Her daughter was falsely diagnosed with long Covid - now she's dead

As a radio-frequency engineer, my 27-year-old daughter Jess should be designing her next satellite right now.

She should be splashing through puddles, running 5km, painting her nails to perfection, sharing cleaning hacks, creating her own crocheted crafts, avidly reading a new book, planning the itinerary for her next travel adventure, and looking forward to a future with her partner Alex.

But for my lovely Jess, time has run out and there is no ‘right now’.

The unbearable truth is, Jess lost her life to cancer. A cancer she did not know she had until it was too late. There was no treatment or opportunity for her to fight it because in 2020 – a year dominated by Covid-19 – the only tangible explanation medics gave for her poor health was ‘long Covid’.

In the aching void of losing Jess, my precious, beautiful child, I grapple with the need to keep her memory alive. I promised I would and, in doing so, tell her story. Sweet Jess, so desperate for others to avoid the same pain and suffering as her.  

Last summer, when our world was enveloped in an eerie silence and everything but the virus stood still, Jess began to feel unwell.

She first sought medical support in July because, in addition to chronic fatigue, she had developed a light but persistent cough and hoarse voice. She was treated liberally with antibiotics, but her symptoms did not improve.

The doctor’s explanation was long Covid – side effects of coronavirus that last more than 12 weeks – because, despite never thinking she had it, and two negative coronavirus tests, she was told these tests were not always accurate.

Jess was perplexed but accepting, as she was not a medical expert and initially grateful for some explanation for her poor health. Long Covid seemed improbable but the doctors were not unduly concerned and were reassuring.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:GP’s are pretty useless, let’s be fair.  They are just human-Google’s.
We only see a GP for a prescription refill or because we want to see an actual doctor.

I’ve seen some pretty shit GP’s who have about as much knowledge as me on my thyroid. As for asking them about specifics of an illness....forget it!

Some years ago, I had severe knee problems.   Caused probably by the years of high impact dancing I did.  I got referred to  a so called specialist consultant, a dour faced Pakistani man who never smiled, barely said two words to me, poked my knees with his forefinger and told me I had arthritis and I'd have to live with it.   I told him I knew my body, that I suspected cartilage problems most likely torn meniscus.  He gave a me look reserved for inferiors, imbeciles and middle aged women then stalked off.  

I went back to my doctor and demanded a scan.  Lo, and behold, I had torn meniscus.

The next experience of how shitty NHS staff can be came when I had to go into hospital with a kidney stone.  I had to give a water sample in a bottle.  The muslim doctor refused to take if from me, in spite of his wearing gloves and the fact that I'd washed the bottle.  Instead he  called a nurse to take it.  When she turned up she was fuming with him.  She said she'd had to come from right across the other side of the building just because he wouldn't take that sample from me.  He made me feel like some untouchable filthy creature that was beneath him.    I was in agony, and this guy stood at a computer screen and fired off all these questions with his back to me.  

Then there was the time when I was 18 and giving birth.  I was left alone and terrified in an empty dark ward for nearly 10 hours.  I can't tell you how bad that was.   It was my first baby and not one single nurse cared jack shit about me.  I got no water all night.  I got no support.   And I wont even relate what the doctor did to me to induce labour because these days I could have sued the arse off her.

Then there's my brother who is registered disabled.  Left on a ward with no food or drink for 12 hours.   He kept ringing for the nurses but they ignored him.     No painkillers  all night because no doctors around.   We had to go across the road and bring in Kentucky fried chicken for him and drinks.  There was some old guy with dementia who had shit the bed, and he was walking around smearing shite everywhere, and while all this was happening my brother could hear the nurses chatting and laughing at the ward station and talking about who they'd shagged the night before!   Seriously!  I was horrified when I found out.

To balance this, I've had some great NHS staff who've gone the extra mile.   But I'm not putting them on a pedestal and I never will.   At the end of the day that's their job and the profession they choose to do.

Vintage wrote:That's all about some peoples attitude to the job and in some instances culture (that has no place at work) and pretty lax management.

Vintage wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Some years ago, I had severe knee problems.   Caused probably by the years of high impact dancing I did.  I got referred to  a so called specialist consultant, a dour faced Pakistani man who never smiled, barely said two words to me, poked my knees with his forefinger and told me I had arthritis and I'd have to live with it.   I told him I knew my body, that I suspected cartilage problems most likely torn meniscus.  He gave a me look reserved for inferiors, imbeciles and middle aged women then stalked off.  

I went back to my doctor and demanded a scan.  Lo, and behold, I had torn meniscus.

The next experience of how shitty NHS staff can be came when I had to go into hospital with a kidney stone.  I had to give a water sample in a bottle.  The muslim doctor refused to take if from me, in spite of his wearing gloves and the fact that I'd washed the bottle.  Instead he  called a nurse to take it.  When she turned up she was fuming with him.  She said she'd had to come from right across the other side of the building just because he wouldn't take that sample from me.  He made me feel like some untouchable filthy creature that was beneath him.    I was in agony, and this guy stood at a computer screen and fired off all these questions with his back to me.  

Then there was the time when I was 18 and giving birth.  I was left alone and terrified in an empty dark ward for nearly 10 hours.  I can't tell you how bad that was.   It was my first baby and not one single nurse cared jack shit about me.  I got no water all night.  I got no support.   And I wont even relate what the doctor did to me to induce labour because these days I could have sued the arse off her.

Then there's my brother who is registered disabled.  Left on a ward with no food or drink for 12 hours.   He kept ringing for the nurses but they ignored him.     No painkillers  all night because no doctors around.   We had to go across the road and bring in Kentucky fried chicken for him and drinks.  There was some old guy with dementia who had shit the bed, and he was walking around smearing shite everywhere, and while all this was happening my brother could hear the nurses chatting and laughing at the ward station and talking about who they'd shagged the night before!   Seriously!  I was horrified when I found out.

To balance this, I've had some great NHS staff who've gone the extra mile.   But I'm not putting them on a pedestal and I never will.   At the end of the day that's their job and the profession they choose to do.

That's all about some peoples attitude to the job and in some instances culture (that has no place at work) and pretty lax management.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:A % of tax and we pay throughout our working lives goes into the NHS....as it goes into policing the country, keeping it clean, paying towards the royal family, etc.....a pittance in fact for the service compared to what you would pay for private medical insurance.
NI contributions apart from propping up the NHS also prop up your state pension when you retire, so you get it back.

If we are not working for any reason, underprivileged, retired, underage, too ill to work, the same NHS service is there.

Sounds like yall need to pay some more.  Maybe you could actually see a doctor in person.

Syl wrote:Having said that, I have a friend in London and she has no problem making a GP appointment in the morning and being seen the same day.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:Having said that, I have a friend in London and she has no problem making a GP appointment in the morning and being seen the same day.

That's why I speculate it is regional.

Syl wrote:A % of tax and we pay throughout our working lives goes into the NHS....as it goes into policing the country, keeping it clean, paying towards the royal family, etc.....a pittance in fact for the service compared to what you would pay for private medical insurance.
NI contributions apart from propping up the NHS also prop up your state pension when you retire, so you get it back.

If we are not working for any reason, underprivileged, retired, underage, too ill to work, the same NHS service is there.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:A % of tax and we pay throughout our working lives goes into the NHS....as it goes into policing the country, keeping it clean, paying towards the royal family, etc.....a pittance in fact for the service compared to what you would pay for private medical insurance.
NI contributions apart from propping up the NHS also prop up your state pension when you retire, so you get it back.

If we are not working for any reason, underprivileged, retired, underage, too ill to work, the same NHS service is there.

Sounds like yall need to pay some more.  Maybe you could actually see a doctor in person.

lolly wrote:Such a sad and unnecessary ending to a promising life.  Sadly it's not an uncommon story since covid became the only thing that mattered.

Truth is, the NHS is being run down on purpose.  Hospitals closed, departments underfunded, no incentive for good medical staff to stay, so much money wasted paying penpushers to do F-all while depriving the actual working force of funds to do the job.

So much has already been sold off or privatised.  it's very much mismanaged and done so for the reason of getting rid of it.  
People get very triggered when you say anything disparaging about the NHS especially if they are Americas saying it. .  America's system is also far from perfect in fact sometimes it's downright heartless.    but we don't have to have either system, other countries have similar systems and they work very well. But both the USA and the UK are run by money-grabbing power-hungry governments ( Labour and Tory)  and pharmaceutical companies.  When pharma pays your GP bonuses, then it's no longer a system for helping people with their health.

People in the UK need to stand together and fight this destruction of the NHS  it can still be brought back from the dead.

Syl wrote:A % of tax and we pay throughout our working lives goes into the NHS....as it goes into policing the country, keeping it clean, paying towards the royal family, etc.....a pittance in fact for the service compared to what you would pay for private medical insurance.
NI contributions apart from propping up the NHS also prop up your state pension when you retire, so you get it back.

If we are not working for any reason, underprivileged, retired, underage, too ill to work, the same NHS service is there.

HoratioTarr wrote:

lolly wrote:Such a sad and unnecessary ending to a promising life.  Sadly it's not an uncommon story since covid became the only thing that mattered.

Truth is, the NHS is being run down on purpose.  Hospitals closed, departments underfunded, no incentive for good medical staff to stay, so much money wasted paying penpushers to do F-all while depriving the actual working force of funds to do the job.

So much has already been sold off or privatised.  it's very much mismanaged and done so for the reason of getting rid of it.  
People get very triggered when you say anything disparaging about the NHS especially if they are Americas saying it. .  America's system is also far from perfect in fact sometimes it's downright heartless.    but we don't have to have either system, other countries have similar systems and they work very well. But both the USA and the UK are run by money-grabbing power-hungry governments ( Labour and Tory)  and pharmaceutical companies.  When pharma pays your GP bonuses, then it's no longer a system for helping people with their health.

People in the UK need to stand together and fight this destruction of the NHS  it can still be brought back from the dead.

I have a real gripe about the NHS insisting that all nursing staff have degrees.    Years ago you joined and learned the job on the hoof.   Nursing was open to anyone and it ran like a well oiled machine.   I'm not sure why people think a uni graduate is any more smart than a someone who can't afford to go to uni?    It's not fair.  

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:A % of tax and we pay throughout our working lives goes into the NHS....as it goes into policing the country, keeping it clean, paying towards the royal family, etc.....a pittance in fact for the service compared to what you would pay for private medical insurance.
NI contributions apart from propping up the NHS also prop up your state pension when you retire, so you get it back.

If we are not working for any reason, underprivileged, retired, underage, too ill to work, the same NHS service is there.

Many of us women are being diddled out of 50K of that pension.  

HoratioTarr wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Sounds like yall need to pay some more.  Maybe you could actually see a doctor in person.

We have private health and you do get things done very quickly, but you're talking a lot of money.  

Lolly wrote:People get very triggered when you say anything disparaging about the NHS especially if they are Americas saying it. . America's system is also far from perfect in fact sometimes it's downright heartless. but we don't have to have either system, other countries have similar systems and they work very well. But both the USA and the UK are run by money-grabbing power-hungry governments ( Labour and Tory) and pharmaceutical companies.

Original Quill wrote:

Lolly wrote:People get very triggered when you say anything disparaging about the NHS especially if they are Americas saying it. .  America's system is also far from perfect in fact sometimes it's downright heartless.    but we don't have to have either system, other countries have similar systems and they work very well. But both the USA and the UK are run by money-grabbing power-hungry governments ( Labour and Tory)  and pharmaceutical companies.

I was with you right up until you claimed the American system, and discussions about it, have any equivalence to the British.  The Brits have an NHS.  The Americans have nothing, except a meek Medicare for those over 65-years, which leaves 33% of the cost uncovered – thus creating a “gap” which reintroduces the same overpriced/under-covered conditions as pre-Medicare.

This means that while Britain is arguing over which facility, which procedure, which drug is to be best, Americans are still squabbling over whether socialized medicine should be embraced at all.  That is why you see so many (conservative) Americans arguing against anything to do with the NHS – they are still immersed the initial battle of whether or not to accept socialized medicine.  They don’t really care about the details, they only have arguments about high costs and/or failure of services so they can say, see, it doesn’t work!!

To wit: it’s not the same conversation.  Conservative Americans are still having the initial inhumane conversation of, who do we kill?  You saw it amply during this past pandemic, where those Americans weighed wearing a facemask, against killing grandma.  To them, concerns about humanity are dropped into the abyss of nothingness...it’s only about, what's in it for me?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I was with you right up until you claimed the American system, and discussions about it, have any equivalence to the British. The Brits have an NHS. The Americans have nothing, except a meek Medicare for those over 65-years, which leaves 33% of the cost uncovered – thus creating a “gap” which reintroduces the same overpriced/under-covered conditions as pre-Medicare.

This means that while Britain is arguing over which facility, which procedure, which drug is to be best, Americans are still squabbling over whether socialized medicine should be embraced at all. That is why you see so many (conservative) Americans arguing against anything to do with the NHS – they are still immersed the initial battle of whether or not to accept socialized medicine. They don’t really care about the details, they only have arguments about high costs and/or failure of services so they can say, see, it doesn’t work!!

To wit: it’s not the same conversation. Conservative Americans are still having the initial inhumane conversation of, who do we kill? You saw it amply during this past pandemic, where those Americans weighed wearing a facemask, against killing grandma. To them, concerns about humanity are dropped into the abyss of nothingness...it’s only about, what's in it for me?

What is Medicaid?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

What is Medicaid?

Medicaid is the same as Medicare...too little, too late.

Medicaid has a little catcha-22 called share-of-cost, which acts exactly like the 'deductible' (which btw was invented by private insurance companies).  It's a way of silently vacating the value of the consideration.

And, if that isn’t enough, heirs will soon find out that it’s only a loan, which they must pay back though they never were a part of the transaction, and never obligated themselves.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Medicaid is the same as Medicare...too little, too late.

Medicaid has a little catcha-22 called share-of-cost, which acts exactly like the 'deductible' (which btw was invented by private insurance companies).  It's a way of silently vacating the value of the consideration.

And, if that isn’t enough, heirs will soon find out that it’s only a loan, which they must pay back though they never were a part of the transaction, and never obligated themselves.

Guess Medicare for all is a bad idea then.

Original Quill wrote:

Lolly wrote:People get very triggered when you say anything disparaging about the NHS especially if they are Americas saying it. .  America's system is also far from perfect in fact sometimes it's downright heartless.    but we don't have to have either system, other countries have similar systems and they work very well. But both the USA and the UK are run by money-grabbing power-hungry governments ( Labour and Tory)  and pharmaceutical companies.

I was with you right up until you claimed the American system, and discussions about it, have any equivalence to the British.  The Brits have an NHS.  The Americans have nothing, except a meek Medicare for those over 65-years, which leaves 33% of the cost uncovered – thus creating a “gap” which reintroduces the same overpriced/under-covered conditions as pre-Medicare.

This means that while Britain is arguing over which facility, which procedure, which drug is to be best, Americans are still squabbling over whether socialized medicine should be embraced at all.  That is why you see so many (conservative) Americans arguing against anything to do with the NHS – they are still immersed the initial battle of whether or not to accept socialized medicine.  They don’t really care about the details, they only have arguments about high costs and/or failure of services so they can say, see, it doesn’t work!!

To wit: it’s not the same conversation.  Conservative Americans are still having the initial inhumane conversation of, who do we kill?  You saw it amply during this past pandemic, where those Americans weighed wearing a facemask, against killing grandma.  To them, concerns about humanity are dropped into the abyss of nothingness...it’s only about, what's in it for me?

Lolly wrote:Americans seem to be scared of our system and yet those in America unlucky enough not to have insurance are treated like beggars and given the scrappings that are leftover
Those Americans who feel their system is better than the NHS fail to see that part of it.  

Syl wrote:If the government really do intend to scrap the NHS they will be doing a GREAT disservice to this country.
In spite of all it's faults now, ALL of us have been taken care of by the NHS since the day we were born, that was it's pledge when first founded, care from cradle to grave.

I admit I do get a bit defensive when people who have never set foot in the UK try to run the NHS down. (Maddog, are you listenung? )

It's not perfect, and we can all relay the times we feel we haven't had the best service, but overall, it's there when we are truly in need of it.

lolly wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I was with you right up until you claimed the American system, and discussions about it, have any equivalence to the British.  The Brits have an NHS.  The Americans have nothing, except a meek Medicare for those over 65-years, which leaves 33% of the cost uncovered – thus creating a “gap” which reintroduces the same overpriced/under-covered conditions as pre-Medicare.

This means that while Britain is arguing over which facility, which procedure, which drug is to be best, Americans are still squabbling over whether socialized medicine should be embraced at all.  That is why you see so many (conservative) Americans arguing against anything to do with the NHS – they are still immersed the initial battle of whether or not to accept socialized medicine.  They don’t really care about the details, they only have arguments about high costs and/or failure of services so they can say, see, it doesn’t work!!

To wit: it’s not the same conversation.  Conservative Americans are still having the initial inhumane conversation of, who do we kill?  You saw it amply during this past pandemic, where those Americans weighed wearing a facemask, against killing grandma.  To them, concerns about humanity are dropped into the abyss of nothingness...it’s only about, what's in it for me?

You misunderstand me.  I wasn't comparing them.  I was just saying how triggered we Brits get when an American criticises our NHS.    Americans seem to be scared of our system and yet those in America unlucky enough not to have insurance are treated like beggars and given the scrappings that are leftover
Those Americans who feel their system is better than the NHS fail to see that part of it.  

I've seen it from both sides, my sister had private insurance for many years, long before many others here had it,  when she needed that insurance they found a loophole and abandoned her and the good old NHS  did its thing. From her NHS bed, she could see the private hospital that she should have been in.  

My sister although not poor had the best of everything free ( I won't say much about her hospital stay as that wasn't the best as good nurses are no longer encouraged to stay and with the cutbacks even then (2006) the rot was setting in,  but when she came home she had 3  visits a day from nurses, a GP every few days, all the equipment she needed. delivered free of charge.  when she had appointments for hospital treatment a ambulance was sent

two weeks after my sister died I went to America to stay with my best friend who had breast cancer, no insurance due to having long term conditions from childhood.  I was there for 6 weeks, didn't see one nurse dr or hospice worker in that time come to her home.   She was having Chemo and radiotherapy and she had to have samples of medication for sickness etc her consultant ran out of samples so she was left without any.  She was wheelchair-bound ( due to childhood illnesses) and she had to crawl around her home due to burns on her hands from the treatment, she had to travel by train from San Luis Obispo to LA  almost 6 hours there and another 6 hours back.  WTF?   She had to go three times in that 6 weeks I could not go with her due to finances, in the UK I would have just been able to jump in the free ambulance with her, sit and keep her company for the journey and for the treatment.
  Anyway, I could go on and on but I think I made the points I wanted to make.

We, the UK, are heading for the same two-tier system the US has.   That isn't a good thing and something most here don't want, but we do want our NHS in all its glory back, they are running it into the ground on purpose so they can say it's not viable and scrap it.

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:GP’s are pretty useless, let’s be fair.  They are just human-Google’s.
We only see a GP for a prescription refill or because we want to see an actual doctor.

I’ve seen some pretty shit GP’s who have about as much knowledge as me on my thyroid. As for asking them about specifics of an illness....forget it!

Some years ago, I had severe knee problems.   Caused probably by the years of high impact dancing I did.  I got referred to  a so called specialist consultant, a dour faced Pakistani man who never smiled, barely said two words to me, poked my knees with his forefinger and told me I had arthritis and I'd have to live with it.   I told him I knew my body, that I suspected cartilage problems most likely torn meniscus.  He gave a me look reserved for inferiors, imbeciles and middle aged women then stalked off.  

I went back to my doctor and demanded a scan.  Lo, and behold, I had torn meniscus.

The next experience of how shitty NHS staff can be came when I had to go into hospital with a kidney stone.  I had to give a water sample in a bottle.  The muslim doctor refused to take if from me, in spite of his wearing gloves and the fact that I'd washed the bottle.  Instead he  called a nurse to take it.  When she turned up she was fuming with him.  She said she'd had to come from right across the other side of the building just because he wouldn't take that sample from me.  He made me feel like some untouchable filthy creature that was beneath him.    I was in agony, and this guy stood at a computer screen and fired off all these questions with his back to me.  

Then there was the time when I was 18 and giving birth.  I was left alone and terrified in an empty dark ward for nearly 10 hours.  I can't tell you how bad that was.   It was my first baby and not one single nurse cared jack shit about me.  I got no water all night.  I got no support.   And I wont even relate what the doctor did to me to induce labour because these days I could have sued the arse off her.

Then there's my brother who is registered disabled.  Left on a ward with no food or drink for 12 hours.   He kept ringing for the nurses but they ignored him.     No painkillers  all night because no doctors around.   We had to go across the road and bring in Kentucky fried chicken for him and drinks.  There was some old guy with dementia who had shit the bed, and he was walking around smearing shite everywhere, and while all this was happening my brother could hear the nurses chatting and laughing at the ward station and talking about who they'd shagged the night before!   Seriously!  I was horrified when I found out.

To balance this, I've had some great NHS staff who've gone the extra mile.   But I'm not putting them on a pedestal and I never will.   At the end of the day that's their job and the profession they choose to do.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:If the government really do intend to scrap the NHS they will be doing a GREAT disservice to this country.
In spite of all it's faults now, ALL of us have been taken care of by the NHS since the day we were born, that was it's pledge when first founded, care from cradle to grave.

I admit I do get a bit defensive when people who have never set foot in the UK try to run the NHS down. (Maddog, are you listenung? )

It's not perfect, and we can all relay the times we feel we haven't had the best service, but overall, it's there when we are truly in need of it.

I've been listening for years.  


Any American can get healtcare when they truly need it.

You don't think we leave all of those gun shot victims out in the hospital parking lot to bleed to death do you?

Do you think that inner city woman having her 5th child while never paying a dime in taxes or insurance payments has the child behind a tree?

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I've been listening for years.  


Any American can get healtcare when they truly need it.

You don't think we leave all of those gun shot victims out in the hospital parking lot to bleed to death do you?

Do you think that inner city woman having her 5th child while never paying a dime in taxes or insurance payments has the child behind a tree?

They still pay far too great a cost for it, though. If they can't pay for it with wheelbarrows of money, they pay for it by being financially destroyed, losing all upward mobility.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:If the government really do intend to scrap the NHS they will be doing a GREAT disservice to this country.
In spite of all it's faults now, ALL of us have been taken care of by the NHS since the day we were born, that was it's pledge when first founded, care from cradle to grave.

I admit I do get a bit defensive when people who have never set foot in the UK try to run the NHS down. (Maddog, are you listenung? )

It's not perfect, and we can all relay the times we feel we haven't had the best service, but overall, it's there when we are truly in need of it.

I've been listening for years.  


Any American can get healtcare when they truly need it.

You don't think we leave all of those gun shot victims out in the hospital parking lot to bleed to death do you?

Do you think that inner city woman having her 5th child while never paying a dime in taxes or insurance payments has the child behind a tree?

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I've been listening for years.  


Any American can get healtcare when they truly need it.

You don't think we leave all of those gun shot victims out in the hospital parking lot to bleed to death do you?

Do you think that inner city woman having her 5th child while never paying a dime in taxes or insurance payments has the child behind a tree?

I honestly dont know.
You, Quill and Ben are all from the USA, and your descriptions of the healthcare service there vary a lot.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

I honestly dont know.
You, Quill and Ben are all from the USA, and your descriptions of the healthcare service there vary a lot.

Quill is liar.

Ben touched on the problem for people who don't carry health insurance, or aren't covered by the taxpayer.  It can cause you a great deal of financial problems for something serious.  

Of course you still can get care, because the rest of us end up paying more and funding a pretty damn good, albeit expensive system.


When you hear Americans bitching about Healthcare, its usually not about the level of care, like you hear from Brits. It's about the cost. I've never made the claim that our system is cheap, just that there is no place on the planet where you're better off if you need good care. There are places that are much cheaper and fairer in term of what they deliver.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Quill is liar.

Ben touched on the problem for people who don't carry health insurance, or aren't covered by the taxpayer.  It can cause you a great deal of financial problems for something serious.  

Of course you still can get care, because the rest of us end up paying more and funding a pretty damn good, albeit expensive system.


When you hear Americans bitching about Healthcare, its usually not about the level of care, like you hear from Brits. It's about the cost. I've never made the claim that our system is cheap, just that there is no place on the planet where you're better off if you need good care. There are places that are much cheaper and fairer in term of what they deliver.

Cost is a big factor surely.
What happens to people who cant afford pricey private health cover but dont qualify for benefits?

We have one of the finest cancer care facilities in the world right here in Manchester.
It's estimared  that one in two of us will get cancer in our lifetime. The ongoing treatment, ops and aftercare which can last for years would cost a fortune. Here, thanks to the NHS, it costs no extra.

Original Quill wrote:

Lolly wrote:Americans seem to be scared of our system and yet those in America unlucky enough not to have insurance are treated like beggars and given the scrappings that are leftover
Those Americans who feel their system is better than the NHS fail to see that part of it.  

A perfect description.  Americans are scared of any type of socialism, even though they've grown socialist institutions right in their own garden: the military, the police, hospitals, fire departments, water departments, power departments, etc., are all owned, run, paid for, and peopled by the collective lot, yet they are afraid to admit it is socialism.

Americans misunderstand socialism.  From the days of red baiting during the 1950’s, they have had visions of socialism as goose-stepping soldiers, and big brother telling them how to work, where to play, and what to eat on a daily basis.  They don’t realize that socialism is merely an economic organization, that is limited to questions of how to capitalize industry and big enterprises.  Hell, we’ve built up the largest military in the world, ever, on a socialist basis, and nobody even noticed it was happening.  That’s how intrusive socialism is to your every-day life.

The only thing that socialism does is remove profit, one of the four burdens of production, from our shoulders.  It eliminates that pointless mouth to feed, and frees people to foster their own creativity and energy directly to the betterment of life in general.

Maddog wrote:

lolly wrote:

You misunderstand me.  I wasn't comparing them.  I was just saying how triggered we Brits get when an American criticises our NHS.    Americans seem to be scared of our system and yet those in America unlucky enough not to have insurance are treated like beggars and given the scrappings that are leftover
Those Americans who feel their system is better than the NHS fail to see that part of it.  

I've seen it from both sides, my sister had private insurance for many years, long before many others here had it,  when she needed that insurance they found a loophole and abandoned her and the good old NHS  did its thing. From her NHS bed, she could see the private hospital that she should have been in.  

My sister although not poor had the best of everything free ( I won't say much about her hospital stay as that wasn't the best as good nurses are no longer encouraged to stay and with the cutbacks even then (2006) the rot was setting in,  but when she came home she had 3  visits a day from nurses, a GP every few days, all the equipment she needed. delivered free of charge.  when she had appointments for hospital treatment a ambulance was sent

two weeks after my sister died I went to America to stay with my best friend who had breast cancer, no insurance due to having long term conditions from childhood.  I was there for 6 weeks, didn't see one nurse dr or hospice worker in that time come to her home.   She was having Chemo and radiotherapy and she had to have samples of medication for sickness etc her consultant ran out of samples so she was left without any.  She was wheelchair-bound ( due to childhood illnesses) and she had to crawl around her home due to burns on her hands from the treatment, she had to travel by train from San Luis Obispo to LA  almost 6 hours there and another 6 hours back.  WTF?   She had to go three times in that 6 weeks I could not go with her due to finances, in the UK I would have just been able to jump in the free ambulance with her, sit and keep her company for the journey and for the treatment.
  Anyway, I could go on and on but I think I made the points I wanted to make.

We, the UK, are heading for the same two-tier system the US has.   That isn't a good thing and something most here don't want, but we do want our NHS in all its glory back, they are running it into the ground on purpose so they can say it's not viable and scrap it.

Who paid for the care of your friend?

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

Cost is a big factor surely.
What happens to people who cant afford pricey private health cover but dont qualify for benefits?

We have one of the finest cancer care facilities in the world right here in Manchester.
It's estimared  that one in two of us will get cancer in our lifetime. The ongoing treatment, ops and aftercare which can last for years would cost a fortune. Here, thanks to the NHS, it costs no extra.

You get treated, and then you get a bill. Cash is king so if you're not using insurance the price is usually half.

Then you work out a payment plan like i said above. You start making payments after you use medical services, not before. It's what a lot of younger folks do, even if they can afford health insurance. They roll the dice.

If you incur too much in terms of debt, there is always bankruptcy too.  You can get them discharged, but it affects your credit rating for several years.


In the old days, before Obama care, I could carry a very cheap policy that didn't kick in until my bills hit 5 or 10 grand in a year. That way, I negotiated all of my medical care the same way I would a plumber.

In the event something catastrophic happened, I was.covered 100% up to a few million. That was a great plan for relatively healthy people who might spend 500 a year on medical costs.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You get treated, and then you get a bill. Cash is king so if you're not using insurance the price is usually half.

Then you work out a payment plan like i said above. You start making payments after you use medical services, not before. It's what a lot of younger folks do, even if they can afford health insurance. They roll the dice.

If you incur too much in terms of debt, there is always bankruptcy too.  You can get them discharged, but it affects your credit rating for several years.


In the old days, before Obama care, I could carry a very cheap policy that didn't kick in until my bills hit 5 or 10 grand in a year. That way, I negotiated all of my medical care the same way I would a plumber.

In the event something catastrophic happened, I was.covered 100% up to a few million. That was a great plan for relatively healthy people who might spend 500 a year on medical costs.

'Cash is King', when peoples lives are on the line that's a pretty scary thought to me.

Syl wrote:I think Maddog is saying you DO get treatment but you then get a bill that can put you in debt for life. If you cant pay it you can claim bankruptcy that ruins your credit rating for years....sounds like a plan...not.

That system would put many off even seeking medical treatment in the first place.

Syl wrote:I think Maddog is saying you DO get treatment but you then get a bill that can put you in debt for life. If you cant pay it you can claim bankruptcy that ruins your credit rating for years....sounds like a plan...not.

That system would put many off even seeking medical treatment in the first place.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You get treated, and then you get a bill. Cash is king so if you're not using insurance the price is usually half.

Then you work out a payment plan like i said above. You start making payments after you use medical services, not before. It's what a lot of younger folks do, even if they can afford health insurance. They roll the dice.

If you incur too much in terms of debt, there is always bankruptcy too.  You can get them discharged, but it affects your credit rating for several years.


In the old days, before Obama care, I could carry a very cheap policy that didn't kick in until my bills hit 5 or 10 grand in a year. That way, I negotiated all of my medical care the same way I would a plumber.

In the event something catastrophic happened, I was.covered 100% up to a few million. That was a great plan for relatively healthy people who might spend 500 a year on medical costs.

'Cash is King', when peoples lives are on the line that's a pretty scary thought to me.

Syl wrote:Yes, but the point is you have to pay, whether that's through insurance or not, it still costs you a heck of a lot more than we pay through our income taxes, where a small % goes towards the NHS.

I am sure with a system like yours, many people will avoid urgent Dr or hospital visits because they simply cant afford either medical insurance or payment for services.

Syl wrote:Yes, but the point is you have to pay, whether that's through insurance or not, it still costs you a heck of a lot more than we pay through our income taxes, where a small % goes towards the NHS.

I am sure with a system like yours, many people will avoid urgent Dr or hospital visits because they simply cant afford either medical insurance or payment for services.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:Yes, but the point is you have to pay, whether that's through insurance or not, it still costs you a heck of a lot more than we pay through our income taxes, where a small % goes towards the NHS.

I am sure with a system like yours, many people will avoid urgent Dr or hospital visits because they simply cant afford either medical insurance or payment for services.

Or, you go years without paying anything.

Many people do avoid routine doctor appointments. That's been the knock on our system compared to yours. You see your GP's all the time, which now appears not to be true.

If I was in your country, I would pay about the same in taxes as I do for insurance, yet I would have to put up with all of the BS I've read on this thread and many others.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Or, you go years without paying anything.

Many people do avoid routine doctor appointments. That's been the knock on our system compared to yours. You see your GP's all the time, which now appears not to be true.

If I was in your country, I would pay about the same in taxes as I do for insurance, yet I would have to put up with all of the BS I've read on this thread and many others.

I don't pretend the NHS is as good as it once was, it isn't...but like I keep saying, mu bugbear is with GP's...they are overpaid and underworked, many preferring to go part time, work freelance,  or take early retirement, which makes it nigh on impossible to man the surgeries like they used to.

On the other hand, if you are suddenly or terminally ill, diagnosed with cancer or some other horrible long term illness, not to mention needing maternity or  childcare care, the NHS is brilliant, and your personal finances don't come into the equation.

Syl wrote:The rich dont have a problem paying, the poor can claim benefits so dont have to pay, but what about the others?
What about the ones who earn enough not to be entitled to any help but just manage to  scrape by.....which is, in this country anyway, the majority.