genetic ancestry BUT we are interbred to the point where such ideas are stupid.
Aboriginals Can identify as Aboriginal Australian and if they have move than 6.25% aboriginal genes they can claim benefits for being aboriginal.  This is the part you miss Aboriginal Australians may be less than 10% aboriginal genetic ancestry, and still be aboriginal. MOST aboriginals are part caste.

Everyone in Australia Has to vote
We have no separate groups, it is Unconstitutional as we are all equals.  

AND
Again YES your article talk about 1 of 27 tribes that want independence (which is say it has next to 0 chance of getting under UN rules) and that is OUT OF 200 tribes
that means 173 tribes like being part of new Australia. the Majority.

And they already have been given the land back quote from you article

One of many abandoned cars sits on the side of a dirt highway deep inside the Murrawarri nation, in the 16,000-hectare property of Murrawarri People's Council leader Fred Hooper, a.k.a. King Fred

that is close to the size of small European nations

Unbelievable and you are still denying them self determination and they have every right to a nation, blimey Australia is massive and what this really boils down to in mineral and fuel resources in the ground why they are being denied. Poor argument based on Geography. Many nations have been formed where all have become geographically separate based on the majority groups of people within areas of lands. Where you will find the same with aboriginals in very isolated places which can easily become independent. So You seem to be arguing off where it is located at the top of the Island, so what, that means nothing. Australia is vastly bigger than the UK and can easily have an independent Scotland separate from being British. Again the aboriginals are made up also of many ethnic groups and I very much doubt anyone not aboriginal would want to live within their culture, however I sure this could be accommodated. So you are just giving poor arguments to deny self determination . It i the exact same self determination that the Scots want and hence my surprise you are against this. As seen your methodology is flawed due to other nations have a right to self determination, where I even back the Palestinians to the this free from Hamas of course with democratic elections. Again as long as their independence does not effect the well being and equality of others, they have a right to self determination. There is no argument you have given or can give to deny this. It does not matter if you have interbred, all humans have interbred, so that is just a silly argument as we all descend from Africa. Race is not genetic you know, all you can tell is what areas people have live in the past and map these genes back in the past to where people lived.  So your gene argument is also absurd, because many Scottish people will also have mixed ethnicity. They are 100% aboriginal based on their culture and beliefs, those that want this self determination. Seriously, now who is making the absurd racial argument that biological is absurd to argue off. Imagine trying to use that same argument as the Scot. "That they live among the British people and are not separate" Both the Scottish and Aboriginals want to be separate of that and what is even worse is you are trying to decide their lives for them. That is not democracy or someone who believes in self determination

I am stunned you would not support self determination.
Anyway you have no argument to deny them self determination or a referendum. As you are doing so off what you want, and not what they want.

Anyway the debate is done as its clear you will not back self determination for them, yet  would no doubt back the Scots to have self determination


Night and have a good day Veya, I am have said my peace on this and will say no more

You still haven't said who is THEM??
Cause you are still being a simplistic AND racist, people are undeniably of where they are born (you can claim extras but cannot be denied your birth place), everyone born in Australia has equal right to determine the fate of Australia.
I don't support Tommy Monks ideas that because you grand parents are from somewhere you have more claim to it than someone else born there. You have argued with TM before for this exact thing in the UK, by your logic you need to hand over compensation to TM and TM has a right to self determination that Means YOU don't get a say. really to be fair the UK should revert back to the Celts so ONLY welsh and Scots can vote on UK issues, right to self determination they had the land first before Anglos came.

You again Still being ignorant saying most aboriginals live out in whoop whoop when Most live in the city/suburbia. So now what you are going to deny all the aboriginals that have assimilated to varying degrees their status as aboriginal?? If an aboriginal has studied and is now a doctor that lives in a million dollar house You are not going to count them as aboriginal, or if there tribe votes to be separate do they have to leave and go back to the tribal lands and live in loin clothes again???
The argument is stupid for the majority, there are tiny numbers from a minority of remote tribes that it is even applicable for AND we cant because we have already passed constitutions reform saying we will NOT segregate people. thus there is no legal way to do so as it would be racist to do so. Legally we are all ONE people in Australia it is Wrong to make a laws that targets a specific ethnicity because that is RACIST.


ANYWAY
good thing you don't live here to move everything back a generation and promote divisiveness and segregation that has been reduced over decades.
Australia must take it's lessons from the Kangaroo and Emu, we can only move forward.

So again after you have been show your views have no validity you resort back to being rude, abusive and make ridiculous claims to racism, which once again proves you have not the first comprehension what racism is.  You still fail to grasps this is little different to the Scots wanting independence which clearly now you are at odds with self determination. You use poor arguments of how you think you can decide their lives based off a primary western culture. I never once said the majority of Aboriginals lived in the outback, proving yet again you do not read replies properly. I said "Where you will find the same with aboriginals in very isolated places which can easily become independent. I never stated most lived there only that they would be the majority population in these places. Once again making even more unfounded accusations claiming an aboriginal living an western style in Australia is going to be denied his identity? That is absurd again because many people identify as both of their nation and their ethnicity. I never said they were being denied this. I said to aboriginals who wanted Independence, based off aboriginals in the sense of culture and belief countering your poor claims to interbreeding and genes.
People can identified as to what ever group they so wish to be.

I am not even arguing over how long a person has descended to the lands, another lie again. They certainly have been there for 50,000 years, but that is not the reason for the independence. Its because of "self determination" Seriously, do you even understand what that means?
Clearly you do not, so my view back their Independence is the same for the Scottish, based on have self determination for the people of these two groups. So again you fail to read what is being stated to you and going off claims to racism where none are given which would mean because the Scottish wish to separate from the UK and from being British is racist to you .

Sorry but I enjoy debating with people who engage in the debate, but your immature and incorrect accusations of racism, and abuse when I stand most against racism are getting pathetic.
So when you fail to counter my points, you argue against self determination, make unfounded claims to things I have not even argued, false accusations.
That is not a debate, but you being immature because your arguments are Flawed and even worse you would deny people self determination and for goodness sake, the net time this comes up in a debate, research the concept, as you clearly fail to understand it.

That is my last comment on this but I had to put the record straight on false claims you made onto me.


Now you can talk to yourself.

Bye

you just showed you cannot think
You just say an buzz line that you think make you look good with out ever considering WHAT you are saying what it's implications are or who it could possible be implemented in reality.

just another JACKASS hypocrite spouting shit that don't think for themselves.
By your logic TM gets to self determine YOU out of the UK
SO get the fuck out of the UK no complaints TM gets to self determine You out of there,  or STFU!! cause your notion is STUPID any application of how does this work Shows it is stupid You literary need to make Millions suffer to please a couple of hundred...
And you are doing completely Based on Race
THAT IS RACISM
Is it not unfounded to call some a racist when they are saying racist shit like you do.

And no you are listening to a Minority of aboriginals so if a minority of Scots want all the anglos gone so they can self determine (let alone anyone newer)  ALL anglo's According to your logic (or lack of it) should have already left since Some Scots and welsh don't want them there. If you stay in the UK you are deny them Self determination Again that is what you are saying Not me
I say anyone born in a nation belongs to that nation and all members of a nation are equal
You want to put forward that people of the same nation are not equal based on Ancestry THAT IS RACIST!! the literal exact definition of racism. You are PURELY Discriminating based on Race.  

Self determination is something Individual can do Any RACIST that says a particular ethnic group has a single self determination that is the whole group IS So FUCKING RACIST they are a joke
Again you whole thing is racist You say the Doctor that has been raised in Sydney and had top western education is the same as a illiterate hunter from the desert.. again JACK ASS you are so short sighted you don't even realize YOU ARE BEING MORE RACIST than TOMMY.  by even suggesting that aboriginals are homogeneous enough to have a single self determination AND even if they did again 173 to 27 in favor of joining the west...


Dumb Fuck Englishmen need th STFU Europe Fucked the world and if you think we are going to listen to your dumb fuck opinions you are fucking dreaming Cause it is very apparent YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM.

EUROPE HAS NOT FUCKING CLUE how to deal with racism we have already made more gains in the 40 years we have gotten away from you than the Europe has achieved in Centuries, You dumb fucks still go at each other for being from a bee's dick away from each other. we have a nation pretty close to the size of Europe that considers it self ONE. IF you think we are going to let some Racist TWAT euro trash set us back You are fucking dreaming. You lot cant even manage that in the UK

FIX your own goddam yard first

veya_victaous wrote:you just showed you cannot think
You just say an buzz line that you think make you look good with out ever considering WHAT you are saying what it's implications are or who it could possible be implemented in reality.

just another JACKASS hypocrite spouting shit that don't think for themselves.
By your logic TM gets to self determine YOU out of the UK
SO get the fuck out of the UK no complaints TM gets to self determine You out of there,  or STFU!! cause your notion is STUPID any application of how does this work Shows it is stupid You literary need to make Millions suffer to please a couple of hundred...
And you are doing completely Based on Race
THAT IS RACISM
Is it not unfounded to call some a racist when they are saying racist shit like you do.

And no you are listening to a Minority of aboriginals so if a minority of Scots want all the anglos gone so they can self determine (let alone anyone newer)  ALL anglo's According to your logic (or lack of it) should have already left since Some Scots and welsh don't want them there. If you stay in the UK you are deny them Self determination Again that is what you are saying Not me
I say anyone born in a nation belongs to that nation and all members of a nation are equal
You want to put forward that people of the same nation are not equal based on Ancestry THAT IS RACIST!! the literal exact definition of racism. You are PURELY Discriminating based on Race.  

Self determination is something Individual can do Any RACIST that says a particular ethnic group has a single self determination that is the whole group IS So FUCKING RACIST they are a joke
Again you whole thing is racist You say the Doctor that has been raised in Sydney and had top western education is the same as a illiterate hunter from the desert.. again JACK ASS you are so short sighted you don't even realize YOU ARE BEING MORE RACIST than TOMMY.  by even suggesting that aboriginals are homogeneous enough to have a single self determination AND even if they did again 173 to 27 in favor of joining the west...


Dumb Fuck Englishmen need th STFU Europe Fucked the world and if you think we are going to listen to your dumb fuck opinions you are fucking dreaming Cause it is very apparent YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM.

EUROPE HAS NOT FUCKING CLUE how to deal with racism we have already made more gains in the 40 years we have gotten away from you than the Europe has achieved in Centuries, You dumb fucks still go at each other for being from a bee's dick away from each other. we have a nation pretty close to the size of Europe that considers it self ONE. IF you think we are going to let some Racist TWAT euro trash set us back You are fucking dreaming. You lot cant even manage that in the UK

FIX your own goddam yard first

And also being placed on ignore as I am here to debate with people not someone who acts like a 2 year old because his argument contradicts, is illogical, flawed, screams racism, not understanding the concept of self determination, denies people the right of self determination and invent things not said.

So thanks for all your views, I shall not bother commenting on any of your posts Veya, unless you start to grow up.

All the best