Why has bigandy gone?

by eddie Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wtf? Shocked

Another good debater!

by Guest Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:36 pm

eddie wrote:Who's to say who's views are right and who's are wrong?

Say in ten years there is civil war in England and all Muslims rise up and try to steal the country?
Just say it happens...?

Andy and co. would've been right....wouldn't they?

yup, and then we would be screwed, because our authorities would be too scared of ""offending" them to resist.....

by Guest Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:25 pm

eddie wrote:Who's to say who's views are right and who's are wrong?

Say in ten years there is civil war in England and all Muslims rise up and try to steal the country?
Just say it happens...?

Andy and co. would've been right....wouldn't they?

We are ...edds you, me ,every tom dick and harry
In fact society is based on the collective/majority view of what is right and what is wrong
We make those judgements every day
Rape wrong
Murder wrong
pedaos wrong
stealing wrong

The only difference is the perceived scale of the offense by the majority and the minority

by Irn Bru Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:31 pm

I quite liked Big Andy even though I disagreed with most of what he came out with. He was certainly never rude to me and I was never rude to him either. But he left due to his news titles being altered because they were misleading about the real story.

That's it as far as I can remember.

by Ben Reilly Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:37 pm

eddie wrote:Who's to say who's views are right and who's are wrong?

Say in ten years there is civil war in England and all Muslims rise up and try to steal the country?
Just say it happens...?

Andy and co. would've been right....wouldn't they?

Or ... maybe the hate and hostility people like him will be part of the reason for this theoretical rebellion.

Sorry, I think BA is a nasty person. He obviously thinks white straight men are better than everyone else. I think being racist and sexist are bad, and that being egalitarian is good. I don't miss his hatred and negativity toward all these people he's deluded himself into believing are ruining his country.

by eddie Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:43 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
eddie wrote:Who's to say who's views are right and who's are wrong?

Say in ten years there is civil war in England and all Muslims rise up and try to steal the country?
Just say it happens...?

Andy and co. would've been right....wouldn't they?
We are ...edds you, me ,every tom dick and harry
In fact society is based on the collective/majority view of what is right and what is wrong
We make those judgements every day
Rape wrong
Murder wrong
pedaos wrong
stealing wrong

The only difference is the perceived scale of the offense by the majority and the minority

Yes Korben, I know that, but I'm just saying.....
Opinion is opinion; no right or wrong sometimes. Just a majority vote.

by eddie Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:44 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Who's to say who's views are right and who's are wrong?

Say in ten years there is civil war in England and all Muslims rise up and try to steal the country?
Just say it happens...?

Andy and co. would've been right....wouldn't they?

Or ... maybe the hate and hostility people like him will be part of the reason for this theoretical rebellion.

Sorry, I think BA is a nasty person. He obviously thinks white straight men are better than everyone else. I think being racist and sexist are bad, and that being egalitarian is good. I don't miss his hatred and negativity toward all these people he's deluded himself into believing are ruining his country.

Maybe? Who knows?

But you know what? I dont think he'd walk past a gay Muslim man who was on fire.
I really don't.

by Guest Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:47 am

eddie wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
We are ...edds you, me ,every tom dick and harry
In fact society is based on the collective/majority view of what is right and what is wrong
We make those judgements every day
Rape wrong
Murder wrong
pedaos wrong
stealing wrong

The only difference is the perceived scale of the offense by the majority and the minority

Yes Korben, I know that, but I'm just saying.....
Opinion is opinion; no right or wrong sometimes. Just a majority vote.

yes i agree everybody entitled to their own opinion just not their own facts

by Guest Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:35 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
eddie wrote:

Yes Korben, I know that, but I'm just saying.....
Opinion is opinion; no right or wrong sometimes. Just a majority vote.
yes i agree everybody entitled to their own opinion just not their own facts

Well that is a contradiction, so they can have an opinion but they are not allowed to present the facts.

Speakfree MkII

by Guest Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:20 am

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
yes i agree everybody entitled to their own opinion just not their own facts

Well that is a contradiction, so they can have an opinion but they are not allowed to present the facts.

Speakfree MkII

actually its a very famous quote ....perhaps you should read more

But you're famous for not getting the point... so no change there then

Didge looking for a pointless argument MK XVXCCXVXiIII

by Eilzel Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:29 am

I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

by Guest Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:32 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well that is a contradiction, so they can have an opinion but they are not allowed to present the facts.

Speakfree MkII
actually its a very famous quote ....perhaps you should read more

But you're famous for not getting the point... so no change there then

Didge looking for a pointless argument MK XVXCCXVXiIII

Nope, just exposing stupidity!

by Ben Reilly Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:49 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

I agree, I think objective right and wrong do exist. It complicates things when people do bad things for good causes, but there's a line that most people aren't willing to cross, and that's generally the intentional infliction of suffering upon others. As far as I'm concerned, the more you dehumanize the people you don't like, the closer you move toward being willing to hurt them.

At the very least, I don't think you can say things like "these are the people causing all the problems" without some people concluding "we should just wipe them out, then."

by Eilzel Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:24 am

Good summary there. As innocent and 'logical' as the first sentence may seem to some it can't be justified in a world where idiots will then move to the second sentence.

by Andy Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:42 am

Hence a few sour people supported and attempted to justify the actions of Anders Breivik
They were and always will be totally wrong, but will argue their conviction to the cows come home..

by Raggamuffin Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:53 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:02 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

Let me ask you a counter-question -- why would you ridicule people for anything besides their beliefs? Aren't those, along with actions, the most important things about a person?

by Raggamuffin Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:03 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

Let me ask you a counter-question -- why would you ridicule people for anything besides their beliefs? Aren't those, along with actions, the most important things about a person?

Have I done that then? I didn't quite follow your question.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:07 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

Let me ask you a counter-question -- why would you ridicule people for anything besides their beliefs? Aren't those, along with actions, the most important things about a person?

Have I done that then? I didn't quite follow your question.

Not at all, I'm just opposed to using "one" as a subject, even if it is more clear Smile

I mean, why would "one" ridicule people for things other than their beliefs/actions?

by Raggamuffin Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:09 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Have I done that then? I didn't quite follow your question.

Not at all, I'm just opposed to using "one" as a subject, even if it is more clear I mean, why would "one" ridicule people for things other than their beliefs/actions?

Like what?

by Ben Reilly Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:13 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Have I done that then? I didn't quite follow your question.

Not at all, I'm just opposed to using "one" as a subject, even if it is more clear I mean, why would "one" ridicule people for things other than their beliefs/actions?

Like what?

Like, is it better to judge someone negatively for being born black, or better to judge someone for thinking we shouldn't put women in positions of authority on the basis of some bullshit theory about men making better leaders?

I would say you can't help being born whatever color you are, but you can sure as hell do something about being wrong. Right? Smile

by Raggamuffin Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:22 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Like what?

Like, is it better to judge someone negatively for being born black, or better to judge someone for thinking we shouldn't put women in positions of authority on the basis of some bullshit theory about men making better leaders?

I would say you can't help being born whatever color you are, but you can sure as hell do something about being wrong. Right?

Judging someone for those things isn't the same as ridiculing them. The trouble is that you really think you're right, and you won't accept that you might not be, right? Laughing

by Eilzel Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:21 am

Ridicule wasn't only aimed at religious belief ragga. Young Earth creationism though, radical racist claims, sexism, Scientology- these are a few 'views' or beliefs people have that absolutely should be ridiculed.

by Fluffyx Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:34 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

I agree, I think objective right and wrong do exist. It complicates things when people do bad things for good causes, but there's a line that most people aren't willing to cross, and that's generally the intentional infliction of suffering upon others. As far as I'm concerned, the more you dehumanize the people you don't like, the closer you move toward being willing to hurt them.
."

Excellent quote.

We are all human regardless of what we look like,gender,sexual preference,religion etc.

Everyone hurts and everyone feels.

I cannot abide this lumping Muslims together,or gay people together and pointing a big finger and saying 'you are wrong' which means 'you are less than us'

It's a destructive mentality and as you say Ben can lead to a justification of a pretty evil mindset.

by Fluffyx Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:29 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

Why would you want to ridicule someone .

As far as i'm concerned you could have ended your quote there.

by The Puzzler Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:18 pm

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by Guest Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:16 pm

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
actually its a very famous quote ....perhaps you should read more

But you're famous for not getting the point... so no change there then

Didge looking for a pointless argument MK XVXCCXVXiIII

Nope, just exposing stupidity!

Perhaps you should stop exposing yourself then ....just a thought Wink

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:20 am

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:

Nope, just exposing stupidity!
Perhaps you should stop exposing yourself then ....just a thought

Why has bigandy gone? - Page 5 32061bac06de896deedff1bac97013df

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:49 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Like what?

Like, is it better to judge someone negatively for being born black, or better to judge someone for thinking we shouldn't put women in positions of authority on the basis of some bullshit theory about men making better leaders?

I would say you can't help being born whatever color you are, but you can sure as hell do something about being wrong. Right?

Judging someone for those things isn't the same as ridiculing them. The trouble is that you really think you're right, and you won't accept that you might not be, right?

No, I know I'm right, on that issue at least. I know it's worse to be racist than it is to be whatever race the racist hates. And regarding ridicule, if I call a racist uninformed, I'm just judging, but if I call him an idiot, then I'm ridiculing, right? Seems to be mostly semantics.

by Lone Wolf Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:37 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
I'm afraid some people simply are wrong.

Religion being the obvious case here. Everyone can't be right, all but one outlook on religion can be truly correct.

However people should be free to express wrong views, and people should be free to criticize them and even ridicule them. It works both ways.

Of course actual incitement to hate or constantly demonizing sections of society is actual a danger to people and should be curtailed if it is felt to go to far. Otherwise we end up with chaos.

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

GET OFF your high horse Raggamuffin !!!

YOU constantly also seemed to believe that the scamster "heavenlyfartface" and his psycho stalker wifie "VoD" were primarily lambasted, ridiculed and occasionally harangued over their "faith"..

THAT claim is pure rubbish ~ most people abusing h/f and VoD did so out of self-defence ! Those two fraudsters assaulted me with their filthy abuse, and yet several of you automatically jumped to their defence when VoD screams that she's been picked on because she's "a person of faith" ! Rolling Eyes

THE truth all along has been that most people here who detest h/f and VoD so strongly, do so out of disgust a the criminal means that those two use to proudly make their living..

PEDDLING fake "all natural cancer cures", while promising that they can provide sufferers with relief with sham non-medical cures ~ and continually posting anti-medicine, anti-science and anti-vaccine stories and links, so that they can "score points" on how many people they can stir up in a few hours ? ::slap::

PERSONALLY, I don't believe that thos two even have the children that VoD writes about ~ that's just another of her concoctions to help her bond closer to her small minority of supporters.. NOR do I believe that h'f ever witnessed his own father dying slowly from cancer ~ his story-telling stands in contradiction to everything else that real people may experience personally ~ indeed, it wouldn't surprise me at all if h/f's father is still alive and residing in a retirement village somewhere !!!

AS FAR away from those two disgraces to humankind as he can manage.. ::smthg::

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:26 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Judging someone for those things isn't the same as ridiculing them. The trouble is that you really think you're right, and you won't accept that you might not be, right?

No, I know I'm right, on that issue at least. I know it's worse to be racist than it is to be whatever race the racist hates. And regarding ridicule, if I call a racist uninformed, I'm just judging, but if I call him an idiot, then I'm ridiculing, right? Seems to be mostly semantics.

Well then it's worse to mock Christianity than it is to be a Christian.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:30 am

Lone Wolf wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Why would you want to ridicule someone for their beliefs? I don't get why you would want to upset someone that way just because you don't share their faith.

People who say God doesn't exist think they're right, but can they prove it? No they can't.

GET OFF your high horse Raggamuffin !!!

YOU constantly also seemed to believe that the scamster "heavenlyfartface" and his psycho stalker wifie "VoD" were primarily lambasted, ridiculed and occasionally harangued over their "faith"..

THAT claim is pure rubbish ~ most people abusing h/f and VoD did so out of self-defence ! Those two fraudsters assaulted me with their filthy abuse, and yet several of you automatically jumped to their defence when VoD screams that she's been picked on because she's "a person of faith" !

THE truth all along has been that most people here who detest h/f and VoD so strongly, do so out of disgust a the criminal means that those two use to proudly make their living..

PEDDLING fake "all natural cancer cures", while promising that they can provide sufferers with relief with sham non-medical cures ~ and continually posting anti-medicine, anti-science and anti-vaccine stories and links, so that they can "score points" on how many people they can stir up in a few hours ?   ::slap::

PERSONALLY, I don't believe that thos two even have the children that VoD writes about ~ that's just another of her concoctions to help her bond closer to her small minority of supporters.. NOR do I believe that h'f ever witnessed his own father dying slowly from cancer ~ his story-telling stands in contradiction to everything else that real people may experience personally ~ indeed, it wouldn't surprise me at all if h/f's father is still alive and residing in a retirement village somewhere !!!

AS FAR away from those two disgraces to humankind as he can manage..   ::smthg::

I wasn't commenting about the alleged cure for cancer, I was commenting about the mockery of their religion. Do you see the difference?

As it happens, I'm rather interested in alternative medicine, although I think it's safer and less controversial to experiment with medical conditions which are not life-threatening and which do not respond to conventional medicine in a satisfactory way.

by Original Quill Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:
GET OFF your high horse Raggamuffin !!!

YOU constantly also seemed to believe that the scamster "heavenlyfartface" and his psycho stalker wifie "VoD" were primarily lambasted, ridiculed and occasionally harangued over their "faith"..

THAT claim is pure rubbish ~ most people abusing h/f and VoD did so out of self-defence ! Those two fraudsters assaulted me with their filthy abuse, and yet several of you automatically jumped to their defence when VoD screams that she's been picked on because she's "a person of faith" !

THE truth all along has been that most people here who detest h/f and VoD so strongly, do so out of disgust a the criminal means that those two use to proudly make their living..

PEDDLING fake "all natural cancer cures", while promising that they can provide sufferers with relief with sham non-medical cures ~ and continually posting anti-medicine, anti-science and anti-vaccine stories and links, so that they can "score points" on how many people they can stir up in a few hours ?   ::slap::

PERSONALLY, I don't believe that thos two even have the children that VoD writes about ~ that's just another of her concoctions to help her bond closer to her small minority of supporters.. NOR do I believe that h'f ever witnessed his own father dying slowly from cancer ~ his story-telling stands in contradiction to everything else that real people may experience personally ~ indeed, it wouldn't surprise me at all if h/f's father is still alive and residing in a retirement village somewhere !!!

AS FAR away from those two disgraces to humankind as he can manage..   ::smthg::

I wasn't commenting about the alleged cure for cancer, I was commenting about the mockery of their religion. Do you see the difference?

But the question, legitimately raised, is...do you see the connection?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wasn't commenting about the alleged cure for cancer, I was commenting about the mockery of their religion. Do you see the difference?

But the question, legitimately raised, is...do you see the connection?

No. Connection with what?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Judging someone for those things isn't the same as ridiculing them. The trouble is that you really think you're right, and you won't accept that you might not be, right?

No, I know I'm right, on that issue at least. I know it's worse to be racist than it is to be whatever race the racist hates. And regarding ridicule, if I call a racist uninformed, I'm just judging, but if I call him an idiot, then I'm ridiculing, right? Seems to be mostly semantics.

Well then it's worse to mock Christianity than it is to be a Christian.

That's a vast oversimplification. To "be a Christian" do you have to uphold the Christian community's belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry? How about some Christians' belief that gays should be put to death? How about some Christians' belief that the Bible says God punished black people by making them subservient to white people? How about the Christian teaching that women are to serve men?

And if you believe without proof in a religion that makes you push for one or more of these things, why is it worse for me to mock that than it is for you to do that? That is nonsense.

by Original Quill Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But the question, legitimately raised, is...do you see the connection?

No. Connection with what?

You've lost the plot already?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No. Connection with what?

You've lost the plot already?

How about you explain what you're banging on about?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:17 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then it's worse to mock Christianity than it is to be a Christian.

That's a vast oversimplification. To "be a Christian" do you have to uphold the Christian community's belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry? How about some Christians' belief that gays should be put to death? How about some Christians' belief that the Bible says God punished black people by making them subservient to white people? How about the Christian teaching that women are to serve men?

And if you believe without proof in a religion that makes you push for one or more of these things, why is it worse for me to mock that than it is for you to do that? That is nonsense.

What an absolute load of shite. Don't tell what I should or shouldn't believe - you're not qualified to do so. Look, you're just Christianphobic, and that makes you a bigot. Pretending that you're "right" doesn't really cut it.

by Original Quill Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You've lost the plot already?

How about you explain what you're banging on about?

Good Lawd, Raggs...It's in Bee's post...the very thing you took exception to. You had the plot then.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How about you explain what you're banging on about?

Good Lawd, Raggs...It's in Bee's post...the very thing you took exception to. You had the plot then.

I don't see what being a fan of alternative medicine has to do with religious faith.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then it's worse to mock Christianity than it is to be a Christian.

That's a vast oversimplification. To "be a Christian" do you have to uphold the Christian community's belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry? How about some Christians' belief that gays should be put to death? How about some Christians' belief that the Bible says God punished black people by making them subservient to white people? How about the Christian teaching that women are to serve men?

And if you believe without proof in a religion that makes you push for one or more of these things, why is it worse for me to mock that than it is for you to do that? That is nonsense.

What an absolute load of shite. Don't tell what I should or shouldn't believe - you're not qualified to do so. Look, you're just Christianphobic, and that makes you a bigot. Pretending that you're "right" doesn't really cut it.

I'm not telling anybody what to believe, Raggs, I'm asking whether someone's belief should give them the right to make decisions for others. If you think that because you believe in Christ or Allah or aliens or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that should give you the right to tell me whether I can be gay or smoke pot or eat green beans, I'm going to take exception. Just like you would take exception if I decided some belief I decided to embrace gave me the right to tell you not to do things that didn't hurt anyone.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:29 pm

By the way, with the majority of my family being Christian, the idea that I'm Christianphobic doesn't really hold water ...

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:34 pm

Lastly, Raggs, if you're so bent out of shape over people ridiculing others' beliefs, why do I never see you defend any belief system besides Christianity? You certainly never said a peep when smelly was saying that dead Muslims made him smile.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:12 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What an absolute load of shite. Don't tell what I should or shouldn't believe - you're not qualified to do so. Look, you're just Christianphobic, and that makes you a bigot. Pretending that you're "right" doesn't really cut it.

I'm not telling anybody what to believe, Raggs, I'm asking whether someone's belief should give them the right to make decisions for others. If you think that because you believe in Christ or Allah or aliens or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that should give you the right to tell me whether I can be gay or smoke pot or eat green beans, I'm going to take exception. Just like you would take exception if I decided some belief I decided to embrace gave me the right to tell you not to do things that didn't hurt anyone.

You are telling me what to believe, you're telling me that I must think that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. You lump all Christians together, and you're intolerant of them.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Lastly, Raggs, if you're so bent out of shape over people ridiculing others' beliefs, why do I never see you defend any belief system besides Christianity? You certainly never said a peep when smelly was saying that dead Muslims made him smile.

Why should I defend or condemn anyone? I don't mock Muslims, and it's not my responsibility if someone does so. Besides, there's so much shite about Muslims on here that I rarely read it.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:By the way, with the majority of my family being Christian, the idea that I'm Christianphobic doesn't really hold water ...

Perhaps you should confess to them. Your dislike of Christianity and Christians is very apparent on here.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:31 pm

I don't lump all Christians together. I'm saying, if your Christian beliefs lead you to unjustly interfere with other people peaceful living their own lives and exercising their own freedoms, should I bite my tongue, or judge you as being in the wrong? Of course I should judge you as being in the wrong if you seek to impose your personal rules for you own life on other people.

I don't dislike Christianity; I dislike the people who use it to limit other people's peaceful exercise of freedom. I don't believe in god or gods, and thus have come to the rational conclusion that religions are fallacious, but that doesn't mean I dislike the people who believe them, if they don't hurt others.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I don't lump all Christians together. I'm saying, if your Christian beliefs lead you to unjustly interfere with other people peaceful living their own lives and exercising their own freedoms, should I bite my tongue, or judge you as being in the wrong? Of course I should judge you as being in the wrong if you seek to impose your personal rules for you own life on other people.

I don't dislike Christianity; I dislike the people who use it to limit other people's peaceful exercise of freedom. I don't believe in god or gods, and thus have come to the rational conclusion that religions are fallacious, but that doesn't mean I dislike the people who believe them, if they don't hurt others.

If a gay person's beliefs have an impact on Christians, are you so judgemental about them as well?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I don't lump all Christians together. I'm saying, if your Christian beliefs lead you to unjustly interfere with other people peaceful living their own lives and exercising their own freedoms, should I bite my tongue, or judge you as being in the wrong? Of course I should judge you as being in the wrong if you seek to impose your personal rules for you own life on other people.

I don't dislike Christianity; I dislike the people who use it to limit other people's peaceful exercise of freedom. I don't believe in god or gods, and thus have come to the rational conclusion that religions are fallacious, but that doesn't mean I dislike the people who believe them, if they don't hurt others.

If a gay person's beliefs have an impact on Christians, are you so judgemental about them as well?

It's kind of hard to see how that would happen. I assume you mean something about how churches are "going to be forced" to marry gay people, or how schoolteachers "are going to have to teach it's normal to be gay" regardless of what Christians prefer?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:02 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If a gay person's beliefs have an impact on Christians, are you so judgemental about them as well?

It's kind of hard to see how that would happen. I assume you mean something about how churches are "going to be forced" to marry gay people, or how schoolteachers "are going to have to teach it's normal to be gay" regardless of what Christians prefer?

I mean gay people being abusive towards Christians, suing them because they couldn't stay at their B&B, and defacing the Bible at art exhibitions. Perhaps you think that all gay people must be paragons of virtue?

by Ben Reilly Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If a gay person's beliefs have an impact on Christians, are you so judgemental about them as well?

It's kind of hard to see how that would happen. I assume you mean something about how churches are "going to be forced" to marry gay people, or how schoolteachers "are going to have to teach it's normal to be gay" regardless of what Christians prefer?

I mean gay people being abusive towards Christians, suing them because they couldn't stay at their B&B, and defacing the Bible at art exhibitions. Perhaps you think that all gay people must be paragons of virtue?

Of course I don't think that. Defacing the Bible at art exhibitions and general abusiveness aren't good, obviously. I'm not too upset about the B&B owners, though -- they're just bigots, and allowing business owners to discriminate creates a second class of citizenship.

Again, your religious beliefs have no right to influence my peaceful existence.

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