More than 100,000 left Republican Party after Capitol insurrection

by Ben Reilly Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:27 am

NYT:

In the days after the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, the phone lines and websites of local election officials across the country were jumping: Tens of thousands of Republicans were calling or logging on to switch their party affiliations.

In California, more than 33,000 registered Republicans left the party during the three weeks after the Washington riot. In Pennsylvania, more than 12,000 voters left the G.O.P. in the past month, and more than 10,000 Republicans changed their registration in Arizona.

An analysis of January voting records by The New York Times found that nearly 140,000 Republicans had quit the party in 25 states that had readily available data (19 states do not have registration by party). Voting experts said the data indicated a stronger-than-usual flight from a political party after a presidential election, as well as the potential start of a damaging period for G.O.P. registrations as voters recoil from the Capitol violence and its fallout.

Among those who recently left the party are Juan Nunez, 56, an Army veteran in Mechanicsburg, Pa. He said he had long felt that the difference between the United States and many other countries was that campaign-season fighting ended on Election Day, when all sides would peacefully accept the result. The Jan. 6 riot changed that, he said.

by Didgee Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:37 am

The politics in the US has become so toxic, that now the Republicans have swung further right and the Democrats have swung further left

What the US needs is anew party, one born from Liberalism, which neither the Republicans or Democrats represent

So I am not surprised a number of people have left the Republicans. All I see now is how social media and the main media on both sides whipping up hate against people for their political views

If people cannot see the danger here, then they need to read back on history

We see the likes of far right groups attack congress and Antifa daily attack the structure of US systems

If any person here is serious, they would look to build bridges between parties and look to further the interest of Americans. Instead of dividing them through identity politics

It was identity politics that led to Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, and the US is heading that same way again. As a fear is being whipped up into a frenzy by either side to hate the other

When will people learn?

by Didgee Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:52 am

Didgee wrote:The politics in the US has become so toxic, that now the Republicans have swung further right and the Democrats have swung further left

What the US needs is anew party, one born from Liberalism, which neither the Republicans or Democrats represent

So I am not surprised a number of people have left the Republicans. All I see now is how social media and the main media on both sides whipping up hate against people for their political views

If people cannot see the danger here, then they need to read back on history

We see the likes of far right groups attack congress and Antifa daily attack the structure of US systems

If any person here is serious, they would look to build bridges between parties and look to further the interest of Americans. Instead of dividing them through identity politics

It was identity politics that led to Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, and the US is heading that same way again. As a fear is being whipped up into a frenzy by either side to hate the other

When will people learn?

Psychologist, Jonathan Shedler sums this up best:

One of most important things I've learned:

Severe personality problems find *camouflage.* No one thinks "I'm a sadist" or "I'm a malignant narcissist."

They find a belief system/social group that validates their most hateful, destructive impulses & construes them as virtues.

The most toxic and hateful people in the world are 100% convinced they fight for what is true and right.

They find a way to give free rein to their cruelty, to attack, to treat others cruelly and viciously. *And they find allies to cheer them on* who also believe they are on the side of all that is true and good.

For colleagues looking for more theoretical explanation, the psychological processes are splitting, projection & projective identification. Splitting means not recognizing one's own capacity for hate, cruelty, and destructiveness. The person is blind to the bad in themselves.

Instead, they project the badness onto some designated other. And this other person, via the defense of projection, is now seen as the repository of all that is bad and evil and necessary to destroy. That's the projection.

The person now feels fully justified in unleashing heir viciousness and hate on the other person, who is now seen (via projection) as someone monstrous who must be destroyed at all cost. If the person who is projected on attempts to protect or defend themselves, this is now seen as further confirmation of how hateful and evil they are (this is what is called is "projective identification.") The end result is that the person can deny their own sadism, cruelty, and hate—while simultaneously acting it out without restraint. And feel themselves to be 100% on the side of truth and right as they do it.

by Maddog Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:21 pm

We haven't registered in Texas in years. The number of people who don't identify as either a Dem or Rep continues to grow. Yet those two parties get about 97% of the vote anyway.

by Original Quill Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:01 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:NYT:

In the days after the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, the phone lines and websites of local election officials across the country were jumping: Tens of thousands of Republicans were calling or logging on to switch their party affiliations.

In California, more than 33,000 registered Republicans left the party during the three weeks after the Washington riot. In Pennsylvania, more than 12,000 voters left the G.O.P. in the past month, and more than 10,000 Republicans changed their registration in Arizona.

An analysis of January voting records by The New York Times found that nearly 140,000 Republicans had quit the party in 25 states that had readily available data (19 states do not have registration by party). Voting experts said the data indicated a stronger-than-usual flight from a political party after a presidential election, as well as the potential start of a damaging period for G.O.P. registrations as voters recoil from the Capitol violence and its fallout.

Among those who recently left the party are Juan Nunez, 56, an Army veteran in Mechanicsburg, Pa. He said he had long felt that the difference between the United States and many other countries was that campaign-season fighting ended on Election Day, when all sides would peacefully accept the result. The Jan. 6 riot changed that, he said.

Unfortunately, that's just a negative vote on Trump. The Republicans are defunct, yes, but the Democrats are not far behind.

People voted strongly against Trump out of revulsion at his attempts to establish an authoritarian dictatorship—decidedly a no-no in American politics. Yet, there has been long-standing disquiet with the Democrats as well. It stems from Democrats’ habit of appeasement, and obsequiousness in the face of adversity. They have acquired the nickname of snowflakes, for their unwillingness to stand up to opposition.

People want to see strength and conviction in their leaders, which heretofore they have found with Republicanism. The problem with Republicans is that they have no core ideology, as evidenced by the ease with which they were taken over by Trump (with Russian help, no less). See, F.A. Hayek, Why I’m Not a Conservative (1988) https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/articles/hayek-why-i-am-not-conservative.pdf The default order for Republicans is selfishness, and so all we see are tax-cuts, austerity and limited government.

But, while Republicans stand for nothing, Democrats won’t stand up for anything. Democrats are trying to pass the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, and not a single Republican in the Senate will support it. American deaths are at genocide proportions, yet Republicans are siding with the status quo, apparently cheering. More to the point, here Americans have an abject crisis on their hands, yet the Democrats still are playing patty-cake with the (Republican) villains—who would wish nothing more than to see another half-million Americans die.

America is ready for an entirely new cast of characters…on both sides.

by Ben Reilly Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:28 pm

I disagree that the Democrats are moving further to the left, actually. The current administration isn't willing to fight for universal health care or any sort of permanent social safety net.

Living in the UK, one of the more right-leaning European countries, I can tell you that it's still far to the left of the Democratic Party.

In the UK, you can't be evicted or have your electric turned off if you have children in the house. You can't be fired on the spot, and there are no charges to have a bank account or to transfer money from one bank account to another, none of which is the case in the U.S. I don't see the Biden administration tackling any of that.

by Ben Reilly Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:21 am

Maddog wrote:We haven't registered in Texas in years. The number of people who don't identify as either a Dem or Rep continues to grow. Yet those two parties get about 97% of the vote anyway.

McConaughey for Governor!

by Maddog Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:23 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:We haven't registered in Texas in years. The number of people who don't identify as either a Dem or Rep continues to grow. Yet those two parties get about 97% of the vote anyway.

McConaughey for Governor!

He could probably win. I guess he would run as a Dem, or would he try to pull a Jesse Ventura and go independent?

Be cool if he was a Libertarian, but I don't think that's his political bent.

by Maddog Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:25 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I disagree that the Democrats are moving further to the left, actually. The current administration isn't willing to fight for universal health care or any sort of permanent social safety net.

Living in the UK, one of the more right-leaning European countries, I can tell you that it's still far to the left of the Democratic Party.

In the UK, you can't be evicted or have your electric turned off if you have children in the house. You can't be fired on the spot, and there are no charges to have a bank account or to transfer money from one bank account to another, none of which is the case in the U.S. I don't see the Biden administration tackling any of that.

Biden has moved considerably during the past 20 years and there are far more to the left of him than there used to be.

by Ben Reilly Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:32 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:We haven't registered in Texas in years. The number of people who don't identify as either a Dem or Rep continues to grow. Yet those two parties get about 97% of the vote anyway.

McConaughey for Governor!

He could probably win. I guess he would run as a Dem, or would he try to pull a Jesse Ventura and go independent?

Be cool if he was a Libertarian, but I don't think that's his political bent.

I don't know, playing bongos naked while smoking weed sounds pretty libertarian to me. But I think he'd do best as an independent.

by Ben Reilly Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:34 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I disagree that the Democrats are moving further to the left, actually. The current administration isn't willing to fight for universal health care or any sort of permanent social safety net.

Living in the UK, one of the more right-leaning European countries, I can tell you that it's still far to the left of the Democratic Party.

In the UK, you can't be evicted or have your electric turned off if you have children in the house. You can't be fired on the spot, and there are no charges to have a bank account or to transfer money from one bank account to another, none of which is the case in the U.S. I don't see the Biden administration tackling any of that.

Biden has moved considerably during the past 20 years and there are far more to the left of him than there used to be.

Good, but don't count on that meaning too much in terms of America becoming a more compassionate country that does a better job looking out for its people any time soon.

by Original Quill Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I disagree that the Democrats are moving further to the left, actually. The current administration isn't willing to fight for universal health care or any sort of permanent social safety net.

Living in the UK, one of the more right-leaning European countries, I can tell you that it's still far to the left of the Democratic Party.

In the UK, you can't be evicted or have your electric turned off if you have children in the house. You can't be fired on the spot, and there are no charges to have a bank account or to transfer money from one bank account to another, none of which is the case in the U.S. I don't see the Biden administration tackling any of that.

Are you talking about Democrats out across the nation, or the professionals who work in Washington? As you know, the Democratic politicos have lost touch with their base. The median base is about +20 left, while the politicos are about +3 left.

Other than kicking Trump out, and the obvious patching up after the pandemic (vaccinations and the American Rescue Plan Act), Washingtonian Democrats haven't got much more on the table. Oh, there's the Infrastructure Bill, but Senator Joe Manchin will scratch that as too expensive. Incidentally, Manchin will also oppose any Senate rules changes, so we are stuck with the filibuster rule, allowing Republicans a veto on any progressive legislation. When the pandemic is settled, Washingtonian Democrats will settle in with the status quo.

The rest of the Democratic base is far from satisfied, and will continue to support programs that the politicos will not support. Just like Republicans during the GWB administration, the Democratic base will slide out from under the Democratic Washingtonians, and we'll see a party realignment. I wouldn't mind seeing a reinvigorated Progressive Party, which ironically grew out of the LW of the Republican Party. While Republicans have moved far, far to the right, Progressives remain out there on the LW and available for the taking.

by Maddog Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:54 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Biden has moved considerably during the past 20 years and there are far more to the left of him than there used to be.

Good, but don't count on that meaning too much in terms of America becoming a more compassionate country that does a better job looking out for its people any time soon.

America isn't the same as its government.

And doing things for people isn't always looking out for them.

I think someone around here has a signature that addresses that fallacy.

by Ben Reilly Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:22 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Biden has moved considerably during the past 20 years and there are far more to the left of him than there used to be.

Good, but don't count on that meaning too much in terms of America becoming a more compassionate country that does a better job looking out for its people any time soon.

America isn't the same as its government.

And doing things for people isn't always looking out for them.

I think someone around here has a signature that addresses that fallacy.

So giving money to people who have no means of earning it isn't actually in their best interest.

Fuck off.

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:19 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

America isn't the same as its government.

And doing things for people isn't always looking out for them.

I think someone around here has a signature that addresses that fallacy.

So giving money to people who have no means of earning it isn't actually in their best interest.

Fuck off.

Oh, I'm cool with taking care of the children, elderly and handicapped.

But even then, there are ways to do that without forcing others to participate.

by Original Quill Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:48 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

America isn't the same as its government.

And doing things for people isn't always looking out for them.

I think someone around here has a signature that addresses that fallacy.

So giving money to people who have no means of earning it isn't actually in their best interest.

Fuck off.

It's the slavery mentality that you see among southerners, particularly newly-minted Republican southerners. Keeping the underdogs suppressed—a pattern with which southerners are familiar—is a way of 1) taking advantage of them; and 2) enhancing one's own status.

by Original Quill Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:50 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

So giving money to people who have no means of earning it isn't actually in their best interest.

Fuck off.

Oh, I'm cool with taking care of the children, elderly and handicapped.

But even then, there are ways to do that without forcing others to participate.

...yes, put them in cages and forget about them. Cool

by Maddog Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Oh, I'm cool with taking care of the children, elderly and handicapped.

But even then, there are ways to do that without forcing others to participate.

...yes, put them in cages and forget about them.

That would violate the NAP.

I'm very anti cage.

by Ben Reilly Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:14 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

America isn't the same as its government.

And doing things for people isn't always looking out for them.

I think someone around here has a signature that addresses that fallacy.

If you don't want to participate in a society you can fuck off to the Sahara or one of the poles.

So giving money to people who have no means of earning it isn't actually in their best interest.

Fuck off.

Oh, I'm cool with taking care of the children, elderly and handicapped.

But even then, there are ways to do that without forcing others to participate.

by JulesV Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:52 am

Only yesterday I was reading a MSN news article about Stacey Dash, the ex Fox new presenter who was very vocal in her support for all things Trumpian - pro guns, pro the wall, pro life, pro climate violator ... blah blah. Mad bitch! Rolling Eyes

Now she has suddenly declared that she no longer supports him.
It's easy to desert a sinking ship and criticise someone after their power wanes, hon. Any fool can do that!

There's more honour and integrity in speaking out against people while they are still powerful. Waiting till they are out of office before speaking, is pure cowardice.

by Ben Reilly Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:59 pm

JulesV wrote:Only yesterday I was reading a MSN news article about Stacey Dash, the ex Fox new presenter who was very vocal in her support for all things Trumpian - pro guns, pro the wall, pro life, pro climate violator ... blah blah. Mad bitch!

Now she has suddenly declared that she no longer supports him.
It's easy to desert a sinking ship and criticise someone after their power wanes, hon. Any fool can do that!

There's more honour and integrity in speaking out against people while they are still powerful. Waiting till they are out of office before speaking, is pure cowardice.

A bit off topic, but the weirdest thing I've heard from Trump supporters -- or I suppose, ex-Trump supporters -- is when CNN went to talk to a group of people who'd voted for Trump both times about how Trump was now recommending that people get the Covid vaccine.

They roundly rejected their former leader's advice and one even said, "I don't trust him, he's a liberal from New York City."

!!!!!

by Maddog Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:51 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
JulesV wrote:Only yesterday I was reading a MSN news article about Stacey Dash, the ex Fox new presenter who was very vocal in her support for all things Trumpian - pro guns, pro the wall, pro life, pro climate violator ... blah blah. Mad bitch!

Now she has suddenly declared that she no longer supports him.
It's easy to desert a sinking ship and criticise someone after their power wanes, hon. Any fool can do that!

There's more honour and integrity in speaking out against people while they are still powerful. Waiting till they are out of office before speaking, is pure cowardice.

A bit off topic, but the weirdest thing I've heard from Trump supporters -- or I suppose, ex-Trump supporters -- is when CNN went to talk to a group of people who'd voted for Trump both times about how Trump was now recommending that people get the Covid vaccine.

They roundly rejected their former leader's advice and one even said, "I don't trust him, he's a liberal from New York City."

!!!!!

Well, they are sorta right, even if they are hypocrites.

by JulesV Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:34 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
JulesV wrote:Only yesterday I was reading a MSN news article about Stacey Dash, the ex Fox new presenter who was very vocal in her support for all things Trumpian - pro guns, pro the wall, pro life, pro climate violator ... blah blah. Mad bitch!

Now she has suddenly declared that she no longer supports him.
It's easy to desert a sinking ship and criticise someone after their power wanes, hon. Any fool can do that!

There's more honour and integrity in speaking out against people while they are still powerful. Waiting till they are out of office before speaking, is pure cowardice.

A bit off topic, but the weirdest thing I've heard from Trump supporters -- or I suppose, ex-Trump supporters -- is when CNN went to talk to a group of people who'd voted for Trump both times about how Trump was now recommending that people get the Covid vaccine.

They roundly rejected their former leader's advice and one even said,

"I don't trust him, he's a liberal from New York City."!!!!!

Lolol Ben, so you hear a loud bang & you glance at the ironymeter in the far corner - and all you can see are nuts, bolts, scraps of metal ...... and bits of coiled spring still vibrating. More than 100,000 left Republican Party after Capitol insurrection 3489511464

More than 100,000 left Republican Party after Capitol insurrection 3489511464

by Original Quill Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:00 pm

JulesV wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

A bit off topic, but the weirdest thing I've heard from Trump supporters -- or I suppose, ex-Trump supporters -- is when CNN went to talk to a group of people who'd voted for Trump both times about how Trump was now recommending that people get the Covid vaccine.

They roundly rejected their former leader's advice and one even said,

"I don't trust him, he's a liberal from New York City."!!!!!
Lolol Ben, so you hear a loud bang & you glance at the ironymeter in the far corner - and all you can see are nuts, bolts, scraps of metal ...... and bits of coiled spring still vibrating.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. It's reduction of cognitive dissonance. They are southerners who, being southerners, did something stupid. When you find you did something stupid, you reverse engineer your reasoning to bring it up to date with your present position. See, "I'm a hypocrite, but so is everyone else: Group support and the reduction of cognitive dissonance," APA PsyNet, Group Dynamics: Theory, Research, and Practice, 7(3), 214–224. https://doi.org/10.1037/1089-2699.7.3.214. When Trump disappoints, you reconstruct your past reasoning to say, I never trusted 'im cause he's from New York City!

What CNN caught, Ben, was a southerner in transition. More than 100,000 left Republican Party after Capitol insurrection 3489511464

by JulesV Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
JulesV wrote:
Lolol Ben, so you hear a loud bang & you glance at the ironymeter in the far corner - and all you can see are nuts, bolts, scraps of metal ...... and bits of coiled spring still vibrating.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. It's reduction of cognitive dissonance.

They are southerners who, being southerners, did something stupid. When you find you did something stupid, you reverse engineer your reasoning to bring it up to date with your present position. See, "I'm a hypocrite, but so is everyone else: Group support and the reduction of cognitive dissonance," APA PsyNet, Group Dynamics: Theory, Research, and Practice, 7(3), 214–224. https://doi.org/10.1037/1089-2699.7.3.214. When Trump disappoints, you reconstruct your past reasoning to say, I never trusted 'im cause he's from New York City!

What CNN caught, Ben, was a southerner in transition.

Simple God fearing folk who think the donald is the messiah, do not let the facts get in their way, let alone irony, cognitive dissonance etc.

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