Maddog wants to know what the policies are to increase representation.can anybody help him ?

there you go mate started the topic for you as its not Not really a subject i am familiar with
hopefully this will help
in the mean time i did a bit of research for you
and here are the first links regarding the subject you seem keen to explore
Now i have only glanced at them so haven't thought that deeply about it
https://www.socialtalent.com/blog/recruitment/4-simplest-ways-improve-diversity-organization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_v._University_of_Texas_(2016)

I know the answer.

I don't ask questions unless I already know the answer.

Maddog wrote:I know the answer.

I don't ask questions unless I already know the answer.

Don't you ever ask questions to find out an answer?

Maddog wrote:I know the answer.

I don't ask questions unless I already know the answer.

How odd then, you kept pressing me to give you an answer to that question after i said i was not qualified to render an opinion ????
so....what is the answer MD .....do tell

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:I know the answer.

I don't ask questions unless I already know the answer.

How odd then, you kept pressing me to give you an answer to that question after i said i was not qualified to render an opinion ????
so....what is the answer MD .....do tell

The information on how representation is increased in some groups and decreased in others is widely available. There's actually a court case in the Supreme Court filed by Asian citizens addressing it.

You can find it assuming you don't already know the answer and are simply being evasive.

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
How odd then, you kept pressing me to give you an answer to that question after i said i was not qualified to render an opinion ????
so....what is the answer MD .....do tell

The information on how representation is increased in some groups and decreased in others is widely available.  There's actually a court case in the Supreme Court filed by Asian citizens addressing it.

You can find it assuming you don't already know the answer and are simply being evasive.  

No i am not being evasive as i have said i am not qualified to render an opinion on what measures are or should be taken, to promote ensure or foster equal rights for ethnic minority's
Who historically are undeserved ,dismissd or treated differently from white people

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The information on how representation is increased in some groups and decreased in others is widely available.  There's actually a court case in the Supreme Court filed by Asian citizens addressing it.

You can find it assuming you don't already know the answer and are simply being evasive.  

No i am not being evasive as i have said i am not qualified to render an opinion on what measures are or should be taken, to promote ensure or foster equal rights for ethnic minority's
Who historically are undeserved ,dismissd or treated differently from white people

You don't realize that an Asian and a black person need vastly different test scores to achieve more representation by the latter and that's why we have court challenges to treating Asians and blacks very differently to achieve a more "balanced" representation?

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
No i am not being evasive as i have said i am not qualified to render an opinion on what measures are or should be taken, to promote ensure or foster equal rights for ethnic minority's
Who historically are undeserved ,dismissd or treated differently from white people

You don't realize that an Asian and a black person need vastly different test scores to achieve more representation by the latter and that's why we have court challenges to treating Asians and blacks very differently to achieve a more "balanced" representation?

er so what's your argument here Asians and blacks are not as smart ? or need to work harder to achieve the same result  ( i may have misunderstood)

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You don't realize that an Asian and a black person need vastly different test scores to achieve more representation by the latter and that's why we have court challenges to treating Asians and blacks very differently to achieve a more "balanced" representation?

er so what's your argument here Asians and blacks are not as smart ? or need to work harder to achieve the same result  ( i may have misunderstood)

You did misunderstand.

My contention is that it's unfair to judge blacks differently than Asians to achieve some sort of arbitrary balance.

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
er so what's your argument here Asians and blacks are not as smart ? or need to work harder to achieve the same result  ( i may have misunderstood)

You did misunderstand.

My contention is that it's unfair to judge blacks differently than Asians to achieve some sort of arbitrary balance.

I thought i had as you don't strike me as the type to do that, and i tend to agree it is unfair unfair to judge anybody on ethnic origin , but its not unfair to try and balance the real discrimination ethnic minority's face

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You did misunderstand.

My contention is that it's unfair to judge blacks differently than Asians to achieve some sort of arbitrary balance.

I thought i had as you don't strike me as the type to do that, and i tend to agree it is unfair unfair to judge anybody on ethnic origin , but its not unfair to try and balance the real discrimination ethnic minority's face  

Affirmative action judges people differently based on ethnicity. An Asian has to get much better grades than a black person to get into the same school.

That's what affirmative action does. Creates different rules for different people based on race...

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
I thought i had as you don't strike me as the type to do that, and i tend to agree it is unfair unfair to judge anybody on ethnic origin , but its not unfair to try and balance the real discrimination ethnic minority's face  

Affirmative action judges people differently based on ethnicity.  An Asian has to get much better grades than a black person to get into the same school.

That's what affirmative action does. Creates different rules for different people based on race...

Or ability to pay i believe that is also a problem and people have gone to prison in the US over the college"pay to play"culture of the rich
but to be fair your education system is not the most ...even handed shall we say

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Affirmative action judges people differently based on ethnicity.  An Asian has to get much better grades than a black person to get into the same school.

That's what affirmative action does. Creates different rules for different people based on race...

Or ability to pay i believe that is also a problem and people have gone to prison in the US over the college"pay to play"culture of the rich
but to be fair your education system is not the most ...even handed shall we say

The cost of education is important, but minimally so when it comes to affirmative action. As the Supreme Court has repeatedly said, affirmative action laws are remedial in nature. A remedial law is one that is compensatory.

Affirmative action focuses on a population, and not the individual. Where populations have been held back in education because of long-standing racial discrimination, they are given advantages today to compensate.

As Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, 438 U.S. 265 (1978) makes clear, it is only one of several factors in college admission policy. Thus, affirmative action only generally, not individually, operates to provide an advantage.

Being the beneficiary of a basically free education and white ,its not really a subject i am familiar with or have much Knowledge about and tend to trust the decisions made by people who are more versed in these issues

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Affirmative action judges people differently based on ethnicity.  An Asian has to get much better grades than a black person to get into the same school.

That's what affirmative action does. Creates different rules for different people based on race...

Or ability to pay i believe that is also a problem and people have gone to prison in the US over the college"pay to play"culture of the rich
but to be fair your education system is not the most ...even handed shall we say

Affirmative action has nothing to do with ability to pay.

It's about judging people different for admissions.

Korben wrote:Being the beneficiary of a basically free education and white ,its not really a subject i am familiar with or have much Knowledge about and tend to trust the decisions made by people who are more versed in these issues

Inform yourself.

Have Asians been discriminated against?

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:Being the beneficiary of a basically free education and white ,its not really a subject i am familiar with or have much Knowledge about and tend to trust the decisions made by people who are more versed in these issues

Inform yourself.

Why ? As i say i trust the people who do this sort of analysis and make recommendation based on data and experience
i try not to be a Armchair expert on subjects i know little about

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Inform yourself.

Why ? As i say i trust the people who do this sort of analysis and make recommendation based on data and experience
i try not to be a Armchair expert  on subjects i know little about

Using that as your guide, you would have supported concentration camps.

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
Or ability to pay i believe that is also a problem and people have gone to prison in the US over the college"pay to play"culture of the rich
but to be fair your education system is not the most ...even handed shall we say

Affirmative action has nothing to do with ability to pay.  

It's about judging people different for admissions.  

Nonsense. It's about remedies. Affirmative action doesn't detract, but adds to opportunity.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Affirmative action has nothing to do with ability to pay.  

It's about judging people different for admissions.  

Nonsense.  It's about remedies.  Affirmative action doesn't detract, but adds to opportunity.

Colleges have a finite amount of students. It's used to select one student in lieu of another.

The student not selected because of race has lost an opportunity.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nonsense.  It's about remedies.  Affirmative action doesn't detract, but adds to opportunity.

Colleges have a finite amount of students.  It's used to select one student in lieu of another.  

The student not selected because of race has lost an opportunity.

There's that zero-sum game you Jim Crow-types like so much. For every benefit affirmative action tries to confer, they treat that as a detriment on the accounting sheet.

It's their means of boot-strapping their way into victimhood. Slavery? Peonage? Separate-but-equal? Segregation? Black lives don't matter?

Well...what about our losses as a result of your attempts to help the disadvantaged? Gimme More...it isn't just a Britney Spears song.

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
Why ? As i say i trust the people who do this sort of analysis and make recommendation based on data and experience
i try not to be a Armchair expert  on subjects i know little about

Using that as your guide, you would have supported concentration camps.  

Fuck off thats just bullshit and nasty

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Using that as your guide, you would have supported concentration camps.  

Fuck off thats just bullshit and nasty

How is it nasty. The Brits invented the concentration camp and used them in S Africa against the Boers.

The point is, experts in government deemed them to be appropriate.

Thankfully people have progressed and people don't always trust those in power.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Colleges have a finite amount of students.  It's used to select one student in lieu of another.  

The student not selected because of race has lost an opportunity.

There's that zero-sum game you Jim Crow-types like so much.  For every benefit affirmative action tries to confer, they treat that as a detriment on the accounting sheet.

It's their means of boot-strapping their way into victimhood.  Slavery?  Peonage?  Separate-but-equal?  Segregation?  Black lives don't matter?  

Well...what about our losses as a result of your attempts to help the disadvantaged?  Gimme More...it isn't just a Britney Spears song.  

Nothing wrong with helping the disadvantaged.

It's all about how you do it

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:
Fuck off thats just bullshit and nasty

How is it nasty.  The Brits invented the concentration camp and used them in S Africa against the Boers.  

The point is, experts in government deemed them to be appropriate.

Thankfully people have progressed and people don't always trust those in power.  

There are three basic myths at play surrounding the 2nd Anglo Boer War (1899 – 1902) concentration camps.

   That Concentration Camps first came into existence during the 2nd Anglo-Boer War (1899-1902) and the British invented them.

   That Hitler modelled the Nazi concentration camp system on the British system used in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War.

   That it was the Boer women and children in South Africa who experienced the indignity and tragedy of a concentration camp system, with no thanks to the British.

The actual term ‘concentration camp’ was invented by the Spanish (as campo de concentración or campo de reconcentración) in 1896 – three years before the 2nd Anglo-Boer War (1899 – 1904) started.  It originated during The Cuban War of Independence (Guerra de Independencia cubana, 1895–98) was the last of three liberation wars that Cuba fought against Spain.

The second country to operate concentration camps was the United States of America in September 1899 in the Philippines.

you can read the rest here
https://samilhistory.com/2018/12/07/debunking-the-myth-that-the-british-invented-the-concentration-camp/

Saying i would support the idea was nasty i wouldn't say say "you" support segregation or slavery just because you are from the American south

secondly and more importantly to me is i am Scottish not "British" a distinction today with out much of a difference i grant you but a important one to many Scots

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

There's that zero-sum game you Jim Crow-types like so much.  For every benefit affirmative action tries to confer, they treat that as a detriment on the accounting sheet.

It's their means of boot-strapping their way into victimhood.  Slavery?  Peonage?  Separate-but-equal?  Segregation?  Black lives don't matter?  

Well...what about our losses as a result of your attempts to help the disadvantaged?  Gimme More...it isn't just a Britney Spears song.  

Nothing wrong with helping the disadvantaged.

It's all about how you do it

But that's discrimination according to you on this whole thread this is exactly what i and others are saying

Affirmative action exists because racism exists. It's a clumsy policy designed to counterbalance racism.

The truth is that in America, you can be a minority with the same qualifications as a white person and people will choose the white person for the job, for no better reason than that the white person is more familiar-looking to the boss.

Affirmative action/positive discrimination isn't a great policy by any means, it's simply the best idea so far for dealing with the fact that too many hiring and admissions decisions are made with race as a factor.

Korben wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Nothing wrong with helping the disadvantaged.

It's all about how you do it

But that's discrimination according to you on this whole thread this is exactly what i and others are saying  

No it's not. As long as you don't group the disadvantaged by race.

Ben Reilly wrote:Affirmative action exists because racism exists. It's a clumsy policy designed to counterbalance racism.

The truth is that in America, you can be a minority with the same qualifications as a white person and people will choose the white person for the job, for no better reason than that the white person is more familiar-looking to the boss.

Affirmative action/positive discrimination isn't a great policy by any means, it's simply the best idea so far for dealing with the fact that too many hiring and admissions decisions are made with race as a factor.

Why does affirmative action discriminate against Asians.

Are you saying they haven't experienced racism?

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Affirmative action exists because racism exists. It's a clumsy policy designed to counterbalance racism.

The truth is that in America, you can be a minority with the same qualifications as a white person and people will choose the white person for the job, for no better reason than that the white person is more familiar-looking to the boss.

Affirmative action/positive discrimination isn't a great policy by any means, it's simply the best idea so far for dealing with the fact that too many hiring and admissions decisions are made with race as a factor.

Why does affirmative action discriminate against Asians.

Affirmative action doesn't discriminate at all. It is additive, and to the benefit of all protected parties.

To say that AA discriminates against whites is more of the Jim Crow hoax, based on the characterization that all benefits are a zero-sum game. Everyone gets what they always got, but AA is additive and gives additional support to those deserving and in need.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Why does affirmative action discriminate against Asians.

Affirmative action doesn't discriminate at all.  It is additive, and to the benefit of all protected parties.

To say that AA discriminates against whites is more of the Jim Crow hoax, based on the characterization that all benefits are a zero-sum game.  Everyone gets what they always got, but AA is additive and gives additional support to those deserving and in need.

You don't know what the word discriminate means.