Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:57 am

Almost 5,000 have already signed the petition, calling for action against members of the crowd who even took selfies moments before the tragic man plunged to his death

Thousands are signing a petition demanding that police identify and prosecute those who encouraged a suicidal man to jump to his death from a multi-storey car park.

Shocking reports emerged yesterday of crowds taunting the man who was threatening to jump from a shopping centre's car park, with police condemning their behaviour.

The unnamed man, understood to be in his 40s, stood for more than two hours from the high distance on Saturday as members of the crowd filmed the harrowing incident on their phones, with some even taking selfies.

Police witnessed the shocking behaviour at the the busy Southwater shopping centre in Telford, Shropshire, at around 1pm.

Specialist negotiators were even deployed in an attempt to talk him down, but he jumped to his death from the car park at 3.40pm

Taunts shouted at the tragic victim included "Get on with it", "Go on, jump," and some even chanting: "How far can you bounce?".

But now almost 5,000 have signed a petition demanding police action.

The petition, set up yesterday by local Ceri Ransome, reads: "We the undersigned request that West Mercia Police take immediate action to find, arrest and charge the people who encouraged a man to jump to his death from a multi storey building in Telford on Saturday 14th March 2015.

"The family deserve this justice and the people of Telford want these people to be held accountable for their vile behaviour and complete lack of compassion.

"This petition also appeals to the Shropshire Star to name and shame these people. Our thoughts and condolences are with the family and friends of the man concerned at this sad time."

Police have since confirmed that they will seek to identify offenders who taunted him and arrest them.

Mark O’Connor, a detective sergeant for West Mercia police, said: “We do not condone such behaviour, and would hope that the local community would work with our officers to provide information regarding those who committed the cruel taunts.

"This was clearly someone who was in need of support.

“In response to the activity on social media, the origin of any comments or material that is deemed to be unlawful will be investigated and appropriate police action will be taken against any identified individual.

"I would urge that any person who is in possession of any related material does not publish it any further and ensures it is disposed of.”

One witness to the horrific incident, Chloe Jones, told the BBC: "As we walked past, there were some youths shouting ‘Go on, do it – jump’.

“It made me feel quite sick, actually, and then a lot of them were filming it, but to see some grown men filming it … I just said to them ‘What on earth are you going to do with that footage? Are you going to home and watch it if that poor man jumps?’”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/telford-suicide-thousands-sign-petition-5347573

How can people DO that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor man must have been in a terrible state, how can people not feel for him and egg him on. Disgusting cretins, hope they get locked away.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:09 am

As much as it is appalling how people acted here and they should all be ashamed of themselves, there is no way the Police would be able to charge any of them with anything.
What crime have they committed?
No prosecuter would be able to prove anyone individual here would have been the motivating factor that made the person jump.
Sadly there is some very sick morbid people out there, but they have not committed any crime, not one that would stick that is for sure.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:05 pm

I agree didge. Moreover, even if we did have such a law--call it a law forbidding taunting suicide--consider the other consequences, in other contexts.

Could we prosecute GWB, Richard Cheney and Connie Rice for taunting a suicidal war, where 'mentally challenged' soldiers voluntarily went to their death? A damn good argument could be made. Anyone who willingly goes into a war zone must be foreseeably suicidal.

But hark! They call it gallant and brave. Go figure.

by nicko Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:46 pm

In some of the situations i'v been in, it's a bloody good job I didn't have you as back up.

There's a word for you, starts with c and ends in a d.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:35 pm

nicko wrote:In some of the situations i'v been in, it's a bloody good job I didn't have you as back up.

There's a word for you, starts with c and ends in a d.

You would be lucky to have me--as a back-up or as a lead. I can do something that is very rare amid conflict and turmoil: I can think!! I would probably save you, and a hundred more like you in a war.

First, by thinking before starting a war. Second, by keeping uppermost the objective. And third, by knowing when enough is enough.

You? You would probably be dropped from my unit before completion of training. You talk too much...all glory and no guts:

Pride is the cowardly soldier,
Pompous in parade,
But fights poorly in the field...
---tommy walker

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:37 pm

I have to say Quill that was low considering he has seen plenty of action and would hardly call that cowardly.
No matter whether you believe a conflict is right or wrong, many go into combat because this is the job they signed up to do. They are there for their family, their brothers in arms, so that was very uncalled for on your part to say that to Nicko.
He has the experince of combat and war, you do not.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:42 pm

Brasidas wrote:I have to say Quill that was low considering he has seen plenty of action and would hardly call that cowardly.
No matter whether you believe a conflict is right or wrong, many go into combat because this is the job they signed up to do. They are there for their family, their brothers in arms, so that was very uncalled for on your part to say that to Nicko.
He has the experince of combat and war, you do not.

One of the things about a thinking man is, you can suffer no fools. Much as I lov 'ol nicko, he talks too much about it. The rule is: don't talk the talk, but do walk the walk.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:I have to say Quill that was low considering he has seen plenty of action and would hardly call that cowardly.
No matter whether you believe a conflict is right or wrong, many go into combat because this is the job they signed up to do. They are there for their family, their brothers in arms, so that was very uncalled for on your part to say that to Nicko.
He has the experince of combat and war, you do not.

One of the things about a thinking man is, you can suffer no fools. Much as I lov 'ol nicko, he talks too much about it. The rule is: don't talk the talk, but do walk the walk.

Still of no relevance as I think as I do people have respect for those who have seen combat, mainly as most people could not do such a role. Even more how they cope with the horrors they have seen afterwards. Hence why most people do not make a mockery of their lives serving.

Laters

by nicko Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:49 pm

A little poem for you Quill.

Well it's Tommy this and Tommy that

and chuck him out the brute,

but it's savior of his country

when the guns begin to shoot!
AS for you you are a fcuking coward, but I'd still put my life on the line to help you.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:59 pm

nicko wrote:A little poem for you Quill.

Well it's Tommy this and Tommy that

and chuck him out the brute,

but it's savior of his country

when the guns begin to shoot!
AS for you you are a fcuking coward, but I'd still put my life on the line to help you.

More and more words, nick. Cleaning latrines, were you? Working the chow line? Your frame of mind is compensatory...something is bothering you. You weren't really there, were you?

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:14 pm

You disgusting old windbag. Nicko and I might be polls apart politically, but you are in a class of your own for being an undisguised pompous blabbermouth. How dare you. What war have you fought in Quill? Cos I'll take a bet you were old enough to be called up for Vietnam and you didn't go did you? Daddy paid it off for you did he? Who the frigging hell do you think you are disrespecting what someone else did for their country? I have seen you lie, I have seen you be crass in the extreme, but now you have reached a new low even for you.

This thread was about people who disrespected and egged on someone to kill themselves. You have just shown you are the same kind of person.

Pond life.

This thread was not about you, but you couldn't resist making it that way could you?

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:20 pm

Oh, and by the way, in America you can be charged with manslaughter for encouraging someone to commit suicide, you should have known that.
http://www.infowars.com/teen-charged-with-manslaughter-after-she-allegedly-encouraged-friend-to-commit-suicide/

You can be charged with involuntary manslaughter here as well:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972283/Michelle-Carter-18-encouraged-friend-life-raised-money-name.html

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:27 pm

risingsun wrote:Oh, and by the way, in America you can be charged with manslaughter for encouraging someone to commit suicide, you should have known that.
http://www.infowars.com/teen-charged-with-manslaughter-after-she-allegedly-encouraged-friend-to-commit-suicide/

You can be charged with involuntary manslaughter here as well:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972283/Michelle-Carter-18-encouraged-friend-life-raised-money-name.html

Nobody disputed that, what was pointed out to you is how a prosecutur is going to be able to place any of them at fault to the poing the person decided to jump.
It is impossible and why they would be no case to press any criminal charges, which is the point you are missing.
As can you say which person was instrumental in making him decide to jump if any?
The whole thing no matter how poor and disgusting by those who did encourage would be impossible to determine based off the fact there was so many of them.

by Original Quill Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:48 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

One of the things about a thinking man is, you can suffer no fools. Much as I lov 'ol nicko, he talks too much about it. The rule is: don't talk the talk, but do walk the walk.

Still of no relevance as I think as I do people have respect for those who have seen combat, mainly as most people could not do such a role. Even more how they cope with the horrors they have seen afterwards. Hence why most people do not make a mockery of their lives serving.

Laters

Perhaps you need to rethink this thing of war. There is a long--and undeserved--history of glamorizing warfare. Kings used to make their names by going to war; they also used to run away when things went badly. It's the same today. Nearly 5,000 Americans lie dead from Iraq, and GWB, Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld--the runners--live out their lives making $15, 000 on the talking circuit.

There is nothing glamorous about wars or armies, and quite frequently a great deal of deceit involved. We need to get over it. No more flags, banners or cymbals. No more spit-polished boots. It's an empty symbol.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Still of no relevance as I think as I do people have respect for those who have seen combat, mainly as most people could not do such a role. Even more how they cope with the horrors they have seen afterwards. Hence why most people do not make a mockery of their lives serving.

Laters

Perhaps you need to rethink this thing of war. There is a long--and undeserved--history of glamorizing warfare. Kings used to make their names by going to war; they also used to run away when things went badly. It's the same today. Nearly 5,000 Americans lie dead from Iraq, and GWB, Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld--the runners--live out their lives making $15, 000 on the talking circuit.

There is nothing glamorous about wars or armies, and quite frequently a great deal of deceit involved. We need to get over it. No more flags, banners or cymbals. No more spit-polished boots. It's an empty symbol.

That shows you did not understand a single point I made did you Quill?
Do you need me to dumb it down for you?
Oh there is many glourious things done in war, they are called bringing forth freedom for people under subjucation, defeating those trying to wipe out groups of people. We look in great honour of those who took up this fight.
So you really have much to learn in the art of war itself.
The fact is when many people gioves their lives in the fight for freedom of others it is on every aspect one of the most biggest sacrifices humans can give which deserves the greatest honour.
If you wish to be some lame wet lefty who would shit your pants at the first sign of incoming fire, that is your choice, but others will rightly show respect to those who have fought in combat, no matter if they are even the enemy, as is the case today in how we look back at former enemies like the Germans and Japanese.
That is because many sign up to fight for their country and the men besides them, something it seems that is beyond your comprehension and the very fact many of them are exceedingly gallant, more than you could hope to achieve yourself if you lived a million life times.
You turn something about the causes into war to blames those who end up fighting them. That is poor and shows why many people would show you the least respect for your wet insulting comments.

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:08 pm

I can't post anything but look up Suicide Act 1961, section 2.

It is illegal to 'counsel' someone to commit suicide. I think these taunts qualify as counselling.

by eddie Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:10 pm

Oh my God. I cannot believe people would taunt a man and egg him on to jump???????
And selfies????

Good god. What tyoe of a society have we become?

I'm actually lost for words.

by eddie Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:10 pm

Oh and Quill?
That was low, your remark to Nicko.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:10 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:I can't post anything but look up Suicide Act 1961, section 2.

It is illegal to 'counsel' someone to commit suicide. I think these taunts qualify as counselling.

Again who do you prove beyond doubt was instrumental in making the person decide if at all any did?
This is the problem you are going to face, where there is so many people involved.
It is far too subjective to prosecute.

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:13 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:I can't post anything but look up Suicide Act 1961, section 2.

It is illegal to 'counsel' someone to commit suicide. I think these taunts qualify as counselling.

Again who do you prove beyond doubt was instrumental in making the person decide if at all any did?
This is the problem you are going to face, where there is so many people involved.
It is far too subjective to prosecute.

There's video evidence somewhere.

The CPS will probably select few extreme cases to make an example.

Who knows. But the law is there.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:14 pm

After those comments quill, what little respect I ever had for you is gone.

YOU are not fit to clean the boots of men like nicko

I;ll put money on the fact that you havnt even been involved in civilian disaster relief, let alone combat...So dont presume to know what he has seen done or been through...

total ignoramus..

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:16 pm

eddie wrote:Oh my God. I cannot believe people would taunt a man and egg him on to jump???????
And selfies????

Good god. What tyoe of a society have we become?

I'm actually lost for words.

one on the verge of the abyss

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:18 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Again who do you prove beyond doubt was instrumental in making the person decide if at all any did?
This is the problem you are going to face, where there is so many people involved.
It is far too subjective to prosecute.

There's video evidence somewhere.

The CPS will probably select few extreme cases to make an example.

Who knows. But the law is there.

Again how do you prove any of them made the person jump or that what they said had any impact?
I doubt very much any would be able to stand up in court as it just would be too difficult to prove.
Remember it has to be beyond reasonable doubt.

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:20 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

There's video evidence somewhere.

The CPS will probably select few extreme cases to make an example.

Who knows. But the law is there.

Again how do you prove any of them made the person jump or that what they said had any impact?
I doubt very much any would be able to stand up in court as it just would be too difficult to prove.
Remember it has to be beyond reasonable doubt.

That would depend on how the law defines 'counselling' and whether a particular taunt matches that description.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:21 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Again how do you prove any of them made the person jump or that what they said had any impact?
I doubt very much any would be able to stand up in court as it just would be too difficult to prove.
Remember it has to be beyond reasonable doubt.

That would depend on how the law defines 'counselling' and whether a particular taunt matches that description.

Again you would have to prove beyond doubt that it was one or all specific taunts that made the person jump, which would be impossible to determine, where the person may well have jumped without.
All I am saying is you have a near to next impossible chance of determining guilt here.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Still of no relevance as I think as I do people have respect for those who have seen combat, mainly as most people could not do such a role. Even more how they cope with the horrors they have seen afterwards. Hence why most people do not make a mockery of their lives serving.

Laters

Perhaps you need to rethink this thing of war. There is a long--and undeserved--history of glamorizing warfare. Kings used to make their names by going to war; they also used to run away when things went badly. It's the same today. Nearly 5,000 Americans lie dead from Iraq, and GWB, Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld--the runners--live out their lives making $15, 000 on the talking circuit.

There is nothing glamorous about wars or armies, and quite frequently a great deal of deceit involved. We need to get over it. No more flags, banners or cymbals. No more spit-polished boots. It's an empty symbol.

I'm quite sure Nicko knows there is nothing glamorous about war, as he has actually been there, as has my OH and my Dad, and my grandad had his twin blown up beside him.

You, on the other hand, after your remarks, are a sick shit who probably weaseled his way out of the Vietnam draft, not because of any principle, but because you were a crying coward.

I have absolutely every respect for conscientous objectors, because they are actually fighting for something and take all the abuse that is thrown at them, but you are just scum.

And then you have the fucking audacity to tell us that America 'rescued us' in WWII. Well you wouldn't have done, you would have hidden behind your Mum's skirts.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:35 pm

Brasidas wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

That would depend on how the law defines 'counselling' and whether a particular taunt matches that description.

Again you would have to prove beyond doubt that it was one or all specific taunts that made the person jump, which would be impossible to determine, where the person may well have jumped without.
All I am saying is you have a near to next impossible chance of determining guilt here.

Doubt they can prosecute as you say but naming and shaming would be a start

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:41 pm

Nems wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Again you would have to prove beyond doubt that it was one or all specific taunts that made the person jump, which would be impossible to determine, where the person may well have jumped without.
All I am saying is you have a near to next impossible chance of determining guilt here.

Doubt they can prosecute as you say but naming and shaming would be a start

Agree on that Nems on the main stream news and the press.
Good idea

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:58 pm

yeah...that worked well when that newspaper a bit back "named and shamed" those paedos didnt it...

how many innocent people got caught up in that????

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:58 pm

this kind of mentality is why we have LAWS in this country.....

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:00 pm

and NO didge ...I DONT condone what the idiots did.....before you "invent "conflate" /whatever such an inference....

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:01 pm

darknessss wrote:this kind of mentality is why we have LAWS in this country.....

Exactly, and the girl prosecuted had not even encouraged the person face to face but on Facebook, so if they have video's of people actually doing it, they should prosecute.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:04 pm

darknessss wrote:yeah...that worked well when that newspaper a bit back "named and shamed" those paedos didnt it...

how many innocent people got caught up in that????

You think I have any sympathy for paedos being ousted.
You are speaking to the wrong person and in this case if these people get named and shamed.
Tough shit, maybe they will think twice about being such twats again.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:15 pm

darknessss wrote:this kind of mentality is why we have LAWS in this country.....

I think you are neglecting one small fact here that the law is going to be able to do naff all in this instance.
To go off where a mistake has been made on naming and shaming is not a reason to not shame, but to make sure you get it right like they did with the racist Chelsea fans. Even then if people want to name and shame there is bugger all you can do about it with the facilities on the internet these days and to me if you place yourself into a situation being vile scum then you should have no complaints if you are posted all over the internet being vile.
Sometimes the law does not go far enough, I think its time you understood that.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:16 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:yeah...that worked well when that newspaper a bit back "named and shamed" those paedos didnt it...

how many innocent people got caught up in that????

You think I have any sympathy for paedos being ousted.
You are speaking to the wrong person and in this case if these people get named and shamed.
Tough shit, maybe they will think twice about being such twats again.

so you think the fact that a number of innocent people got caught up in the naming and shaming job was ok then??

you think mob violence is a solution?

what happens when they publish a photo of someone who wasnt actually there "for the wrong reason" (as inevitably some WILL be)

you think that a public neck tie party for that person is ok...just as long as you get the other bad guys....

perhaps it was his fault "just for being there"

cool.....you will soon have completed your jourrney to the dark side young didge

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:19 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:this kind of mentality is why we have LAWS in this country.....

I think you are neglecting one small fact here that the law is going to be able to do naff all in this instance.
To go off where a mistake has been made on naming and shaming is not a reason to not shame, but to make sure you get it right

subject to the penalty of 1 00 million pounds compo for any they get wrong....just as an incentive to make sure they get it right....

like they did with the racist Chelsea fans. Even then if people want to name and shame there is bugger all you can do about it with the facilities on the internet these days and to me if you place yourself into a situation being vile scum then you should have no complaints if you are posted all over the internet being vile.
Sometimes the law does not go far enough, I think its time you understood that.

in which case you seem to think that its ok to the "take the law into your own hands"???....

if I had suggested that you would be sat there ripping strips of skin off and rubbing salt in......

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:20 pm

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

You think I have any sympathy for paedos being ousted.
You are speaking to the wrong person and in this case if these people get named and shamed.
Tough shit, maybe they will think twice about being such twats again.

so you think the fact that a number of innocent people got caught up in the naming and shaming job was ok then??

you think mob violence is a solution?

what happens when they publish a photo of someone who wasnt actually there "for the wrong reason" (as inevitably some WILL be)

you think that a public neck tie party for that person is ok...just as long as you get the other bad guys....

perhaps it was his fault "just for being there"

cool.....you will soon have completed your jourrney to the dark side young didge

Never said it was okay some people wrongly got named and shamed, that was an error, which does not mean you should not name and shame off a bad mistake.
You are never going to stop things like this being posted on the web, like to see you try for a start.
You really come out like w wet fish half the time, I take the view they will show videos of people actuallky saying doing wrong, stol being a wet sap. Do I believe in mob rule for paedo's dam straight I do as our justice service is an utter joke in handing out the right sentence.
Stop being a wat on the dark side, I am not the idiot wanting to shoot people just because they are townies you loon

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:22 pm

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

I think you are neglecting one small fact here that the law is going to be able to do naff all in this instance.
To go off where a mistake has been made on naming and shaming is not a reason to not shame, but to make sure you get it right

subject to the penalty of 1 00 million pounds compo for any they get wrong....just as an incentive to make sure they get it right....

like they did with the racist Chelsea fans. Even then if people want to name and shame there is bugger all you can do about it with the facilities on the internet these days and to me if you place yourself into a situation being vile scum then you should have no complaints if you are posted all over the internet being vile.
Sometimes the law does not go far enough, I think its time you understood that.

in which case you seem to think that its ok to the "take the law into your own hands"???....

if I had suggested that you would be sat there ripping strips of skin off and rubbing salt in......

The law does not go far enough in certain situiations, it is far too soft, so in some aspects yes I do believe in judgement to those that harm children.
If that is too much for your constitution, well that is your problem not mione.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:22 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:

so you think the fact that a number of innocent people got caught up in the naming and shaming job was ok then??

you think mob violence is a solution?

what happens when they publish a photo of someone who wasnt actually there "for the wrong reason" (as inevitably some WILL be)

you think that a public neck tie party for that person is ok...just as long as you get the other bad guys....

perhaps it was his fault "just for being there"

cool.....you will soon have completed your jourrney to the dark side young didge

Never said it was okay some people wrongly got named and shamed, that was an error, which does not mean you should not name and shame off a bad mistake.
You are never going to stop things like this being posted on the web, like to see you try for a start.
You really come out like w wet fish half the time, I take the view they will show videos of people actuallky saying doing wrong, stol being a wet sap. Do I believe in mob rule for paedo's dam straight I do as our justice service is an utter joke in handing out the right sentence.
Stop being a wat on the dark side, I am not the idiot wanting to shoot people just because they are townies you loon

nor do i actually.....i just want to build a mile high wall round the towns.......

then wait for rain....... Razz

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:24 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:

in which case you seem to think that its ok to the "take the law into your own hands"???....

if I had suggested that you would be sat there ripping strips of skin off and rubbing salt in......

The law does not go far enough in certain situiations, it is far too soft, so in some aspects yes I do believe in judgement to those that harm children.
If that is too much for your constitution, well that is your problem not mione.

funny that didge.....you see I beleive in the rule of law...absolutely...

if a law is wrong...then fight to get it changed....stand for parliament if needs be...christ almighty it isnt as if you lack the gift of the gob....(bet YOU have kissed the balrney stone Laughing

)

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:28 pm

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

The law does not go far enough in certain situiations, it is far too soft, so in some aspects yes I do believe in judgement to those that harm children.
If that is too much for your constitution, well that is your problem not mione.

funny that didge.....you see I beleive in the rule of law...absolutely...

if a law is wrong...then fight to get it changed....stand for parliament if needs be...christ almighty it isnt as if you lack the gift of the gob....(bet YOU have kissed the balrney stone )

The rule of the law is forever changing.
Laws have been broken when wrong and rightly so and people have died fighting to change bad laws.
It is subjective to say the least if you believe in keeping the rule of the law.
Would you do so if said law discrminated against you with no means to change it?
Hernce to claim you believe in the rule of the law is not a solid ground in every case is it?

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:35 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:

funny that didge.....you see I beleive in the rule of law...absolutely...

if a law is wrong...then fight to get it changed....stand for parliament if needs be...christ almighty it isnt as if you lack the gift of the gob....(bet YOU have kissed the balrney stone )

The rule of the law is forever changing.
Laws have been broken when wrong and rightly so and people have died fighting to change bad laws.
It is subjective to say the least if you believe in keeping the rule of the law.
Would you do so if said law discrminated against you with no means to change it?

you are talking about 2 different conditions here

if there is no means to change law other than conflict clearly there is something amiss...you are perhaps in a dictatorship in which case breaking laws is rather a moot point...
however we are NOT talking about that kind of extreme scenario

so what next obi didge.....

mob justice for parking on doubble yellow lines....

see heres the point ..if you can justify it for one crime...someone else can equaly validly justify it for another....

and that leads to anarchy.....ooooh....bring it on.......

Hernce to claim you believe in the rule of the law is not a solid ground in every case is it?

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:39 pm

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

The rule of the law is forever changing.
Laws have been broken when wrong and rightly so and people have died fighting to change bad laws.
It is subjective to say the least if you believe in keeping the rule of the law.
Would you do so if said law discrminated against you with no means to change it?

you are talking about 2 different conditions here

if there is no means to change law other than conflict clearly there is something amiss...you are perhaps in a dictatorship in which case breaking laws is rather a moot point...
however we are NOT talking about that kind of extreme scenario

so what next obi didge.....

mob justice for parking on doubble yellow lines....

see heres the point ..if you can justify it for one crime...someone else can equaly validly justify it for another....

and that leads to anarchy.....ooooh....bring it on.......

Hernce to claim you believe in the rule of the law is not a solid ground in every case is it?

Who said anything about conditions.
You either believe 100% always in the rule of the law or you do not.
In certain conditions you would not believe in the rule of the law if laws effected you.
Hence why I would never lay to claim to be absolutely a believer in the rule of the law.
No need to side track from my point Victor, you fell into a very simple trap.
There is no denying you would activelly fight if your right to your life came under threat and on that I have no doubt that you would.

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 pm

Brasidas wrote:
darknessss wrote:

Who said anything about conditions.
You either believe 100% always in the rule of the law or you do not.
In certain conditions you would not believe in the rule of the law if laws effected you.
Hence why I would never lay to claim to be absolutely a believer in the rule of the law.
No need to side track from my point Victor, you fell into a very simple trap.
There is no denying you would activelly fight if your right to your life came under threat and on that I have no doubt that you would.

yes didge...except you are being a pillock again....

there IS a world of diffence between fighting (as in efectively waging war on/against laws which threaten your existance..or even perhaps you right to a "reasonable existance"

and condoning mob justice

moreover you fail to see the point on "mission creep" if you allow that kind of mentality to have free reign

our laws are not, by any means, perfect, however they are better than the uncivilised uncontrolled mob law you seem to support....

strewth you are being little better than ISIS....

by Guest Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:49 pm

darknessss wrote:
Brasidas wrote:

Who said anything about conditions.
You either believe 100% always in the rule of the law or you do not.
In certain conditions you would not believe in the rule of the law if laws effected you.
Hence why I would never lay to claim to be absolutely a believer in the rule of the law.
No need to side track from my point Victor, you fell into a very simple trap.
There is no denying you would activelly fight if your right to your life came under threat and on that I have no doubt that you would.

yes didge...except you are being a pillock again....

there IS a world of diffence between fighting (as in efectively waging war on/against laws which threaten your existance..or even perhaps you right to a "reasonable existance"

and condoning mob justice

moreover you fail to see the point on "mission creep" if you allow that kind of mentality to have free reign

our laws are not, by any means, perfect, however they are better than the uncivilised uncontrolled mob law you seem to support....

strewth you are being little better than ISIS....

No I am showing the limitations of your poor argument and only at this present situation to you belive absolutely in the rule of law, which could change, hence your view absolutely was the nail in the coffin for you on this point.
Never should have used that word, as soon as you did, your view point fell apart and you know it did.
Never claimed are laws are not perfect but they are shockingly soft on sex offenders and abusers on sentencing.
Of course I would go through the legal means to change these, but if my life was under threat as if it was for you to, you would not be an absolute believer in the rule of law.
Hence it is a subjective view dependent on the laws a country has.

Never mind mate, it is alrighty to slip up, even I do .

Night.

Laughing

by Original Quill Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:31 am

risingsun wrote:You disgusting old windbag. Nicko and I might be polls apart politically, but you are in a class of your own for being an undisguised pompous blabbermouth. How dare you. What war have you fought in Quill? Cos I'll take a bet you were old enough to be called up for Vietnam and you didn't go did you? Daddy paid it off for you did he? Who the frigging hell do you think you are disrespecting what someone else did for their country? I have seen you lie, I have seen you be crass in the extreme, but now you have reached a new low even for you.

This thread was about people who disrespected and egged on someone to kill themselves. You have just shown you are the same kind of person.

Pond life.

This thread was not about you, but you couldn't resist making it that way could you?

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump FDKAuSdIi15RBC0rw1MANHTaTG85nd6tRB72qII46lSqvzu2oGdB2_gXPpfUz1wILZZMmJ7Jv4dxyTcc5CDUUQ4TbKxY7GCePp-1jwOmk5mqNp3nyrc

Ms. Sassi returning from court ordered anger management class.

by Original Quill Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:59 am

eddie wrote:Oh and Quill?
That was low, your remark to Nicko.

No it wasn't. He is a war monger. So is sassi...and now it appears you are, too.

When are you people going to realize that you are killing real, live human beings? Sassy is forever posting the pictures of bloody babies, but she would be cheering if they were Israeli babies. Another war-monger, a different colored stripe down her back.

You want to honor soldiers, get them the fook out of harm's way, you silly cow. Practical. Simple. No need for medals and jangles. These idiots hang a bunch of balmy, colored and striped ribbons on their chests, wear silly hats with cottage cheese on the beaks, and snap to a salute, and think they are anything more than the criminals who stalk the streets at night, selling drugs and killing people in drive-bys? I have absolutely no respect for them. What did we see in the last war: kidnapping, child-rape, torture, and murder...and you think that is worthy of some ribbon on some grunt's chest??

Those who glorify war, killing, rape and torture, have no business demanding respect. I see some polished military marching band in a parade, and I wonder how many little daughters did those pretty boys rape the other day. You? You don't even put two and two together. Those are rapists, kidnappers and torturers you wish to honor. Boolshit!

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump MyLai

And babies? Yes, babies too.

Here's your war. Here's your marching band...your honor and glory.

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump BOSTON-118

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump BOSTON-118

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump Iraq-women-mother-dead-chil

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_-Ysno995-gnuS_G24hnnuPbP3w0IpKLVebck2tdQTCjo-psZ

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump 1363793268_9c501c3b981f57d6659bcf066c8_h450_w598_m2_q90_cbqktcvfj_zpsea36f182

And this is all you see...and all you want to see.

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump Invisablewar-ArianainMarineDressBlues

Telford suicide: Thousands sign petition demanding police arrest sick mob who urged tragic man to jump Invisablewar-ArianainMarineDressBlues

by veya_victaous Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:33 am

sort of related

I'd wager most people dont know that this song is about. Some might realise its about the TV news being scary, but even fewer will realise its about the TV news being deliberately scary to sell you something and suck you in. Its interesting the writer realised in the 70's what most still dont realise in 2015.

Best lines

You think it's just a movie on a silver screen
And they're all actors and fake old scenes
Maybe you don't care who's gonna lose or win
Listen to this and I'll tell you somethin'

It's a horror movie, right there on my TV
Horror movie, right there on my TV
Horror movie, and it's blown a fuse
Horror movie, it's the six-thirty news

The public's waitin'
For the killin' and the hatin'
Switch on the station, oh yeah
They do a lotta sellin'
Between the firin' and the yellin'
And you believe in what they're tellin', oh yeah

It's a horror movie right there on my TV

by Guest Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:54 am

I'm afraid Quill has sucked you in Veya. Not one person was defending war, who would. It should be avoided at all costs. But sometimes, like WWII, and in our case Northern Ireland, when two sides were at each other's throats and innocents are being killed, before you have a peace process, troops have to defend them. And no, neither am I saying Northern Ireland was right, because many bad things were done,

But you see, Quill very carefully, to take you away from what he actually said, has made you think that we (and it was more than me) were defending war when we got angry with him.

Let's go back to what he actually said to Nicko:

More and more words, nick. Cleaning latrines, were you? Working the chow line? Your frame of mind is compensatory...something is bothering you. You weren't really there, were you?

The words in bold were the words objected to. The were deliberately disrespecting the fact that Nicko served in the Forces and trying to belittle him, something Quill always does when he is put on the spot.

We have known Nicko for some time, and although I disagree with him violently about politics, Quill has no right to belittle him for serving his country and cannot see the irony of doing it on a thread about people who were belittling someone else.

The fact that he then came out with all of the above just goes to show he knew how wrong he had been and was trying to deflect further.

by Guest Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:07 am

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Oh and Quill?
That was low, your remark to Nicko.

No it wasn't. He is a war monger. So is sassi...and now it appears you are, too.

When are you people going to realize that you are killing real, live human beings? Sassy is forever posting the pictures of bloody babies, but she would be cheering if they were Israeli babies. Another war-monger, a different colored stripe down her back.

You want to honor soldiers, get them the fook out of harm's way, you silly cow. Practical. Simple. No need for medals and jangles. These idiots hang a bunch of balmy, colored and striped ribbons on their chests, wear silly hats with cottage cheese on the beaks, and snap to a salute, and think they are anything more than the criminals who stalk the streets at night, selling drugs and killing people in drive-bys? I have absolutely no respect for them. What did we see in the last war: kidnapping, child-rape, torture, and murder...and you think that is worthy of some ribbon on some grunt's chest??

Those who glorify war, killing, rape and torture, have no business demanding respect. I see some polished military marching band in a parade, and I wonder how many little daughters did those pretty boys rape the other day. You? You don't even put two and two together. Those are rapists, kidnappers and torturers you wish to honor. Boolshit!

The point you seem to be missing is that if we did not go to war with agressors then this pictures would still be there without the war due to those who commit attrocities on people, or did this not excape your attention.
The fact is many who serve conflicts are rightly seen as brave and rewarded as brave with recognition of their actions, becuase they place their lives at daily risk in such actions. Your argument is idiotic beyond belief because you are making an argument which states there is never a justification for war.

You are wrong because there is, as the natural rational thing for a human to do is to defend itself against an aggressor. You will find no ethical argument to claim not to and to claim someone can run away is also moot based on the point you will soon run out of places to hide. If the natural rational thing to do is to stop an aggressor then this calls to take action by war. Nobody is claiming all wars are right but many who fight in them are brave, no matter the side they are on, the major point of which eludes you Quill.

The reality is you are basically saying we should do away with Remeberance sunday and that we should not honour those who have fallen, you sound as bad as some Muslim extremists that burn poppies. This is why you will find not many people are going to ever agree with you here because you think you have some higher moral argument. You do not, as the protection of sanctity of life will supercede any inaction against aggresssors.

What you said was poor and you know it, you crossed a line on taking the piss. I can understand we all get carried away but do the decent thing and swallow some pride and apologise to Nicko, as your words were unwarranted.
Be a man and man up.

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