Pizza Express uses only halal chicken

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‘We spend a lot of time listening to our guests and do our best to cater to their needs. Whether this means creating vegan-friendly pizzas or serving halal chicken, we take their feedback seriously.’

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The Mail on Sunday has previously revealed that halal meat from animals who had been stunned before slaughter was being sold in schools, hospitals, pubs and at famous sporting venues such as Ascot and Twickenham.
All the beef, chicken and lamb sold to fans at Wembley was secretly prepared in accordance with Islamic law, while Cheltenham College was one of several top public schools which also served halal chicken to pupils without informing them.


Add to the list nandos and KFC.................

I will be asking in the future before I eat the origin of the meat, unknown and I will not be ordering.

Why should we have to put up with this because some can't eat what we eat ?

gerber wrote:" Anger as Denmark bans halal meat

Denmark is not the first country to prohibit religious slaughter.  Other countries including Norway, Poland, Sweden and Switzerland have already introduced this law.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140220196373

Why won't the UK do the same.....  ?

Are you saying Halal stunned should be banned Gerber?

Didge wrote:

gerber wrote:" Anger as Denmark bans halal meat

Denmark is not the first country to prohibit religious slaughter.  Other countries including Norway, Poland, Sweden and Switzerland have already introduced this law.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140220196373

Why won't the UK do the same.....  ?

Are you saying Halal stunned should be banned Gerber?

No - banned from sale full stop. Unless very clearly labelled. I should have as much choice or an option as Muslims do.

gerber wrote:

Didge wrote:


Are you saying Halal stunned should be banned Gerber?

No - banned from sale full stop.  Unless very clearly labelled.  I should have as much choice or an option as Muslims do.

85% is stunned and we also know what meat is sold by places and where it is bought from, so what choices are you being denied?
Do you not go to curry houses now then Gerber as Eilzel pointed out?

Didge wrote:

gerber wrote:

No - banned from sale full stop.  Unless very clearly labelled.  I should have as much choice or an option as Muslims do.

85% is stunned and we also know what meat is sold by places and where it is bought from, so what choices are you being denied?
Do you not go to curry houses now then Gerber as Eilzel pointed out?

I had no idea halal meat was used so wildy in the UK nor it was sold unlabelled by supermarkets. I will not be purchasing and I do not intend to eat in curry houses again.

gerber wrote:

David wrote:

Then let's introduce compulsory comprehensive labelling.  We are old enough to make our own choices.

That is all that is needed.  We can all then choose.  the industry though will no doubt opposes it as many will realise the amount of Halal in our stores.  

It will be the end of halal as a lot of people won't chose it.

gerber wrote:

Didge wrote:



85% is stunned and we also know what meat is sold by places and where it is bought from, so what choices are you being denied?
Do you not go to curry houses now then Gerber as Eilzel pointed out?

I had no idea halal meat was used so wildy in the UK nor it was sold unlabelled by supermarkets.  I will not be purchasing and I do not intend to eat in curry houses again.

Your choice gerber, but I do find the arguments as stated earlier very wierd and strange to say the least when there is malpractice in many non-halal slaughter houses, thus making the view point weird if you only take a view on Halal, when most of it is stunned anyway. It seems to me even if Halal slaughter met every requirement some would still find an excuse to say they would not eat it, which then begs the questions as to why

Eilzel wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

yes well you're not overly bright

so the other implications of this escape you completely

Clearly; how's that God complex going smelly arse   

thought you didnt believe in god

smelly_bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Clearly; how's that God complex going smelly arse   

thought you didnt believe in god

 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 


That really shows how daft you are by that reply

 

Chickens aren't "stunned" before slaughter !!!

WHO starts that sort of nonsense crappola in the popular press, anyways ? More journo's not doing adequate research into their stories, no doubt..

gerber wrote:
" Anger as Denmark bans halal meat

Denmark is not the first country to prohibit religious slaughter. Other countries including Norway, Poland, Sweden and Switzerland have already introduced this law.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140220196373

Why won't the UK do the same..... ?

 

POSSIBLY because :

1. NONE of those countries named even have measurable populations of Muslims and Jews among their citizenry; and

2. FOUR out of those five countries listed there already are among the world's Top Ten for pandering to neo-Nazi's and Fascists..  

gerber wrote:

Didge wrote:



85% is stunned and we also know what meat is sold by places and where it is bought from, so what choices are you being denied?
Do you not go to curry houses now then Gerber as Eilzel pointed out?

I had no idea halal meat was used so wildy in the UK nor it was sold unlabelled by supermarkets.  I will not be purchasing and I do not intend to eat in curry houses again.

Really? You are honesty telling me you had NO idea your average Indian takeaway was halal?

^David; over 100 KFCs and most takeaways are halal, they haven't suffered. People still holiday in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc with no issue regarding the food they are eating.

Truth is people don't care that much.

Lone Wolf wrote: 

Chickens aren't "stunned" before slaughter !!!

WHO starts that sort of nonsense crappola in the popular press, anyways ?

gerber wrote:
" Anger as Denmark bans halal meat

Denmark is not the first country to prohibit religious slaughter. Other countries including Norway, Poland, Sweden and Switzerland have already introduced this law.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140220196373

Why won't the UK do the same..... ?

 

POSSIBLY because :

1. NONE of those countries have named have measurable populations of Muslims and Jews among their citizenry; and

2. FOUR out of those five countries listed there already are among the world's Top Ten for pandering to neo-Nazi's and Fascists..     

Sorry Wolf, we agree on much but in no way do any Scandinavian countries pander to neo nazis; they are among the most liberal progressive nations in the world- Poland however..

 

DENMARK has the third highest number of Nazi's measured as per 100,000 people in their population, among countries in western Europe, while Sweden and Norway both have increasing numbers...

Sweden even has an increasingly fascist government these days ~ we only need to look at the way they are chasing Julian Assange. Nothing "Liberal" about that little shithole anymore..

(Non-Scandinavian, but still strongly Teutonic all the same, Switzerland was reported last year as being the "whitest" country on the planet ~ and they have been the Nazi's bankers since the 1930s.)

THOSE swinging Scandinavian countries have certainly changed their political stripes over the years..   

Eilzel wrote:

gerber wrote:

I had no idea halal meat was used so wildy in the UK nor it was sold unlabelled by supermarkets.  I will not be purchasing and I do not intend to eat in curry houses again.

Really? You are honesty telling me you had NO idea your average Indian takeaway was halal?

^David; over 100 KFCs and most takeaways are halal, they haven't suffered. People still holiday in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc with no issue regarding the food they are eating.

Truth is people don't care that much.

If it were compulsive comprehensive labelling things would change in this country.  Regarding people abroad they do as the locals do.  They have the choice. That is the point. Here in this situation there is no informed choice.

David wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Really? You are honesty telling me you had NO idea your average Indian takeaway was halal?

^David; over 100 KFCs and most takeaways are halal, they haven't suffered. People still holiday in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc with no issue regarding the food they are eating.

Truth is people don't care that much.

If it were compulsive comprehensive labelling things would change in this country.  Regarding people abroad they do as the locals do.  That is the point.  

If people go to most Indian takeaways presuming they are not halal then no offense to them, but they are stupid. The KFCs that serve halal food are labelled as such and don't suffer for it, probably the same will occur at Subway.

And if people are happy to eat halal abroad then those same people wont care here. In supermarkets it should be labelled I agree; but if people are only going to be picky in supermarket and other shops, then really they are being hypocrites.

Lone Wolf wrote: 

DENMARK has the third highest number of Nazi's measured as per 100,000 people in their population, among countries in western Europe, while Sweden and Norway both have increasing numbers...

Sweden even has an increasingly fascist government these days ~ we only need to look at the way they are chasing Julian Assange. Nothing "Liberal" about that little shithole anymore..

(Non-Scandinavian, but still strongly Teutonic all the same, Switzerland was reported last year as being the "whitest" country on the planet ~ and they have been the Nazi's bankers since the 1930s.)

THOSE swinging Scandinavian countries have certainly changed their political stripes over the years..   

Increasing numbers does not equate to a country being one of the most fascist in the world   

Sweden chases Assange cause the US government wants him; as for the Swiss being one of the whitest, that is hardly a fault, and again doesn't equate to nazism   

Eilzel wrote:

David wrote:

If it were compulsive comprehensive labelling things would change in this country.  Regarding people abroad they do as the locals do.  That is the point.  

If people go to most Indian takeaways presuming they are not halal then no offense to them, but they are stupid. The KFCs that serve halal food are labelled as such and don't suffer for it, probably the same will occur at Subway.

And if people are happy to eat halal abroad then those same people wont care here. In supermarkets it should be labelled I agree; but if people are only going to be picky in supermarket and other shops, then really they are being hypocrites.

I stick to my point that if there is a clear labelling policy and more information people would have a choice. Once again it is a case of misinformation. I will not be forced eating halal if I choose not to and there is a clear label. You want to eat halal fine it is your choice.

David wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

If people go to most Indian takeaways presuming they are not halal then no offense to them, but they are stupid. The KFCs that serve halal food are labelled as such and don't suffer for it, probably the same will occur at Subway.

And if people are happy to eat halal abroad then those same people wont care here. In supermarkets it should be labelled I agree; but if people are only going to be picky in supermarket and other shops, then really they are being hypocrites.

I stick to my point that if there is a clear labelling policy and more information people would have a choice.  Once again it is a case of misinformation.   I will not be forced eating halal if I choose not to and there is a clear label.  You want to eat halal fine it is your choice.

So you don't want to be eating halal, I understand.

But I must ask, would you holiday and eat in a Muslim country?

Eilzel wrote:

gerber wrote:

I had no idea halal meat was used so wildy in the UK nor it was sold unlabelled by supermarkets.  I will not be purchasing and I do not intend to eat in curry houses again.

Really? You are honesty telling me you had NO idea your average Indian takeaway was halal?

^David; over 100 KFCs and most takeaways are halal, they haven't suffered. People still holiday in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc with no issue regarding the food they are eating.

Truth is people don't care that much.

Just been listening to a food inspector on tv news. He said he could see the problem with kosher, because they don't prestun, but he said the difference between halal and 'our' killing is that, apart from the prayer, there is no difference as virtually all halal is now prestunned. The couple of percentage that is not is killed for halal butchers that only sell to very strict Muslims, it's not sold to supermarkets etc.

Also today there was a joint request for labelling from Muslim and Jewish religious leaders:

In a letter to the Telegraph, the Muslim Council of Britain and Shechita UK, a group that promotes awareness about the Jewish methods of killing animals for food, insist that animals killed in ways that comply with religious rules are not treated any worse than those conventionally slaughtered.

According to the Food Standards Agency, at least 90% of animals slaughtered for halal meat are stunned before being killed, despite the insistence of some strict Muslim groups that stunning means the meat no longer qualifies as halal.

Animal welfare campaigners, including the RSPCA and Compassion in World Farming, are backing a campaign by the British Veterinary Association to ban slaughter without stunning.

In their letter, the MCB and Shechita said meat labelling should clearly state whether animals had been mechanically stunned prior to slaughter. It states: "They [consumers] should be told the method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any other approved methods."

The groups said that animal welfare groups should also support such comprehensive labelling.

"It would offer all consumers genuine choice, whether they are motivated by animal welfare, religious observance, or even intolerance of anyone who looks or worships differently to them," the letter said.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/halal-meat-row-jewish-Muslim-leader-clearer-labelling

David wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

If people go to most Indian takeaways presuming they are not halal then no offense to them, but they are stupid. The KFCs that serve halal food are labelled as such and don't suffer for it, probably the same will occur at Subway.

And if people are happy to eat halal abroad then those same people wont care here. In supermarkets it should be labelled I agree; but if people are only going to be picky in supermarket and other shops, then really they are being hypocrites.

I stick to my point that if there is a clear labelling policy and more information people would have a choice.  Once again it is a case of misinformation.   I will not be forced eating halal if I choose not to and there is a clear label.  You want to eat halal fine it is your choice.

But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Really? You are honesty telling me you had NO idea your average Indian takeaway was halal?

^David; over 100 KFCs and most takeaways are halal, they haven't suffered. People still holiday in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc with no issue regarding the food they are eating.

Truth is people don't care that much.

Just been listening to a food inspector on tv news.   He said he could see the problem with kosher, because they don't prestun, but he said the difference between halal and 'our' killing is that, apart from the prayer, there is no difference as virtually all halal is now prestunned.   The couple of percentage that is not is killed for halal butchers that only sell to very strict Muslims, it's not sold to supermarkets etc.  

Also today there was a joint request for labelling from Muslim and Jewish religious leaders:

In a letter to the Telegraph, the Muslim Council of Britain and Shechita UK, a group that promotes awareness about the Jewish methods of killing animals for food, insist that animals killed in ways that comply with religious rules are not treated any worse than those conventionally slaughtered.

According to the Food Standards Agency, at least 90% of animals slaughtered for halal meat are stunned before being killed, despite the insistence of some strict Muslim groups that stunning means the meat no longer qualifies as halal.

Animal welfare campaigners, including the RSPCA and Compassion in World Farming, are backing a campaign by the British Veterinary Association to ban slaughter without stunning.

In their letter, the MCB and Shechita said meat labelling should clearly state whether animals had been mechanically stunned prior to slaughter. It states: "They [consumers] should be told the method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any other approved methods."

The groups said that animal welfare groups should also support such comprehensive labelling.

"It would offer all consumers genuine choice, whether they are motivated by animal welfare, religious observance, or even intolerance of anyone who looks or worships differently to them," the letter said.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/halal-meat-row-jewish-Muslim-leader-clearer-labelling

Haha, somehow I don't think many of the public would like to know how their meat is slaughtered; they just know the basic (throat slitting Muslims) and that's enough   

Didge wrote:

David wrote:

I stick to my point that if there is a clear labelling policy and more information people would have a choice.  Once again it is a case of misinformation.   I will not be forced eating halal if I choose not to and there is a clear label.  You want to eat halal fine it is your choice.

But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

Didge wrote:

David wrote:

I stick to my point that if there is a clear labelling policy and more information people would have a choice.  Once again it is a case of misinformation.   I will not be forced eating halal if I choose not to and there is a clear label.  You want to eat halal fine it is your choice.

But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

I am sorry Didge I am not a sheep (sorry sheep) I don't blindly follow. Halal meat can not be forced onto me. I do have a choice, haven't I? Why do the practices of a minority be subjected to the majority? If I went to Israel or Egypt would I tell them what to do?

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:



But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

Not seen a thread on it to be honest Sassy.

Eilzel wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Just been listening to a food inspector on tv news.   He said he could see the problem with kosher, because they don't prestun, but he said the difference between halal and 'our' killing is that, apart from the prayer, there is no difference as virtually all halal is now prestunned.   The couple of percentage that is not is killed for halal butchers that only sell to very strict Muslims, it's not sold to supermarkets etc.  

Also today there was a joint request for labelling from Muslim and Jewish religious leaders:

In a letter to the Telegraph, the Muslim Council of Britain and Shechita UK, a group that promotes awareness about the Jewish methods of killing animals for food, insist that animals killed in ways that comply with religious rules are not treated any worse than those conventionally slaughtered.

According to the Food Standards Agency, at least 90% of animals slaughtered for halal meat are stunned before being killed, despite the insistence of some strict Muslim groups that stunning means the meat no longer qualifies as halal.

Animal welfare campaigners, including the RSPCA and Compassion in World Farming, are backing a campaign by the British Veterinary Association to ban slaughter without stunning.

In their letter, the MCB and Shechita said meat labelling should clearly state whether animals had been mechanically stunned prior to slaughter. It states: "They [consumers] should be told the method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any other approved methods."

The groups said that animal welfare groups should also support such comprehensive labelling.

"It would offer all consumers genuine choice, whether they are motivated by animal welfare, religious observance, or even intolerance of anyone who looks or worships differently to them," the letter said.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/halal-meat-row-jewish-Muslim-leader-clearer-labelling

Haha, somehow I don't think many of the public would like to know how their meat is slaughtered; they just know the basic (throat slitting Muslims) and that's enough   

ALL meat has to have the arteries opened while the heart is still pumping so that the blood pumps out, or the meat would taint very quickly and we would get all kinds of illnesses. Strikes me, people like to kid themselves about how meat gets on their table.

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:



But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

I was not up in arms sassy. I am for choice and democracy.

David wrote:

Didge wrote:



But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

I am sorry Didge I am not a sheep (sorry sheep) I don't blindly follow.   Halal meat can not be forced onto me.  I do have a choice, haven't I?  Why do the practices of a minority be subjected to the majority?  If I went to Israel or Egypt would I tell them what to do?

Would you holiday and eat in Israel or Egypt or Turkey Mr D? x

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

Not seen a thread on it to be honest Sassy.

Didge I do have a lot of Jewish friends and it is their choice. But they don't impose kosher on me.

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

Not seen a thread on it to be honest Sassy.

The survey showed that around 88% of animals slaughtered by the Halal method were stunned before slaughter. Although at the moment no animals slaughtered by the Shechita (Jewish) method in Great Britain are stunned before slaughter, the FSA survey did indicate that 10% of cattle and calves slaughtered by the Shechita method in Great Britain received a post-cut stun¹.

w.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232719611043&mode=prd

Eilzel wrote:

David wrote:

I am sorry Didge I am not a sheep (sorry sheep) I don't blindly follow.   Halal meat can not be forced onto me.  I do have a choice, haven't I?  Why do the practices of a minority be subjected to the majority?  If I went to Israel or Egypt would I tell them what to do?

Would you holiday and eat in Israel or Egypt or Turkey Mr D? x

Yes I would Mr E x I would not tell them what to do.

David wrote:

Sassy wrote:

The point is Didge, it does and has done for some time, the only difference is the prayer.

No Kosher on the other hand is prestunned, I wonder how many people are up in arms about kosher?

I was not up in arms sassy.  I am for choice and democracy.

Rubbish, unmarked kosher is sold the same as unmarked halal, halal is prestunned, kosher isn't. So if you are up in arms about halal but not kosher, there can only be one reason.

David wrote:

Didge wrote:



But David, if Halal conformed to all practices, would you still have a problem?
Again it seems to me to be a poor argument, when as stated other animal slaughter where there is abuse is ignored.
It is like someone claiming to not wear make up if animal tested, yet wearing make up that claims it is animal tested free ignoring that the ingredients that go into the product are animal tested. 
Can you not see how to claim humane rights to animals on one view ignores the other makes the whole view point illogical?

I am sorry Didge I am not a sheep (sorry sheep) I don't blindly follow.   Halal meat can not be forced onto me.  I do have a choice, haven't I?  Why do the practices of a minority be subjected to the majority?  If I went to Israel or Egypt would I tell them what to do?

Not saying it should be David or that you should be denied a choice, but that is not what I am asking you or how you are deciding to choose is what I am asking you about mate.
If Halal is seen to be a cheaper option for places to use in stores then that is down to the company to decide and the public to also decide if they wish to buy. Clearly it has little affect or the fact most people in reality do not even think about how animals are slaughtered to provide meat. My view is though people are making a point on halal, when it is stunned as you request it should be to still decide not to eat it, so what is the reason still not to eat Halal, when as seen other non-halal slaughter houses have poor practices?
To me that is ignoring one problem, thus eating meat from less humane slaughter methods, yet you are happy not to know which non-halal slaughter house is used to provide all other meat, why?
Can you see how that view contradicts. If people are for humane treatment and food to be labelled then surely this should mean a label from every single slaughter house, that would be the fairest would it not, using the view on humane treatment?  

Again to me I find the whole argument very flawed, because daily we all use products, that have many ingredients that are animal tested, of which nobody jumps up and down because they claim to be animal tested free (well the product might be but the ingredients are not) showing a complete lie and yet are happy to ignore this abuse of animals or that it is not labeled as such with the ingredients tested, can you not see the contradiction on humane treatment of animals?

David wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Would you holiday and eat in Israel or Egypt or Turkey Mr D? x

 Yes I would Mr E x  I would not tell them what to do.  

Ok fair play.

So you would eat halal or kosher meat in Egypt or Israel, cool, and that's because you appreciate playing by their cultural rules, cool   

BUT; what is your objection then to eating halal food in England (aside from you not being told before hand)?

Sassy wrote:

David wrote:

I was not up in arms sassy.  I am for choice and democracy.

Rubbish, unmarked kosher is sold the same as unmarked halal, halal is prestunned, kosher isn't.   So if you are up in arms about halal but not kosher, there can only be one reason.

Just bloddy read my post silly cow. Just read my posts. WHat did I reply to Didge?

Eilzel wrote:

David wrote:
 Yes I would Mr E x  I would not tell them what to do.  

Ok fair play.

So you would eat halal or kosher meat in Egypt or Israel, cool, and that's because you appreciate playing by their cultural rules, cool   

BUT; what is your objection then to eating halal food in England (aside from you not being told before hand)?

I did not say I would eat I said I would go ...   

David wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Ok fair play.

So you would eat halal or kosher meat in Egypt or Israel, cool, and that's because you appreciate playing by their cultural rules, cool   

BUT; what is your objection then to eating halal food in England (aside from you not being told before hand)?

I did not say I would eat I said I would go ...   

So you'd avoid meat the whole time?

David wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Rubbish, unmarked kosher is sold the same as unmarked halal, halal is prestunned, kosher isn't.   So if you are up in arms about halal but not kosher, there can only be one reason.

Just bloddy read my post silly cow.   Just read my posts.  WHat did I reply to Didge?

I did, you said you jewish friends don't force kosher on you, but you seem to think halal is forced on you because it is sold unmarked.   So is kosher.  Country file did a really good bit on halal and kosher meat.  Kosher slaughtered meat is on the market as only the fore legs are kosher and the hind legs are sold as non kosher.  So half of every animal slaughtered by the kosher method, and they don't prestun, halal do, is sent to the main markets as non kosher.

And I suggest you grow up and debate properly.

Sassy wrote:

David wrote:

Just bloddy read my post silly cow.   Just read my posts.  WHat did I reply to Didge?

I did, you said you jewish friends don't force kosher on you, but you seem to think halal is forced on you because it is sold unmarked.   So is kosher.  Country file did a really good bit on halal and kosher meat.  Kosher slaughtered meat is on the market as only the fore legs are kosher and the hind legs are sold as non kosher.  So half of every animal slaughtered by the kosher method, and they don't prestun, halal do, is sent to the main markets as non kosher.

And I suggest you grow up and debate properly.

I do know all that sassy and that is my point.   Whether it is KOSHER or HALAL I have the choice whether to eat it or not.  My Jewish friends know that there will be a vegetarian option for David.

David wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I did, you said you jewish friends don't force kosher on you, but you seem to think halal is forced on you because it is sold unmarked.   So is kosher.  Country file did a really good bit on halal and kosher meat.  Kosher slaughtered meat is on the market as only the fore legs are kosher and the hind legs are sold as non kosher.  So half of every animal slaughtered by the kosher method, and they don't prestun, halal do, is sent to the main markets as non kosher.

And I suggest you grow up and debate properly.

I do know all that sassy and that is my point.   Whether it is KOSHER or HALAL I have the choice whether to eat it or not.  My Jewish friends know that there will be a vegetarian option for David.

Fine, but we are debating halal being sold or put on pizzas. As it is prestunned, and killed in exactly the same way as 'ours', because all meat has to have the arteries opened while the heart if beating as i said, why are you and others, making so much fuss about halal, but never mention kosher, which is in the meat markets all the time, unmarked, and they don't prestun?

I would like to know whether my chicken was reared as free range so that before I devoured it I would know whether it was a happy chicken and it had a good life and that it skipped along quite happily to meet its executioner without the need for a blindfold.

People kill animals and we eat them. We even take their young away from them and we eat them as well. We even eat their unborn but there is no labeling on dairy products to say if any content came from eggs that were free range or battery reared chickens.

If anyone has any real issues about animals and how they arrive on the menu then best thing to just don't eat meat.

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:If chicken is Halal anyway, I wonder why Pizza express worded it as though they were changing it to Halal as per customer requests?
Why not just say its halal anyway?

They did a year ago, again what is the big deal here, if it is humane rights, this is covered by those claiming stunning, so again I fail to see the fuss over a prayer?
I wonder have you ever sat down with a family when they bless food, did you have an issue Nems?

Whats humane rights?
Fuss over a prayer? THe Muslims seem to think its a fuss worth making

Irn Bru wrote:I would like to know whether my chicken was reared as free range so that before I devoured it I would know whether it was a happy chicken and it had a good life and that it skipped along quite happily to meet its executioner without the need for a blindfold.

People kill animals and we eat them. We even take their young away from them and we eat them as well. We even eat their unborn but there is no labeling on dairy products to say if any content came from eggs that were free range or battery reared chickens.

If anyone has any real issues about animals and how they arrive on the menu then best thing to just don't eat meat.

Seconded completely!

Funny isn't it; many would happily remain ignorant to animals living in horrible conditions as long as they are stunned before being having their throat slit- but if that animal lived a wonderful life before being butchered according to halal rules- no way. It is pure association imo.

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:


They did a year ago, again what is the big deal here, if it is humane rights, this is covered by those claiming stunning, so again I fail to see the fuss over a prayer?
I wonder have you ever sat down with a family when they bless food, did you have an issue Nems?

Whats humane rights?
Fuss over a prayer? THe Muslims seem to think its a fuss worth making

For Muslims it is a fuss. So let them do it. I don't particularly care for religious shit myself but I have gone and said Buddhist prayers in temples with my partners family; and will continue to do so because it means something to them. I don't particularly care if a prayer is said over a dead or dying chicken or lamb or not- but it that is required before I get my Madras so be it   

Eilzel wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:I would like to know whether my chicken was reared as free range so that before I devoured it I would know whether it was a happy chicken and it had a good life and that it skipped along quite happily to meet its executioner without the need for a blindfold.

People kill animals and we eat them. We even take their young away from them and we eat them as well. We even eat their unborn but there is no labeling on dairy products to say if any content came from eggs that were free range or battery reared chickens.

If anyone has any real issues about animals and how they arrive on the menu then best thing to just don't eat meat.

Seconded completely!

Funny isn't it; many would happily remain ignorant to animals living in horrible conditions as long as they are stunned before being having their throat slit- but if that animal lived a wonderful life before being butchered according to halal rules- no way. It is pure association imo.

And that is the whole point of halal isn't, making sure it is respected in life and has the fastest death.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

Whats humane rights?
Fuss over a prayer? THe Muslims seem to think its a fuss worth making

For Muslims it is a fuss. So let them do it. I don't particularly care for religious shit myself but I have gone and said Buddhist prayers in temples with my partners family; and will continue to do so because it means something to them. I don't particularly care if a prayer is said over a dead or dying chicken or lamb or not- but it that is required before I get my Madras so be it   

And if the chief vet says halal is a no no thats good enough for me

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

For Muslims it is a fuss. So let them do it. I don't particularly care for religious shit myself but I have gone and said Buddhist prayers in temples with my partners family; and will continue to do so because it means something to them. I don't particularly care if a prayer is said over a dead or dying chicken or lamb or not- but it that is required before I get my Madras so be it   

And if the chief vet says halal is a no no thats good enough for me

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

And if the chief vet says halal is a no no thats good enough for me

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Actually, what the chief vet said was:

End religious slaughter of animals without stunning first, urges top vet http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/meat/10679907/End-religious-slaughter-of-animals-without-stunning-first-urges-top-vet.html

88% of halal IS prestunned. Kosher is not. So, there can only be one reason why people are going on about halal and not kosher.

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Actually, what the chief vet said was:

End religious slaughter of animals without stunning first, urges top vet http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/meat/10679907/End-religious-slaughter-of-animals-without-stunning-first-urges-top-vet.html

88% of halal IS prestunned.   Kosher is not.   So, there can only be one reason why people are going on about halal and not kosher.

Well if it's prestunned I definitely don't get the problem- though I'd have no qualms eitherway- from what I have seen and read cutting an animals throat cuts the oxygen to the brain so they wouldn't feel a thing.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

And if the chief vet says halal is a no no thats good enough for me

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Which experts?
As for holidays perhaps people just realise that when in anothers country they may do things dfferently and respect that, and if you think about it thats all that is required of Muslims in this country, accept the way we do things or accept a lift to the airport.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Which experts?
As for holidays perhaps people just realise that when in anothers country they may do things dfferently and respect that, and if you think about  it thats all that is required of Muslims in this country, accept the way we do things or accept a lift to the airport.

Is that why in Muslim countries they accommodate alcohol for western people even though it is against their religion?

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

And if other experts disagree?

As I said to David; I holiday (and so eat meat) in the Middle-East, India etc; I eat Indian takeaways; I, and any other people who do those things (most of the population) would be a total hypocrite to have a problem with halal meat.

Which experts?
As for holidays perhaps people just realise that when in anothers country they may do things dfferently and respect that, and if you think about  it thats all that is required of Muslims in this country, accept the way we do things or accept a lift to the airport.

So what you are suggesting there is you have no problem with eating halal slaughtered animals, even without stunning, since you'd willingly eat it in Egypt or Tunisia or Israel etc; but you object here purely on cultural grounds?