Pork is the latest front in Europe's culture wars

Pork is the latest front in Europe's culture wars
The far right is fixated on pork and is using it as an excuse to target yet another aspect of Muslim life



Following its significant gains in last month's local elections, the French Front National leader, Marine Le Pen, swiftly announced that school cafeterias would no longer serve non-pork substitution meals to children living in towns won by FN candidates. Targeting Muslims for another ritual round of public humiliation, while also excluding Jewish children, Le Pen declared: "There is no reason for religion to enter the public sphere."

While Le Pen framed this fixation on the dietary requirements of her fellow citizens as a defence of state secularism, the FN mayor of the south-western town of Arveyres, Benoit Gheysens, suggested the move was simply to cut costs and to prevent "staff being distressed" by excessive food waste. This mix of environmental concern and secular commitment illustrates just how eclectic the far right can be in its defence of order, and Le Pen's conversion to republican values is shaped by this strategic elasticity.

As recently as 2011, Le Pen was threatened with prosecution for describing Muslims praying in the streets as comparable to the Nazi occupation of France, rather than opting to oppose it as an assault on the neutrality of public space. Her subsequent cultivation of a rightwing defence of secularism is based on the realisation that the supposedly universal values of the republic can be appropriated as a productive front in the struggle for national identity.

The prime reason for this conversion, of course, is that it provides a fertile opportunity for consistently reproducing public controversies regarding the "Muslim problem" and its threat to national identity.

As Arun Kundnani says in his newbook, The Muslims are Coming, the social and political construction of racism in the post-9/11 period has relied in part on translating "cultural markers associated with Muslimness (forms of dress, rituals, languages) … into racial signifiers".

This constant manufacture of controversy is a ritual whereby yet another dimension of Muslim life can be stereotyped, held up for public scrutiny and marked out as a problem that requires resolute political intervention. Symbols can be endlessly generated, leaving every cultural marker to be labelled as yet more evidence of the excessive demands of eternal foreigners on an overly tolerant "host".

Much of this pig-whistle politics, which is becoming more prevalent across western Europe, is opportunistic. Heinz-Christian Strache of the Austrian Freedom party, for instance, who in 2012 posted an antisemitic caricature on his Facebook page, also circulated a picture of himself with a roast suckling pig and the caption "Isst du Schwein, darfst du rein" (If you eat pork you can come in).

The Danish People's party, fully invested in a culture war over Danish values, was an early adopter of animal welfare in order to campaign against halal meat and has long sought to politicise the provision of halal options in nurseries as the "forced adoption" of Muslim tradition.

When it was reported last summer that some Copenhagen kindergartens, in consultation with parents, had stopped serving pork products, the DPP complained of discrimination against Danish food culture. The intensity of the resulting debate – and of the charge that only the DPP spoke for the silent majority victimised by overly indulged minorities – prompted the Social Democrat prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, into the absurd public affirmation of the importance of meatballs to Danish culture and identity.

That a centre-left politician competitively declares her fidelity to a meat product is a predictable effect of the European politics of integration of the last decade. Integration, for all its suggestion of a weighty national project, is in practice a series of public demands: they must do this, they shouldn't do that. Integration politics responds to the social anxieties of the neoliberal era by producing symbolic problems that can be politically addressed through cost-free symbolic action.

Yet, they are never cost-free for those racialised as the problem. It is, for instance, in this context that a sinister genre of direct action has developed around symbolically and physically imposing pork products on Muslims. The French "anti-white racism" group Bloc Identitaire has occupied mosques and tried to organise a march to kick back against the "racist refusal" of Muslims to eat pork.

In what it later, predictably, described as a joke, the Flemish Vlaams Belang stormed a food festival at a school in Schoten and reportedly forced pork sausages into the mouths of some children. When some enterprising young people in Helsinki wanted to humiliate an Afghan asylum seeker on hunger strike for 30 days in front of the Finnish parliament, they made a video of themselves inviting him to warm his hands on a fire before cooking sausages on it.

Pork has become a racist meme, endlessly adapted through practices of harassment: mosques in Europe have had pig's heads nailed to their doors, pork-filled envelopes sent in the mail,slices of ham rubbed on door handles, bacon slices slipped in the shoes of worshippers as they prayed.

This is the political context in which Le Pen's pig-whistle politics seeks a register, for all its lofty appeals to the conceits of the republic. And when the pork has been exhausted, a new affront, or burning source of resentment, will be produced.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/15/le-pen-pig-whistle-politics

On top of all that, the treatment of pigs to produce pork in Denmark is a disgrace.  I love pork, but I always make sure I never buy Danish pork, would rather go hungry.

good , not sure how it is targeting Muslims though

You have obviously lost the ability to read VOD.

Sassy wrote:You have obviously lost the ability to read VOD.

I think Vod's comment was in relation to your comment rather than the article

I'm shocked to learn Muslims in France and elsewhere are being hounded like this. Cruel, stupid and senseless.

lovedust wrote:
I'm shocked to learn Muslims in France and elsewhere are being hounded like this. Cruel, stupid and senseless.

Evening Lovey, it's truly revolting. What angers me as well, is that they make so much fuss about halal meat, and yet the conditions and the way pigs are treated in Denmark is beyond cruel.

So they make a fuss about that and then do this kind of thing on top.   

Interesting Le Pen was comparing Muslims to Nazis as late as 2011. It looks like crocodile tears over "secularism" has been decided upon as a more "respectable" way of spreading hatred.

So, what are we wringing our hands over? The Muslims being hounded by pork and pork based products or the Danish pigs?

Nems wrote:So, what are we wringing our hands over? The Muslims being hounded by pork and pork based products or the Danish pigs?

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:So, what are we wringing our hands over? The Muslims being hounded by pork and pork based products or the Danish pigs?

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and  nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

Bullying is not acceptable LD, one of the reasons I am so incensed about what is happening in our schools is the bullying culture that the Muslims introduced and nurtured

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:So, what are we wringing our hands over? The Muslims being hounded by pork and pork based products or the Danish pigs?

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and  nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

beheading soldiers in the street in broad daylight  is far worse than nailing a frigging pig on a mosque door come on for goodness sake and who is force feeding Muslim children pork, if they don't want to eat it take a packed lunch i am sure that would be the first answer if my children ever moaned about certain foods in school .

Nems wrote:

lovedust wrote:

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and  nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

Bullying is not acceptable LD, one of the reasons I am so incensed about what is happening in our schools is the bullying culture that the Muslims introduced and nurtured

... Don't understand? What bullying culture?

Nems wrote:

lovedust wrote:

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and  nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

Bullying is not acceptable LD, one of the reasons I am so incensed about what is happening in our schools is the bullying culture that the Muslims introduced and nurtured

That says it all Nems, not some Muslims, or Salafists, but "the Muslims", hung drawn and quartered off the back off an investigation we are yet to see the outcome of and you cast them as one, that again is a poor guilt by association, accept in this case Guilt without hearing any evidence yet.

Again there is definitely some Salafists out to undermine the school system, but just because 25 schools are being looked into does not mean that are have been taken over by the Salafists, it makes sense to check many if one, of which only one so far has found to be in financial irregularities, but hey you have to give it to the media, they really have swung opinion around on Muslims in this country, which is more about racial views on immigration really about who comes here, but that is another story.

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:

Bullying is not acceptable LD, one of the reasons I am so incensed about what is happening in our schools is the bullying culture that the Muslims introduced and nurtured

... Don't understand? What bullying culture?

Did you miss this story?

http://news.sky.com/story/1243049/anti-terror-chief-to-probe-Muslim-school-plot

Just after half way is the bit about bullying of non Muslims

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

Bullying is not acceptable LD, one of the reasons I am so incensed about what is happening in our schools is the bullying culture that the Muslims introduced and nurtured

That says it all Nems, not some Muslims, or Salafists, but "the Muslims", hung drawn and quartered off the back off an investigation we are yet to see the outcome of and you cast them as one, that again is a poor guilt by association, accept in this case Guilt without hearing any evidence yet.

Again there is definitely some Salafists out to undermine the school system, but just because 25 schools are being looked into does not mean that are have been taken over by the Salafists, it makes sense to check many if one, of which only one so far has found to be in financial irregularities, but hey you have to give it to the media, they really have swung opinion around on Muslims in this country, which is more about racial views on immigration really about who comes here, but that is another story.

Well I did say the 'its only the minority' line would be trotted out.
Wait and see where this investigation goes.

If they want Muslim faith schools why not live in a Muslim country its not fecking rocket science.
Tell you what by the time some cop on its going to be way too late.

agree with you nems

Nems wrote:

lovedust wrote:

... Don't understand? What bullying culture?

Did you miss this story?

http://news.sky.com/story/1243049/anti-terror-chief-to-probe-Muslim-school-plot

Just after half way is the bit about bullying of non Muslims

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:


That says it all Nems, not some Muslims, or Salafists, but "the Muslims", hung drawn and quartered off the back off an investigation we are yet to see the outcome of and you cast them as one, that again is a poor guilt by association, accept in this case Guilt without hearing any evidence yet.

Again there is definitely some Salafists out to undermine the school system, but just because 25 schools are being looked into does not mean that are have been taken over by the Salafists, it makes sense to check many if one, of which only one so far has found to be in financial irregularities, but hey you have to give it to the media, they really have swung opinion around on Muslims in this country, which is more about racial views on immigration really about who comes here, but that is another story.

Well I did say the 'its only the minority' line would be trotted out.
Wait and see where this investigation goes.

If they want Muslim faith schools why not live in a Muslim country its not fecking rocket science.
Tell you what by the time some cop on its going to be way too late.

I don't believe in having any faith schools Nems, but you cannot have some without all other faiths wanting to do the same, hence why I would ban them all. I have seen how bad some can be in the US
Religion should be a subject taught in schools not be the driving force behind how a school is run, because as seen if some Salafists take control they can influence ultra conservatism religious views.
Again the more we pander to Saudi, the more influence they will have with their view of Islam, Wahhabism in this country and that is what we should not be allowing the mass funding from Saudi when they have such appalling human rights records.

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:

Did you miss this story?

http://news.sky.com/story/1243049/anti-terror-chief-to-probe-Muslim-school-plot

Just after half way is the bit about bullying of non Muslims  

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

Not to some it seems. Amazing how some people hid their racist light under a bushel previously  :aspukeas: 

Sassy wrote:

lovedust wrote:

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

Not to some it seems.   Amazing how some people hid their racist light under a bushel previously  :aspukeas: 

Sassy that was low and wrong and you are trying to start something unwarranted by your view, which is very unfounded.


She has every right to express concern over some elements within Islam, like as stated Salafists, you would say the same of Dominionism would you not?


Now lets get back to the debate, as I do not want to see this descend into personal views and in this case claims of racism are poor

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

Well I did say the 'its only the minority' line would be trotted out.
Wait and see where this investigation goes.

If they want Muslim faith schools why not live in a Muslim country its not fecking rocket science.
Tell you what by the time some cop on its going to be way too late.

I don't believe in having any faith schools Nems, but you cannot have some without all other faiths wanting to do the same, hence why I would ban them all. I have seen how bad some can be in the US
Religion should be a subject taught in schools not be the driving force behind how a school is run, because as seen if some Salafists take control they can influence ultra conservatism religious views.
Again the more we pander to Saudi, the more influence they will have with their view of Islam, Wahhabism in this country and that is what we should not be allowing the mass funding from Saudi when they have such appalling human rights records.

Unfortunately Didge the Saudi's have huge influence because of their money. It seems Governments, including our own, are happy to ignore the fact that they are the ones that are the main fundamentalists and they are the ones who produced the 9/11 bombers. I don't see drones being flown over Saudi and their civilians killed. Others pay the price for what they do.

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Not to some it seems.   Amazing how some people hid their racist light under a bushel previously  :aspukeas: 

Sassy that was low and wrong and you are trying to start something unwarranted by your view, which is very unfounded.


She has every right to express concern over some elements within Islam, like as stated Salafists, you would say the same of Dominionism would you not?


Now lets get back to the debate, as I do not want to see this descend into personal views and in this case claims of racism are poor

Sorry Didge but you are wrong, but happy to debate the subject.

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:



I don't believe in having any faith schools Nems, but you cannot have some without all other faiths wanting to do the same, hence why I would ban them all. I have seen how bad some can be in the US
Religion should be a subject taught in schools not be the driving force behind how a school is run, because as seen if some Salafists take control they can influence ultra conservatism religious views.
Again the more we pander to Saudi, the more influence they will have with their view of Islam, Wahhabism in this country and that is what we should not be allowing the mass funding from Saudi when they have such appalling human rights records.

Unfortunately Didge the Saudi's have huge influence because of their money.   It seems Governments, including our own, are happy to ignore the fact that they are the ones that are the main fundamentalists and they are the ones who produced the 9/11 bombers.   I don't see drones being flown over Saudi and their civilians killed.   Others pay the price for what they do.

I agree Sassy and it is down to money and investment, hence what I have been saying already, when now we have the economy on the road to recovery we should lessen the need of their help, cut off the source of funding from its head

Sassy wrote:

lovedust wrote:

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

Not to some it seems.   Amazing how some people hid their racist light under a bushel previously  :aspukeas: 

That's not fair sass. We have a right to be concerned if these things are happening in our schools etc.

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Unfortunately Didge the Saudi's have huge influence because of their money.   It seems Governments, including our own, are happy to ignore the fact that they are the ones that are the main fundamentalists and they are the ones who produced the 9/11 bombers.   I don't see drones being flown over Saudi and their civilians killed.   Others pay the price for what they do.

I agree Sassy and it is down to money and investment, hence what I have been saying already, when now we have the economy on the road to recovery we should lessen the need of their help, cut off the source of funding from its head

Will never happen because of the influence the Saudi's have in so many countries now. It's amazing what money and oil will get you, regardless of what you do.

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:

Did you miss this story?

http://news.sky.com/story/1243049/anti-terror-chief-to-probe-Muslim-school-plot

Just after half way is the bit about bullying of non Muslims  

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

I am with the VOD here what happened to Lee Rigby our soldier in one of our towns by a piece of shit led to fanaticism by other pieces of shit is inexcusable. What is inexcusable is all the Muslims that gloried in his death as they gloried at 9 11.
A non halal meal or your head hacked off?

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Not to some it seems.   Amazing how some people hid their racist light under a bushel previously  :aspukeas: 

That's not fair sass. We have a right to be concerned if these things are happening in our schools etc.

Why does she think you are a racist Edds?

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:



I agree Sassy and it is down to money and investment, hence what I have been saying already, when now we have the economy on the road to recovery we should lessen the need of their help, cut off the source of funding from its head

Will never happen because of the influence the Saudi's have in so many countries now.   It's amazing what money and oil will get you, regardless of what you do.

I disagree as I feel the more America is now producing oil to the point it will be the second biggest exporter behind Iraq, will mean we can turn to cheaper options, as they are now sitting on some of the biggest reserves, though we should in the future move away totally from this resource.

Anyway Saudi will implode one day in the future, their hold is going to come into conflict with religious leaders which will no doubt lead to civil war or even war with Iran, who both hate each other and if that happens, they will be and end to any relations with time for some time

Well, we will have to disagree on that one, because the Saudis have infiltrated just about everything and I can't see that changing.

Nems wrote:

lovedust wrote:

Uh-huh... If that really is going on in schools, of course it's wrong, but I note the allegations are unsubstantiated at present.

Surely the bullying referred to in the OP remains inexcusable either way.

I am with the VOD here what happened to Lee Rigby our soldier in one of our towns by a piece of shit led to fanaticism by other pieces of shit is inexcusable. What is inexcusable is all the Muslims that gloried in his death as they gloried at 9 11.
A non halal meal or your head hacked off?

Sorry Nems, that is over the top scaremongering bull the last sentence and I saw many far more many Muslims come out in anger also against the murder vocally, I also saw British people write sickening cheers for the elderly Muslim that was murdered by a terrorist, which never even saw the same light of attention, even though he was a British citizen two.

Two men murdered by terrorists, yet one gets a passing mention, says it all really and even worse how people ignored how others glorified his death, those that do on both sides are low life scum, but are not the majority of people

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

I am with the VOD here what happened to Lee Rigby our soldier in one of our towns by a piece of shit led to fanaticism by other pieces of shit is inexcusable. What is inexcusable is all the Muslims that gloried in his death as they gloried at 9 11.
A non halal meal or your head hacked off?

Sorry Nems, that is over the top scaremongering bull the last sentence and I saw many far more many Muslims come out in anger also against the murder vocally, I also saw British people write sickening cheers for the elderly Muslim that was murdered by a terrorist, which never even saw the same light of attention, even though he was a British citizen two.

Two men murdered by terrorists, yet one gets a passing mention, says it all really and even worse how people ignored how others glorified his death, those that do on both sides are low life scum, but are not the majority of people

Para one Where was that? And where were the Muslims out in anger ? I saw a couple of very carefully worded sound bites.

Nems wrote:

eddie wrote:

That's not fair sass. We have a right to be concerned if these things are happening in our schools etc.

Why does she think you are a racist Edds?

She didn't say it about me, it was said about you.

And actually, without wishing to start a war, I'd like to ask you sass; do you think I'm racist then, if I'm concerned about schools and what's happening within them?
I'm concerned about my children's future, is that wrong? Is it racist?

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:



Sorry Nems, that is over the top scaremongering bull the last sentence and I saw many far more many Muslims come out in anger also against the murder vocally, I also saw British people write sickening cheers for the elderly Muslim that was murdered by a terrorist, which never even saw the same light of attention, even though he was a British citizen two.

Two men murdered by terrorists, yet one gets a passing mention, says it all really and even worse how people ignored how others glorified his death, those that do on both sides are low life scum, but are not the majority of people

Para one  Where was that? And where were the Muslims out in anger ? I saw a couple of very carefully worded sound bites.

Which shows you that it is not in the interest by some of the media to print the many condemnations by many Muslims, again another factor that plays into the agenda used against Muslims in this country and the west.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-Muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-britain-ukraine-murder-idUSBRE99O0OE20131025

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

Para one  Where was that? And where were the Muslims out in anger ? I saw a couple of very carefully worded sound bites.

Which shows you that it is not in the interest by some of the media to print the many condemnations by many Muslims, again another factor that plays into the agenda used against Muslims in this country and the west.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-Muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-britain-ukraine-murder-idUSBRE99O0OE20131025

A few handpicked Muslims sitting with a pair of tory fwits. I thought you meant Muslims had taken to the streets.
They should have stood outside a few mosques and asked for opinions as they came out.

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:

Why does she think you are a racist Edds?

She didn't say it about me, it was said about you.

And actually, without wishing to start a war, I'd like to ask you sass; do you think I'm racist then, if I'm concerned about schools and what's happening within them?
I'm concerned about my children's future, is that wrong? Is it racist?

.

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:



Which shows you that it is not in the interest by some of the media to print the many condemnations by many Muslims, again another factor that plays into the agenda used against Muslims in this country and the west.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/23/woolwich-attack-Muslim-groups-condemn-lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-britain-ukraine-murder-idUSBRE99O0OE20131025

A few handpicked Muslims sitting with a pair of tory fwits. I thought you meant Muslims had taken to the streets.
They should have stood outside a few mosques and asked for opinions as they came out.

WTF, so now they have to march as well as having to condemn a murder?
Really, since when to satisfy a need they should never have to do in the first place Nems, because some extremists commit acts, that other Muslims have to do anything at all because their only association is they claim to be of the same faith?


That is what is wrong is people expect Muslims to come out marching, why? Many are sickened also by people claiming to do things in the name of their faith and no matter what they say or even if they did march, people sadly and stupidly club them all together as one, because of Islam.


Did you see the Irish marching through the streets of London through the IRA campaign?
Did you ask where was their voice?


On both counts I doubt you did, sorry, but lets have some truths here, because it seems to only be the case with Muslims

While what happened to Lee Rigby was despicably awful, we need to be careful not to develop the mindset of some others who carry hate for all Muslims...

Hate only breeds hate and further death and destruction.

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:

Why does she think you are a racist Edds?

She didn't say it about me, it was said about you.

And actually, without wishing to start a war, I'd like to ask you sass; do you think I'm racist then, if I'm concerned about schools and what's happening within them?
I'm concerned about my children's future, is that wrong? Is it racist?

Of course I don't. Nem's 'concerns' are not just about the schools, which I have already said need investigating and clearing up one way or the other. However, the Saudi's are the ones behind anything like that normally, and nobody will do anything about them, because this Government kowtows to them. Oil, money and influence.

I'm talking about a mixture of posts on different threads and what people have already remarked to me about, starting back on Speak.

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:


A few handpicked Muslims sitting with a pair of tory fwits. I thought you meant Muslims had taken to the streets.
They should have stood outside a few mosques and asked for opinions as they came out.

WTF, so now they have to march as well as having to condemn a murder?
Really, since when to satisfy a need they should never have to do in the first place Nems, because some extremists commit acts, that other Muslims have to do anything at all because their only association is they claim to be of the same faith?


That is what is wrong is people expect Muslims to come out marching, why? Many are sickened also by people claiming to do things in the name of their faith and no matter what they say or even if they did march, people sadly and stupidly club them all together as one, because of Islam.


Did you see the Irish marching through the streets of London through the IRA campaign?
Did you ask where was their voice?


On both counts I doubt you did, sorry, but lets have some truths here, because it seems to only be the case with Muslims

I find myself agreeing with you again Didge.

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

She didn't say it about me, it was said about you.

And actually, without wishing to start a war, I'd like to ask you sass; do you think I'm racist then, if I'm concerned about schools and what's happening within them?
I'm concerned about my children's future, is that wrong? Is it racist?

Of course I don't.   Nem's 'concerns' are not just about the schools, which I have already said need investigating and clearing up one way or the other.   However, the Saudi's are the ones behind anything like that normally, and nobody will do anything about them, because this Government kowtows to them.   Oil, money and influence.

I'm talking about a mixture of posts on different threads and what people have already remarked to me about, starting back on Speak.

Fair enough. I don't know what's been said to you about nems but she's never struck me as racist.

I have my concerns about schools and like you, will await the relevant enquiries as to what the outcomes are about.

I can't abide racism so had to clear that up x

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:


WTF, so now they have to march as well as having to condemn a murder?
Really, since when to satisfy a need they should never have to do in the first place Nems, because some extremists commit acts, that other Muslims have to do anything at all because their only association is they claim to be of the same faith?


That is what is wrong is people expect Muslims to come out marching, why? Many are sickened also by people claiming to do things in the name of their faith and no matter what they say or even if they did march, people sadly and stupidly club them all together as one, because of Islam.


Did you see the Irish marching through the streets of London through the IRA campaign?
Did you ask where was their voice?


On both counts I doubt you did, sorry, but lets have some truths here, because it seems to only be the case with Muslims

I find myself agreeing with you again Didge.  

Glad we can agree on this, but not on your view to who is racist here, sorry but it is diverging the thread Sassy and to me she is not racist and to me that is the end of the matter as it will just drag another thread down in to another war of words between posters.

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Of course I don't.   Nem's 'concerns' are not just about the schools, which I have already said need investigating and clearing up one way or the other.   However, the Saudi's are the ones behind anything like that normally, and nobody will do anything about them, because this Government kowtows to them.   Oil, money and influence.

I'm talking about a mixture of posts on different threads and what people have already remarked to me about, starting back on Speak.

Fair enough. I don't know what's been said to you about nems but she's never struck me as racist.

I have my concerns about schools and like you, will await the relevant enquiries as to what the outcomes are about.

I can't abide racism so had to clear that up x

No, she never did me either, or I would not have got involved. However, it seems to be developing faster and faster.

Why does every thread disintegrate into people being called a racist just lately? Are people not allowed to voice an opinion (because that's what it is an OPINION based on what we think, not necessarily based on facts)anymore for fear of being labelled? Last time I looked we still lived in a free country, if people are worried about the education their children are receiving or what the future holds in Britain for them then don't they have a right to say so without being branded racist? I for one am sick of that word being bandied around on here.

And for the record, I have known Nems a long time and I can tell you now, she is NOT racist.

As I said, not just based on one thread and not just on the education issue.

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

She didn't say it about me, it was said about you.

And actually, without wishing to start a war, I'd like to ask you sass; do you think I'm racist then, if I'm concerned about schools and what's happening within them?
I'm concerned about my children's future, is that wrong? Is it racist?

Of course I don't.   Nem's 'concerns' are not just about the schools, which I have already said need investigating and clearing up one way or the other.   However, the Saudi's are the ones behind anything like that normally, and nobody will do anything about them, because this Government kowtows to them.   Oil, money and influence.

I'm talking about a mixture of posts on different threads and what people have already remarked to me about, starting back on Speak.

Have you ever thought its because I get to voice my own opinion now? Instead of you doing my talking for me!


I'm talking about a mixture of posts on different threads and what people have already remarked to me about, starting back on Speak

Go on then mouth almighty who has remarked about what threads and saying what. I know you forget nothing so please share.

harvesmom wrote:Why does every thread disintegrate into people being called a racist just lately? Are people not allowed to voice an opinion (because that's what it is an OPINION based on what we think, not necessarily based on facts)anymore for fear of being labelled? Last time I looked we still lived in a free country, if people are worried about the education their children are receiving or what the future holds in Britain for them then don't they have a right to say so without being branded racist? I for one am sick of that word being bandied around on here.

And for the record, I have known Nems a long time and I can tell you now, she is NOT racist.

Thanks Harves, I think perhaps it is the fact that those of us who actually have lives away from the internet, who interact with real people in real time situations may see things a little differently. Oh and Sassy is always right about everything and knows everything about everything.

VOD(original) wrote:

lovedust wrote:

Nems wrote:So, what are we wringing our hands over? The Muslims being hounded by pork and pork based products or the Danish pigs?

In my case, the former. I view forcing pork into the mouths of Muslim children and  nailing pigs' heads to Mosque doors as bullying.

beheading soldiers in the street in broad daylight  is far worse than nailing a frigging pig on a mosque door come on for goodness sake and who is force feeding Muslim children pork, if they don't want to eat it take a packed lunch i am sure that would be the first answer if my children ever moaned about certain foods in school .

no its not.
Soldiers are legit targets... beheaded, shot, blow up, stabbed irrelevant.
targeting of Civilian religions structures is no a legit military strategy.

AND Al-Qaeda is at war with who ever is sending soldiers to the middle east, the west is not supposed to be at war with ALL Muslims and westerners that act like we are, are every bit the terrorist as (and actually validate and perpetuating the problem) Al-Qaeda .

Even George W. Bush said we're not at war with Islam.

Even George W. Bush.

I think that ought to give everyone pause ...

veya nobody is force feeding Muslim children to eat pork end of .

veya have there been any terror attacks on Australia ?