We Passed the Law Thanks to the ‘Stupidity of the American Voter’

One of the architects of Obamacare said the law was written in a deliberately “tortured” way and relied on the “stupidity of the American voter” to ensure its passage.

In a newly unearthed 2013 clip, Jonathan Gruber, the MIT health economist who helped craft parts of the Affordable Care Act, got fairly candid about the tactics used to get the Affordable Care Act passed during a panel at the Annual Health Economists’ Conference last year.

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes,” Gruber said in one 52-second clip. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”

Gruber then trumpeted the value of a “lack of transparency” — and called American voters stupid.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber said. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass.”

Better for the American people to be saddled with a law they don’t understand, Gruber claimed, than for them to understand the law and rally against it.

“Look, I wish … we could make it all transparent,” Gruber said, “but I’d rather have this law than not.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/09/obamacare-architect-lack-of-transparency-was-key-because-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-would-have-killed-obamacare/


The video of Gruber's comments was removed from YouTube by the University of Pennsylvania. It was again reposted by Daily Caller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

I remember when Republicans were all for Obamacare, before Obama was president, when it was their idea ...

Another bit of irony: Some Republicans had supported a plan with a mandate in the early 1990s as an alternative to a health care plan proposed by then President Bill Clinton. Liberal commentators pointed out that Sen. Orrin Hatch co-sponsored a 1993 health care bill that had an individual mandate. PolitiFact rated that True.

One Republican supporter who changed his position was former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich. During the Republican primary, candidate Michele Bachmann charged that Gingrich "first advocated for the individual mandate in health care. And as recently as May of this year, he was still advocating" for it. We rated that Mostly True; Gingrich had expressed flexibility on the details of health care.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/28/fact-checking-claims-about-individual-mandate/

Interesting choice of words that -- "irony." I might have gone with "hypocrisy," or perhaps "putting politics before good ideas."

It's OK though -- Republicans already support Obamacare again.

According to a new poll taken by the Commonwealth Fund, people enrolled in ObamaCare are satisfied. And yes, that includes Republicans:

Overall, 73 percent of people who bought health plans and 87 percent of those who signed up for Medicaid said they were somewhat or very satisfied with their new health insurance. Seventy-four percent of newly insured Republicans liked their plans. Even 77 percent of people who had insurance before — including members of the much-publicized group whose plans got canceled last year — were happy with their new coverage. [Commonwealth Fund]

http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/264499/speedreads-74-percent-of-republicans-are-happy-with-their-new-obamacare-plans

IndependentThoughts wrote:One of the architects of Obamacare said the law was written in a deliberately “tortured” way and relied on the “stupidity of the American voter” to ensure its passage.

In a newly unearthed 2013 clip, Jonathan Gruber, the MIT health economist who helped craft parts of the Affordable Care Act, got fairly candid about the tactics used to get the Affordable Care Act passed during a panel at the Annual Health Economists’ Conference last year.

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes,” Gruber said in one 52-second clip. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”

Gruber then trumpeted the value of a “lack of transparency” — and called American voters stupid.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” Gruber said. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass.”

Better for the American people to be saddled with a law they don’t understand, Gruber claimed, than for them to understand the law and rally against it.

“Look, I wish … we could make it all transparent,” Gruber said, “but I’d rather have this law than not.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/09/obamacare-architect-lack-of-transparency-was-key-because-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-would-have-killed-obamacare/


The video of Gruber's comments was removed from YouTube by the University of Pennsylvania.  It was again reposted by Daily Caller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

What improvements would you make IT?

Or do you hate your fellow man so much that you would deprives him of even his own health?  That's what so much of this Republican shit says.  The only thing conservatives are more passionate about is killing in wars. God they love their wars, don't they?

What is it?  Is it that the more who die, the more there is for conservatives?  What will they do when nobody is left and it's not fun anymore?  They take a social life for granted, but they despise socialism.

Perhaps we should just separate them off to some expanse in Brazil, and leave them to themselves.

well the US system needed to be fixed there is no denying that Obamacare is better than there was.

veya_victaous wrote:well the US system needed to be fixed there is no denying that Obamacare is better than there was.

true....it still needs some fixing but better that we have it than not. what is more needed is reform of the insurance companies, medical instruments manufactures and the pharmaceutical giants.

that's the thing i dont get about the 'repeal obamacare'.... then what?
go back to the system that was literally a Joke to the rest of the western world because of the unbelievable combination of massive cost and shitty service?(plus the whole you cant pay you die thing) cause that is just stupid, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. No Valid argument can be made for going backwards because the old system was proven with out a doubt to be the Worst most costly and ineffective system Any western nation implemented.

veya_victaous wrote:that's the thing i dont get about the 'repeal obamacare'.... then what?
go back to the system that was literally a Joke to the rest of the western world because of the unbelievable combination of massive cost and shitty service?(plus the whole you cant pay you die thing) cause that is just stupid, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. No Valid argument can be made for going backwards because the old system was proven with out a doubt to be the Worst most costly and ineffective system Any western nation implemented.

This whole debate in the U.S. has been obscured by politics. Republicans were the ones who proposed Obamacare's "engine," the individual mandate ("you must obtain health insurance") long ago (like as early as the '80s), Democrats didn't like it and wanted either some like Canada's Medicare, or the Clinton idea of the employer mandate (your employer has to provide health insurance).

Conservatives admitted just like liberals that the old system was horrible, until Obama conceded on the individual mandate for the sake of doing anything to improve what we had. Then, of course, conservatives ran from it, because they're trying to destroy Obama, not work with him.

Most Americans, when told what Obamacare actually is without using the word "Obamacare" (which I guess is a word now), actually support most of the policy:

But the disconnect also reflects the public’s poor understanding of what the law actually does — even now, five years after its passage. While polls show that “Obamacare” and the “Affordable Care Act” are not popular with the public, Kaiser’s tracking poll has consistently shown that when the law’s individual provisions are explained, all but one — the individual mandate — enjoy broad popular support.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/18/americans-like-obamacare-just-dont-call-it-obamacare/

Obama and the Democrats conceded so many things -- Obamacare was originally going to have the so-called "public option" -- a government-created, non-profit type of health insurance people would still have to buy rather than getting for free. There were originally not going to be state-level health insurance shopping exchanges; those were thrown in as a concession to Republicans (ostensibly so voters wouldn't necessarily even associate them with Obama, but with their state). Still didn't get a single Republican vote.

“And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass.”

Better for the American people to be saddled with a law they don’t understand, Gruber claimed, than for them to understand the law and rally against it.

2 points
the open desire to not help you fellow humans is not stupidity is is selfishness and evil nature

if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.”

If that is true Americans are disgusting people, no way any decent human could think like that only Scum would say 'But I'm healthy so Fuck the sick'

and the second part (in relation to affordable health care) is 100% true
some people are stupid and it is better to have things they don't understand, then go with out because cowards fear what they don't understand.

sometimes you have to do what is right and if that means ignoring or tricking cowardly scum so be it.

Not to mention -- "explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money" is exactly how every type of health insurance works, whether it's private or government-run or government-owned. For that matter, it's how all insurance -- auto, home, whatever -- works. It's impossible to run insurance differently.

@ben
exactly, so it not like he is saying that 'American voter is stupid because they got tricked' he is saying they are stupid more as an accurate statement of fact.
Like you said, no understanding the Basis of All insurance and would Vote to kill people over having a system like insurance... unfortunately it does seem Quill is not joking when he says the real issue is Racism in America. it's true as pointed out this Very Capitalist style health care System (more RW then anything Australia has ever suggested) was fine until it was put forward by a black man.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:that's the thing i dont get about the 'repeal obamacare'.... then what?
go back to the system that was literally a Joke to the rest of the western world because of the unbelievable combination of massive cost and shitty service?(plus the whole you cant pay you die thing) cause that is just stupid, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. No Valid argument can be made for going backwards because the old system was proven with out a doubt to be the Worst most costly and ineffective system Any western nation implemented.

This whole debate in the U.S. has been obscured by politics. Republicans were the ones who proposed Obamacare's "engine," the individual mandate ("you must obtain health insurance") long ago (like as early as the '80s), Democrats didn't like it and wanted either some like Canada's Medicare, or the Clinton idea of the employer mandate (your employer has to provide health insurance).

Conservatives admitted just like liberals that the old system was horrible, until Obama conceded on the individual mandate for the sake of doing anything to improve what we had. Then, of course, conservatives ran from it, because they're trying to destroy Obama, not work with him.

Most Americans, when told what Obamacare actually is without using the word "Obamacare" (which I guess is a word now), actually support most of the policy:

But the disconnect also reflects the public’s poor understanding of what the law actually does — even now, five years after its passage. While polls show that “Obamacare” and the “Affordable Care Act” are not popular with the public, Kaiser’s tracking poll has consistently shown that when the law’s individual provisions are explained, all but one — the individual mandate — enjoy broad popular support.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/18/americans-like-obamacare-just-dont-call-it-obamacare/

Obama and the Democrats conceded so many things -- Obamacare was originally going to have the so-called "public option" -- a government-created, non-profit type of health insurance people would still have to buy rather than getting for free. There were originally not going to be state-level health insurance shopping exchanges; those were thrown in as a concession to Republicans (ostensibly so voters wouldn't necessarily even associate them with Obama, but with their state). Still didn't get a single Republican vote.

What is called "Obamacare" was a market-based plan that was originally designed by the conservative Heritage Foundation.  For over 70-years Democrats have tried to pass a healthcare bill that adequately addressed America's needs.  Hillary Clinton undertook the task when her husband was first elected president.  She almost succeeded.

Apparently this frightened the right-wingers that they decided to invent a system that answered the question often put to conservatives: Well, what do you suggest?  The Heritage Foundation perceived the issue as market-based vs. socialism (ie, socialized medicine), and designed a system that was decidedly not socialized medicine.

The irony is...that eventually became Obamacare, the bane of all conservatives everywhere.  It was first pushed in Massachusetts when Mitt Romney was Governor.  It was then dubbed Romneycare, becaused he had pushed it.  The original version of the Affordable Care Act that was proposed to Congress was a hybrid of both the socialized plan and the market-based plan.  When you hear of a "single-payer" option, that is the government paying.  So they had a combination of both private and public funding.

Harry Reid, Democratic Senate Majority leader, told the President that the single-payer option wouldn't fly, even in the Democratic-controlled Senate.  So, they cut it back to simply the market-based plan, but with constraints on how the insurance companies could price it and the conditions they could put on plans (ie, eg, no pre-existing illness exclusion).  So what we have is a restricted, free-market healthcare plan.  (It is ironic that Republicans still use socialized medicine arguments against it...they say it will bankrupt the government, but the government doesn't fund it; it's a market-based product, dummies.)

So that explains why liberals say that Obamacare is "unfinished business".  The restrictions on insurance companies inures to the benefit of external elements of society such as seniors, but seniors are not covered.  Still uncovered also, are the poor, poor, poor who cannot afford even the greatly reduced rates.  We need the old single-payer involvement--that is, the government funded plan--to plug in for the very poor.  So you hear about the liberal, liberals talking about something called "Universal Health Care."  That is a platform off the market, that the government picks up.

But, there is no way that conservatives will ever pull the Affordable Care Act.  The 55 bills that have been introduced in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to repeal it are just theater.  If the Republicans ever actually succeeded in repealing it, the American public would cut off their testicles, shove them down their throats, turn the oven up to 450° and cook them for 4-hours.  Republican with Roast Nuts Dressing.

As always, progress is made on the left, bullshit on the right.  Eventually, we will have to pass universal healthcare.  But right now we need the Republicans to step in their own shit again, just as they did in 2011 when they shut down the government.  Unfortunately, the voters have a short memory, so some more recent antics are needed.  Luckily, the Republicans just retook the House and took the Senate, so there is plenty of room for them to make a mess.  Let's hope they do a good job of that right before the 2016 general election.