Elderly should do community work or lose pension, peer says

[Irn Bru]

Older people should lose their pensions if they refuse to do community work to stop them being a “negative burden on society", a former senior Whitehall official has suggested.

Lord Bichard, an ex-chief of the Benefits Agency, said the elderly should get rewards and fines to make sure they are taking a more active part in the world.

The crossbench peer, who also chaired an inquiry into the murder of two Soham school girls, suggested the same tough attitude towards benefit scroungers should be taken with older people.

“Older people who are not very old could be making a very useful contribution to civil society if they were given some incentive or recognition for doing so,” he told a committee of MPs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9630862/Elderly-should-do-community-work-or-lose-pension-peer-says.html

Who is this clown? Having put in a shift and done their bit over the years this guy still wants more.
Well I'm quite happy to turn up at the House of Lords at £300 quid a day for a nap and a subsidised meal and a bevy along with him.
Otherwise he can do one.

[Guest]

He can fuck right off, who the hell does he think he is!

[Guest]

Hmmm...a cross bench peer????


is that one which doesnt know his left from his right....


well I suppose this will be the lefty comming out of him then....after all it was a recent labour (AKA Brown the pension thief) that stole billions from pension funds thus writing mine down a long way to what it could have been....

[Irn Bru]

Hmmm...a cross bench peer????


is that one which doesnt know his left from his right....


well I suppose this will be the lefty comming out of him then....after all it was a recent labour (AKA Brown the pension thief) that stole billions from pension funds thus writing mine down a long way to what it could have been....

I think you may be getting mixed up with Thatcher who changed the link between earnings and the state pension which cost pensioners around something like £60 quid a week when I last saw it and of course Lawson as well

Here's an article for you Victor from a pensions expert...

http://www.rosaltmann.com/whathashappened.htm

I'd bang the lot in but it's subject to copyright.

[Guest]

Victor dear, tell the very odd person who has his hand up your back and is moving your mouth to take his hand away, we've all got the joke now, you have turned into a curmudgeon, and one who can only sing a single tune to boot!

[Guest]

yup thought you two would miss the point

lets have the "race" to the bottom.

personal pensions can be robbed and plundered....

we only want folks who are dependant upon state aid, heaven forbid that someone may have enough to actually be able to be independant at need....


then of course we CAN institute the above kind of idiocy....

and thanks sassy, but your "recommendation " was quite unnecessary,

rather than having someones hand up my back i'd say that some few years of experience have taught me one thing....

tory? labour? not a fag paper between em, neither is out for anyones benefit but their own, but by god the tories are less repressive
less interfering


funny init how your darling party stay glued to the HS2 train line

when it aint needed
is an expensive white elephant that you me and everyone else will be paying for for years

but then I suppose that fact that half the labour party have their fingers in the "constuction pie" along with their "opposites" in the tory party might have something to do with that

we know well that labour dislike the rural economy and care little for the countryside (though the tories are equally disgusting but in a different way)

and it is quite plain what labours attitude to the small one man band business is....

"pretend to support them ...then regulate them out of business".....

So i now vote where i perceive least harm for ME

[eddie]

Elderly people have earned the right to relax, drink coffee, smoke a pipe and take crack cocaine if they so wish.
I'll be fucked if I am off out working at seventy.
Unless of course, I want to.

[Guest]

I think it's a good idea in some circumstances because a lot of old people are lazy bastards who play the 'old'card like other people play the 'race' card.

Many elderly people are sick & unhealthy because they've spent their lives abusing their bodies with booze,drugs & fags & then expect help & sympathy because they are old.

Likewise,many old people didn't bother with savings in order to boost their pension but instead they squandered their money on shite.And now they moan because they can't manage on the state pension....Well they should have thought about that when they were younger.

[eddie]

I think it's a good idea in some circumstances because a lot of old people are lazy bastards who play the 'old'card like other people play the 'race' card.

Many elderly people are sick & unhealthy because they've spent their lives abusing their bodies with booze,drugs & fags & then expect help & sympathy because they are old.

Likewise,many old people didn't bother with savings in order to boost their pension but instead they squandered their money on shite.And now they moan because they can't manage on the state pension....Well they should have thought about that when they were younger.

Ah so we should just use our one precious life to work work and work so that we can eat when we are older??

[Guest]

I think it's a good idea in some circumstances because a lot of old people are lazy bastards who play the 'old'card like other people play the 'race' card.

Many elderly people are sick & unhealthy because they've spent their lives abusing their bodies with booze,drugs & fags & then expect help & sympathy because they are old.

Likewise,many old people didn't bother with savings in order to boost their pension but instead they squandered their money on shite.And now they moan because they can't manage on the state pension....Well they should have thought about that when they were younger.

Ah so we should just use our one precious life to work work and work so that we can eat when we are older??

Well Eddie...kind of yes.How else are you going to be able to afford to eat when you are older?

It's not so much a case of work,work,work but save,save,save.It's down to personal responsibility.

[veya_victaous]

Well the current lot should..
Bloody Spend spend spend...
never pay enough taxes
Lazy Buggers

[Guest]

My Mother is 82 and still works, by doing gardening, it earns her extra money and she wants to do so and she enjoys working. She is very fit for her age.
In fact one of the most dangereous things is with the elderly going from active work to no work which brings about in many cases heart attacks.
Should people be forced to work in old age?
No, but they certainly should be able to of which they are also certainly discrminated against from obtaining work.
I think there is nothing wrong with people who are older wanting to work if they wish to and that we should support them in every way we can.
What some peer says is the words of one person, which should be condemned but not some lame view to make a Polictical argument.

[Original Quill]

Isn't this something that would be be better done by the rich?  The elderly have arthritis and such.  I would say that if one made over $1-million annually, he or she should have to do community service once a week.

[Guest]

Isn't this something that would be be better done by the rich?  The elderly have arthritis and such.  I would say that if one made over $1-million annually, he or she should have to do community service once a week.

Do all elderly?
Silly sterotypes that you hold and clearly know very few old people either Quill.
Again you are as bad as this peer, claiming to force people to work, when it should be down to people themselves if they wish to work.
You just made yourself as poor as this peer.

[eddie]

My Mother is 82 and still works, by doing gardening, it earns her extra money and she wants to do so and she enjoys working. She is very fit for her age.
In fact one of the most dangereous things is with the elderly going from active work to no work which brings about in many cases heart attacks.
Should people be forced to work in old age?
No, but they certainly should be able to of which they are also certainly discrminated against from obtaining work.
I think there is nothing wrong with people who are older wanting to work if they wish to and that we should support them in every way we can.
What some peer says is the words of one person, which should be condemned but not some lame view to make a Polictical argument.

I agree with much of what you say here didge

My grandparents worked until well into their seventies - but they didn't have to or need to financially, it was more a case of restless legs with them (pair of complete nutters they were!)

The point is, after working all your life why should you, as an elderly gentlemen, be forced into working due to shite pensions?

It's up to the government's to look after the vulnerable in this country.

[eddie]

I think it's a good idea in some circumstances because a lot of old people are lazy bastards who play the 'old'card like other people play the 'race' card.

Many elderly people are sick & unhealthy because they've spent their lives abusing their bodies with booze,drugs & fags & then expect help & sympathy because they are old.

Likewise,many old people didn't bother with savings in order to boost their pension but instead they squandered their money on shite.And now they moan because they can't manage on the state pension....Well they should have thought about that when they were younger.

Ah so we should just use our one precious life to work work and work so that we can eat when we are older??

Well Eddie...kind of yes.How else are you going to be able to afford to eat when you are older?

It's not so much a case of work,work,work but save,save,save.It's down to personal responsibility.

Do you know how boring life is when all you do is work to save for when you can't work anymore???
Is that what life is about????

Should that be what life is about?

Not if we lived in a fairer country or world it isn't.

[Guest]

My Mother is 82 and still works, by doing gardening, it earns her extra money and she wants to do so and she enjoys working. She is very fit for her age.
In fact one of the most dangereous things is with the elderly going from active work to no work which brings about in many cases heart attacks.
Should people be forced to work in old age?
No, but they certainly should be able to of which they are also certainly discrminated against from obtaining work.
I think there is nothing wrong with people who are older wanting to work if they wish to and that we should support them in every way we can.
What some peer says is the words of one person, which should be condemned but not some lame view to make a Polictical argument.

I agree with much of what you say here didge

My grandparents worked until well into their seventies - but they didn't have to or need to financially, it was more a case of restless legs with them (pair of complete nutters they were!)

The point is, after working all your life why should you, as an elderly gentlemen, be forced into working due to shite pensions?

It's up to the government's to look after the vulnerable in this country.

Disagree its fully down to the Governement to look after the vunerable, as where family can they should help those vunerable. I thing this is what is fundementally wrong today where people take the view they should not help their own family and that they just reply on the Goverment, as all should play a part, as we have and used to do so for centuries. This is not to say the Goverment should not help, of course they should, but charity starts at home.
Nobody should be forced to do anything, but of the elkderly people I know, more so the men, many want to continue to work as they bored out of their skulls. Not full time, but to at least do something part time. It is not the money in many cases that is the issue, but of things to fill their time and remain active.

[Guest]

Well Eddie...kind of yes.How else are you going to be able to afford to eat when you are older?

It's not so much a case of work,work,work but save,save,save.It's down to personal responsibility.

Do you know how boring life is when all you do is work to save for when you can't work anymore???
Is that what life is about????

Should that be what life is about?

Not if we lived in a fairer country or world it isn't.

Good morning Eddie.

I do agree with you but the fact is,we don't live in a fairer world.And that's why we need to take personal responsibility & make preparation for our old age........By saving & by not abusing our bodies which speeds up the illness & aging process.

But I don't believe in working oneself to death.

[eddie]

Well Eddie...kind of yes.How else are you going to be able to afford to eat when you are older?

It's not so much a case of work,work,work but save,save,save.It's down to personal responsibility.

Do you know how boring life is when all you do is work to save for when you can't work anymore???
Is that what life is about????

Should that be what life is about?

Not if we lived in a fairer country or world it isn't.

Good morning Eddie.

I do agree with you but the fact is,we don't live in a fairer world.And that's why we need to take personal responsibility & make preparation for our old age........By saving & by not abusing our bodies which speeds up the illness & aging process.

But I don't believe in working oneself to death.

It's a damn shame anyone should have to ever be forced to work after retirement age.
That the time when couples get their lives back - after kids, working daily grind etc

Should be the glorious sunset years.

[Guest]

Good morning Eddie.

I do agree with you but the fact is,we don't live in a fairer world.And that's why we need to take personal responsibility & make preparation for our old age........By saving & by not abusing our bodies which speeds up the illness & aging process.

But I don't believe in working oneself to death.

It's a damn shame anyone should have to ever be forced to work after retirement age.
That the time when couples get their lives back - after kids, working daily grind etc

Should be the glorious sunset years.

Yep I largely agree with you.

[Andy]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

[Guest]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

People are living far longer and it makes sense the age is raised, due to people being far more able to work up to the age of 70.
I fail to see any problem with this, even more due to the rising cost of pensions.

[Guest]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

Then save for your old age dear.Don't rely on the government or someone else to feed you & wipe your backside when you're older.

Sort it out yourself & stop blaming other people.

[nicko]

Handy studies all the papers religiously to find some thing to bash the Tories with. If he can't find anything he makes something up!!

But then again he admits to being a "big cock"

[Guest]

Nobody has to 'scour the papers' for evidence of stupidity and arrogance from the Conservative Party, there MPs and followers hand it out on plates every day.

[nicko]

C'mon sassy they all do it, don't just pick out the Tories Labour are just as guilty, Agreed?

[Ben Reilly]

Hmmm, what kind of odds could I get betting that Baron Bichard of the House of Lords will never need any kind of pension?

[Guest]

I couldn't see my parents doing community work for their pension (private pension) not sure if they are included . But my dad has Parkinson's and demntia and my my is disabled can't walk .

We just had a stair lift installed , my mum told me yesterday that my dad was no way going to use it ha ha , he was the first on it and loves it .

[Guest]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

Then save for your old age dear.Don't rely on the government or someone else to feed you & wipe your backside when you're older.

Sort it out yourself & stop blaming other people.

good morning Shady , hope you are well

I don't think many people can save for their retirement especially if they have low wages  as every penny goes on paying bills .

Where we live it is a very poor part of the country with minimum wage .

[nicko]

I could do a part time job------licking stamps!

[Guest]

I could do a part time job------licking stamps!

aww I remember the green shield stamps my mum used to get us to lick them to stick them in the book ha ha

[Original Quill]

Isn't this something that would be be better done by the rich?  The elderly have arthritis and such.  I would say that if one made over $1-million annually, he or she should have to do community service once a week.

Do all elderly?
Silly sterotypes that you hold and clearly know very few old people either Quill.

Oh, I know.  I am such a youngster myself!  My sister, my brothers...all so young and spry.  Frankly, I am trying to fit into the stereotypes of conservatives like this chap.

Again you are as bad as this peer, claiming to force people to work, when it should be down to people themselves if they wish to work.
You just made yourself as poor as this peer.

Equality doesn't always mean the same for everyone.  That is distributive equality, while proportional equality takes into account the differences between people.

This is a very good example: the elderly are infirm, and often suffer from such illnesses as arthritis, diabetes, strokes and cancer, etc.  The wealthy have had the good fortune (or, should I say 'inheritance') of  enjoying excellent healthcare all of their life. It stands to reason that the elderly should be allowed to sit and rest, while the wealthy have the opportunity to go to work and do something beneficial to others...well, for a change.

So you see, there is good reason for the sound principles I support.  

[Guest]

Do all elderly?
Silly sterotypes that you hold and clearly know very few old people either Quill.

Oh, I know.  I am such a youngster myself!  My sister, my brothers...all so young and spry.  Frankly, I am trying to fit into the stereotypes of conservatives like this chap.

Again you are as bad as this peer, claiming to force people to work, when it should be down to people themselves if they wish to work.
You just made yourself as poor as this peer.

Equality doesn't always mean the same for everyone.  That is distributive equality, while proportional equality takes into account the differences between people.

This is a very good example: the elderly are infirm, and often suffer from such illnesses as arthritis, diabetes, strokes and cancer, etc.  The wealthy have had the good fortune (or, should I say 'inheritance') of  enjoying excellent healthcare all of their life. So you see, there is good reason for the sound principles I support.  

Know, they ere just poor stereotypes Quill, no matter how you tried to poorly dress them up
The elderly are more susceptible to illness, it does not mean all are ill or in fact in anyway not fit, when many actually are.
Your point was poor and as bad as he was Quill

[Original Quill]

Oh, I know.  I am such a youngster myself!  My sister, my brothers...all so young and spry.  Frankly, I am trying to fit into the stereotypes of conservatives like this chap.



Equality doesn't always mean the same for everyone.  That is distributive equality, while proportional equality takes into account the differences between people.

This is a very good example: the elderly are infirm, and often suffer from such illnesses as arthritis, diabetes, strokes and cancer, etc.  The wealthy have had the good fortune (or, should I say 'inheritance') of  enjoying excellent healthcare all of their life. So you see, there is good reason for the sound principles I support.  

Know, they ere just poor stereotypes Quill, no matter how you tried to poorly dress them up
The elderly are more susceptible to illness, it does not mean all are ill or in fact in anyway not fit, when many actually are.
Your point was poor and as bad as he was Quill

Didge?  I've never known you to be so irrational.  Are you jealous that I thought of this aspect of the problem first?  Or are you--as we say--just 'dug in'.  

[Guest]

Know, they ere just poor stereotypes Quill, no matter how you tried to poorly dress them up
The elderly are more susceptible to illness, it does not mean all are ill or in fact in anyway not fit, when many actually are.
Your point was poor and as bad as he was Quill

Didge?  I've never known you to be so irrational.  Are you jealous that I thought of this aspect of the problem first?  Ore are you--as we say--just 'dug in'.  

The answer to both your points is no.
Again you were just as poor and in my view even worse based on your social and political views and make yourself very right wing by such views on this one aspect
No elderly should be forced to work, only those who wish to work.
So on either way, you make yourself as poor as the Peer, if not worse based on your social and political points, so you are on to a loss big time if you wish to go down that route

[Original Quill]

Well, then...never mind.

[Lone Wolf]

I think it's a good idea in some circumstances because a lot of old people are lazy bastards who play the 'old'card like other people play the 'race' card.

........................

YOU are obviously referring to his snotty nobleless Lord Bighead in that diatribe there, your Shadiness...

WHY DO I get the impression, also, that the nasty old Lord Dickhead himself has probably never done a day's real work in his long and obviously miserable life ?

IF that big dick of a layabout "peer" ever wants to stop pigging out at the Public Service Pensions trough, maybe he would like to lead by example ?   MAYBE working as a volunteer in a mental ward for the permanently and terminally criminally insane would be a good start..  
WITH a bit of luck, they might never let him out !  

[veya_victaous]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

already 72 for me

[Guest]

My Mother is 82 and still works, by doing gardening, it earns her extra money and she wants to do so and she enjoys working. She is very fit for her age.
In fact one of the most dangereous things is with the elderly going from active work to no work which brings about in many cases heart attacks.
Should people be forced to work in old age?
No, but they certainly should be able to of which they are also certainly discrminated against from obtaining work.
I think there is nothing wrong with people who are older wanting to work if they wish to and that we should support them in every way we can.
What some peer says is the words of one person, which should be condemned but not some lame view to make a Polictical argument.

My mum is 82 this year my dad is 80 both are in ill health mostly caused by tragedy . Losing a child is the worse thing for a parent and it is something that literally breaks your heart . My dad worked from age 12 and went to sea his father beat him with the buckle end of a belt for not bringing enough money home and his mother rejected him at birth its hardly surprising he is bad health with all that deal with . He and my mum paid into a private pension and have never been lazy they have always saved for their old age , but it seems now they can't enjoy it as they are both disabled .

A lot of working class people can't afford to save for their retirement as they don't even have enough to live on let alone put some aside for old age , its so easy to think that everyone has the same life but they don't . I know people who work just to pay bills they have nothing left for savings or entertainment they just work and pay bills that's it and i think that's sad

[Lone Wolf]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

already 72 for me

JUST over 68 'plus change',  for me...  

[FOR those not in Oz' ==  THE pension age in Australia started creeping up under the Howard regime, about a decade ago - with the Labor Part's support - in order to slow down the rate at which new pensioners will access welfare in the future.
LAST year, the Abbott-Hockey Tory guvm'nt re-confirmed it's support for this policy - and in the process increased the rate slightly at which the age is rising from the existing 65 years..].

[Lone Wolf]

My Mother is 82 and still works, by doing gardening, it earns her extra money and she wants to do so and she enjoys working. She is very fit for her age.
In fact one of the most dangereous things is with the elderly going from active work to no work which brings about in many cases heart attacks.
Should people be forced to work in old age?
No, but they certainly should be able to.............

OVER here people can work as long as they like...

THE former "retirement age" of 65 was also removed from Federal leegislature, at the same time as the pension age started creeping up ~ saving people having to 'retire' @ 65 and then be hired again as consultants, contractors or casuals IF they were able to still find work..

Some jobs ~ such as underground coal miners and oil rig workers, military and emergency workers ~ still have mandatory age limits that are applied as part of the job descriptions.  Highly experienced people might be re-employed in management or admin' roles, but cannot legally do all of the physical work that they did previously (AS IF they'd want to !).

ADDITIONAL to such legislative and OH&S requirements; there is also the unavoidable fact that as people age many physical activities become more impossible, tiring, onerous, and/or downright dangerous ~ as with labouring, professional sports folks, surgeons and nurses, farmers and fisher's, and the likes.

OVER here, aged pensioners can work a few hours a week, earning $100 (plus any 'undeclared'/cash in hand/'unpaid' work..) before their pension is even touched, after which they then lose 50 cents for each additional dollar declared..   IF they're lucky enough to find any such suitable jobs.

AND, of course, volunteer services are always crying out for more helpers.

[Lone Wolf]

I agree with much of what you say here didge

My grandparents worked until well into their seventies - but they didn't have to or need to financially, it was more a case of restless legs with them (pair of complete nutters they were!)

The point is, after working all your life why should you, as an elderly gentlemen, be forced into working due to shite pensions?

It's up to the government's to look after the vulnerable in this country.

Disagree its fully down to the Governement to look after the vunerable, as where family can they should help those vunerable. I thing this is what is fundementally wrong today where people take the view they should not help their own family and that they just reply on the Goverment, as all should play a part, as we have and used to do so for centuries. This is not to say the Goverment should not help, of course they should, but charity starts at home.
................................

AS USUAL you continue to ignore the realities of life Dodgeridoo...

MANY families these days cannot afford the costs or time required to look after disabled, demented or degenerating family members, by themselves;

MANY elderly and disabled folks find themselves estranged, living at a distance, or left with no remaining family;

EXPECTING other family members to "help out" could prevent many individuals ever being able to buy their own home, or settle down with a family of their own;

AND THEN there's those reverse situations ~ like my 59 year old cousin and her 60-something year old husband who have a severely handicapped daughter now into her thirties. WHAT would happen to her in your ideal world, Didge, when my cousin and her OH are no longer able to to be full-time carers ~  or worse still when they eventually die ?

IN that distant past that you only ever look at through Rose-tinted glasses, Didge, many families would leave their more severely disabled "out in the snow" and hope that they wouldn't survive..  

[Lone Wolf]

If the Conservatives get in again, expect retirement age to be raised to70 by 2020.
We will all have to work until we drop as VAT is going to take another hit of 2.5% - that is the only way Osborn is goung to find the cash for his unfunded handouts.

Then save for your old age dear.Don't rely on the government or someone else to feed you & wipe your backside when you're older.

Sort it out yourself & stop blaming other people.

DO YOU give your parents that little mean-hearted, selfish and somewhat Fascist lecture every time you visit them, Herr Shady ?
I CAN just imagine their reaction when you do :

[nicko]

Why shouldn't the government" feed" you as you put it when we have paid in money for 50 yrs or so? they are quick to feed and house immigrants who have paid in fuck all.

[eddie]

Why shouldn't the government" feed" you as you put it when we have paid in money for 50 yrs or so?    they are quick to feed and house immigrants who have paid in fuck all.

And of course, there is this point that Nicko has mentioned...?

[Guest]

Then save for your old age dear.Don't rely on the government or someone else to feed you & wipe your backside when you're older.

Sort it out yourself & stop blaming other people.

DO YOU give your parents that little mean-hearted, selfish and somewhat Fascist lecture every time you visit them, Herr Shady ?
I CAN just imagine their reaction when you do :    

No......They're dead.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!

But it was from them that I inherited this,get on with it & stop moaning attitude.

[Raggamuffin]

Why shouldn't the government" feed" you as you put it when we have paid in money for 50 yrs or so?    they are quick to feed and house immigrants who have paid in fuck all.

They move the goal posts though. They changed the retirement age by several years. If you want to retire at 60, it's best to have your own pension.

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