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Maddog
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Post by eddie Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:27 am

We all have our own theories or beliefs.

Here’s a new, news article.

It may help, it may not...but one thing is for sure, nobody is wiser, after twenty years.
And that, says something about the many stories that surround 9/11.....
Here’s another take.  How many “takes” do we need????


It's time we expose the truth': 9/11 families see a turning point in fight to reveal alleged Saudi role


WASHINGTON – Twenty years after he narrowly escaped the World Trade Center's South Tower, Timothy Frolich is going back to ground zero for the first time to mark the anniversary of the deadliest attack on U.S. soil.

Frolich's visit to the site isn't just about commemorating the day that transformed his life and the lives many other Americans. He hopes it will also be about what's next: the likely release of new details about Saudi Arabia's alleged role in the attacks – information the U.S. government has fought for years to keep secret.

Under pressure from 9/11 victims and their families, President Joe Biden on Sept. 3 directed the Justice Department and other federal agencies to declassify some documents from the FBI's investigation into the terrorist attacks.

Terry Strada, whose husband was killed in the North Tower on Sept. 11, hailed Biden's order as a potential "turning point" in the victims' efforts to shed light on whether and how Saudi government officials may have supported the hijackers.  


The 9/11 families certainly should know the truth about who is responsible for the murder of our loved ones, but the American people deserve to know ... just as much as we do," said Strada, who is among hundreds of 9/11 families suing the Saudi government for compensation.

"We've had roadblocks for the last 20 years whenever the kingdom was involved. It’s time we expose the truth," she said.

The Saudi government has long denied any involvement in the attacks and recently said it welcomes Biden's declassification decision.

"Any allegation that Saudi Arabia is complicit in the September 11 attacks is categorically false," the embassy said in a Sept. 8 statement. "Saudi Arabia knows all too well the evil that al-Qaeda through its ideology and actions represents ... Alongside the U.S., the kingdom has spared no effort in tackling the men, money, and mindset of terrorism and extremism in all its forms."

The embassy said it hopes the "full declassification of any documents" related to the attacks will "end the baseless allegations against the kingdom once and for all."

Former Sept. 11 investigators say it's not clear yet how much pivotal new information will be released under Biden's order, given that U.S. intelligence officials can still seek to shield key details based on privacy laws or national security concerns.



https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/09/10/20-years-after-9-11-attacks-what-we-still-dont-know-saudi-role/5716623001/


Another year.
Another story.
Another country.
Another smoke and mirrors

Will we ever know the truth?

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Post by Original Quill Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:51 pm

What is the theory about how Saudi Arabia - as a nation, not as merely a collection of nationals - are involved?

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Post by Maddog Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:15 pm

This isn't news. Folks have been pretty sure (some folks know because they have read those reports) that members of the Saudi Royal family knew about or funded those terrorists.

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Post by Maddog Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:23 pm

In fact, there is a lawsuit going on right now against Saudi Arabia.


It's been 20 years. Release the entire report. The people that lost loved ones that day should see all the findings.

And millions of others won't believe the findings anyway.

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Post by Maddog Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:10 pm

Todd: Hello… Operator…listen to me…I can’t speak very loud. – This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco.. We have a situation here….Our plane has been hijacked…..can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand… Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.

Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes…. they don’t have guns….they have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean…like steak knives?

Todd: No, these are razor knives…like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No…..I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board. He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet.
He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport… It was very broken English, and… I’m telling you…it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd….my name is Lisa…Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit. A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up. front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, ..they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.

Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane……….oh Jesus.. Help!

Lisa: Todd….are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello…..We’re going down….I think we’re going to crash……Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off….we’re ok. I think we may be turning around…..That’s it – we changed directions. Do you hear me….we’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd…. What’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is… really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center……Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd…..I have to tell you the truth…..it’s very bad. The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God —help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack….and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God…….Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try….if I can….Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.

Todd: Our home number is 201 353-1073…….You have the same name as my wife…Lisa….We’ve been married for 10 years. She’s pregnant with our 3rd child. Tell her that I love her…….(choking up)..I’ll always love her..(clearing throat) We have two boys.. David, he’s 3 and Andrew, he’s 1…..Tell them……(choking) tell them that their daddy loves them and that he is so proud of them. (clearing throat again) Our baby is due January 12th…..I saw an ultra sound…..it was great….we still don’t know if it’s a girl or a boy………Lisa?

Lisa: (barely able to speak) I’ll tell them, I promise Todd.

Todd: I’m going back to the group—if I can get back I will…

Lisa: Todd, leave this line open…are you still there?……

Lisa: (dials the phone..) Hello, FBI, my name is Lisa Jefferson, I’m a telephone supervisor for GTE. I need to report a terrorist hijacking of a United Airlines Flight 93….Yes I’ll hold.

Goodwin: Hello, this is Agent Goodwin.. I understand you have a hijacking situation?

Lisa: Yes sir, I’ve been talking with a passenger, a Todd Beamer, on Flight 93 who managed to get to an air phone unnoticed.

Goodwin: Where did this flight originate, and what was its destination?

Lisa: The flight left Newark New Jersey at 8 A.M. departing for San Francisco. The hijackers took over the plane shortly after takeoff, and several minutes later the plane changed course – it is now flying east.

Goodwin: Ms. Jefferson…I need to talk to someone aboard that plane. Can you get me thru to the planes phone?

Lisa: I still have that line open sir, I can patch you through on a conference call…hold a mo…..

Todd: Hello Lisa, Lisa are you there?

Lisa: Yes, I’m here. Todd, I made a call to the FBI, Agent Goodwin is on the line and will be talking to you as well.

Todd: The others all know that this isn’t your normal hijacking. Jeremy called his wife again on his cell phone. She told him more about the World Trade Center and all.

Goodwin: Hello Todd. This is Agent Goodwin with the FBI. We have been monitoring your flight. Your plane is on a course for Washington, DC. These terrorists sent two planes into the World Trade Center and one plane into the Pentagon. Our best guess is that they plan to fly your plane into either the White House or the United States Capital Building.

Todd: I understand…hold on……I’ll…….I’ll be back..

Lisa: Mr. Goodwin, how much time do they have before they get to Washington?

Goodwin: Not long ma’am. They changed course over Cleveland; they’re approaching Pittsburgh now. Washington may be twenty minutes away.

Todd: (breathing a little heavier) The plane seems to be changing directions just a little. It’s getting pretty rough up here. The plane is flying real erratic….We’re not going to make it out of here. Listen to me….I want you to hear this….I have talked with the others….we have decided we would not be pawns in these hijackers suicidal plot.

Lisa: Todd, what are you going to do?

Todd: We’ve hatched a plan. Four of us are going to rush the hijacker with the bomb. After we take him out, we’ll break into the cockpit. A stewardess is getting some boiling water to throw on the hijackers at the controls. We’ll get them….and we’ll take them out. Lisa, …..will you do one last thing for me?

Lisa: Yes…What is it?

Todd: Would you pray with me?

They pray: Our father which art in Heaven

Hallowed be thy name,

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses

As we forgive our trespassers,

And lead us not into temptation

But deliver us from evil

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory

Forever…..Amen

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want…

He makes me to lie down in green pastures

He leads me beside the still waters

He restores my soul

He leads me in paths of righteousness

for His name’s sake

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I will fear no evil, for thou art with me…..

Todd: (softer) God help me…Jesus help me….(clears throat and louder)

Are you guys ready?……..

Let’s Roll……………………

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

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The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by eddie Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:49 pm

Just awful.

Rest in peace all those who were murdered that day.

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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:55 pm

Well, it's at least refreshing to see the United States government not turning a blind eye to the fact that powerful Saudi citizens and, perhaps, members of the government, support and fund terrorist attacks. About time they stopped getting a free pass from America.

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Post by Syl Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:00 am

/\

Unbelievably brave. Those people on United Flight 93 sacrificed their lives to save an even bigger disaster happening.

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Post by Didgee Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:20 am

Maddog wrote:Todd: Hello… Operator…listen to me…I can’t speak very loud. – This is an emergency. I’m a passenger on a United flight to San Francisco..  We have a situation here….Our plane has been hijacked…..can you understand me?

Lisa: (exhaling a deep breath to herself) I understand… Can the hijackers see you talking on the phone?

Todd: No

Lisa: Can you tell me how many hijackers are on the plane?

Todd: There are three that we know of.

Lisa: Can you see any weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

Todd: Yes…. they don’t have guns….they have knives – they took over the plane with knives.

Lisa: Do you mean…like steak knives?

Todd: No, these are razor knives…like box cutters.

Lisa: Can you tell what country these people are from?

Todd: No…..I don’t know. They sound like they’re from the mid-east.

Lisa: Have they said what they want?

Todd: Someone announced from the cockpit that there was a bomb on board.  He said he was the captain and to stay in our seats and stay quiet.
He said that they were meeting these men’s demands and returning to the airport… It was very broken English, and… I’m telling you…it sounded fake!

Lisa: Ok sir, please give me your name.

Todd: My name is Todd Beamer.

Lisa: Ok Todd….my name is Lisa…Do you know your flight number? If you can’t remember, it’s on your ticket.

Todd: It’s United Flight 93.

Lisa: Now Todd, can you try to tell me exactly what happened?

Todd: Two of the hijackers were sitting in first class near the cockpit.  A third one was sitting near the back of the coach section. The two up. front got into the cockpit somehow; there was shouting. The third hijacker said he had a bomb. It looks like a bomb. He’s got it tied to his waist with a red belt of some kind.

Lisa: So is the door to the cockpit open?

Todd: No, the hijackers shut it behind them.

Lisa: Has anyone been injured?

Todd: Yes, ..they…they killed one passenger sitting in first class. There’s been lots of shouting. We don’t know if the pilots are dead or alive. A flight attendant told me that the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.

Lisa: Where is the 3rd hijacker now Todd?

Todd: He’s near the back of the plane. They forced most of the passengers into first class. There are fourteen of us here in the back. Five are flight attendants. He hasn’t noticed that I slipped into this pantry to get the phone. The guy with the bomb ordered us to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane……….oh Jesus.. Help!

Lisa: Todd….are you ok? Tell me what’s happening!

Todd: Hello…..We’re going down….I think we’re going to crash……Wait – wait a minute. No, we’re leveling off….we’re ok. I think we may be turning around…..That’s it – we changed directions.  Do you hear me….we’re flying east again.

Lisa: Ok Todd…. What’s going on with the other passengers?

Todd: Everyone is… really scared. A few passengers with cell phones have made calls to relatives. A guy, Jeremy, was talking to his wife just before the hijacking started. She told him that hijackers had crashed two planes into the World Trade Center……Lisa is that true??

Lisa: Todd…..I have to tell you the truth…..it’s very bad.  The World Trade Center is gone. Both of the towers have been destroyed.

Todd: Oh God —help us!

Lisa: A third plane was taken over by terrorists. It crashed into the Pentagon in Washington DC. Our country is under attack….and I’m afraid that your plane may be part of their plan.

Todd: Oh dear God. Dear God…….Lisa, will you do something for me?

Lisa: I’ll try….if I can….Yes.

Todd: I want you to call my wife and my kids for me and tell them what’s happened. Promise me you’ll call..

Lisa: I promise – I’ll call.

Todd: Our home number is 201 353-1073…….You have the same name as my wife…Lisa….We’ve been married for 10 years. She’s pregnant with our 3rd child. Tell her that I love her…….(choking up)..I’ll always love her..(clearing throat) We have two boys.. David, he’s 3 and Andrew, he’s 1…..Tell them……(choking) tell them that their daddy loves them and that he is so proud of them. (clearing throat again) Our baby is due January 12th…..I saw an ultra sound…..it was great….we still don’t know if it’s a girl or a boy………Lisa?

Lisa: (barely able to speak) I’ll tell them, I promise Todd.

Todd: I’m going back to the group—if I can get back I will…

Lisa: Todd, leave this line open…are you still there?……

Lisa: (dials the phone..) Hello, FBI, my name is Lisa Jefferson, I’m a telephone supervisor for GTE. I need to report a terrorist hijacking of a United Airlines Flight 93….Yes I’ll hold.

Goodwin: Hello, this is Agent Goodwin.. I understand you have a hijacking situation?

Lisa: Yes sir, I’ve been talking with a passenger, a Todd Beamer, on Flight 93 who managed to get to an air phone unnoticed.

Goodwin: Where did this flight originate, and what was its destination?

Lisa: The flight left Newark New Jersey at 8 A.M. departing for San Francisco. The hijackers took over the plane shortly after takeoff, and several minutes later the plane changed course – it is now flying east.

Goodwin: Ms. Jefferson…I need to talk to someone aboard that plane. Can you get me thru to the planes phone?

Lisa: I still have that line open sir, I can patch you through on a conference call…hold a mo…..

Todd: Hello Lisa, Lisa are you there?

Lisa: Yes, I’m here. Todd, I made a call to the FBI, Agent Goodwin is on the line and will be talking to you as well.

Todd: The others all know that this isn’t your normal hijacking. Jeremy called his wife again on his cell phone. She told him more about the World Trade Center and all.

Goodwin: Hello Todd. This is Agent Goodwin with the FBI. We have been monitoring your flight. Your plane is on a course for Washington, DC. These terrorists sent two planes into the World Trade Center and one plane into the Pentagon. Our best guess is that they plan to fly your plane into either the White House or the United States Capital Building.

Todd: I understand…hold on……I’ll…….I’ll be back..

Lisa: Mr. Goodwin, how much time do they have before they get to Washington?

Goodwin: Not long ma’am. They changed course over Cleveland; they’re approaching Pittsburgh now. Washington may be twenty minutes away.

Todd: (breathing a little heavier) The plane seems to be changing directions just a little. It’s getting pretty rough up here. The plane is flying real erratic….We’re not going to make it out of here. Listen to me….I want you to hear this….I have talked with the others….we have decided we would not be pawns in these hijackers suicidal plot.

Lisa: Todd, what are you going to do?

Todd: We’ve hatched a plan. Four of us are going to rush the hijacker with the bomb. After we take him out, we’ll break into the cockpit. A stewardess is getting some boiling water to throw on the hijackers at the controls. We’ll get them….and we’ll take them out. Lisa, …..will you do one last thing for me?

Lisa: Yes…What is it?

Todd: Would you pray with me?

They pray: Our father which art in Heaven

Hallowed be thy name,

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

And forgive us our trespasses

As we forgive our trespassers,

And lead us not into temptation

But deliver us from evil

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory

Forever…..Amen

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want…

He makes me to lie down in green pastures

He leads me beside the still waters

He restores my soul

He leads me in paths of righteousness

for His name’s sake

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I will fear no evil, for thou art with me…..

Todd: (softer) God help me…Jesus help me….(clears throat and louder)

Are you guys ready?……..

Let’s Roll……………………

No words can describe what they went through and how this has been immortalised


They were all brave souls and its so sad what happened that day

Didgee

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Post by Syl Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:21 am

"Are you guys ready?... lets roll" Sad

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Post by Original Quill Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:38 pm

And the Saudi Arabian government?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:And the Saudi Arabian government?

Maybe Joe will release all of the documents. Of course if they don't implicate the Saudi government, many folks will say it's a cover up.

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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:And the Saudi Arabian government?

Maybe Joe will release all of the documents.  Of course if they don't implicate the Saudi government, many folks will say it's a cover up.  

I've heard that rumor, and I'd like to see any evidence for it. I'm no fan of the Saudi government. But with so much asymmetrical warfare - what with al-Qaeda and ISIS, and spontaneous developments of movements - the Saudi government is a distinct, separate entity, demanding evidence of direct involvement.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

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Post by Maddog Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Maybe Joe will release all of the documents.  Of course if they don't implicate the Saudi government, many folks will say it's a cover up.  

I've heard that rumor, and I'd like to see any evidence for it.  I'm no fan of the Saudi government.  But with so much asymmetrical warfare - what with al-Qaeda and ISIS, and spontaneous developments of movements - the Saudi government is a distinct, separate entity, demanding evidence of direct involvement.


It's no question that Saudi Arabian citizens fund terrorism.

Much like American citizens funded the IRA.

Did the American government know it was happening? Of course they did. Our current president knew it was going on.

Did they try very hard to stop it?

Not until 911. Then a bunch of Irish American politicans started singing a different tune.

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:22 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've heard that rumor, and I'd like to see any evidence for it.  I'm no fan of the Saudi government.  But with so much asymmetrical warfare - what with al-Qaeda and ISIS, and spontaneous developments of movements - the Saudi government is a distinct, separate entity, demanding evidence of direct involvement.


It's no question that Saudi Arabian citizens fund terrorism.

Much like American citizens funded the IRA.  

Did the American government know it was happening? Of course they did. Our current president knew it was going on.

Did they try very hard to stop it?

Not until 911. Then a bunch of Irish American politicans started singing a different tune.

Do they have an obligation to stop it?  On what basis?

And how?  Suspend their drivers licenses?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

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Post by Eilzel Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:40 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've heard that rumor, and I'd like to see any evidence for it.  I'm no fan of the Saudi government.  But with so much asymmetrical warfare - what with al-Qaeda and ISIS, and spontaneous developments of movements - the Saudi government is a distinct, separate entity, demanding evidence of direct involvement.


It's no question that Saudi Arabian citizens fund terrorism.

Much like American citizens funded the IRA.  

Did the American government know it was happening? Of course they did. Our current president knew it was going on.

Did they try very hard to stop it?

Not until 911. Then a bunch of Irish American politicans started singing a different tune.

Do they have an obligation to stop it?  On what basis?

And how?  Suspend their drivers licenses?

Surely directly funding terrorism anywhere is a pretty clear cut crime. Especially against an allied nation.

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Post by Maddog Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Do they have an obligation to stop it?  On what basis?

And how?  Suspend their drivers licenses?

Surely directly funding terrorism anywhere is a pretty clear cut crime. Especially against an allied nation.

Yes, it's a crime, but it requires a lot of effort to stop it. When funds are raised "for the orphans" it's hard to keep track of those funds when they leave the country. That's what some Americans did to help terrorists in Ireland or the Middle East. Same as some Saudis do today and did 20 years ago.

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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:51 pm

But the real question is, did the Saudi government contribute funds and/or aid to the terrorists who perpetuated 9/11? We know they were Saudi individuals...but were they acting on behalf of, or in concert with the government?

The Saudi government vehemently denies it.

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Post by Maddog Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:But the real question is, did the Saudi government contribute funds and/or aid to the terrorists who perpetuated 9/11?  We know they were Saudi individuals...but were they acting on behalf of, or in concert with the government?

The Saudi government vehemently denies it.

Correct. And if Joe releases all of the 911 report, we will know, assuming you trust the accuracy of that report.

One of the great things about wikileaks is that it exposed the underpinnings of our government and other governments. It demonstrated that out government wasn't behind it. It pretty much confirmed the parts of the 911 report that have been released.

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Post by Maddog Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:But the real question is, did the Saudi government contribute funds and/or aid to the terrorists who perpetuated 9/11?  We know they were Saudi individuals...but were they acting on behalf of, or in concert with the government?

The Saudi government vehemently denies it.

Correct. And if Joe releases all of the 911 report, we will know, assuming you trust the accuracy of that report.

One of the great things about wikileaks is that it exposed the underpinnings of our government and other governments. It demonstrated that out government wasn't behind it. It pretty much confirmed the parts of the 911 report that have been released.

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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:06 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:But the real question is, did the Saudi government contribute funds and/or aid to the terrorists who perpetuated 9/11?  We know they were Saudi individuals...but were they acting on behalf of, or in concert with the government?

The Saudi government vehemently denies it.

Correct.  And if Joe releases all of the 911 report, we will know, assuming you trust the accuracy of that report.

One of the great things about wikileaks is that it exposed the underpinnings of our government and other governments. It demonstrated that out government wasn't behind it. It pretty much confirmed the parts of the 911 report that have been released.  

So far Wikileaks has released no evidence, let alone credible evidence that the Saudi government was involved in 9-11.  So we have no evidence that they were complicit.  Yesterday the FBI released its previously confidential report on the subject.  Right now it's being digested by media experts.

At present it's just an interesting hypothesis.  I'd love to join you in the 'pile-on', but I operate on the basis of evidence.

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Post by Maddog Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Correct.  And if Joe releases all of the 911 report, we will know, assuming you trust the accuracy of that report.

One of the great things about wikileaks is that it exposed the underpinnings of our government and other governments. It demonstrated that out government wasn't behind it. It pretty much confirmed the parts of the 911 report that have been released.  

So far Wikileaks has released no evidence, let alone credible evidence that the Saudi government was involved in 9-11.  So we have no evidence that they were complicit.  Yesterday the FBI released its previously confidential report on the subject.  Right now it's being digested by media experts.

At present it's just an interesting hypothesis.  I'd love to join you in the 'pile-on', but I operate on the basis of evidence.

Go back and re read what I said. I never said the Saudi government did fund it.

You would really.be a much better poster if you read a lot more than you typed.

You're far too in love with seeing your own words instead of gaining the knowledge needed to engage in meaningful discussions.


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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:04 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So far Wikileaks has released no evidence, let alone credible evidence that the Saudi government was involved in 9-11.  So we have no evidence that they were complicit.  Yesterday the FBI released its previously confidential report on the subject.  Right now it's being digested by media experts.

At present it's just an interesting hypothesis.  I'd love to join you in the 'pile-on', but I operate on the basis of evidence.

Go back and re read what I said.  I never said the Saudi government did fund it.

You would really.be a much better poster if you read a lot more than you typed.

You're far too in love with seeing your own words instead of gaining the knowledge needed to engage in meaningful discussions.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions. I'm being the original skeptic.

So far, it's a criminal matter: 19 mischief-makers brought down two towers, killed a few people, and made a hell of a mess. With those facts, no war was ever justified. It was a matter for the New York City Police Department to investigate and prosecute.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, leave it to the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) to figure out.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Go back and re read what I said.  I never said the Saudi government did fund it.

You would really.be a much better poster if you read a lot more than you typed.

You're far too in love with seeing your own words instead of gaining the knowledge needed to engage in meaningful discussions.  

I'm not drawing any conclusions.  I'm being the original skeptic.

So far, it's a criminal matter: 19 mischief-makers brought down two towers, killed a few people, and made a hell of a mess.  With those facts, no war was ever justified.  It was a matter for the New York City Police Department to investigate and prosecute.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, leave it to the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) to figure out.


Hijacking is a federal offense "counselor". Cool

Jesus you babble some shit just to see your words on the screen in front of you.

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Post by Original Quill Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:40 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm not drawing any conclusions.  I'm being the original skeptic.

So far, it's a criminal matter: 19 mischief-makers brought down two towers, killed a few people, and made a hell of a mess.  With those facts, no war was ever justified.  It was a matter for the New York City Police Department to investigate and prosecute.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, leave it to the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS) to figure out.


Hijacking is a federal offense "counselor". Cool  

Jesus you babble some shit just to see your words on the screen in front of you.

So it's a federal crime as well.  Prosecutors trade cases all the time, as long as they go with the higher penalty.  I would say that mass murder is the highest one at issue in the towers case.  New York City should handle any prosecution in the twin towers case.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, it's already in federal hands with DCIS.

Learn to think, little man.  You might have figured that out yourself.  Rolling Eyes

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Maddog Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:00 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Hijacking is a federal offense "counselor". Cool  

Jesus you babble some shit just to see your words on the screen in front of you.

So it's a federal crime as well.  Prosecutors trade cases all the time, as long as they go with the higher penalty.  I would say that mass murder is the highest one at issue in the towers case.  New York City should handle any prosecution in the twin towers case.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, it's already in federal hands with DCIS.

Learn to think, little man.  You might have figured that out yourself.  Rolling Eyes

Hahaha. Razz

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Post by Original Quill Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:14 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So it's a federal crime as well.  Prosecutors trade cases all the time, as long as they go with the higher penalty.  I would say that mass murder is the highest one at issue in the towers case.  New York City should handle any prosecution in the twin towers case.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, it's already in federal hands with DCIS.

Learn to think, little man.  You might have figured that out yourself.  Rolling Eyes

Hahaha. Razz

No answer? Thought not. I'm betting that Saudi Arabia skates, not because the reports make them clean, but that relevant portions are heavily redacted.

They have two meetings between Saudi officials and the 9/11 terrorists, but nothing about what was said. Without content, the Saudi officials could say they were just discussing the weather.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Maddog Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Hahaha. Razz

No answer?  Thought not.  I'm betting that Saudi Arabia skates, not because the reports make them clean, but that relevant portions are heavily redacted.

They have two meetings between Saudi officials and the 9/11 terrorists, but nothing about what was said.  Without content, the Saudi officials could say they were just discussing the weather.

You get what you deserve from me.

Maybe someone else wants to invest time in a conversation with you.

I don't see the point.

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Post by Original Quill Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:45 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No answer?  Thought not.  I'm betting that Saudi Arabia skates, not because the reports make them clean, but that relevant portions are heavily redacted.

They have two meetings between Saudi officials and the 9/11 terrorists, but nothing about what was said.  Without content, the Saudi officials could say they were just discussing the weather.

You get what you deserve from me.

Maybe someone else wants to invest time in a conversation with you.  

I don't see the point.

I get what everyone else gets from you - you're posting on a public forum, Red.

Everyone sees: You talk up until you are stuck for an answer. You borrow (steal?) ideas, and when someone tries to discuss details with you, you cannot. It reveals you are in way over your head.

It's comical...you are like a broken robot, which has received a traumatic blow to its central processor. It can only keep repeating...over, and over, and over. Rolling Eyes

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Maddog Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 pm

Who else has posted on this thread in 4 days?

You're boring as fuck and full of shit.

I'll keep reminding you of that too.

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Post by Original Quill Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:39 pm

Maddog wrote:Who else has posted on this thread in 4 days?

Only you. Twisted Evil

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