In America, fear is growing that the police are getting out of control

Barely a week goes past without a terrible incident, and too often the police officer is white and the other people involved are black.

It should have been a routine traffic stop.

A motorist, who was not wearing her seatbelt, was pulled over. In less than 15 minutes the encounter ended with a police officer smashing an axe through the car window and using a Taser on the front seat passenger.

The incident would have gone unnoticed but for the fact that one of the woman’s two children in the back filmed the incident on his mobile phone.

This was just one of a series of confrontations between black Americans and white officers in recent months in which the police seem all too ready to respond with disproportionate force.

Unease about the police is not restricted to the liberal left.

Rand Paul, the libertarian Republican senator for Kentucky and a possible presidential candidate, warned about what he described as the militarisation of the police in Time.

He warned that towns were competing for surplus military equipment from the Federal government to build up their own small armies.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/america-fear-growing-police-are-getting-out-control

Has it really got that bad in certain areas of the USA? I haven't had much to do with with the police in the US but when I've spoken to them they've always been helpful and respectful to me.

So, what's going on?

It really has; they're still isolated incidents and most of the police are decent people, but incidents like this are either growing more and more common or are being documented more often than in the past -- and I'm sure there are right-wing media followers among the police force, with said media feeding increasing paranoia about racial violence, etc. to its viewers. Fox News and the like have totally forgotten that with the power they wield comes responsibility (Spider-Man would not approve).

Just recently a police officer stopped an illegal immigrant in Arizona and was recorded saying, "If you try anything I'll kill you." I mean -- I'd prefer just to think he's seen too many bad movies, but it's really terrifying; I can't imagine what it was like to be told that.

I think it's important to remember how different people can be drawn to the same occupation; while I think most police feel the need to serve and protect, others are drawn for many other reasons, including a psychological need some have to be "the man" and impose their will on others. Just like most ministers and teachers have good motives, but a few will be pedophiles who want access to children and authority over them.

It really is only a few That doesn't mean we ignore those few ...

I disagree, Ben.  It's more systemic than that.  The issue Irn raises is a phenomenon, not "only a few."

America is a racist nation.  That shouldn't startle anyone; half of the nation began with slavery as a means of production.  Yet Americans are so awash in denial that we can no longer admit the most fundamental of truths...nor can we even talk about it.  Immediately as the subject was raised, what did you do Ben?  You went right to the denial script.

So let's get beyond that and have a frank discussion: America is a racist nation.  It has mass psychological presumptions of racial superiority, and resentments over what are seen as deviations to those presumptions.  It is a raw, open sore in the south; but it even exists in other regions of the country.  This is the American population.

The American population makes up the American electorate.  Voters determine the nature of laws, and the personality of institutions such as police forces.  Voters impose their will on the quality of police forces, but also on what laws the police are supposed to enforce.  A racist population is going to not only choose a racist police force, but more importantly, commit that police force to a battery of racist laws or social programs.

A police force is a point of contact and communication between the civic entity and the people.  That is to say, the average guy is more likely to run into a cop than a public fiduciary or a construction archaeologist.  As a point of contact, any friction is naturally going to occur there.

So it begins to be clear why there are these 'incidents' between cops and populations--particularly populations in which there is disaffection in either the surrounding community, or within the policed community.  It's not a direct confrontation over race, but usually over 'keeping the peace' or 'trespass' or, as in the motorist incidents, enforcing the laws of the vehicle code.  These are the points of contact where personal conflicts can arise, and race is always in the background.

To be fair, it's not always bad relations between police and the community.  With the exception of Oakland and Los Angeles, the police of California are a cut above the norm.  But imagine the cops in, say, Sanford Florida or Ferguson Missouri.  These are cities with mild to severe racial tensions...and what do we see but typically explosive racial incidents.

It's not so difficult a thing to understand.  In the words of Walt Kelly,...

Ben_Reilly wrote:It really has; they're still isolated incidents and most of the police are decent people, but incidents like this are either growing more and more common or are being documented more often than in the past -- and I'm sure there are right-wing media followers among the police force, with said media feeding increasing paranoia about racial violence, etc. to its viewers. Fox News and the like have totally forgotten that with the power they wield comes responsibility (Spider-Man would not approve).

Just recently a police officer stopped an illegal immigrant in Arizona and was recorded saying, "If you try anything I'll kill you." I mean -- I'd prefer just to think he's seen too many bad movies, but it's really terrifying; I can't imagine what it was like to be told that.

I think it's important to remember how different people can be drawn to the same occupation; while I think most police feel the need to serve and protect, others are drawn for many other reasons, including a psychological need some have to be "the man" and impose their will on others. Just like most ministers and teachers have good motives, but a few will be pedophiles who want access to children and authority over them.

It really is only a few That doesn't mean we ignore those few ...

the best argument against that line of reasoning is came from an ex police officer that I used to work with..

he said Guys like him joined to protect and serve but anyone like that is weeded out over after a few years through bullying and disillusionment. because the force doesn't want that, it wants bullies and thus promotes bullies and is systematic issues with bullying from the top down. even he suggested it was on purpose since they spend a lot more time revenue raising with spurious fins then actually crime fighting, a bully will be unreasonable with the public (their victims) and exercise their power to the full (maximum fines and no leniency, abuse of power here is normally just burying someone in bullshit fines)

his exact line he said was something like
'good men can become police officers but it is very hard for good men to stay police officers'
and that's here, where they just rob us not shoot us

I think alot of police forces are paranoid about black people. Let's face it, there is an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing.

If you live in a predominately middle class area this will not be as apparent to you, but if, like me, you live among the working classes (even though Essex is very chavvy lol) then you'd know that at the forefront of nearly every gang and drug-dealing group....
There is a black youth.

Before you shout me down, let me explain something:

I grew up in london in a multicultural area. Most of my boyfriends and friends were black or mixed race.
Most of the troublemakers were mostly black.

I still live in a multicultural area - mostly white and white Eastern European.
The trouble makers in my area are mainly black.

I have very close friends that are black. They are if the opinion that most of the troublemakers in our area, (and theirs - the ones who still live in London), are mostly black.

I have said this countless times: stereotypes are there for a reason.
This is why (wrongly, it seems some of the time) that American and English police are jumping the gun and using the gun, too many times when they see a black person.

eddie wrote:
I think a lot of police forces are paranoid about black people. Let's face it, there is an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing.

.........................................

    I wouldn't particularly us the term "paranoia" with police forces, in general ~ even if that does fit those cops that you know personally, and maybe even socialise with...

I could suggest several other and much better choices, though = bullying, arrogant, lazy, elitist, incompetent, opportunist, inept, anti-social..

AS FOR your commonly false ideas of "..an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing,"  ~ That is more usually and often largely down to your own conditioning (especially through both mass media scaremongering and local gossip..) and learned local bigotries shining through, and I'll bet they're not supported that well by actual crime stat's, are they !

WHILE I can also point out certain neighbourhoods or certain classes of crimes over around here, that may be largely dominated by Aboriginal-Pacific Islanders (in certain kinds of robbery with violence, for example) or by Arabic or Asian crim's (especially in drug dealing and distribution..), the overwhelming number of crimes down here are still committed by Anglo-Gaelic groups. JUST LIKE back over there in Britain !    

veya_victaous wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:
It really has; they're still isolated incidents and most of the police are decent people, but incidents like this are either growing more and more common or are being documented more often than in the past -- and I'm sure there are right-wing media followers among the police force, with said media feeding increasing paranoia about racial violence, etc. to its viewers. Fox News and the like have totally forgotten that with the power they wield comes responsibility (Spider-Man would not approve).

Just recently a police officer stopped an illegal immigrant in Arizona and was recorded saying, "If you try anything I'll kill you." I mean -- I'd prefer just to think he's seen too many bad movies, but it's really terrifying; I can't imagine what it was like to be told that.

I think it's important to remember how different people can be drawn to the same occupation; while I think most police feel the need to serve and protect, others are drawn for many other reasons, including a psychological need some have to be "the man" and impose their will on others. Just like most ministers and teachers have good motives, but a few will be pedophiles who want access to children and authority over them.

It really is only a few That doesn't mean we ignore those few ...

the best argument against that line of reasoning is came from an ex police officer that I used to work with..

he said Guys like him joined to protect and serve but anyone like that is weeded out over after a few years through bullying and disillusionment. because the force doesn't want that, it wants bullies and thus promotes bullies and is systematic issues with bullying from the top down. even he suggested it was on purpose since they spend a lot more time revenue raising with spurious fins then actually crime fighting, a bully will be unreasonable with the public (their victims) and exercise their power to the full (maximum fines and no leniency, abuse of power here is normally just burying someone in bullshit fines)

his exact line he said was something like
'good men can become police officers but it is very hard for good men to stay police officers'
and that's here, where they just rob us not shoot us

I FULLY agree, veya !!!

I'VE met some real 's and     's among the cops I've encountered over the years, even though there have also been the odd occasional good cops among them..

I'VE had corrupt cops book me or other drivers that I know over the years, through their own laziness and the fact that they don't want to chase down the real offenders ~ and there's no good and effective way to fight them if you don't have a couple of solid witnesses ~ so you just pay the false neg' driving or speeding charge.

THERE IS this one short and fat mad butch leso' policewoman around here, who always seem to be permanently in the grips of PMS and pent-up frustrations, wot drives a plain black and fully tintd unmarked Commodore, whose own sister even has no good words for her..    

Lone Wolf wrote:

eddie wrote:
I think a lot of police forces are paranoid about black people. Let's face it, there is an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing.

.........................................

    I wouldn't particularly us the term "paranoia" with police forces, in general ~ even if that does fit those cops that you know personally, and maybe even socialise with...

I could suggest several other and much better choices, though = bullying, arrogant, lazy, elitist, incompetent, opportunist, inept, anti-social..

AS FOR your commonly false ideas of "..an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing,"  ~ That is more usually and often largely down to your own conditioning (especially through both mass media scaremongering and local gossip..) and learned local bigotries shining through, and I'll bet they're not supported that well by actual crime stat's, are they !

WHILE I can also point out certain neighbourhoods or certain classes of crimes over around here, that may be largely dominated by Aboriginal-Pacific Islanders (in certain kinds of robbery with violence, for example) or by Arabic or Asian crim's (especially in drug dealing and distribution..), the overwhelming number of crimes down here are still committed by Anglo-Gaelic groups. JUST LIKE back over there in Britain !    

+1 Well said.

eddie wrote:I think alot of police forces are paranoid about black people. Let's face it, there is an undercurrent of bad behaviour that is associated with black youths ie stealing and drug dealing.

If you live in a predominately middle class area this will not be as apparent to you, but if, like me, you live among the working classes (even though Essex is very chavvy lol) then you'd know that at the forefront of nearly every gang and drug-dealing group....
There is a black youth.

Before you shout me down, let me explain something:

I grew up in london in a multicultural area. Most of my boyfriends and friends were black or mixed race.
Most of the troublemakers were mostly black.

I still live in a multicultural area - mostly white and white Eastern European.
The trouble makers in my area are mainly black.

I have very close friends that are black. They are if the opinion that most of the troublemakers in our area, (and theirs - the ones who still live in London), are mostly black.

I have said this countless times: stereotypes are there for a reason.
This is why (wrongly, it seems some of the time) that American and English police are jumping the gun and using the gun, too many times when they see a black person.

Your experience growing up on London is unfortunate.  But before you superimpose your English impressions on America, let me deny that blacks in America are any different than whites.  They are not more prone to crime than whites, nor are they any more impolite.

The difficulty arises out of the expectations of the majority white community, particularly a white community that is the progeny of former slave owners.  They exist today as segregationists and racists, and in general they fear blacks...not physically, but for what they represent.  The myth that black neighborhoods are more crime-prone comes from the white need for an excuse for their own upbringing...a kind of reduction of cognitive dissonance.

The only difference in the manner of black people is in anticipation and/or out of response to white people.  Whites, having grown up with their guilty consciences, or whatever, have these expectations that blacks are of a certain type.  Whites have expectations of black violence and criminal activity that cause them to react differently to blacks.  They walk across the street to avoid them.  The white women will not get into an elevator with a black male.  Department store detectives automatically expect black customers to be shoplifters.  In all of everyday existence, whites have built up this entire head trip about blacks that causes them to expect ill-consequences.  

Because white people are the majority, and most cops are white, black people must be prepared to step out of the way, not of the reality, but of what they know from experience the white people are divining in their expectations about blacks.  I'm reminded of the film, Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, where the black university professor automatically assumes the frisk position whenever he finds himself in the presence of the police.  Typical scene in America...unfortunately quite real.

In the US blacks are ordinary, and in every way, everyday people.  The whole script that there is crime in the black community exists, and only exists in the minds of white people.  I won't try to psychoanalyze why white people have this will-o'-the-wisp fantasy about blacks, but I'm sure it has something to do with a guilty conscience.

You may possibly be right Quill, I couldn't suppose to know anything about the blacks and whites in America, I only go from experience of England and from having twenty plus years of seeing and conversing with other people - many of them black people!

Oddly enough, the black people I know who think that blacks give black people a bad name call those black people 'niggers' or 'Pickney'

I would never ever say that there aren't bad in every colour and culture - I actually think that the trailer trash you see on our version of Jerry Springer (Jeremy Kyle) are mostly white, mostly unemployed and mostly stupid; you rarely, if ever, see black people "lowering" themselves to go on there!

Yeah, we white folk here in the U.S. have a lot of fun with the trailer trash, rednecks, etc. ... Aussies have their bogans, and I would predict that the closest thing in the UK to that is your average UKIP/BNP member (gonna take some heat for that one, though ...)

I still think most police officers are capable of having an interaction with someone of a different race (i.e. not white) without having an epic racist meltdown, though ... and it really is only getting better. Black people used to "be able to find" all sorts of weird ways of killing themselves in jail in the U.S. (like grabbing an officer's gun and shooting themselves three or four times in the head) -- not so much any more.

Media is kind of the opposite of the canary in the coalmine -- when we're talking about it it's finally obvious enough to relate to even the dumbest in our audience.

Not-for-profit media, folks -- it's our only hope, as I still can't convince enough people not to take the corporate media seriously, and voices like mine are few and far between -- but if you're interested:

http://www.freepress.net

If not, go ahead and keep drawing your worldview from corporations who profit from grabbing your attention (it is our business, after all, we kinda know how it works).