Tories told not to sign pledges on the NHS and climate change

Because If they get elected they will ignore their pre election promises.

Don’t sign pledges on NHS or climate, Tory HQ tells candidates

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/05/dont-sign-pledges-on-nhs-or-climate-tory-hq-tells-candidates?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

The same as all the other Parties ,what's different about Labour !

Former PM Sir John Major says the The NHS is as safe with his Tory colleagues as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python:
"The concept that the people running the Brexit campaign would care for the National Health Service is a rather odd one.
I seem to remember Michael Gove wanted to privatise it; Boris wanted to charge people for using it and Iain Duncan Smith wanted a social insurance system.
The NHS is as about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python."

#SaveourNHS #OurNHS #ShareThis #GeneralElection2019

It is in fact EU procurement rules that force tax payer funded govt/council run public services to be opened up to the private sector to be able to bid for contracts to run large swathes of it all!!!


This is why we have so many private companies like SERCO/CAPITA/G4S/AXIS involved increasingly in the running (very expensively and very badly) of so many parts of it all...!


From prisons to dustbin collections and rubbish management, CAPITA are running unemployment/housing benefit processing centres, and AXIS are involved in running a lot of the building works/maintenance of taxpayer funded offices and services eg council offices and the met police stations as well as many other taxpayer funded building projects...


And before some brain dead lefty (Andy) pops up blaming the torys for it all... I must reiterate the fact that this is nothing new... has not only happened since the torys and fib dems got into govt in 2010... this has been going on in a massive way under the labour govt 1997-2010 too!!!


You don't have to take my word for it... do your own research into these companies and a few others that I haven't mentioned, and see for yourself...!!!


Also... do a bit of research into 'eu procurement rules' and what they mean with regards to uk public taxpayer funded services being forced to open up to the running of sections of it to private companies to be able to bid for tenders and contracts to take over the running of them...!?

+1

There is common belief that young people tend to be idealists and therefore liberal, while as you get older you move to the Right as you become more realistic (there's a Churchill quote that sums this up).

I'd like to ammend it.

Youth is unspoilt and strives for fairness.
As some get older they become self-concerned and therefore conservative.
But once some get really old they refind some of their old idealism and want to fight for it - that would certainly explain some of the things said by Heseltine, Major and Clarke in recent times. Not to mention the political evolution of John Bercow.

Refind idealism? I never left.

Original Quill wrote:Refind idealism?  I never left.

Me neither, but it is sadly a common phenomenon.

Eilzel wrote:There is common belief that young people tend to be idealists and therefore liberal, while as you get older you move to the Right as you become more realistic (there's a Churchill quote that sums this up).

I'd like to ammend it.

Youth is unspoilt and strives for fairness.
As some get older they become self-concerned and therefore conservative.
But once some get really old they refind some of their old idealism and want to fight for it - that would certainly explain some of the things said by Heseltine, Major and Clarke in recent times. Not to mention the political evolution of John Bercow.

I will challenge the above
Youth has an underdeveloped brain until 25 and more prone to emotional reasoning
Hence far more easily led by passionate beliefs and brainwashing
The emotional brainn takes over from the rational one
As people get older they are less controlled by the emotional side of their brains
The only difference as people get older, is they are less likely to like change, as they would if as younger

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:There is common belief that young people tend to be idealists and therefore liberal, while as you get older you move to the Right as you become more realistic (there's a Churchill quote that sums this up).

I'd like to ammend it.

Youth is unspoilt and strives for fairness.
As some get older they become self-concerned and therefore conservative.
But once some get really old they refind some of their old idealism and want to fight for it - that would certainly explain some of the things said by Heseltine, Major and Clarke in recent times. Not to mention the political evolution of John Bercow.

I will challenge the above
Youth has an underdeveloped brain until 25 and more prone to emotional reasoning
Hence far more easily led by passionate beliefs and brainwashing
The emotional brainn takes over from the rational one
As people get older they are less controlled by the emotional side of their brains
The only difference as people get older, is they are less likely to like change, as they would if as younger

Fair play that, didgey

In any case, not everyone even goes through this 'process' in any case, so I guess we're both being a little playful.

Referring back to the OP though, if a former Tory leader is saying the NHS isn't safe with the current party, then it is worth taking note imo. I think Johnson, Gove et al are being very shady with regards to their US trade deal, the NHS and worker's rights, plus their back pedaling on fracking last week. They are clearly hoping to coast to victory in this election, and that's very dangerous.

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I will challenge the above
Youth has an underdeveloped brain until 25 and more prone to emotional reasoning
Hence far more easily led by passionate beliefs and brainwashing
The emotional brainn takes over from the rational one
As people get older they are less controlled by the emotional side of their brains
The only difference as people get older, is they are less likely to like change, as they would if as younger

Fair play that, didgey

In any case, not everyone even goes through this 'process' in any case, so I guess we're both being a little playful.

Referring back to the OP though, if a former Tory leader is saying the NHS isn't safe with the current party, then it is worth taking note imo. I think Johnson, Gove et al are being very shady with regards to their US trade deal, the NHS and worker's rights, plus their back pedaling on fracking last week. They are clearly hoping to coast to victory in this election, and that's very dangerous.

First of all I already think the NHS is unworkable in its current situation and needs radical changes.
More in tune to a system that does for other countries and is still free on the point entry.

Which ex-Tory leader are we talking about?

I did not see one in the link

So I am unconcerned over the safety of the NHS, as I believe it requires radical change

If your point is based on maintaining the service as free on the point of entry.

Then yes that should be safeguarded.

Hence why I think signing a declaration is foolhardy, when the NHS is in need desperately of change.

Have a declaration on the free part and I would agree

Major.

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I will challenge the above
Youth has an underdeveloped brain until 25 and more prone to emotional reasoning
Hence far more easily led by passionate beliefs and brainwashing
The emotional brainn takes over from the rational one
As people get older they are less controlled by the emotional side of their brains
The only difference as people get older, is they are less likely to like change, as they would if as younger

Fair play that, didgey

In any case, not everyone even goes through this 'process' in any case, so I guess we're both being a little playful.

Referring back to the OP though, if a former Tory leader is saying the NHS isn't safe with the current party, then it is worth taking note imo. I think Johnson, Gove et al are being very shady with regards to their US trade deal, the NHS and worker's rights, plus their back pedaling on fracking last week. They are clearly hoping to coast to victory in this election, and that's very dangerous.

First of all I already think the NHS is unworkable in its current situation and needs radical changes.
More in tune to a system that does for other countries and is still free on the point entry.

Which ex-Tory leader are we talking about?

I did not see one in the link

So I am unconcerned over the safety of the NHS, as I believe it requires radical change

If your point is based on maintaining the service as free on the point of entry.

Then yes that should be safeguarded.

Hence why I think signing a declaration is foolhardy, when the NHS is in need desperately of change.

Have a declaration on the free part and I would agree

Sorry, the Major quote came later, but I have read it before.

I think allowing privatisation of the NHS is bad in both the short and long term. I'm aware it started with Labour and condemn them for it too. The further we go with it the more at risk the 'free at the point of entry' stance is. Eventually that could be forced to change, and while that might be speculation, it would be wise imo to keep us as far from ever reaching that breaking point as possible.

It should be "free at the point of entry" for British Citizens only, All others should pay before treatment except for emergences !

nicko wrote:It should be "free at the point of entry" for British Citizens only, All others should pay before treatment except for emergences !

I have never argued against that stance, my issue is that Boris, Gove, Farage have in the past been strong advocates for the privatization of the profitable parts of the NHS, and the implementation of compulsory private health insurance.
Fine if you have money. Not great if you are poor.
Ask any American. Ben, Quill, Maddog will happily give you an opinion.

But LABOUR want free treatment for all, including all the immigrants they want to let in. How do you feel about that ?

Nicko, andy hast got anything, never had anything and never will have anything, so he doesnt care, all he is interested in is making sure YOU dont have anything too

its the lefty race to the bottom

I understand your paranoia, that comes with the territory when you support a party that used to be centre right, but is now aligning itself to the right of the Brexit party and closely matching UKIP..
So many centre ground conservatives have either been sacked , changed to other parties or won't stand again, 1 of 2 things will happen

A far right Tory government will get elected. , the God help us all.
or, Voters will wise up, and vote for one of the more moderate parties..
My gut feeling is The rw Tories will share the 50% vote with the Brexit party about 30/20, allowing a small , possibly hung Labour party in, assisted but not in coalition with the SNP and the Lib dems.
12Dec is a chance to halt the rise of the far right.

I asked about how you felt about Labour letting in untold numbers of immigrants who will swamp the NHS ,? You never answered ,perhaps you'll answer now and don't dodge the question with more waffle !

Perhaps if you stuck to the thread topic rather than trying to deflect it away due to.it being an embarrassment for the tory party, you might get better answers.
I have no idea what Labour have planned, any more than know what what Johnson has planned if he gets elected.

Your dodging again Andy, answer the question , you can't without embarrassing the Labour Party [and yourself] !

Andy's run away ,again !

Unless the NHS embraces private sector capital and expertise in the ancillary and support services where it has, so say the least, a limited capability, it will collapse within a decade.

The demands upon it are now so great - and increasing year on year - that no matter how much taxpayers' money is thrown at it, it will never be enough.

The problem with the Left wing argument that it should not only be available to all UK residents in accordance with their needs but also to "health tourists" and the many illegal immigrants whose highest priority is to gain as much from our generosity as possible while paying as few dues as possible in return, is that the ones who are demanding the most from the NHS are also the ones demanding that others should pay for it.