College Student to Jeb Bush: ‘Your Brother Created ISIS’

RENO, Nev. — “Your brother created ISIS,” the young woman told Jeb Bush. And with that, Ivy Ziedrich, a 19-year-old college student, created the kind of confrontational moment here on Wednesday morning that presidential candidates dread.

Mr. Bush, the former governor of Florida, had just concluded a town-hall-style meeting when Ms. Ziedrich demanded to be heard. “Governor Bush,” she shouted as audience members asked him for his autograph. “Would you take a student question?”

Mr. Bush whirled around and looked at Ms. Ziedrich, who identified herself as a political science major and a college Democrat at the University of Nevada.

She had heard Mr. Bush argue, a few moments before, that America’s retreat from the Middle East under President Obama had contributed to the growing power of the Islamic State. She told the former governor that he was wrong, and made the case that blame lay with the decision by the administration of his brother George W. Bush to disband the Iraqi Army.

“It was when 30,000 individuals who were part of the Iraqi military were forced out — they had no employment, they had no income, and they were left with access to all of the same arms and weapons,” Ms. Ziedrich said.

She added: “Your brother created ISIS.”

Mr. Bush interjected. “All right. Is that a question?”

Ms. Ziedrich was not finished. “You don’t need to be pedantic to me, sir.”

“Pedantic? Wow,” Mr. Bush replied.

Then Ms. Ziedrich asked: “Why are you saying that ISIS was created by us not having a presence in the Middle East when it’s pointless wars where we send young American men to die for the idea of American exceptionalism? Why are you spouting nationalist rhetoric to get us involved in more wars?”

Mr. Bush replied: “We respectfully disagree. We have a disagreement. When we left Iraq, security had been arranged, Al Qaeda had been taken out. There was a fragile system that could have been brought up to eliminate the sectarian violence.”

He added: “And we had an agreement that the president could have signed that would have kept 10,000 troops, less than we have in Korea, could have created the stability that would have allowed for Iraq to progress. The result was the opposite occurred. Immediately, that void was filled.”

He concluded: “Look, you can rewrite history all you want. But the simple fact is that we are in a much more unstable place because American pulled back.”

Mr. Bush turned away. The conversation was over.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/13/college-student-to-jeb-bush-your-brother-created-isis/

I don't think it was Ms. Ziedrich who was trying to rewrite history. And I doubt Jeb Bush understood her when she used the world 'pendantic', don't think he got up to that grade.

Incorrect and why it is such poor understanding why such rhetoric is wrongly seeking to deny blame where it really should be placed.

ISIS was formed from Wahhabism, just like Al Qaeda, just like the Taliban. It is this form of extremist Islam that has been exported from Saudi, in order to gain control of the Middle East. It is about gaining supremacy between two powers. With or without the attack on Iraq, the Arab Spring would have come to Iraq and like Syria would have embrolled the country into civl war, as was the same with the uprising in 1991 in Iraq which was crushed by Saddam. No conflict in Syria by the West created ISIS there. What did was the opportunity of Saudi to gain influence in a nation where Iran had gained dominance. Nobody is denying by the war on terror this opened up the country where it had been controlled before by a tyrant, but the creation of ISIS had been long in the making, from an ever ongoing conflict for supremacy of two conflicting ideologies within Islam.

To claim it is the Wests fault for this is short sighted as Wahhabism was formed long before any Western intervention in the Middle east, where back in the 19th century you see the same case of violence between the two conflicting Sects. This has always been a conflict between two dominating powers in Saudi and Iran, where both have used the War on terror as a means to recruit many to their cause. So the West has played its part in helping both the Saudi's and Iranians to recruit to their cause, but to say ISIS was created by Bush is ignoring what ideology ISIS is formed from.

You really need read up a bit on what happened to the Iraq army members who were disbanded and left out in the cold.

risingsun wrote:You really need read up a bit on what happened to the Iraq army members who were disbanded and left out in the cold.

That again is just making excuses for the reason behind what is actually going on and ignoring that ISIS was formed from the ideology of Wahhabism. Again nobody denies the part the West has helped play in this, but it did not form ISIS. No war created ISIS, the war and its outcome provided the opportunity for ISIS to cease the moment.

No really, you do need to read up on it.

I have thank you and researched this extensively.
You are just avoiding every point and not able to refute them, which shows its not me that needs to research and understand this better.

No, I'm not avoiding the point Didge, you don't seem to have read the information about that shows the way the men who were disbanded for the Iraq army formed ISIS.   Until you do, there is no point having a discussion.

What is the ideology of ISIS Sassy?
How is it they rose up in Syria, where no war happened?
Why if it is Iraq officers are they following this doctrine?
I understand very well how Saudi has been exporting its ideology because again this is very much a conflict between two ideologies to gain supremacy.

Give you a little clue:

ISIS takes root in Iraq & Syria
The ideological origin of ISIS

The group began more than two decades ago as a fervid fantasy in the mind of a Jordanian named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. A onetime street thug, he arrived in Afghanistan as a mujahideen wannabe in 1989, too late to fight the Soviet Union. He went back home to Jordan, and remained a fringe figure in the international violent “jihad” for much of the following decade. He returned to Afghanistan to set up a training camp for terrorists, and met Osama bin Laden in 1999, but chose not to join al-Qaeda.
The fall of the Taliban in 2001 forced Zarqawi to flee to Iraq. There his presence went largely unnoticed until the Bush administration used it as evidence that al-Qaeda was in cahoots with Saddam Hussein. In reality, though, Zarqawi was a free agent, looking to create his own terror organization. Shortly after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, he set up the forerunner to today’s Islamic State: Jama’at al-Tawhid w’al-Jihad (the Party of Monotheism and Jihad), which was made up mostly of non-Iraqis.
Although Zarqawi’s rhetoric was similar to bin Laden’s, his targets were quite different. From the start, Zarqawi directed his malevolence at fellow Muslims, especially Iraq’s majority Shiite population. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda regarded the Shiites as heretics, but rarely targeted them for slaughter. [1]

ISIS takes root in Iraq & Syria

By 2011, when the U.S. troop withdrawal was complete, AQI was being run by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and had morphed from a largely foreign to a largely Iraqi operation. Baghdadi himself, as his name suggests, is local. The absence of foreigners made it easier for the Sons of Iraq and their kin to ignore previous resentments against the group. There was also another rebranding: AQI was now better known as the Islamic State of Iraq, or ISI.
Baghdadi took Zarqawi’s tactics and supercharged them. The Shiites were still his main targets, but now he sent suicide bombers to attack police and military offices, checkpoints, and recruiting stations. (Civilian targets remained fair game.) ISI’s ranks were swelled by former Sons of Iraq, many of whom had previously been commanders and soldiers in Saddam’s military. This gave Baghdadi’s fighters the air of an army, rather than a rag-tag militant outfit.
With thousands of armed men now at his disposal, Baghdadi opened a second front against the Shiites—in Syria, where there was a largely secular uprising against President Bashar al-Assad
.
What mattered to Baghdadi and his propagandists was that Assad and many of his senior military commanders were Alawites, members of a Shiite sub-sect
.
Battle-hardened from Iraq, ISI was a much more potent fighting force than most of the secular groups, and fought Assad’s forces to a standstill in many areas.

Soon, Baghdadi renamed his group the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), reflecting his greater ambitions

http://www.quora.com/How-did-ISIS-form-When-and-where-did-ISIS-begin


Many site with greater detail out there.

Clue, yeah that was clueless.
So lets ask again.
How is it a group of army officers which you claim are pissed at being left in the lurch because of the Iraq war, decide that because of the west they have decided to become wahhabists and now start killing Kurds, Shia's Christians etc?
Please explain how the West made them hate and kill their own people?

Again what you are doing is ignoring the root cause of how an ideology has been used to indoctrinate people and how the excuse of the blaming the west is done so to recruit more to their cause. Even though they are actually targetting Muslims, Christians etc.

Spamming articles which you cannot argue yourself is not debating Sassy, even thouigh I can easily refute such poor artciles. Such articles poorly try to excuse the root cause of the problem, that being the ideology itself which has existed far longer than any Western involvment.

risingsun wrote:RENO, Nev. — “Your brother created ISIS,” the young woman told Jeb Bush. And with that, Ivy Ziedrich, a 19-year-old college student, created the kind of confrontational moment here on Wednesday morning that presidential candidates dread.

Mr. Bush, the former governor of Florida, had just concluded a town-hall-style meeting when Ms. Ziedrich demanded to be heard. “Governor Bush,” she shouted as audience members asked him for his autograph. “Would you take a student question?”

Mr. Bush whirled around and looked at Ms. Ziedrich, who identified herself as a political science major and a college Democrat at the University of Nevada.

She had heard Mr. Bush argue, a few moments before, that America’s retreat from the Middle East under President Obama had contributed to the growing power of the Islamic State. She told the former governor that he was wrong, and made the case that blame lay with the decision by the administration of his brother George W. Bush to disband the Iraqi Army.

“It was when 30,000 individuals who were part of the Iraqi military were forced out — they had no employment, they had no income, and they were left with access to all of the same arms and weapons,” Ms. Ziedrich said.

She added: “Your brother created ISIS.”

Mr. Bush interjected. “All right. Is that a question?”

Ms. Ziedrich was not finished. “You don’t need to be pedantic to me, sir.”

“Pedantic? Wow,” Mr. Bush replied.

Then Ms. Ziedrich asked: “Why are you saying that ISIS was created by us not having a presence in the Middle East when it’s pointless wars where we send young American men to die for the idea of American exceptionalism? Why are you spouting nationalist rhetoric to get us involved in more wars?”

Mr. Bush replied: “We respectfully disagree. We have a disagreement. When we left Iraq, security had been arranged, Al Qaeda had been taken out. There was a fragile system that could have been brought up to eliminate the sectarian violence.”

He added: “And we had an agreement that the president could have signed that would have kept 10,000 troops, less than we have in Korea, could have created the stability that would have allowed for Iraq to progress. The result was the opposite occurred. Immediately, that void was filled.”

He concluded: “Look, you can rewrite history all you want. But the simple fact is that we are in a much more unstable place because American pulled back.”

Mr. Bush turned away. The conversation was over.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/13/college-student-to-jeb-bush-your-brother-created-isis/

I don't think it was Ms. Ziedrich who was trying to rewrite history.  And I doubt Jeb Bush understood her when she used the world 'pendantic', don't think he got up to that grade.

I think he is wrong in that assessment. ISIs did not appear until Obama abandoned the syrian people to their fate around 3 years or so ago when Assad started slaughtering innocent protesters. the vacuum left by the wests inaction in tackling that tyrant allowed the jihadii's to gain a foothold and morph into daesh.
another miscalculation by Obama was the rush to get out of Iraq before the Iraqi army was ready to stand ion its own two feet. By doing so he dishonoured the memory of the huge number of american and british forces who died during the wests time there. I was also sorry to see the coalition rush to get out, but once americas decision was made it would have been impossible for britain to stay.
History will, I believe, show Obama to be an utter failure and one of the weakest presidents ever, someone who plays golf while bengazi burns. His only achievement will be to move Jimmy carter off the worst president position.

his rallying cry of "yes I can" will more likely be changed to "No I couldn't"

The Devil, You Know wrote:

risingsun wrote:RENO, Nev. — “Your brother created ISIS,” the young woman told Jeb Bush. And with that, Ivy Ziedrich, a 19-year-old college student, created the kind of confrontational moment here on Wednesday morning that presidential candidates dread.

Mr. Bush, the former governor of Florida, had just concluded a town-hall-style meeting when Ms. Ziedrich demanded to be heard. “Governor Bush,” she shouted as audience members asked him for his autograph. “Would you take a student question?”

Mr. Bush whirled around and looked at Ms. Ziedrich, who identified herself as a political science major and a college Democrat at the University of Nevada.

She had heard Mr. Bush argue, a few moments before, that America’s retreat from the Middle East under President Obama had contributed to the growing power of the Islamic State. She told the former governor that he was wrong, and made the case that blame lay with the decision by the administration of his brother George W. Bush to disband the Iraqi Army.

“It was when 30,000 individuals who were part of the Iraqi military were forced out — they had no employment, they had no income, and they were left with access to all of the same arms and weapons,” Ms. Ziedrich said.

She added: “Your brother created ISIS.”

Mr. Bush interjected. “All right. Is that a question?”

Ms. Ziedrich was not finished. “You don’t need to be pedantic to me, sir.”

“Pedantic? Wow,” Mr. Bush replied.

Then Ms. Ziedrich asked: “Why are you saying that ISIS was created by us not having a presence in the Middle East when it’s pointless wars where we send young American men to die for the idea of American exceptionalism? Why are you spouting nationalist rhetoric to get us involved in more wars?”

Mr. Bush replied: “We respectfully disagree. We have a disagreement. When we left Iraq, security had been arranged, Al Qaeda had been taken out. There was a fragile system that could have been brought up to eliminate the sectarian violence.”

He added: “And we had an agreement that the president could have signed that would have kept 10,000 troops, less than we have in Korea, could have created the stability that would have allowed for Iraq to progress. The result was the opposite occurred. Immediately, that void was filled.”

He concluded: “Look, you can rewrite history all you want. But the simple fact is that we are in a much more unstable place because American pulled back.”

Mr. Bush turned away. The conversation was over.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/13/college-student-to-jeb-bush-your-brother-created-isis/

I don't think it was Ms. Ziedrich who was trying to rewrite history.  And I doubt Jeb Bush understood her when she used the world 'pendantic', don't think he got up to that grade.

I think he is wrong in that assessment. ISIs did not appear until Obama abandoned the syrian people to their fate around 3 years or so ago when Assad started slaughtering innocent protesters. the vacuum left by the wests inaction in tackling that tyrant allowed the jihadii's to gain a foothold and morph into daesh.
another miscalculation by Obama was the rush to get out of Iraq before the Iraqi army was ready to stand ion its own two feet. By doing so he dishonoured the memory of the huge number of american and british forces who died during the wests time there. I was also sorry to see the coalition rush to get out, but once americas decision was made it would have been impossible for britain to stay.
History will, I believe, show Obama to be an utter failure and one of the weakest presidents ever, someone who plays golf while bengazi burns. His only achievement will be to move Jimmy carter off the worst president position.

his rallying cry of "yes I can" will more likely be changed to "No I couldn't"

What a load of poor accusations.
So can you back up any of your claims here?
All you seem to being showing is your hatred for a President who has in fact accomplished many things.