A view from Africa

veya_victaous wrote:TO be fair Palestine was fucked when the West decided to GIVE the Palestinians land to Israel..

They didn't start it ... the west did.... what did we think woudl happen when we gave away someone else's home?

The Balfour Declaration led the Jewish community in Britain and America into believing that Great Britain would support the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

To the Arab population who lived there, it was their homeland and had been promised to them by the Allies for help in defeating the Turks by the McMahon Agreement - though the British claimed the agreement gave no such promise.

The primary cause of trouble was the increased influx of Jews who had emigrated to Palestine. The number of Jews in the region had doubled in ten years

veya_victaous wrote:the ONLY fair solution is to give the Palestinians England to make up for it.. the English gave Palestine to the Jews so it is fair and just. that their country get given away to the people who's country they gave away.       

Guest wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:the ONLY fair solution is to give the Palestinians England to make up for it.. the English gave Palestine to the Jews so it is fair and just. that their country get given away to the people who's country they gave away.       

Veya,that is actually a good idea.But unfortunately for us,the UK is full of them already.

Now from I understand,you are fully in favour of mass immigration,so maybe they can all go to your Nirvana.......What do you reckon?.......A good idea?

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Guest wrote:

Veya,that is actually a good idea.But unfortunately for us,the UK is full of them already.

Now from I understand,you are fully in favour of mass immigration,so maybe they can all go to your Nirvana.......What do you reckon?.......A good idea?

One of the alternative sites considered for a Jewish homeland during the 1920s and '30s was down here in Oz --  including one area over in the Kimberleys region in Western Australia...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plans-for-a-jewish-homeland-in-tasmania/2674616

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

Original Quill wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


One of the alternative sites considered for a Jewish homeland during the 1920s and '30s was down here in Oz --  including one area over in the Kimberleys region in Western Australia...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plans-for-a-jewish-homeland-in-tasmania/2674616

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

Um...Alice Springs or a resort on the Mediterranean Coast?  Tough choice.  Although I do love Sydney, Melbourne and your lake, wolf.

But, frankly, it's easier to steal land from people of color.

Stripped to the bare essentials, the Arab case is based upon the fact that Palestine is a country which the Arabs have occupied for more than a thousand years, and a denial of the Jewish historical claims to Palestine. [emphasis added]

o Invasion, followed by occupation and settling the land
o Conversion of Jews to Islam (which we have already discussed)
o Immigration due to economic problems where they lived and/or economic opportunity in Palestine

But not only are the Palestinian Arabs not descendants of Canaanites, it is highly doubtful that more than a very few are even descended from those who settled the country as part of the Arab invasion of the 7th century. For over a thousand years following the Arab conquest, Palestine underwent a series of devastating invasions, followed by massacres of the existing population: Seljuk Turks and Fatimid reconquerors were followed by Crusaders who were followed by waves of Mongol tribes who were followed in turn by Tartars, Mamelukes, Turks, and incessant Bedouin raiders.

o  Egyptians arrived in a number of waves, especially from 1832 to 1840.
o  Sudanese successfully pioneered in the swampy marshlands.
o  Tribes of Bedouin came from as far away as Libya to settle on the coastal plain.
o  Lebanese Christians resettled abandoned villages in the Galilee
o  Armenians, Syrians, and Turks settled in the coastal towns
o  French expansion in North Africa resulted in waves of refugees immigrating to Palestine
o  Many of the followers of the Algerian resistance leader Abd el Kader founded villages in the Galilee
o  Russian expansion into the Caucasus led to the emigration of many of its Muslim peoples (Circassians and Georgians) to Palestine
o  Austrian advance into the Balkans led to the emigration of Bosnian Muslims to Palestine.
o  Turkomans from Russian Central Asia and Kurds also immigrated

The inhabitants of Palestine are composed of a large number of elements, differing widely in ethnological affinities, language and religion. It may be interesting to mention, as an illustration of their hetereogeneousness, that early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages, spoken in Jerusalem as vernaculars, was there drawn up by a party of men whose various official positions enabled them to possess accurate information on the subject.

In each there is primarily a large Arab element...There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy, principally engaged in trade. The extraordinary development of Jewish colonization has since 1870 effected a revolution in the balance of population in some parts of the country, notably in Jerusalem.

This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.

It was always the foreign soldier who was the police power in Palestine. The Tulunides brought in Turks and Negroes. The Fatamids introduced Berbers, Slavs, Greeks, Kurds, and mercenaries of all kinds. The Mamelukes imported legions of Georgians and Circassians. Each monarch for his personal safety relied on great levies of slave warriors. Saladin, hard-pressed by the Crusaders, received one hundred and fifty thousand Persians who were given lands in Galilee and the Sidon district for their services.

Out of this human patch-work of Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Kalmucks, Persians, Crusaders, Tartars, Indians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, Sudanese, Turks, Mongols, Romans, Kharmazians, Greeks, pilgrims, wanderers, ne'er-do-wells and adventurers, invaders, slaves...was formed that hodge-podge of blood and mentality we call today "Levantine."...

In the fourteenth century, drought caused the immigration into Palestine of eighteen thousand "tents" of Yurate Tartars from the Euphrates. Soon followed twenty thousand Ashiri under Gaza, and four thousand Mongols under Moulai, who occupied the Jordan Valley and settled from Jerusalem south. Kaisaite and Yemenite tribes followed in their trail... 

In 1830 the Albanian conqueror Mehemet [Muhammad] Ali colonized Jaffa, Nablus, and Beisan with Egyptian soldiers and their Sudanese allies. Fourteen years later, Lynch estimated the thirteen thousand inhabitants of Jaffa to be composed of eight thousand Turco-Egyptians, four thousand Greeks and Armenians, and one thousand Jews and Maronites. He did not consider that there were any Arabs at all in that city.

One hundred years ago, [Jaffa] had a population of four thousand. Today it holds seventy thousand, overwhelmingly Arab, who are largely descendants of the Egyptians and Ethiopians brought in by the conqueror Ibrahim Pasha [Muhammad Ali's son]. The few thousand Jews who lived here fled during the 1936 riots, abandoning their shops and property.

Indigenous groups are descendants of the peoples who inhabited land or territory prior to colonization or the establishment of state borders. They often have strong attachment to their ancestral lands and natural resources, an attribute that can distinguish them from other minority groups. They may also have distinct social. economic and political systems, languages cultures and beliefs. Their right to self-determination has frequently been impeded by subsequent migration of other ethnic groups into the territory where they reside. (p. 201)

Article 11
1. Indigenous peoples have the right to practise and revitalize their cultural traditions and customs. This includes the right to maintain, protect and develop the
past, present and future manifestations of their cultures, such as archaeological and historical sites, artefacts, designs, ceremonies, technologies and visual and
performing arts and literature.

Article 31
1. Indigenous peoples have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expressions, as well as the manifestations of their sciences, technologies and cultures, including human and genetic resources, seeds, medicines, knowledge of the properties of fauna and flora, oral traditions, literatures, designs, sports and traditional games and visual and performing arts. They also have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their intellectual property over such cultural heritage, traditional knowledge, and traditional cultural expressions.