Mother-fuck. It's happened again.

New York (CNN) -- Protesters poured onto the streets of New York late Wednesday, upset over a grand jury's decision not to indict a police officer in the death of Eric Garner.

They marched at the same time U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced that federal officials were moving ahead with a civil rights investigation.

Garner, an unarmed black man, died in July after a white officer, Daniel Pantaleo, put him in a chokehold. Garner's death was later ruled a homicide.

"This fight ain't over. It just begun. I'm determined to get justice for my husband because he shouldn't have been killed in that way. He shouldn't have been killed in any way," said Esaw Garner, his widow.

"He should be here, celebrating Christmas and Thanksgiving and everything else, with his children and his grandchildren. And he can't. Why? Because a cop did wrong. Somebody that gets paid to do right did wrong and he's not held accountable for it. But my husband's death will not be in vain. As long as I have a breath in my body I will fight the fight till the end."

Protesters gathered at various points in Manhattan, including Times Square and Union Square, marching peacefully north as crowds formed near Rockefeller Center for the lighting of the Christmas tree. Columbus Circle was blocked for a time.

There were demonstrations in other cities too, including Washington, D.C., Philadelphia and Oakland, California.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I don't understand that. If his death was ruled a homocide, how can the police officer not be responsible for his death?

Having said that, are there not any examples of non-black people being harmed or killed by police officers?

Right so....if it was a homicide, and the police officer isn't being punished for it....who else are they looking for then???

What a shambles. I bet this man never gets justice.

eddie wrote:Right so....if it was a homicide, and the police officer isn't being punished for it....who else are they looking for then???

What a shambles. I bet this man never gets justice.

Ah, it was ruled a homocide, which just means that the man was killed by another person. It doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was illegal. It's all a bit strange really.

It has happened here as well - Jimmy Mubenga

Jimmy Mubenga: Heathrow deportee 'unlawfully killed'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23244203

No charges brought after a police investigation.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't understand that. If his death was ruled a homocide, how can the police officer not be responsible for his death?

Having said that, are there not any examples of non-black people being harmed or killed by police officers?

Oh, sure there are, just not nearly as many. Most of the non-black police killings involve Latinos, not whites.

USA Today analyzed the FBI’s “justifiable homicide” statistics over several years and found that, of roughly 400 reported police killings annually, an average of 96 involved a white police officer killing a black person.

Two years ago, D. Brian Burghart, the editor and publisher of the Reno (Nev.) News & Review, launched FatalEncounters.org, an ambitious attempt to compile a comprehensive crowd-sourced database of fatal police shootings. Reports of the October 2012 killing of a naked, unarmed college student by University of South Alabama police made Burghart wonder how many such shootings there were; the fact that no one knew the answer made him determined to find it.

Burghart recently summed up what he has learned so far: “You know who dies in the most population-dense areas? Black men,” he wrote on Gawker. “You know who dies in the least population-dense areas? Mentally ill men. It’s not to say there aren’t dangerous and desperate criminals killed across the line. But African-Americans and the mentally ill people make up a huge percentage of people killed by police.”

Burghart and others who have attempted to count and analyze police shootings shouldn’t have to do the FBI’s job. All law enforcement agencies should be required to report all uses of deadly force to the bureau, using a standardized format that allows comparisons and analysis. Police departments that have nothing to hide should be eager to cooperate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-its-a-crime-that-we-dont-know-how-many-people-police-shoot-to-death/2014/12/01/adedcb00-7998-11e4-b821-503cc7efed9e_story.html

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't understand that. If his death was ruled a homocide, how can the police officer not be responsible for his death?

It's just how pervasive racism is in American.  The medical examiner says it was clearly a homicide, the Grand Jury says there is no possibility that the policeman in whose custody he was at the time could have committed a homicide.  And...we have it all on video.  Where is there any room for doubt that he did it?

Once again, the Richmond County (Staten Island) DA presented the defense case, permitting the jury to improperly review, not the question of is there any evidence to bring charges, but is the accused guilty.  I don't see how jurors can find there is not sufficient evidence given the video, but that is not the point.  The standard of evidence for the guilt of the accused is 'beyond a reasonable doubt' while the evidence presented matched the lessor bar, and the defense case was put on.  That perversion allowed a guilty man (likely) to go free.

Raggamuffin wrote:Having said that, are there not any examples of non-black people being harmed or killed by police officers?

Not very many.  Police hardly ever pull the trigger on someone of their own race.  In fact, this disproportion is one of the things that rather proves it is all about racism.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:
Right so....if it was a homicide, and the police officer isn't being punished for it....who else are they looking for then???

What a shambles. I bet this man never gets justice.

Ah, it was ruled a homocide, which just means that the man was killed by another person. It doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was illegal. It's all a bit strange really.

LAST TIME I looked, I'm pretty sure that cops killing innocent and unarmed civilians going about their rightful business IS "illegal"...

A "rightful killing" is when "lethal force" of some kind is used to stop somebody from killing somebody else. i.e. self defense..

DESPITE what some idiots have been posting online recently (especially on those Facebook and TWITter replies to newspaper reports..), none of these killings were in any way or form "rightful" or justified.

THE fact that the cops involved feel no responsibility, remorse or guilt only goes to further demonstrate their psychopathic or sociopathic natures..

AND NO, eddie ~ read the story again, and they know that the cop involved is the guilty party  ~  there is NO second party involved...  

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Right so....if it was a homicide, and the police officer isn't being punished for it....who else are they looking for then???

What a shambles. I bet this man never gets justice.

Ah, it was ruled a homocide, which just means that the man was killed by another person. It doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was illegal. It's all a bit strange really.

Who on earth could it have been? The cop has got his cold, bloody arm around the poor man's neck, in a carotid choke hold, and you think it might have been someone else???

I want to hear more about your "other person" theory.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Right so....if it was a homicide, and the police officer isn't being punished for it....who else are they looking for then???

What a shambles. I bet this man never gets justice.

Ah, it was ruled a homocide, which just means that the man was killed by another person. It doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was illegal. It's all a bit strange really.

Who on earth could it have been?  The cop has got his cold, bloody arm around the poor man's neck, in a carotid choke hold, and you think it might have been someone else???

I want to hear more about your "other person" theory.  

I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm
and Raggs is right Homicide is not always murder or manslaughter... but in this case i think it is

I don't get why they don't go to trial surely after Ferguson they would have wanted to make an effort for justice to be seen

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/the-only-person-indicted-over-eric-garners-death-was-the-guy-who-filmed-it/ar-BBgkTtM?ocid=mailsignout

The only person indicted over Eric Garner's death was the guy who filmed it

Remarkably, the video of unarmed black man Eric Garner being choked to death by Daniel Pantaleo didn't lead to the indictment of the police officer, yet the man who filmed it is now in prison.

The world was stunned today as a Staten Island grand jury decided Pantaleo did not act improperly when he placed Garner, whom he believed to be selling untaxed cigarettes, in a chokehold which caused him to plead "I can't breathe" before dying shortly after.
The man who filmed it, Ramsey Orta, was arrested in August a month after the tragedy for allegedly concealing a handgun in a teenage accomplace's waistband outside a New York hotel.

He testified that police brought the charges in retaliation to his dissemination of the Eric Garner video, but the grand jury ignored him, indicting him on multiple firearm charges.

Garner was the latest in a series of killings of unarmed black men by white police officers in the US this year that have not seen prosecutions, following on from Michael Brown whose death caused riots in Ferguson, Missouri.

It is incredibly rare for a grand jury not to return an indictment (according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, of the 162,000 federal cases US attorneys prosecuted in 2010 grand juries only declined to return an indictment in 11 of them), but the data tells a very different story when it is police officers in the dock.

Of course it was retaliation.  Criminals, whether cops or otherwise, do not learn.  If they got into trouble for one heavy-handed action, they will do the same thing again.  Crooks are dumb.

Bad guys are like dictators.  They only know one way...force/intimidation.

And these Police unions are nothing but rackets themselves.  Today the guy was making a speech that Eric Garner wasn't choked because he could still say, You're chocking me!!

Dude, Mr. Garner died of asphyxiation due to a choke hold.  How do you supposed that happened?  What...we were looking the other way when someone else did it?

People who are in choke-holds usually make some kind of groan or exclamation before they run out of air, what a crock!

veya_victaous wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/the-only-person-indicted-over-eric-garners-death-was-the-guy-who-filmed-it/ar-BBgkTtM?ocid=mailsignout

The only person indicted over Eric Garner's death was the guy who filmed it

Remarkably, the video of unarmed black man Eric Garner being choked to death by Daniel Pantaleo didn't lead to the indictment of the police officer, yet the man who filmed it is now in prison.

The world was stunned today as a Staten Island grand jury decided Pantaleo did not act improperly when he placed Garner, whom he believed to be selling untaxed cigarettes, in a chokehold which caused him to plead "I can't breathe" before dying shortly after.
The man who filmed it, Ramsey Orta, was arrested in August a month after the tragedy for allegedly concealing a handgun in a teenage accomplace's waistband outside a New York hotel.

He testified that police brought the charges in retaliation to his dissemination of the Eric Garner video, but the grand jury ignored him, indicting him on multiple firearm charges.

Garner was the latest in a series of killings of unarmed black men by white police officers in the US this year that have not seen prosecutions, following on from Michael Brown whose death caused riots in Ferguson, Missouri.

It is incredibly rare for a grand jury not to return an indictment (according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, of the 162,000 federal cases US attorneys prosecuted in 2010 grand juries only declined to return an indictment in 11 of them), but the data tells a very different story when it is police officers in the dock.

Oh Good Lord! How can the actual man who choked him have gotten away with it but the man who filmed it be in prison????
What kind of sense is that? That's insane!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ah, it was ruled a homocide, which just means that the man was killed by another person. It doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was illegal. It's all a bit strange really.

Who on earth could it have been?  The cop has got his cold, bloody arm around the poor man's neck, in a carotid choke hold, and you think it might have been someone else???

I want to hear more about your "other person" theory.  

I think you meant to quote eddie there, didn't you?

My reference to "another person" was just my way of defining homicide - I didn't imply that anyone else was involved.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Who on earth could it have been?  The cop has got his cold, bloody arm around the poor man's neck, in a carotid choke hold, and you think it might have been someone else???

I want to hear more about your "other person" theory.  

I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm
and Raggs is right Homicide is not always murder or manslaughter... but in this case i think it is

I don't get why they don't go to trial  surely after Ferguson they would have wanted to make an effort for justice to be seen

In the UK, the word "homicide" is not generally used, so I was a bit confused as to the definition of it. I would take it to mean something like murder or at least manslaughter, which is why I was confused as to how the death of this man could be ruled a homicide and yet the police officer was not indicted.

However, I then googled "homicide" and found out that it doesn't necessarily mean an illegal killing, it just means that one person killed another person, and that's not necessarily illegal.

I'm still confused as to how this death was not illegal, but at least I understand the word "homicide" now.

Playing Devils Advocate here.
If you don't want to be in a situation where you will be confronted by police then don't do anything that's against the law. Its that simple.

I'm sorry Michael Brown and Eric Garner died but they significantly upped their chances of encountering law enforcement by committing a crime. Did they deserve to die? No. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. Do I think both cases should have gone to a jury trial? Yes. Do we still have racism in the US? Yes along with sexism, ageism and a whole lot of other types of discremination

But I for one am sick and tired of watching the media hyper over and over again.

And I'm sick of people blaming the police. They're human beings and not super hero's so they can and will make mistakes and yes there's always a few bad ones among the vast majority who are good but id rather have them than not. its time to put away the tar and feathers. The system ain't perfect and yes it needs reform but again I would rather have it than other types currently on offer around the world.

and before anyone bites my head off - my best friends who are black say the same thing with regards to these 2 cases.

Cass wrote:Playing Devils Advocate here.
If you don't want to be in a situation where you will be confronted by police then don't do anything that's against the law. Its that simple.

I'm sorry Michael Brown and Eric Garner died but they significantly upped their chances of encountering law enforcement by committing a crime. Did they deserve to die? No. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. Do I think both cases should have gone to a jury trial? Yes. Do we still have racism in the US? Yes along with sexism, ageism and a whole lot of other types of discremination

But I for one am sick and tired of watching the media hyper over and over again.

And I'm sick of people blaming the police. They're human beings and not super hero's so they can and will make mistakes and yes there's always a few bad ones among the vast majority who are good but id rather have them than not. its time to put away the tar and feathers. The system ain't perfect and yes it needs reform but again I would rather have it than other types currently on offer around the world.

and before anyone bites my head off - my best friends who are black say the same thing with regards to these 2 cases.

I'm afraid not, Cass.  Your argument amounts to a special license to kill for police in the US.  You know what?  I don't want those people living in the US.  There are plenty of places where they can go and act like that.  Send them there.

Neither Mr. Brown nor Mr. Garner had been convicted of any crime.  It is contrary to US law, not to mention international human rights, to assume a person is a criminal on your own.  There is a presumption of innocence that is absolute.  That was not respected in either of these cases, and surprisingly, it is not respected by you.

But the issue is more immediate than mere crime.  The issue is immediate necessity for use of deadly force.  If you could shoot a firearm or choke to death a shoplifter, almost every person at some time or other would be killed.  In both of these cases unnecessary deadly force was used, in neither case justified.  There is an issue of proportion to be considered...taking a life for allegedly selling single cigarettes on Staten Island when the suspect would at best be given a ticket?  That's way outside of reason.

Then there is the problem that none of these sort of encounters ever occur with a white suspect.  The police seem to have a unique selective perception when determining who is and who is not a criminal--put aside the notion of no necessity for deadly force.  Blacks represent 14.2% of the US population, but they make up 40% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison.  The proportion increases when we speak of non-convictions.

Now this doesn't even begin to broach the subject of the bias and downright lies told by the prosecutors at these grand jury proceedings.  The transcript for the proceedings in the Staten Island (Pantaleo) case has not been released yet, but we know that a false law was read to the grand jury in the Wilson case.  That was no mistake...a first year law student would be flunked out of school for that.  For a licensed attorney to do that should be grounds for disbarment.  This is racketeering and hooliganism.

Your moral argument about this is misplaced.  These are intentional, conscious misdeeds and perversions of the law, by those who are in positions of power...and shouldn't be.  I understand politics are slippery and greasy.  But law should not be.  These guys are playing politics with law.  How would you like it if the surgeon performing open heart surgery on a child of yours, were playing it that way?  Meh...sure he died cause I didn't recognize the aorta from the inferior vena cava, but he was probably selling open ciggies in Staten Island and he deserved it.

Cass wrote:........................

But I for one am sick and tired of watching the media hyper over and over again.

And I'm sick of people blaming the police. They're human beings and not super hero's so they can and will make mistakes and yes there's always a few bad ones among the vast majority who are good but id rather have them than not. its time to put away the tar and feathers. The system ain't perfect and yes it needs reform but again I would rather have it than other types currently on offer around the world.

......................

Best in the world, are they Cass ?

THAT'S why the American Police have one of the highest "kill rates" of innocent people going, especially when compared with other comparative police services in the western world !

A pretty strange way to rate a police force as being supposedly efficient, successful or desirable, isn't it..

wolf - where exactly did I say best in the world hmmm?

quill I never said they deserved to die but because of their choices they put themselves at higher risk of getting entangled with law enforcement agencies which sadly have led to their deaths.

I will save my own personal outrage for those children who get cancer, for those innocents killed by drunk drivers, etc....just exactly where are the mass protests and media coverage about these topics?

http://www.denverpost.com/caldwell/ci_25004990/is-thug-new-word-choice-bigots

When Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman last week said he didn't appreciate being called a "thug" — calling it the equivalent of the N-word — he opened yet another national dialogue on race.

Is the word "thug" a synonym for that ugly racial label? Can it be? And in what context?

The short answer is: You bet. The longer answer has everything to do with the situation and who's doing the talking.

"Some words can be used as a stand-in or a proxy for the N-word, and 'thug' is one of them," Keith Mayes, a University of Minnesota professor of African-American studies told me.

A "thug" is often a young, black, poor, inner-city male and the label comes with at least a whiff of criminality, Mayes said.

Cass wrote:wolf - where exactly did I say best in the world hmmm?

quill I never said they deserved to die but because of their choices they put themselves at higher risk of getting entangled with law enforcement agencies which sadly have led to their deaths.

I will save my own personal outrage for those children who get cancer, for those innocents killed by drunk drivers, etc....just exactly where are the mass protests and media coverage about these topics?

Cass, they didn't tangle with the law.  The law tangled with them.  The statistics don't come from the black community; the statistics come from the police and the white community that still covers up for the crimes of white men.  

Whites were not brought to this country to work on black farms; blacks were brought as involuntary slaves to sweat, starve and die young on white farms.  Blacks in this country never had a fair deal, and they sure don't now.  The audacity of whites to now argue anything but their own culpability, and their own disgrace, is simply too much.  White America is the very definition of evil.

As far as outrage is concerned, is yours that limited?  Mine isn't.  You don't trade off 'wrongs'.  It's like...which one of your children do you want to sell out?  Right now it is overwhelming...we are a slaver country, racist to the the core, we conduct wars by way of rape, kidnapping, torture and murder, we let the white men who commit high treason and espionage go completely free, but we sanction murder of black men who are only suspected of selling cigarettes as singles in Staten Island.  So now, you were just telling me...which one of the evils do you want to accept...what part of America do you want to give up on?

I don't accept any of them.  If you sell out...give up...you just fall behind.  You lose.  A friend of mine wrote a book--I won't bother about the title, but he was a rather high-level NASA scientist.  In it he wrote about a thesis of how the US will never achieve what it calls its destiny.  Before it was published, we sat about kicking around titles for the theme.  The one we came up with was The Portugal Hypothesis.  Portugal once had it, but they lost it.  They fell behind the likes of Spain, Holland, France and Britain.  They had no substance...it was just the gold they found lying around.  When that ran out, they were an empty box.

If you don't care, and if you make up a lot of excuses, and have no introspection, that's what you become.

Cass has a point why are they focusing on these 2

Tamir Rice is a much better example a 12 year old kid
You can see in the video they just jump out and shoot him for holding a toy gun not even enough time for him to react and he is dying on the ground, they could have saved his life but You know 'cops don't have to do that'


I think the USA has to really do something about it's police SERIOUSLY they are terrorists the amount of black men they kill is ridiculous it can not be put down to accident or Victim blaming. If Chinese Police killed Minorities Like the US police do we would be screaming about Human rights abuses.

We invest millions trying to cure cancer, we pass laws and set punishments for Drivers that 'are only human' and take risks like drink driving on the roads (they can get punished without actually hurting anyone). yet the laws are lacking in this section which allows for Police to essentially murder someone. And if they cant hold themselves to a higher standard than the rest of the community they have NO BUSINESS being police in the first place.

Lurker wrote:http://www.denverpost.com/caldwell/ci_25004990/is-thug-new-word-choice-bigots

When Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman last week said he didn't appreciate being called a "thug" — calling it the equivalent of the N-word — he opened yet another national dialogue on race.

Is the word "thug" a synonym for that ugly racial label? Can it be? And in what context?

The short answer is: You bet. The longer answer has everything to do with the situation and who's doing the talking.

"Some words can be used as a stand-in or a proxy for the N-word, and 'thug' is one of them," Keith Mayes, a University of Minnesota professor of African-American studies told me.

A "thug" is often a young, black, poor, inner-city male and the label comes with at least a whiff of criminality, Mayes said.

I remember a few years back when a guy I used to hang out with talked about a black NFL player that had gotten into some kind of trouble; he said, "OK, I'm a horrible racist, right? But I think this guy is just a thug."

At the time I didn't know why he'd call himself racist for using the word that way, but I've come to see that this is the word racists use now when they're too chicken-shit just to drop the n-bomb.

Code, eh?

veya wrote:...yet the laws are lacking in this section which allows for Police to essentially murder someone.

Actually the laws in this area are adequate and quite well thought-out.  The problem is the people who carry out the law.  I'm not talking now about the cops--although that would fit equally--but the ordinary citizens who serve on grand juries, who are either too racist or too afraid to vote against the police.

I have to say...I believe it's a cultural thing.  I don't like most Americans for their racism.

Why does it even go to a grand jury with out evidence?
system is lacking in the appropriate controls to ensure that justice is served.


the other part is Still the gun Culture of the USA.. allowing everyone to have gun is inevitably going to make life harder for police which combined with employing bullies and cowards (by design) means you have men jumping out cars and blowing away 12 years olds holding toys.

veya_victaous wrote:Why does it even go to a grand jury with out evidence?
system is lacking in the appropriate controls to ensure that justice is served.

I don't quite understand your assumption.  Why do you say there was no evidence.  I think the problem in NYC was that there was overwhelming evidence, yet the jury declined to indict.

There was the additional problem that the Richmond County DA perverted the system and failed to advocate--he put the defense case before the GJ.  But there was plenty of evidence notwithstanding.

What is disappointing is that this shows that Americans do not really believe in the freedoms and democratic principles designed for them by the founders.  It's still the same old belief in who you are...not the facts.  Blacks get murdered...whites and cops get off.  The system didn't fail; the people failed.

veya_victaous wrote:the other part is Still the gun Culture of the USA.. allowing everyone to have gun is inevitably going to make life harder for police which combined with employing bullies and cowards (by design) means you have men jumping out cars and blowing away 12 years olds holding toys.

Well, one thing at a time.  There's quite a list wrong with America, but one at a time.  There is American racism.  Then there is American violence.  Sure they intersect at points--take the KKK--but they each regress into a different set of causes.  There are other problems, too.  America professes to embrace equality, only just not for Blacks and Hispanics.  American economics is based upon a set of principles over 400-years old.  Americans treat economic theory like religion...socialism is the anti-Christ.  Americans have hostility for their own written Constitution.  And, there is a distinct anti-intellectualism in American, which makes it difficult for Americans to recognize reason.  Americans love their wars...it gives them a simplistic sense of 'right and wrong'...like the old genre of the western movie.  You've got to separate them and treat each one as a theme of its own, in order to understand.

There is a lot to pick apart...just one at a time. One at a time is the only way you can attack it.

Well I'm talking more about Ferguson.. why is there Limited Evidence presented? Like the Police testimony but not autopsy. it is probably just the police prosecutor sucking at his job. But why does the system put someone in the position to make that call? why isn't the prosecutor getting fired? System failed...

I think the guns one is a big one, we have problems here too but making it as hard as possible to kill anther person is a good start to fostering discussion and debate as opposed to fear and aggression. Plus it takes away the police reasons for the 'Shoot first and don't worry about questions' mentality shown by US police.

Step one to fighting racism is to stop people killing each other, It cannot be possible until then, no one can discuss and debate with logic and reason when they have a legitimate fear that the other side may kill them with out consequence.


your description is quite accurate I think, it is often said that Americans don't deserve their constitution because of the amount of idiot 'patriots' that fight against it....

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/06/3600158/nypd-social-media-eric-garner-protests/

But the NYPD has a history of using surveillance tools to track individuals involved in legal protests. The Occupy Wall Street protests of 2012 faced intense surveillance, both by cameras and as the NYPD monitored organizers’ social media accounts. Twitter was forced to give up the account of an Occupy protester who was charged with disorderly conduct. The department also reluctantly disbanded its unit dedicated to mapping Muslim community members’ activities using surveillance cameras and combing online forums.

“We’ve seen the tactics of police using surveillance to monitor communities for years. Social media is just another form of communication and it’s more public than telephone,” Rashad Robinson, executive director of activist group Color of Change, told ThinkProgress.

NYPD officers traveled to Ferguson, MO during the fallout of the grand jury decision for Michael Brown, the unarmed teen who was fatally shot by a police officer in August, to collect intelligence on “professional agitators” ahead of the Garner decision. Missouri protesters managed to outmaneuver police during protests by using disposable or burner phones and organizing via social media. One NYPD officer complained that the protesters were wealthy “little techie brats” who were using social media to outsmart cops.

“The NYPD encourages cooperation across units to spy on people for attempting to protest,” and any one who may be associated with protesters, Malkia Cyril, executive director of the Center for Media Justice, told ThinkProgress, mentioning the NYPD helicopters surveying thousands of protesters this week.

Legal protesters are now on Watch lists.
The Police are using the terrorist laws against protesters!!!!

there is no question POLICE are 100% in the wrong NO excuses can justify their actions. NYPD need to be declared a terrorist organisation they actually have LESS legal right to do what they are doing than the Taliban and are every bit as bad.

Protesters took to the streets Thursday night after Arizona police continued to defend an unidentified officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man. Rumain Brisbon was delivering fast food to his children when he was shot in the torso two times after the officer confused a pill bottle for a gun.

A police spokesman, Sergeant Trent Crump, said the unidentified cop approached Brisbon, who was in an SUV, after residents in a Phoenix neighborhood reported a drug deal happening by the vehicle. The license plate on the SUV matched the plate belonging to a house that was reported for a loud music complaint. Brisbon got out of the vehicle and went to the back of the car, when the officer told him to show his hands. The suspect put his hands in his pockets instead, and began to run away when the officer drew his weapon. After the officer pursued Brisbon, the two struggled inside of a nearby apartment. Brisbon put his hand in his left pocket, and the officer believed he felt a gun in his grip.

The police officer shot the suspect twice. The only object in Brisbon’s pocket was a bottle of oxycodine pills. An unspecified weapon and marijuana were later found in the SUV.

“Let’s be very clear: The officer was doing what we expect him to do, which is investigate crimes that neighbors are telling him are occurring in that part of the complex,” said Crump. He also claims witnesses told law enforcement that Brisbon “was verbally challenging to the officer.”

Eyewitnesses told a different story. Brandon Dickerson was also in the SUV on Tuesday, and disputes Crump’s claim that there was a verbal altercation between Brisbon and the officer. “Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish [Tuesday].”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/05/3600031/white-cop-shoots-unarmed-black-man-holding-pill-bottle/

Shit this guy was NOT even doing anything wrong. Getting Food for his kids.

And how Fucking stupid do police think people are?
they say he randomly without provocation was verbally abusive to Police (which all the eye witnesses deny)
Like the eye witness said
“Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish"

veya_victaous wrote:Well I'm talking more about Ferguson.. why is there Limited Evidence presented? Like the Police testimony but not autopsy. it is probably just the police prosecutor sucking at his job. But why does the system put someone in the position to make that call? why isn't the prosecutor getting fired?  System failed...

I believe he's a Republican. I think the DA position is elected. Republicans are racially motivated, particularly now that Obama is President.

veya_victaous wrote:I think the guns one is a big one, we have problems here too but making it as hard as possible to kill anther person is a good start to fostering discussion and debate as opposed to fear and aggression.  Plus it takes away the police reasons for the 'Shoot first and don't worry about questions' mentality shown by US police.

Maybe it's my humanist perspective, but I worry more about what is in their heads. Guns are a practical problem, no doubt. But these guys are evil.

veya_victaous wrote:Step one to fighting racism is to stop people killing each other, It cannot be possible until then, no one can discuss and debate with logic and reason when they have a legitimate fear that the other side may kill them with out consequence.

your description is quite accurate I think, it is often said that Americans don't deserve their constitution because of the amount of idiot 'patriots' that fight against it....

I think the way is to elevate blacks above whites. With better education, better employment, and better status in the community, we can leave the white Republicans in the ghettos. Most of 'em belong there.

veya_victaous wrote:http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/06/3600158/nypd-social-media-eric-garner-protests/

But the NYPD has a history of using surveillance tools to track individuals involved in legal protests. The Occupy Wall Street protests of 2012 faced intense surveillance, both by cameras and as the NYPD monitored organizers’ social media accounts. Twitter was forced to give up the account of an Occupy protester who was charged with disorderly conduct. The department also reluctantly disbanded its unit dedicated to mapping Muslim community members’ activities using surveillance cameras and combing online forums.

“We’ve seen the tactics of police using surveillance to monitor communities for years. Social media is just another form of communication and it’s more public than telephone,” Rashad Robinson, executive director of activist group Color of Change, told ThinkProgress.

NYPD officers traveled to Ferguson, MO during the fallout of the grand jury decision for Michael Brown, the unarmed teen who was fatally shot by a police officer in August, to collect intelligence on “professional agitators” ahead of the Garner decision. Missouri protesters managed to outmaneuver police during protests by using disposable or burner phones and organizing via social media. One NYPD officer complained that the protesters were wealthy “little techie brats” who were using social media to outsmart cops.

“The NYPD encourages cooperation across units to spy on people for attempting to protest,” and any one who may be associated with protesters, Malkia Cyril, executive director of the Center for Media Justice, told ThinkProgress, mentioning the NYPD helicopters surveying thousands of protesters this week.

Legal protesters are now on Watch lists.
The Police are using the terrorist laws against protesters!!!!

there is no question POLICE are 100% in the wrong NO excuses can justify their actions. NYPD need to be declared a terrorist organisation they actually have LESS legal right to do what they are doing than the Taliban and are every bit as bad.

Yep, it's really getting serious. Did you see what happened in Berkeley last night. One of these days...

veya_victaous wrote:

Protesters took to the streets Thursday night after Arizona police continued to defend an unidentified officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man. Rumain Brisbon was delivering fast food to his children when he was shot in the torso two times after the officer confused a pill bottle for a gun.

A police spokesman, Sergeant Trent Crump, said the unidentified cop approached Brisbon, who was in an SUV, after residents in a Phoenix neighborhood reported a drug deal happening by the vehicle. The license plate on the SUV matched the plate belonging to a house that was reported for a loud music complaint. Brisbon got out of the vehicle and went to the back of the car, when the officer told him to show his hands. The suspect put his hands in his pockets instead, and began to run away when the officer drew his weapon. After the officer pursued Brisbon, the two struggled inside of a nearby apartment. Brisbon put his hand in his left pocket, and the officer believed he felt a gun in his grip.

The police officer shot the suspect twice. The only object in Brisbon’s pocket was a bottle of oxycodine pills. An unspecified weapon and marijuana were later found in the SUV.

“Let’s be very clear: The officer was doing what we expect him to do, which is investigate crimes that neighbors are telling him are occurring in that part of the complex,” said Crump. He also claims witnesses told law enforcement that Brisbon “was verbally challenging to the officer.”

Eyewitnesses told a different story. Brandon Dickerson was also in the SUV on Tuesday, and disputes Crump’s claim that there was a verbal altercation between Brisbon and the officer. “Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish [Tuesday].”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/05/3600031/white-cop-shoots-unarmed-black-man-holding-pill-bottle/

Shit this guy was NOT even doing anything wrong. Getting Food for his kids.

And how Fucking stupid do police think people are?
they say he randomly without provocation was verbally abusive to Police (which all the eye witnesses deny)
Like the eye witness said
“Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish"

Police are the biggest liars in the criminal justice system.  They are taught 'effective' testimony techniques at the academy, the purpose of which is to stretch and mislead.  Lying is only the next step and these guys are not the swiftest intellects.

The rift growing between police and the people can be seen in these demonstrations.

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Well I'm talking more about Ferguson.. why is there Limited Evidence presented? Like the Police testimony but not autopsy. it is probably just the police prosecutor sucking at his job. But why does the system put someone in the position to make that call? why isn't the prosecutor getting fired?  System failed...

I believe he's a Republican.  I think the DA position is elected.  Republicans are racially motivated, particularly now that Obama is President.

See all that is way to open to corruption.

veya_victaous wrote:I think the guns one is a big one, we have problems here too but making it as hard as possible to kill anther person is a good start to fostering discussion and debate as opposed to fear and aggression.  Plus it takes away the police reasons for the 'Shoot first and don't worry about questions' mentality shown by US police.

Maybe it's my humanist perspective, but I worry more about what is in their heads.  Guns are a practical problem, no doubt.  But these guys are evil.

I think of them more like Irresponsible Children, no way are the responsible enough to have a gun.
If you take away their ability to kill one another instantly at range, it at least means someone can Open their mouth and begin a conversation. Like the Video Above with the 12 year old, the Cop didn't even yell out Just shot him cause he couldn't take the "risk" that a 12 year old in a park had a toy. Jumped out the car door and Fired straight away.

veya_victaous wrote:Step one to fighting racism is to stop people killing each other, It cannot be possible until then, no one can discuss and debate with logic and reason when they have a legitimate fear that the other side may kill them with out consequence.

your description is quite accurate I think, it is often said that Americans don't deserve their constitution because of the amount of idiot 'patriots' that fight against it....

I think the way is to elevate blacks above whites.  With better education, better employment, and better status in the community, we can leave the white Republicans in  the ghettos.  Most of 'em belong there.

2 wrongs don't make a right. let the republicans get to the ghettos through reward for their hard work and 'skills' I think it is just trying and give everyone a fair go, and Definitely don't shot people so quickly, a cop that fires without significant warning (like Tamir) needs to be charged with man slaughter at the minimum, the value of life needs to be changed and Police need to be Required to try all other options before drawing a weapon (they Do here) and Stop employing Bullies and Cowards as police officers. You hear every single one of them, they Don't even feel like they have killed another person They just doing their Job to Keep the animals in line!!!!! How can a cop Say that and Still be employed How is that not Instant dismissal. How is that not referral to Mental Health.
Cops Blaming a 12 year old he looked like he had a gun he should have know in the 2 seconds he had available to throw the toy he was holding away?!??! the Cops with that attitude or even TRYING to justify killing a child like that NEED to be no where near public office.

It is pathetic. US police to me and most of the world look like Murderous Thugs
Ironic that racists use it instead of n---er, the Pictures clearly show who looks like thugs, The Good guy is NEVER the man pointing a automatic weapon at an unarmed civilian.... EVEN US SOLDIERS Know that!!!!

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Protesters took to the streets Thursday night after Arizona police continued to defend an unidentified officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man. Rumain Brisbon was delivering fast food to his children when he was shot in the torso two times after the officer confused a pill bottle for a gun.

A police spokesman, Sergeant Trent Crump, said the unidentified cop approached Brisbon, who was in an SUV, after residents in a Phoenix neighborhood reported a drug deal happening by the vehicle. The license plate on the SUV matched the plate belonging to a house that was reported for a loud music complaint. Brisbon got out of the vehicle and went to the back of the car, when the officer told him to show his hands. The suspect put his hands in his pockets instead, and began to run away when the officer drew his weapon. After the officer pursued Brisbon, the two struggled inside of a nearby apartment. Brisbon put his hand in his left pocket, and the officer believed he felt a gun in his grip.

The police officer shot the suspect twice. The only object in Brisbon’s pocket was a bottle of oxycodine pills. An unspecified weapon and marijuana were later found in the SUV.

“Let’s be very clear: The officer was doing what we expect him to do, which is investigate crimes that neighbors are telling him are occurring in that part of the complex,” said Crump. He also claims witnesses told law enforcement that Brisbon “was verbally challenging to the officer.”

Eyewitnesses told a different story. Brandon Dickerson was also in the SUV on Tuesday, and disputes Crump’s claim that there was a verbal altercation between Brisbon and the officer. “Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish [Tuesday].”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/05/3600031/white-cop-shoots-unarmed-black-man-holding-pill-bottle/

Shit this guy was NOT even doing anything wrong. Getting Food for his kids.

And how Fucking stupid do police think people are?
they say he randomly without provocation was verbally abusive to Police (which all the eye witnesses deny)
Like the eye witness said
“Who’s gonna argue with police?” he said. “He had no death wish"

Police are the biggest liars in the criminal justice system.  They are taught 'effective' testimony techniques at the academy, the purpose of which is to stretch and mislead.  Lying is only the next step and these guys are not the swiftest intellects.

The rift growing between police and the people can be seen in these demonstrations.

lets hope so...

such as these lyrics to the tune of "Little Drummer Boy:"

"Help, he told them,

pa rum pum pum pum,

I cannot breathe, you see,

pa rum pum pum pum,

Our city's finest bring,

pa rum pum pum pum,

Death to this human being."

veya wrote:2 wrongs don't make a right. Wink let the republicans get to the ghettos through reward for their hard work and 'skills' Razz I think it is just trying and give everyone a fair go, and Definitely don't shot people so quickly, a cop that fires without significant warning (like Tamir) needs to be charged with man slaughter at the minimum, the value of life needs to be changed and Police need to be Required to try all other options before drawing a weapon (they Do here) and Stop employing Bullies and Cowards as police officers. You hear every single one of them, they Don't even feel like they have killed another person They just doing their Job to Keep the animals in line!!!!! How can a cop Say that and Still be employed How is that not Instant dismissal. How is that not referral to Mental Health.

It's not a wrong.  It's just leaving them behind.  Remember the goal is to elevate the status of African Americans.  If one person grows and the other doesn't, whose fault is that?

Listen, ignorant people are ignorant because: 1) they are really, really stupid; or 2) because they haven't figured it out yet.  Now, if they are stupid, leaving them behind is nature's way...survival of the fittest and all of that.  If they haven't managed to reason their way to the truth, leaving them behind is perhaps the best way to motivate them.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Lurker wrote:http://www.denverpost.com/caldwell/ci_25004990/is-thug-new-word-choice-bigots

I remember a few years back when a guy I used to hang out with talked about a black NFL player that had gotten into some kind of trouble; he said, "OK, I'm a horrible racist, right? But I think this guy is just a thug."

At the time I didn't know why he'd call himself racist for using the word that way, but I've come to see that this is the word racists use now when they're too chicken-shit just to drop the n-bomb.

Maybe he just meant that he thought the guy was a thug.

Cass wrote:Playing Devils Advocate here.
If you don't want to be in a situation where you will be confronted by police then don't do anything that's against the law. Its that simple.

I'm sorry Michael Brown and Eric Garner died but they significantly upped their chances of encountering law enforcement by committing a crime. Did they deserve to die? No. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. Do I think both cases should have gone to a jury trial? Yes. Do we still have racism in the US? Yes along with sexism, ageism and a whole lot of other types of discremination

But I for one am sick and tired of watching the media hyper over and over again.

And I'm sick of people blaming the police. They're human beings and not super hero's so they can and will make mistakes and yes there's always a few bad ones among the vast majority who are good but id rather have them than not. its time to put away the tar and feathers. The system ain't perfect and yes it needs reform but again I would rather have it than other types currently on offer around the world.

and before anyone bites my head off - my best friends who are black say the same thing with regards to these 2 cases.

I agree with you. I'll go further and say that in the US even if someone isn't doing anything the law and gets stopped by the police, they should just do what they're told and not argue with the police. It's all very well arguing about your rights and getting all arsy, but it's not much use if you end up being shot. They should save all that for the police station.

I don't think so, Raggs -- I later found out that he spends all his time on the "Chimpout" website. He probably has an account there ...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Cass wrote:Playing Devils Advocate here.
If you don't want to be in a situation where you will be confronted by police then don't do anything that's against the law. Its that simple.

I'm sorry Michael Brown and Eric Garner died but they significantly upped their chances of encountering law enforcement by committing a crime. Did they deserve to die? No. Do I think it was racially motivated? No. Do I think both cases should have gone to a jury trial? Yes. Do we still have racism in the US? Yes along with sexism, ageism and a whole lot of other types of discremination

But I for one am sick and tired of watching the media hyper over and over again.

And I'm sick of people blaming the police. They're human beings and not super hero's so they can and will make mistakes and yes there's always a few bad ones among the vast majority who are good but id rather have them than not. its time to put away the tar and feathers. The system ain't perfect and yes it needs reform but again I would rather have it than other types currently on offer around the world.

and before anyone bites my head off - my best friends who are black say the same thing with regards to these 2 cases.

I agree with you. I'll go further and say that in the US even if someone isn't doing anything the law and gets stopped by the police, they should just do what they're told and not argue with the police. It's all very well arguing about your rights and getting all arsy, but it's not much use if you end up being shot. They should save all that for the police station.

That doesn't always work -- the 12-year-old was shot before they even spoke to him.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I don't think so, Raggs -- I later found out that he spends all his time on the "Chimpout" website. He probably has an account there ...

Oh right - I've heard of that place.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I agree with you. I'll go further and say that in the US even if someone isn't doing anything the law and gets stopped by the police, they should just do what they're told and not argue with the police. It's all very well arguing about your rights and getting all arsy, but it's not much use if you end up being shot. They should save all that for the police station.

That doesn't always work -- the 12-year-old was shot before they even spoke to him.

Is that the one who was carrying a replica gun? That was a stupid thing to do.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I agree with you. I'll go further and say that in the US even if someone isn't doing anything the law and gets stopped by the police, they should just do what they're told and not argue with the police. It's all very well arguing about your rights and getting all arsy, but it's not much use if you end up being shot. They should save all that for the police station.

That doesn't always work -- the 12-year-old was shot before they even spoke to him.

Is that the one who was carrying a replica gun? That was a stupid thing to do.

Yeah, children often do stupid things. I think executing them like rabid animals in the street is maybe going too far, though.

Original Quill wrote:

veya wrote:2 wrongs don't make a right. Wink let the republicans get to the ghettos through reward for their hard work and 'skills' Razz I think it is just trying and give everyone a fair go, and Definitely don't shot people so quickly, a cop that fires without significant warning (like Tamir) needs to be charged with man slaughter at the minimum, the value of life needs to be changed and Police need to be Required to try all other options before drawing a weapon (they Do here) and Stop employing Bullies and Cowards as police officers. You hear every single one of them, they Don't even feel like they have killed another person They just doing their Job to Keep the animals in line!!!!! How can a cop Say that and Still be employed How is that not Instant dismissal. How is that not referral to Mental Health.

It's not a wrong.  It's just leaving them behind.  Remember the goal is to elevate the status of African Americans.  If one person grows and the other doesn't, whose fault is that?

Listen, ignorant people are ignorant because: 1) they are really, really stupid; or 2) because they haven't figured it out yet.  Now, if they are stupid, leaving them behind is nature's way...survival of the fittest and all of that.  If they haven't managed to reason their way to the truth, leaving them behind is perhaps the best way to motivate them.

Pretty sure we said the same thing
That's why I said let their work and skill get their rewards. Currently I Believe most of them have what they have because of the advantages they were given. There is no need to take anything from them just give the African American the same. And let the best win
But really The more I have read into the More I think there is deep issues with racism in the USA and with Police Brutality/Militarisation. that are not going to be fixed easily. You probably need another civil war or something

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I agree with you. I'll go further and say that in the US even if someone isn't doing anything the law and gets stopped by the police, they should just do what they're told and not argue with the police. It's all very well arguing about your rights and getting all arsy, but it's not much use if you end up being shot. They should save all that for the police station.

That doesn't always work -- the 12-year-old was shot before they even spoke to him.

Is that the one who was carrying a replica gun? That was a stupid thing to do.

An Airsoft gun, sold as a Child's toy NOT as a replica
US made and available Walmart

http://www.walmart.com/browse/sports-outdoors/airsoft-guns/4125_546956_1107532_1224804_1080386



Which is more stupid the Kid playing with his toy in the park or the Legislation that allowed Some company to make and sell it?
Is the gun nut Culture of the USA acceptable for White kids to emulate but a reason to shot a black kid on sight?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Is that the one who was carrying a replica gun? That was a stupid thing to do.

Yeah, children often do stupid things. I think executing them like rabid animals in the street is maybe going too far, though.

Well he pointed the gun at people so what were they supposed to think? 12-year old boys are old enough to commit crimes.

Perhaps there should be an educational programme in the US to teach people what to do if they're approached by a police officer. That education should include children.

The gun laws are stupid there IMO, and if people are allowed to carry them, of course the police are going to be a bit trigger happy because they don't know who has a gun and who doesn't. I don't even know why anyone knocks at someone's door over there - you might get shot just for doing that.