Obama-Netanyahu Tiff worsens: US won’t rule out using UN to create Palestine

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:18 pm

President Obama put some further hints out there on Tuesday about how he might proceed on Israeli-Paletinian relations in his final two years.

Asked if he’d be willing to go through the United Nations to achieve Palestinian statehood, he replied, “We’re going to do that evaluation . . . We’re going to partly wait for an actual Israeli government to form.”

It is huge that Obama did not say “no.” The Israeli-Palestinian negotiations have been bilateral. The US and Obama liked it that way. The question was whether the talks could now become multilateral, which is what would happen at the UN. Since bilateral talks are no longer plausible, the UN may be what’s left. Only 2 1/2 years ago, the Obama administration petulantly opposed granting Palestine non-member observer status at the UN, insisting that bilateral relations were the way to go instead. (Palestine now has standing to take Netanyahu to the International Criminal Court).

Obama declined to comment on a Wall Street Journal report that Israel spied on the US negotiations with Iran and then conveyed classified material to Congress in hopes of derailing the talks. It is of course outrageous that a foreign power should be encouraging congress to tie up a president’s foreign policy initiative.

Obama came into office in January of 2009 determined to negotiate peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. But George Mitchell, his first negotiator, was foiled by Israeli PM Netanyahu’s insistence on ending the freeze on Israeli squatter settlements in the Palestinian West Bank. The Palestinians walked away, as they were meant to. John Kerry tried again in 2013-2014 but got nowhere.

There were rumors a couple of weeks ago that Kerry was gearing up for a third try at negotiations after the Israeli elections. But there will be no more Kerry shuttle diplomacy. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s statement forestalling of any Palestinian state (the point of the negotiations) raised the question of what the diplomatic negotiations could possibly have achieved.

Obama said Tuesday that despite Netanyahu’s attempt to walk back his opposition to Palestine:

“there still does not appear to be a prospect of a meaningful framework established that would lead to a Palestinian state… Up until this point, the premise has been both under Republican and Democratic administrations that as difficult as it was, as challenging as it was, the possibility of two states living side by side in peace and security could marginalize more extreme elements, bring together folks at the center with some common sense and we could resolve what has been a vexing issue and one that is ultimately a threat to Israel as well. What we can’t do is pretend that there’s a possibility of something that’s not there, and we can’t continue to premise our public diplomacy based on something that everybody knows it not going to happen in the next several years.”

Obama is saying bilateral talks are out of the question, as between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and that he refuses to pretend otherwise. But he does have the policy goal of seeing a Palestinian state established. It may well by the the UN Security Council is the forum where that could be pursued.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/03/netanyahu-worsens-palestine.html

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:21 pm

Happy for the two state solution to happen, which has always been the Goal of the Obama administration.
They will not stop supporting the Israeli's though in the need to defend themselves.
The picking point here is, if palestine is given a state and then attack israel again, then they can kiss their new home goodbye, as I doubt many will then have any sympathy for them if their goal clearly is to continue to wipe out Israel.
So lets see how this pans out

by Original Quill Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:56 pm

What you don't seem to realize, didge, is that Natanyahu is Israel. He has been in office so long that he has set back any dream of a two state solution in our lifetime. Who knows, perhaps for the next lifetime as will.

Dreams are one thing. Dreams way out there are another thing. And dreams that are dodges and diversions--which we appear to have here--are things that will never happen. So what we have here is: dreams, far-out dreams, and not a chance!

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:What you don't seem to realize, didge, is that Natanyahu is Israel. He has been in office so long that he has set back any dream of a two state solution in our lifetime. Who knows, perhaps for the next lifetime as will.

Dreams are one thing. Dreams way out there are another thing. And dreams that are dodges and diversions--which we appear to have here--are things that will never happen. So what we have here is: dreams, far-out dreams, and not a chance!

How antisemitic can you get.
Read back what you just said, as if all israel is now Natanyahu
That is appalling nearly as bad as your old white men with beards.
You really have quite the racist streak

by Original Quill Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:10 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:What you don't seem to realize, didge, is that Natanyahu is Israel. He has been in office so long that he has set back any dream of a two state solution in our lifetime. Who knows, perhaps for the next lifetime as will.

Dreams are one thing. Dreams way out there are another thing. And dreams that are dodges and diversions--which we appear to have here--are things that will never happen. So what we have here is: dreams, far-out dreams, and not a chance!

How antisemitic can you get.
Read back what you just said, as if all israel is now Natanyahu
That is appalling nearly as bad as your old white men with beards.
You really have quite the racist streak

So the name 'Netanyahu' is synonymous with racism? I'm following you...carry on. I want to see where this leads.

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:11 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

How antisemitic can you get.
Read back what you just said, as if all israel is now Natanyahu
That is appalling nearly as bad as your old white men with beards.
You really have quite the racist streak

So the name 'Netanyahu' is synonymous with racism? I'm following you...carry on. I want to see where this leads.

You just made the whole of israel as one with one person, that was racist beyond belief, as if they are one.

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:32 pm

Do you know what else you fail to grasp also Quill other than your poor racial views, is that Obama would never stop defending Israel if they were attacked.
Second if Obama goes ahead and creates a Palestine State without any say by Israel who fears more than anything an islamist palestine state, they will turn to Putin for backing, who would jump at the chance. Natanyahu bow has nothingt o stop him preventing a palestinisn state and will just annex Palestine, because the west can do nothing as happened in Syria, when Putin made his view clear Western intervention would not happen.
Either way Obama has to be really careful here to not end up with an Israel nation then in bed with Russia and Putin and he will be seen as the creation of this problem.

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

How antisemitic can you get.
Read back what you just said, as if all israel is now Natanyahu
That is appalling nearly as bad as your old white men with beards.
You really have quite the racist streak

So the name 'Netanyahu' is synonymous with racism? I'm following you...carry on. I want to see where this leads.

It certainly is, this is the man who got people to vote for him on the day by saying 'there was an army of Arabs' voting. Those Arabs were Israeli citizens, you can't get more racist than Bibi.

http://jewschool.com/2015/03/36372/bibi-netanyahu-high-arab-voter-turnout-is-like-an-enemy-army-attack/

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 pm

risingsun wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So the name 'Netanyahu' is synonymous with racism? I'm following you...carry on. I want to see where this leads.

It certainly is, this is the man who got people to vote for him on the day by saying 'there was an army of Arabs' voting. Those Arabs were Israeli citizens, you can't get more racist than Bibi.

http://jewschool.com/2015/03/36372/bibi-netanyahu-high-arab-voter-turnout-is-like-an-enemy-army-attack/

Actually what he said was:

One was about a Palestinian state:

“The right-wing rule is in danger. The Arab voters are coming in great numbers to the polling stations. The left-wing nonprofit organizations are bringing them in buses. Go out to the polling stations, bring your friends and family, and vote Mahal [Likud] in order to close the gap between us and the Labor Party.”

The president of the United States and most if not all of America’s and Israel’s left repeatedly describe this as “racist” and
anti-democratic.

That is a lie.

There is nothing racist or anti-democratic about the comment.

If “racist” actually means something — other than being useful as a left-wing epithet with which to regularly describe right-wingers (in America as well as Israel) — there is not a hint of racism in the comment. How exactly are Arab Israelis depicted negatively in this comment? Do not Democrats in America regularly inveigh against “old white males”? (like Quill does)
Nor is there a hint of disenfranchising Arab Israelis. The message to Netanyahu’s followers was simply an appeal to get to the polls because his political opponents appeared to be ensuring that as many Arab voters as possible got to the polls where they were expected to vote against him and his party.
Yet, not only is the accusation false, the comment on which it is based is almost universally mistranslated. Almost all citations of the phrase use the term “in droves” or, less frequently, “hordes of.” Both terms are far more derogatory than what Netanyahu actually said — “in great numbers” (kamuyot adirot). But because “great numbers” of Arab voters sounds considerably less disrespectful, the Western press prefers “in droves” and “hordes.” That’s how they can charge Netanyahu with “racism” never implied in the original Hebrew — by manipulating his words in translation.
On the day of the Israeli election, March 17, The New York Times correctly translated Netanyahu: “Right-wing rule is in danger. Arab voters are streaming in huge quantities to the polling stations.” But it has since joined the other mainstream media in using the inaccurate and loaded translation, “in droves.”
(To be sure, I do not think a leader of a country — who, after all is the leader of all groups in his country — should single out any group other than an ideological one as inherently politically problematic. But that is a far cry from any of the charges Obama and the left are making. Moreover, Netanyahu has since apologized to the Arab-Israeli community.)

You can see how the left easily manipulate when something is said

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:37 pm

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel apologized on Monday for making what were widely condemned as racist comments last week in saying that Arab citizens were voting in “droves.”

But even as he spoke with a group of Israeli Arabs gathered at his Jerusalem residence, the White House issued a new signal that it remained furious with Mr. Netanyahu for campaign comments that also appeared to close the door on a two-state solution to the Palestinian conflict.

In the days since the Israeli election, Mr. Netanyahu has been denounced for two statements he made toward the conclusion: his assertion that no Palestinian state would be established on his watch, and his alarm over voting by Israeli Arab citizens. He has been trying, with limited success, to backpedal on both.

In Washington, Denis McDonough, President Obama’s chief of staff, said in a speech Monday that Mr. Netanyahu’s pre-election assertions about Palestinian statehood were “very troubling.” It was the latest in a series of public scoldings by senior members of Mr. Obama’s team, including one by the president himself, rejecting the prime minister’s attempts to explain himself.

On the eve of the recent Israeli election, the prime minister said that no Palestinian state would be created on his watch. Two days later, he began to backtrack.

“After the election, the prime minister said that he had not changed his position, but for many in Israel and in the international community, such contradictory comments call into question his commitment to a two-state solution,” Mr. McDonough told the annual conference of J Street, a pro-Israel group aligned with the Democratic Party.

After the voting, Mr. Netanyahu said his reference to Israeli Arabs had not been intended to dissuade them from voting but to encourage his own supporters to cast ballots. He said his remarks on a Palestinian state had been widely misunderstood and that he still supported the idea but not under current conditions.

The White House was unmoved by the recalibration, and Mr. Obama offered harsh criticism of Mr. Netanyahu in an interview with The Huffington Post on Saturday.

While the White House spokesman, Josh Earnest, said Monday that it was appropriate for Mr. Netanyahu to apologize for his comments about Israeli Arabs, there was no sign of any softening from the administration over its anger with Mr. Netanyahu over his comments about the Palestinian question.

“We cannot simply pretend that these comments were never made,” Mr. McDonough said. He told a crowd of 3,000 at the J Street meeting that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank “must end.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/world/middleeast/netanyahu-apologizes-for-comments-about-israeli-arabs.html

They should never be forgotten, because they are the real face of a racist terrorist who wants the whole of Palestine and has plans to put illegal settlements in every part of it.

by Guest Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:40 pm

As seen the press are still twsiting what he said and he never said droves and yet they still elude to claiming he did.

“The right-wing rule is in danger. The Arab voters are coming in great numbers to the polling stations. The left-wing nonprofit organizations are bringing them in buses. Go out to the polling stations, bring your friends and family, and vote Mahal [Likud] in order to close the gap between us and the Labor Party.”

Was the lanaguage poor and in bad tates yes and hence why he rightly apologised and yet we still see the media printing incorectly what he said and which I stated in my previous post he rightly apologised.
Again I think he is damaging Israel this leader, but there is nothing worse when the left continue to pedal a lie.

If people do not believe me, then translate the following:

(kamuyot adirot).

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:12 am

Brasidas wrote:You just made the whole of israel as one with one person, that was racist beyond belief, as if they are one.

Do you mean like you are making the whole USA into Obama?

Brasidas wrote:Do you know what else you fail to grasp also Quill other than your poor racial views, is that Obama would never stop defending Israel if they were attacked.
Second if Obama goes ahead and creates a Palestine State without any say by Israel who fears more than anything an islamist palestine state, they will turn to Putin for backing, who would jump at the chance. Natanyahu bow has nothingt o stop him preventing a palestinisn state and will just annex Palestine, because the west can do nothing as happened in Syria, when Putin made his view clear Western intervention would not happen.
Either way Obama has to be really careful here to not end up with an Israel nation then in bed with Russia and Putin and he will be seen as the creation of this problem.

Dr. Obama is soon to leave office. But the American liberal community, and yes, the American Jewish community, will not soon forget Mr. Netanyahu's blatant land grab. You may suggest that this is not the entirety of Israel, but it was the move that got Mr. Natanyahu reelected. Elections are by the majority, so it is safe to say that the majority of Israel is in favor of stealing the Palestinian lands. End of discussion.

The threat of Mr. Putin swooping in and assuming the role of Israeli protector is ludicrous. Russian antisemitic sympathies are what helped to create Israel. If anything, they were worse than the Nazis. Do you think that Mr. Putin could turn around centuries of Slavic/Judaic acrimony?

It's ludicrous, but it doesn't matter. I imagine by now that all of Europe is on to Israel's expansionist plans. I would guess that even the European Jews are shocked. You can run, but you can't hide.

by veya_victaous Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:27 am

Israel has to be put in it's place by the USA
It doesn't have any negotiation power if it cannot behave like a grateful vassal nation than the USA should just take it ...
Literally no a single thing Israel could do since all it's weapon come from the USA..

This is exactly the problems the Roman's had too !!! Israel acting this way is what got the nation destroyed the first time round and here they are doing it again.

nature obviously does not want it to exists since it keeps acting like Netanyahu is towards superpowers.... evolution... the tiny claw less mouse that insults the lion that protects it gets eaten or at the minimum loses the protection of the lion.

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:56 am

veya_victaous wrote:Israel has to be put in it's place by the USA
It doesn't have any negotiation power if it cannot behave like a grateful vassal nation than the USA should just take it ...
Literally no a single thing Israel could do since all it's weapon come from the USA..

This is exactly the problems the Roman's had too !!! Israel acting this way is what got the nation destroyed the first time round and here they are doing it again.

nature obviously does not want it to exists since it keeps acting like Netanyahu is towards superpowers.... evolution... the tiny claw less mouse that insults the lion that protects it gets eaten or at the minimum loses the protection of the lion.

I think we are saying the same thing. In fact, that is the point that I am urging on didge so vociferously, and he doesn't get. America is backing Israel obsessively, and that may have just stopped.

Since Ronald Reagan, American Republicans have been obsessed with advancing the cause of Israel. What they miss is that that cause has gone from a defensive one, to an aggressive one. Mr. Netanyahu's blatant statement that Israel is all about a self-aware land grab has been a real wake-up call.

It's time to throttle back American pushing of Israeli interests, and settle into a more benign position.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:55 am

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:You just made the whole of israel as one with one person, that was racist beyond belief, as if they are one.

Do you mean like you are making the whole USA into Obama?

Brasidas wrote:Do you know what else you fail to grasp also Quill other than your poor racial views, is that Obama would never stop defending Israel if they were attacked.
Second if Obama goes ahead and creates a Palestine State without any say by Israel who fears more than anything an islamist palestine state, they will turn to Putin for backing, who would jump at the chance. Natanyahu bow has nothingt o stop him preventing a palestinisn state and will just annex Palestine, because the west can do nothing as happened in Syria, when Putin made his view clear Western intervention would not happen.
Either way Obama has to be really careful here to not end up with an Israel nation then in bed with Russia and Putin and he will be seen as the creation of this problem.

Dr. Obama is soon to leave office. But the American liberal community, and yes, the American Jewish community, will not soon forget Mr. Netanyahu's blatant land grab. You may suggest that this is not the entirety of Israel, but it was the move that got Mr. Natanyahu reelected. Elections are by the majority, so it is safe to say that the majority of Israel is in favor of stealing the Palestinian lands. End of discussion.

The threat of Mr. Putin swooping in and assuming the role of Israeli protector is ludicrous. Russian antisemitic sympathies are what helped to create Israel. If anything, they were worse than the Nazis. Do you think that Mr. Putin could turn around centuries of Slavic/Judaic acrimony?

It's ludicrous, but it doesn't matter. I imagine by now that all of Europe is on to Israel's expansionist plans. I would guess that even the European Jews are shocked. You can run, but you can't hide.

Dear me so after your racist view point you attempt tp make me the subject of your stupidity.
Hilarious, so now again you are making every single person culpable for electing him, which by the same definition we should do the same for then you being at fault for Bush being elected and Tony Blair and the palestinians at fault with Hamas.
The next point on Putin shows how far removed you are from the realms of reality, mainly because you have no idea of the bigger game being played out in the world today, or to the fact of the problems he has with islamic extremism.
To claim he is antisemitic has no bearing and is the ramblings of a racist commie as seen.
So that was the worst defkection I have ever seen to my points made.
You really are quite the pathetic boy it seems

by Irn Bru Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:27 am

Brasidas wrote:As seen the press are still twsiting what he said and he never said droves and yet they still elude to claiming he did.

“The right-wing rule is in danger. The Arab voters are coming in great numbers to the polling stations. The left-wing nonprofit organizations are bringing them in buses. Go out to the polling stations, bring your friends and family, and vote Mahal [Likud] in order to close the gap between us and the Labor Party.”

Was the lanaguage poor and in bad tates yes and hence why he rightly apologised and yet we still see the media printing incorectly what he said and which I stated in my previous post he rightly apologised.
Again I think he is damaging Israel this leader, but there is nothing worse when the left continue to pedal a lie.

If people do not believe me, then translate the following:

(kamuyot adirot).

Did you drag that up from a post by Dennis Prager in the Jewish Journal?

http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/from_ferguson_to_netanyahu

He's a radio chat show host citing an article from the New York Times filed by Isabel Kershner in March.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/18/world/middleeast/netanyahu-israel-elections-arabs.html?_r=1

It's always best to get to the source of what is being claimed before judging who is doing the twisting because she has been accused of doing just that in this article from FAIR and if you read it you can see why.

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/new-conflict-of-interest-at-nyt-jerusalem-bureau/

Never mind Didge and seeing as you are such an expert on all matters relating to Israel and you can translate what he is saying would you please do that for this part of his broadcast.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:33 am

Again I suggest you actually get the real words and translkate them and not go off poor wet claims irn as you have just proven that yoo do, you can even find this out for yourself and yet again you fell vitim to being a sheep once again.
The words are there, translate them if you dare

Good luck

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:38 am

“The Right-wing government is in danger. Arab voters are going en masse to the polls. Left-wing NGOs are bringing them on buses,” the prime minister said last week.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Netanyahu-apologizes-to-Arab-Israelis-for-Election-Day-remarks-394834

As I say the left are so bad at twisting words, for one because they arfe the biggest intolerant racists on this planet as seen by their antisemitism.

by Irn Bru Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:48 am

Brasidas wrote:“The Right-wing government is in danger. Arab voters are going en masse to the polls. Left-wing NGOs are bringing them on buses,” the prime minister said last week.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Netanyahu-apologizes-to-Arab-Israelis-for-Election-Day-remarks-394834

As I say the left are so bad at twisting words, for one because they arfe the biggest intolerant racists on this planet as seen by their antisemitism.

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu apologized to Israel’s Arab citizens on Monday for remarks he made during last week’s parliament election that offended members of the community.

The move appeared to be an attempt to heal rifts and mute criticism at home and in the United States. Mr. Netanyahu drew accusations of racism in Israel, especially from its Arab minority, and a White House rebuke when, just a few hours before polling stations were to close across the country, he warned that Arab citizens were voting “in droves.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/23/critics-reject-benjamin-netanyahus-apology-for-warning-that-israeli-arabs-were-voting-in-droves/

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am

See still going off bad translations, I gave you one that was an israeli source which is not uncritical of him, showing how bad you are at research Irn

Thanks for proving my point again how decietful the left really are.

Again I suggest you learn to translate hebrew

by Irn Bru Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:05 am

Crikey, even the President is getting stuck into him.

President Reuven Rivlin, who is consulting with Israel’s parties about who should form the next government, yesterday criticized Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s controversial Election Day remarks about Arab voters “heading to the polls in droves.”

http://www.haaretz.com/.premium-1.648256

Didge, you were suggesting that people should translate this if they didn't believe you - (kamuyot adirot)

Always get to the original source article on controversial stuff like this Didge - it's the best way.

Anyway, I've got work to do so catch you later - meantime you can read that article in FAIR about Kershner - the person who filed the article which the radio chat show host used in his post.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:09 am

Yes i am suggesting that you actually research yourself and stop being gullible as you are to how the media change something to make a news item.
To claim the President is about as lame as it can get.
Once again i suggest you actually translate what is said and see for yourself how wrong you have been

Good luck

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:46 pm

Brasides wrote:Hilarious, so now again you are making every single person culpable for electing him [Netanyahu], which by the same definition we should do the same for then you being at fault for Bush being elected...

Oh my...and here you are berating Irn for his research skills, and you don't even know that Bush was not elected to his first term. He lost the election to Vice-President Al Gore. The Republican Supreme Court instated Mr. Bush after the outcome was challenged in court. Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000). The Supreme Court's decision was unconstitutional and blatantly political, and even the Justices stated that it should never be cited as precedent.

This bears no comparison to Netanyahu's victory. It was a victory by a clear majority, and stands as a referendum on Netanyahu's campaign statements. No two state solution, was his political promise. And then Israel voted. You can't two-step your way out of that one. Clearly Israel is dead-set against any second state for Palestine.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasides wrote:Hilarious, so now again you are making every single person culpable for electing him [Netanyahu], which by the same definition we should do the same for then you being at fault for Bush being elected...

Oh my...and here you are berating Irn for his research skills, and you don't even know that Bush was not elected to his first term. He lost the election to Vice-President Al Gore. The Republican Supreme Court instated Mr. Bush after the outcome was challenged in court. The Supreme Court's decision was unconstitutional and blatantly political, and even the Justices stated that it should never be cited as precedent.

This bears no comparison to Netanyahu's victory. It was a victory by a clear majority, and stands as a referendum on Netanyahu's campaign statements. No two state solution, was his political platform. And then Israel voted. You can't two-step your way out of that one. Clearly Israel is dead-set against any second state for Palestine.

Yet again deflecting from the point you made on me to now when he was elected.
That miisses the whole point you made where in reverse you have no answer lol
A majoirty of 32 seats which he needs to gain a coalition over, which shows you really do not understand the Polictics.
That means some of israel voted and you are now making all its citizens culpable including those who did not vote for him including the Arabs
That is utterly stupid it does not even warrant me further replying to that stupdiity

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:50 pm

The latest tally gives Likud 30 seats in the 120-seat parliament, the Knesset, with Zionist Union on 24 seats.

So according to Quill all Israel backed Netanyahu where clearly in 90 seats they did not agree with his words then did they.

DOH

So funny

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:54 pm

I will be back later, but next time spare me your racial ppor views of trying to place all Israeli's as of the same clothe, that was utterly poor.

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:54 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Oh my...and here you are berating Irn for his research skills, and you don't even know that Bush was not elected to his first term. He lost the election to Vice-President Al Gore. The Republican Supreme Court instated Mr. Bush after the outcome was challenged in court. The Supreme Court's decision was unconstitutional and blatantly political, and even the Justices stated that it should never be cited as precedent.

This bears no comparison to Netanyahu's victory. It was a victory by a clear majority, and stands as a referendum on Netanyahu's campaign statements. No two state solution, was his political platform. And then Israel voted. You can't two-step your way out of that one. Clearly Israel is dead-set against any second state for Palestine.

Yet again deflecting from the point you made on me to now when he was elected.
That miisses the whole point you made where in reverse you have no answer lol
A majoirty of 32 seats which he needs to gain a coalition over, which shows you really do not understand the Polictics.
That means some of israel voted and you are now making all its citizens culpable including those who did not vote for him including the Arabs
That is utterly stupid it does not even warrant me further replying to that stupdiity

Are you suggesting that Netanyahu wasn't elected? Or are you suggesting Israel is not democratic? If Israel abides by democratic systems, and Netanyahu ends up as Prime Minister, by what fancy dance to you say the majority did not support his major campaign promise...there will be no two state solution?

Was that the old basic, box-step, or a fast waltz?

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:59 pm

New York Times wrote:Netanyahu Told to Mend Ties With Washington

JERUSALEM — Israel’s president on Wednesday officially handed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu the task of forming a new government, saying its first priority was to repair relations with the United States and indirectly chiding Mr. Netanyahu for his Election Day warning that Arab citizens were flocking to polling places in “droves.”

“One who is afraid of votes in a ballot box will eventually see stones thrown in the streets,” the president, Reuven Rivlin, said as he ceremonially received the certified results of last week’s election. Later, standing next to Mr. Netanyahu, he described “a difficult election period” in which “things were said which ought not to be said — not in a Jewish state and not in a democratic state.”
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Mr. Netanyahu apologized this week for expressing concern in a video about Arab turnout, remarks that the White House, world leaders, American Jews and many inside Israel had condemned as race-baiting and fearmongering. As he accepted the mandate for a fourth term, the prime minister did not revisit the uproar over those remarks or directly address his pre-election disavowal of support for a Palestinian state, which together have drawn unrelenting criticism from President Obama and his aides.

“Our hands are held out in peace towards our Palestinian neighbors, and the people of Israel know that true peace will only be guaranteed if Israel remains powerful, both in spirit and in strength,” Mr. Netanyahu said Wednesday.

“We greatly appreciate, and will keep our pact with, the closest of our friends, the United States of America,” he continued, “and we will nonetheless continue to act to prevent the unfolding deal with Iran, an agreement which puts in danger us, our neighbors, the world.”

Mr. Netanyahu now has up to six weeks to form a governing coalition, an internecine process of deal-making over ministerial posts and policy positions. He is widely expected to do so with six rightist and religious parties that together won 67 of Parliament’s 120 seats, though some Israeli analysts said the crisis in relations with Washington had increased the pressure on him to form a unity government with the center-left Zionist Union or the centrist Yesh Atid, or both.

Senior members of Mr. Netanyahu’s Likud party and the heads of the ultranationalist Jewish Home and Yisrael Beiteinu factions are all vying for the Foreign and Defense Ministries. Mr. Netanyahu has promised the finance position to Moshe Kahlon, a former Likud minister who formed Kulanu, a faction that focused on economic issues.

On Wednesday, Mr. Netanyahu vowed that the government’s first budget would include steps to reduce the cost of housing and food and dismantle monopolies, tenets of Mr. Kahlon’s campaign.

Mr. Rivlin, a Likud member whose term as president has been marked by outreach to Israel’s 1.7 million Arab citizens and residents, said Mr. Netanyahu should make the government “as inclusive as possible.”

Alongside improving relations with the United States, other “critical missions” for the new government, according to Mr. Rivlin, include returning stability to the political system to avoid another early election, and “healing the wounds, mending the painful rifts, which have gaped open in the past years, and widened further in the course of this recent election.”

I think the cat is out of the bag, but good luck Mr. Netanyahu.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Yet again deflecting from the point you made on me to now when he was elected.
That miisses the whole point you made where in reverse you have no answer lol
A majoirty of 32 seats which he needs to gain a coalition over, which shows you really do not understand the Polictics.
That means some of israel voted and you are now making all its citizens culpable including those who did not vote for him including the Arabs
That is utterly stupid it does not even warrant me further replying to that stupdiity

Are you suggesting that Netanyahu wasn't elected? Or are you suggesting Israel is not democratic? If Israel abides by democratic systems, and Netanyahu ends up as Prime Minister, by what fancy dance to you say the majority did not support his major campaign promise...there will be no two state solution?

Was that the old basic, box-step, or a fast waltz?

You seriously have lost the plot, how many seats did his party win?
You said the people flocked to vote for him when one quarter did and 3 quarters did not.
Seems your maths is appalling.

by Original Quill Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:38 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Are you suggesting that Netanyahu wasn't elected? Or are you suggesting Israel is not democratic? If Israel abides by democratic systems, and Netanyahu ends up as Prime Minister, by what fancy dance to you say the majority did not support his major campaign promise...there will be no two state solution?

Was that the old basic, box-step, or a fast waltz?

You seriously have lost the plot, how many seats did his party win?
You said the people flocked to vote for him when one quarter did and 3 quarters did not.
Seems your maths is appalling.

Are you saying people didn't know Netanyahu would be reelected as Prime Minister? That's what it sounds like.

I think people are more savvy that you give them credit for. I think they listened and supported Netanyahu, and knowingly voted in a manner which would reelect him to the Prime Minister post.

If you know otherwise, I would love to hear about it. We all would.

by Guest Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

You seriously have lost the plot, how many seats did his party win?
You said the people flocked to vote for him when one quarter did and 3 quarters did not.
Seems your maths is appalling.

Are you saying people didn't know Netanyahu would be reelected as Prime Minister? That's what it sounds like.

I think people are more savvy that you give them credit for. I think they listened and supported Netanyahu, and knowingly voted in a manner which would reelect him to the Prime Minister post.

If you know otherwise, I would love to hear about it. We all would.

Like I said, it is not worth me debating such ignorance.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 am

Obama-Netanyahu Tiff worsens: US won’t rule out using UN to create Palestine Emily-stoecker-quote-mr-cullen-you-look-distant-and-aloof-but-i-know

You're all right, didge. Carry on... Laughing

by Irn Bru Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:44 pm

Brasidas wrote:Yes i am suggesting that you actually research yourself and stop being gullible as you are to how the media change something to make a news item.
To claim the President is about as lame as it can get.
Once again i suggest you actually translate what is said and see for yourself how wrong you have been

Good luck

Hey Didge, unlike you I do the research by getting to the source of the information and in this case it led to Isabel Kershner who has serious form for extreme bias in the articles she publishes and if you had read the article filed by FAIR you would have seen why.

You on the other hand threw everything into a post in a blog by a radio chat show host using that to try and claim that lefties were easily manipulated. Your argument is completely ridiculous as if using ‘droves’ instead of ‘great numbers’ made any difference at all. If anything all you have done is show that it is you that is easily manipulated by reading second hand information and not getting to the original source. It’s a mistake you make so often but I suppose one day you will learn.

Now can we wrap this up once and for all with you translating his speech in full? After all I did ask you for that early on in this thread.....remember?

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:54 pm

Clearly you are not a good researcher then Irn
The correct translation has been posted, by me if you read back and not from any blog.
Second "droves" is very much more derogatory, even more so when you actually understand the meaning of the word.

a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.

It would be then very much degrading to cast them as being without conscious thought but by just following others. Saying great numbers is clearly not as bad and again I have never denied that the view was poor, as I still eluded to this, where my point is by changing one word, you can make the sentence sound far worse

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:00 pm

Anyway, let me know how you get on Irn, as am busy tonight, so will have to catch up tomorrow.
So have a good weekend,

by Irn Bru Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:02 pm

Brasidas wrote:Clearly you are not a good researcher then Irn
The correct translation has been posted, by me if you read back and not from any blog.
Second "droves" is very much more derogatory, even more so when you actually understand the meaning of the word.

a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.

It would be then very much degrading to cast them as being without conscious thought but by just following others. Saying great numbers is clearly not as bad and again I have never denied that the view was poor, as I still eluded to this, where my point is by changing one word, you can make the sentence sound far worse

Haven't seen the full translation of his speech by you Didge. Can you post it again please?

Ta

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:06 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Clearly you are not a good researcher then Irn
The correct translation has been posted, by me if you read back and not from any blog.
Second "droves" is very much more derogatory, even more so when you actually understand the meaning of the word.

a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.

It would be then very much degrading to cast them as being without conscious thought but by just following others. Saying great numbers is clearly not as bad and again I have never denied that the view was poor, as I still eluded to this, where my point is by changing one word, you can make the sentence sound far worse

Haven't seen the full translation of his speech by you Didge. Can you post it again please?

Ta

You want me to repeat what I have already posted.
Not my problem you missed it, read back.

Night then

by Irn Bru Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:07 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Clearly you are not a good researcher then Irn
The correct translation has been posted, by me if you read back and not from any blog.
Second "droves" is very much more derogatory, even more so when you actually understand the meaning of the word.

a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.

It would be then very much degrading to cast them as being without conscious thought but by just following others. Saying great numbers is clearly not as bad and again I have never denied that the view was poor, as I still eluded to this, where my point is by changing one word, you can make the sentence sound far worse

Haven't seen the full translation of his speech by you Didge. Can you post it again please?

Ta

You want me to repeat what I have already posted.
Not my problem you missed it, read back.

Night then

The speech - where?

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:11 pm

Read back, simple buddy.

Right its clear you are trying to do one of your poor games of a merry dance, hey ho. Sorry that is boring and very infantile.
Again read back

Until tomorrow

by Irn Bru Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:16 pm

Brasidas wrote:Read back, simple buddy.

Right its clear you are trying to do one of your poor games of a merry dance, hey ho. Sorry that is boring and very infantile.
Again read back

Until tomorrow

The speech translation ain't there Didge. Don't let me keep you lol

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:27 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Read back, simple buddy.

Right its clear you are trying to do one of your poor games of a merry dance, hey ho. Sorry that is boring and very infantile.
Again read back

Until tomorrow

The speech translation ain't there Didge. Don't let me keep you lol

You keep proving my view points on how the extreme left are.

Its there Irn, you either go back and check or you do not and continue to act like an infant, playing a 2 years old game. Your choice really, but I do not jump to what you think I should do for you. You are posting as a poster and do not create rules to suit or move the goal posts to suit as you do thinking I should bow down to you. That is just comical.
Now unless you have anything to add, then there is nothing left to discuss between us both on this thread.

Enjoy and that is my last post of the evening.

by Guest Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:30 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Read back, simple buddy.

Right its clear you are trying to do one of your poor games of a merry dance, hey ho. Sorry that is boring and very infantile.
Again read back

Until tomorrow

The speech translation ain't there Didge. Don't let me keep you lol

You're right, the speech translation isn't there. It is on your video though lol

by Irn Bru Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:33 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Brasidas wrote:Read back, simple buddy.

Right its clear you are trying to do one of your poor games of a merry dance, hey ho. Sorry that is boring and very infantile.
Again read back

Until tomorrow

The speech translation ain't there Didge. Don't let me keep you lol

You keep proving my view points on how the extreme left are.

Its there Irn, you either go back and check or you do not and continue to act like an infant, playing a 2 years old game. Your choice really, but I do not jump to what you think I should do for you. You are posting as a poster and do not create rules to suit or move the goal posts to suit as you do thinking I should bow down to you. That is just comical.
Now unless you have anything to add, then there is nothing left to discuss between us both on this thread.

Enjoy and that is my last post of the evening.

Obama-Netanyahu Tiff worsens: US won’t rule out using UN to create Palestine 9k=

by nicko Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:40 am

Reading the mention of" Droves" took me back a few years. I went Wildfowling on the Wash, [ a place of Marsh and Mud on the east coast] I stayed in a house in a little village called Gedney Drove End not far from the Wash.I was told it was named after the Drover's, the men who drove the sheep to Market. I nearly drowned there, but that's another story.

by Irn Bru Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:58 pm

by Irn Bru Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:12 pm

Obama-Netanyahu Tiff worsens: US won’t rule out using UN to create Palestine Droves11

Settled then

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