Is the Scottish referendum illegal?

First topic message reminder :

I was listening to the news about Ukraine.  They were saying that Ukraine believes the upcoming referendum in the Crimea on secession is illegal, as the Ukraine constitution states that any referendum on secession must take place between all civilians in Ukrain, not just the part that wants to leave.

So I was wondering, that's pretty much the same situation as our Scottish referendum.  I've always thought that the rest of the UK should have a say in this, not just the Scots, as it affects us all.  I wonder what the British constitution says about this.

Joy Division wrote:

Tess. wrote:
And how do they get that oil out?  Do they own Shell?  Nope.  Shell is an Anglo-Dutch company.  Plus, North Sea oil and gas isn't all from Scotland:

With the oil in Scottish oil fields, Scotland will more than afford it's own resources for getting to the oil and it's own expertise, shell will be at the mercy of Scotland if they wish to extract oil from Scottish oil fields, Scotland will call the shots in its own oil fields.

And with scaremongering from the like of shell,it makes me want rid of them all the more. As well as the blackmailing from the three main parties over currency, Ive now swayed toward voting for yes to an independent a Scotland.

We will be a very rich country , free from nonsensical claims that we are subsidised from Westminster...that will do for me, if Scots  do vote yes...

So do you think Scotland should keep all the oil revenue, yet not pay back it's share of the National debt? Because if not and you balance it all out, they won't be the wealthy country you imagine. Also, if these organisations pull out it'll cause thousands of job losses. There really are a lot of things to think about.

But you're right in one respect, the threats have made more Scots want to vote to leave than before, so the Tories really have shot themselves in the foot - or have they? Is it intentional, because with no Scottish voters things won't look good for Labour ever getting re-elected.

JD, Iron, give up.

The Scottish people don't have the guts to go on their own.

" The Scottish independence debate is in full swing, but one question that has yet to be properly answered is: what happens to the 59 MPs representing Scottish seats at Westminster if September's referendum results in a "yes" vote?

In the SNP White Paper entitled Scotland's Future, the answer was clear: the 2015 general election would take place as normal, but Scotland's candidates would be competing for curtailed, 10-month terms.

"Sovereignty will be fully exercised by the people of Scotland from the point Scotland becomes independent on 24 March 2016," it explained.

"Until that point, the people of Scotland must be represented politically at the UK level. Scotland will therefore elect MPs to Westminster to represent Scotland up until the date of independence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26052514

A scenario that has yet to discussed in the mainstream news........................

Frightening thought that Miili could win have a majority for only ten months.

Balamory will be banned!

gerber wrote:" The Scottish independence debate is in full swing, but one question that has yet to be properly answered is: what happens to the 59 MPs representing Scottish seats at Westminster if September's referendum results in a "yes" vote?

In the SNP White Paper entitled Scotland's Future, the answer was clear: the 2015 general election would take place as normal, but Scotland's candidates would be competing for curtailed, 10-month terms.

"Sovereignty will be fully exercised by the people of Scotland from the point Scotland becomes independent on 24 March 2016," it explained.

"Until that point, the people of Scotland must be represented politically at the UK level. Scotland will therefore elect MPs to Westminster to represent Scotland up until the date of independence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26052514

A scenario that has yet to discussed in the mainstream news........................

Frightening thought that Miili could win have a majority for only ten months.  

It isn't frightening - it won't happen.

BigAndy9 wrote:


It isn't frightening - it won't happen.

PC Plum has already quit and Miss Hoolie has gone on the game.

BigAndy9 wrote:

gerber wrote:" The Scottish independence debate is in full swing, but one question that has yet to be properly answered is: what happens to the 59 MPs representing Scottish seats at Westminster if September's referendum results in a "yes" vote?

In the SNP White Paper entitled Scotland's Future, the answer was clear: the 2015 general election would take place as normal, but Scotland's candidates would be competing for curtailed, 10-month terms.

"Sovereignty will be fully exercised by the people of Scotland from the point Scotland becomes independent on 24 March 2016," it explained.

"Until that point, the people of Scotland must be represented politically at the UK level. Scotland will therefore elect MPs to Westminster to represent Scotland up until the date of independence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26052514

A scenario that has yet to discussed in the mainstream news........................

Frightening thought that Miili could win have a majority for only ten months.  

It isn't frightening - it won't happen.

A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you but the Yes vote is gaining points day by day, and it seems the more Westminster and co threaten along with the EU the anger is rising

gerber wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


It isn't frightening - it won't happen.

A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you but the Yes vote is gaining points day by day, and it seems the more Westminster and co threaten along with the EU the anger is rising

Where have you got that information from?

Also, nobody has threatened anybody or anything, unless you have information?

BigAndy9 wrote:

gerber wrote:

A few weeks ago I would have agreed with you but the Yes vote is gaining points day by day, and it seems the more Westminster and co threaten along with the EU the anger is rising

Where have you got that information from?

Also, nobody has threatened anybody or anything, unless you have information?

" The latest polls suggest that, with seven months to go before the referendum, those who want Scotland to stay in the United Kingdom are losing their grip.  

The majority of Scots are still saying they will vote No to independence in September, but that majority is slipping all the time.

The very latest poll, conducted by Survation, shows the gap between the Yes and No campaigns has reduced to just nine points. The No - or pro-union - campaign has fallen to 47 per cent, while the Yes – or pro–independence – campaign is up to 38 per cent.

What is significant is that the poll was conducted after Chancellor George Osborne warned – to the fury of the Scots Nationalists - that Scotland would not be able to keep the pound if it votes to go independent, and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso raised equally awkward questions about whether an independent Scotland would be able to stay in the EU.

The new poll suggests that what might have been perceived – south of the border - as serious evidence that an independent Scotland is unrealistic, has simply fired up those Scots tempted but unsure about independence.



Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/55716/scottish-independence-pros-cons-key-questions-answered#ixzz2vIDlxhrf

Another recent poll put the gap between Yes and No even tighter – at only seven points. The ICM poll conducted in late January showed 44 per cent saying they would vote No, down from 49 per cent in September. Those saying they would vote Yes were up from 32 to 37 per cent. (The don't knows remained stable at 19 per cent.)

This represented a five per cent swing towards the Yes vote - which was described as "very significant" by Yes Scotland, the pro-independence campaigners, because it now needs only a further three per cent swing, with seven months to achieve it, for the Yes vote to overtake the No vote.



Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/55716/scottish-independence-pros-cons-key-questions-answered#ixzz2vIEDRCMW

I thought you said Westminster and co and the EU were making threats.

Never mind.

BigAndy9 wrote:I thought you said Westminster and co and the EU were making threats.

Never mind.

Apolgies.............

My interpretation of not having the pound

Presenting uncomfortable facts of how things will be is not making threats - it is providing information.

sphinx wrote:Presenting uncomfortable facts of how things will be is not making threats - it is providing information.

Quite right, however Sassy has decided how things will pan out and the government has been in touch with her for advice.   

BigAndy9 wrote:JD, Iron, give up.

The Scottish people don't have the guts to go on their own.

Andy, you really are an example of the best campaign tool the Nationalist could wish for.

If the people of Scotland decide to stay, we'll stay, and if they decide to leave we'll leave and you will be notified of our decision in due course.

This country certainly appreciated Scottish guts in 1940 so don't underestimate what the people of Scotland are capable of doing and also don't assume that I am pro-independence.

sphinx wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

sphinx wrote:

What about if those in Scotland vote against independence when those in the rest of the UK would vote for Scottish Independence?  Surely you dont believe a country should be stuck with anouther country if they desire to be rid of it?

Incidentally I am not saying that is the case - I am simply saying that such a scenario should be of equal weight.

Same applies with the EU referendum then?

IF (and as you can see it is a really really big if)

It was a genuine referendum with a legal obligation to act on the result then yes it would.

I will remind you however that Cameron has already intimated that a result would not be legally binding and furthermore his promise is for a referendum on a renegotiated changed relationship with the EU and he is very very strenuously avoiding any sort of negotiation that would result in a changed relationship which means if (big but not as big as the first one) he is still in power in 2017 he will be able to side step holding one on the grounds that no change has been negotiated.

I will further suggest people look at the history of referendums within the EU - where a result that Brussels does not like or want simply results in a repeated referendum so they do get the result they want or going ahead and doing whatever it is anyway just calling it a different name.

Are you seriously suggesting that Cameron may not have a referendum on the EU? Is this the latest line from UKIP?

On the other pint the situation with the Scottish referendum would indeed be the same as an EU referendum? - wouldn't want o be stuck with them.

Why don't they realise the more they carry on with these scare tactics, the more Scotland will end up with a yes vote. Not very clever are they?

Sassy wrote:Why don't they realise the more they carry on with these scare tactics, the more Scotland will end up with a yes vote.   Not very clever are they?

Whatever the result is there is no doubt that a referendum is better than using guns.

Irn Bru wrote:

Sassy wrote:Why don't they realise the more they carry on with these scare tactics, the more Scotland will end up with a yes vote.   Not very clever are they?

Whatever the result is there is no doubt that a referendum is better than using guns.

Guys and gals......

i cannot agree more but I seem to in the minority on here................ OK so I am a Conservative who dislikes and has no time for DC

But to me it is all out there and we the " Must keep it all together band " are actually doing the opposite. The purpose of which due to the horrendous fall out in Westminster after the next election where a Scottish MP will only be in seat until the ratification of the referendum, Aug 2016 leaving liebour with a majority of non and a negative Government. Democracy at this point stinks.