Academic and Political Elitism

Amir Attaran, a professor of law and medicine at the University of Ottawa, recently set off a social media firestorm by describing Conservatives as the “party of the uneducated.”

Facing backlash, Attaran subsequently denied affiliation with any political party and claimed to be merely conveying what the “data” says. Yet his remarks were clearly intended as disparaging. Their implication: Conservatives are less rational or informed than other voters. As if to alleviate any doubt about this subtext, Attaran went on to state that the lack of education among these voters is why conservative governments offer “numbskull policy,” even as he condescendingly dismissed critics as “unintelligent.”

Attaran was speaking to the political milieu of Canada. But a similar partisan education gap exists between Republicans and Democrats in the United States -- and similar sentiments often prevail among the left-leaning American intelligentsia toward conservative-leaning voters.

Throughout the 2016 election cycle (beginning in the primaries), pundits and analysts seized on the apparent “diploma divide” between those who supported Trump and those who did not. This trend continued through the recent 2018 midterms. A subtext running through many of these essays (sometimes even an explicit theme) is that the consolidation of support among degree holders for the DNC is somehow proof that Democrats’ political preferences are more intelligent, informed, rational or effective than those of the opposition. As comedian Stephen Colbert once put it, “Reality has a well-known liberal bias.”

Maybe it does. But despite the reality that social psychological literature also has a well-known liberal bias, it nonetheless throws cold water on the idea that a constituency’s education level suggests anything about the wisdom of a political party’s policies or platform.

Mixed Blessings

For many people, it is intuitive and comforting to believe that while the political preferences of others may be driven primarily by prejudices, emotions, superstition, dogma and ignorance, the positions of well-educated or highly intelligent voters are shaped by logic and “the facts.” We make decisions based on a careful consideration of the issues; we would readily change our minds if the facts were not “on our side” or as the relevant circumstances evolved. The faith that education produces just these kinds of citizens has been baked into the project of modern universities from the outset.

Yet the cognitive and behavioral science literature suggests that those who are highly educated, intelligent or rhetorically skilled tend to be significantly less likely than most to revise their beliefs or adjust their positions when confronted with evidence or arguments that contradict their priors. This is because, in virtue of knowing more about the world, or being better at arguing, they are better equipped to punch holes in data or arguments that contradict their prior views or to otherwise make excuses for “sticking to their guns” regardless. And so, they do.

Indeed, research suggests that people with highly refined critical capacities often deploy them to scrutinize others. Hence, those with higher education levels and academic aptitude (college GPA) tend to be less attuned than most to ambiguity, complexity, uncertainty and limitations in their own knowledge -- and less prone to innovative or creative thinking.

Although highly educated people tend to be more politically engaged on average, their involvement is also much less likely to be oriented toward pragmatic ends. Instead, those with high levels of education gravitate toward “political hobbyism” and “expressive voting” -- that is, engaging in political research, discourse and participation for the purposes of self-aggrandizement, entertainment, validating one’s identity and views, and so forth.

According to Mark R. Joslyn and Donald P. Haider-Markel in “Who Knows Best? Education, Partisanship and Contested Facts,” those who are highly educated tend to be more politically partisan than most. They are also significantly more likely to conform their evaluations of historical or present circumstances to fit the messaging of party elites. In fact, as compared to the general public, cognitively sophisticated voters are much more likely to form their positions on issues, or even change their positions on issues, based on partisan cues of what they are “supposed” to think in virtue of their identity as Democrats, Republicans, etc. People tend to grow more politically polarized as their scientific literacy, numeracy or reflectiveness increases, and evoking scientific studies or statistics in the context of sociopolitical arguments tends to polarize people even further.

By virtue of their tendencies toward political hobbyism, highly educated people tend to follow political horse races much more closely than the general public and are often much better versed with respect to contemporary political gossip, dramas or scandals. Yet they tend to be little more informed than most with regards to more substantive facts -- often lacking even rudimentary knowledge about civic institutions and processes. In fact, research suggests that highly educated people tend to be less self-aware of their own sociopolitical preferences than most people -- typically describing themselves as more left wing than they actually seem to be. They also tend to be significantly worse at gauging others’ political beliefs, often assuming other people are much more extreme or dogmatic than they actually seem to be.

That is perhaps because studies show that, compared to the general public, highly educated or intelligent people tend to be more ideological in their thinking, more ideologically rigid and more extreme in their ideological leanings. Highly educated and intelligent people are also more likely to grow obsessed with some moral or political cause. Research suggests that they are more likely to overreact to small shocks, challenges or slights. Other studies have found that, while they are less likely to be prejudiced against others on the basis of things like race, they tend to be more prejudiced than most against those who seem to think differently than they do -- and often look down on those with less education.

In short, many of the biases and distortions to which all people are susceptible seem to be even more pronounced among those who are highly educated or intelligent.

Given such realities, it is far from clear that the consolidation of America’s educated class into a single political party would actually prove to be a boon for that party, its platform or its decision making. Indeed, history from the United States and abroad is replete with examples of grievous harm caused by well-intentioned technocrats and ideologues when they grow insufficiently accountable to ordinary folk.

In other words, while the growing diploma divide along partisan lines may tell us many things about the trajectory of America society and culture, it does not prove -- or even suggest -- that one party’s political platform and priorities are any more rational, informed or effective than another’s. If it is the case that Democrats’ positions are more ethical or practically effective than those of their rivals, that would be incidental to (perhaps even despite) partisan differences in constituents’ average education levels.

Consider: up until the 2012 elections, Republicans tended to have a larger share of college-educated voters than Democrats (an effect that was even more pronounced among white voters). Most of us on the left did not take this as evidence that Republican policies were consistently more ethical and well grounded than those of Democrats. Instead, many interpreted these trends as a sign that the Republicans were the party of elites, while Democrats were the party of “the people.”

Yet now that the educated class has shifted their allegiance, condescension and elitism have become increasingly vogue on the left, while “populism” has become something of a dirty word.

Academics and Elitism

Many branded Attaran’s remarks, disparaging the uneducated and their preferred political party, as “elitist.” He has attempted to dismiss this charge on the grounds that he is a son of immigrants and therefore (in his mind) must not be an “elite.” Yet the average income for full-time faculty member at the University of Ottawa, according to Glassdoor, is roughly $138,000 -- about twice Canada’s median household income. Given the specific departments he is affiliated with (law and medicine), Attaran’s salary probably puts him into the top 10 percent of Canadian income earners. It is hard to see how this does not qualify as elite.

In the United States, similar dynamics hold. The median income for postsecondary teachers is roughly $78,000. That is well above the overall median household income in the country. The typical American professor falls solidly into the uppermost quintile of income earners; many are well into the top 10 percent (earning $118,000 or higher). Yet relatively few academics actually seem to recognize themselves as social elites.

Instead, as Rachel Sherman noted in Uneasy Street (Princeton University Press), her study of affluent New Yorkers, or as Richard Reeves pointed out in his book Dream Hoarders (Brookings Institution Press), many relatively well-off Americans mischaracterize themselves as “middle class” -- especially those who are not born into wealth. This lack of self-awareness among many academics about their socioeconomic and cultural position, and their frequent elitist tendencies, is far from harmless.

Indeed, while those with college degrees may increasingly lean Democrat -- and the number of degree holders has increased in recent years -- only about a third of Americans possess a bachelor’s degree, let alone an advanced degree. And those voters tend to be geographically concentrated in areas of the country that already skew decisively blue. As a result, even if the diploma gap continues to expand, and the number of degree holders continues to climb, Democratic gains from these trends may be minimal with regard to congressional seats or national races. They could even suffer at the ballot box if they lose touch in the process with less educated voters -- who are more broadly distributed throughout the country, and twice as plentiful as degree holders.

Finally, it’s worth emphasizing that people typically disinvest from institutions that they are not reflected in. As education becomes increasingly associated with allegiance to the left, incentives to slash university funding will grow even stronger among right-leaning politicians. Already, experts -- and the institutions that produce them (universities) -- are widely perceived as having a political agenda that is out of step with the will and interests of the general public. As the diploma divide continues to expand, and inequality continues to rise, right-aligned populists will be able to seize and maintain power even more easily by exploiting the growing mistrust of elites. It is incumbent upon us to avoid exacerbating those dynamics.

It may be emotionally satisfying for academics and intellectuals to disparage or patronize the less educated and their political allegiances, but this condescension is unearned. The political leanings of highly educated or intelligent people tend not to be any more rational or informed than anyone else’s. Putting on a pretense of superiority is likely to blow up in our faces.


https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2019/08/27/academe-should-avoid-politicizing-educational-attainment-opinion

Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

Ben Reilly wrote:Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

They're defensive. Let 'em squeal.

Ben Reilly wrote:Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

That's because conservatives are very good at pointing at foreigners and different people and telling the working class and poor that their problems are cause of those other people.

Is is not amasing that the three regressive lefties turn this around from a problem of the democrats to blame someone else? Using whataboutism.

They then wonder why people are becoming sick to death of the regressive left and that Europe is lurching further and further right.

Go figure

+1

Ben Reilly wrote:Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

Read my signature.

Eilzel wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

That's because conservatives are very good at pointing at foreigners and different people and telling the working class and poor that their problems are cause of those other people.

The left knows how to point fingers too. They have their targets. And as your point suggests they think they are better at helping people, which is part of their problem.

Ben Reilly wrote:Democrats have always been accused of being elitist despite consistently favoring policies that would help those who are in no way elite in life.

While Republicans escape the elitist label, while favoring policies that only serve the wealthy elite.

That's always struck me as being really unfair, among other things.

It's not whataboutism, because the point of whataboutism is to use hypocrisy to go off point. This is directly on-point.

I don't think Republicans escape elitism, so much as they are the background of elitism. Their whole premise is to 'be better than thou'. That's the notion of capitalism.

What they are trying to say is to rise up and help the less fortunate, as Democrats do, is elitism. But there's a difference between being good, and doing good. Democrats use their achievements to help others, Republicans use their achievements to help themselves.

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

That's because conservatives are very good at pointing at foreigners and different people and telling the working class and poor that their problems are cause of those other people.

The left knows how to point fingers too. They have their targets. And as your point suggests they think they are better at helping people, which is part of their problem.  

The left as seen by this thread seem to think they are infallible.

Not seen a single post actually addressed the points of the article yet and the reason why from the left?

They believe they are infallible and can do no wrong.

Which is the problem, which the article is elluding to this snobbish elitist stance. Which as seen is going to in the end come and bite them in the arse politically.

One thing is for sure, the left fail to see and recognise problems within their own beliefs and attitudes.

+1

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The left knows how to point fingers too. They have their targets. And as your point suggests they think they are better at helping people, which is part of their problem.  

The left as seen by this thread seem to think they are infallible.

Not seen a single post actually addressed the points of the article yet and the reason why from the left?

They believe they are infallible and can do no wrong.

Which is the problem, which the article is elluding to this snobbish elitist stance. Which as seen is going to in the end come and bite them in the arse politically.

One thing is for sure, the left fail to see and recognise problems within their own beliefs and attitudes.

When you feel morally superior, you tend to act like that.

They often engage in the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

The left as seen by this thread seem to think they are infallible.

Not seen a single post actually addressed the points of the article yet and the reason why from the left?

They believe they are infallible and can do no wrong.

Which is the problem, which the article is elluding to this snobbish elitist stance. Which as seen is going to in the end come and bite them in the arse politically.

One thing is for sure, the left fail to see and recognise problems within their own beliefs and attitudes.

When you feel morally superior, you tend to act like that.  

They often engage in the soft  bigotry of low expectations.

Nail on the head

+1

Left is right, up is down, day is night.

If people are unable to see how the policies they support hurt them, then sure, call me an elitist.

But I say, it's really just that I'm not brainwashed.

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

That's because conservatives are very good at pointing at foreigners and different people and telling the working class and poor that their problems are cause of those other people.

The left knows how to point fingers too. They have their targets. And as your point suggests they think they are better at helping people, which is part of their problem.  

The left as seen by this thread seem to think they are infallible.

Not seen a single post actually addressed the points of the article yet and the reason why from the left?

They believe they are infallible and can do no wrong.

Which is the problem, which the article is elluding to this snobbish elitist stance. Which as seen is going to in the end come and bite them in the arse politically.

One thing is for sure, the left fail to see and recognise problems within their own beliefs and attitudes.

Do you think that the left seem to be morally superior? Couldn’t you also say that about the right?

All I can say is that I'm not about to change my position on the right to gay marriage and abortion, or that guns need controlling, or that the poor need help, or that health care should be a human right, just because some people might think I sound like a snob.

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The left knows how to point fingers too. They have their targets. And as your point suggests they think they are better at helping people, which is part of their problem.  

The left as seen by this thread seem to think they are infallible.

Not seen a single post actually addressed the points of the article yet and the reason why from the left?

They believe they are infallible and can do no wrong.

Which is the problem, which the article is elluding to this snobbish elitist stance. Which as seen is going to in the end come and bite them in the arse politically.

One thing is for sure, the left fail to see and recognise problems within their own beliefs and attitudes.

When you feel morally superior, you tend to act like that.  

They often engage in the soft  bigotry of low expectations.

Morally superior people are a bore. They are also dangerously closed-minded and assume too much.
And I’m not saying either “side” is more morally superior either.

15 posts into the thread and not a single point in regards to what the article is saying.

Its like when I posted another showing how again from the far post modern left  are becoming anti-science.

The left instead of actually seeing the problems arising go into as per usual defense and whataboutism mode.

They simple place their hands over their ears and go "blah blah blah, I'm not listening.

For the record many times people on the right have no problem recognising issues with the right. In fact you find people on the right like myself will speak out about problems on the right. Espically the further right those views go.

Now if the left want to ignore this and as seen these is a core of the left that do think they are intelletucally and morally superior to others. Well it shows these very people are incapable of listening to others and are very much like dogmatic religious believers.

Didge, I’m not taking sides but I do get where you’re coming from. I’ve started many threads where people don’t actually answer the question that I’ve raised.

Again, not taking sides, but your point is very valid.
I hate when people dodge a point but to be really honest, sometimes you can be like that.

eddie wrote:Didge, I’m not taking sides but I do get where you’re coming from. I’ve started many threads where people don’t actually answer the question that I’ve raised.

Again, not taking sides, but your point is very valid.
I hate when people dodge a point but to be really honest, sometimes you can be like that.

The point here though Eddie, is they are dodging this deliberatly in order to deflect away from what the article is saying.

I mean for example Ben brings up political issues, as if this then means he is right and that is the end of the matter. Neglecting many people on the right support these very issues. Gay marriage came about from the Conservatives. The privatisation of the NHS started with Labour. I even posted an article poll which show many people on the right and left cross over on many political issues.


http://www.newsfixboard.com/t27771-left-wing-vs-right-wing-its-complicated

So many people share views across the political spectrum, but as seen there is a danger with this in elite professions that constantly look down on those who are not. As if they should not have a say in their future lives. That is wrong and will come back to bite them in the butt.
They clearly have not learnt from past revolutions. Where elites in society held similar views of distain for those beneath them

I’m just saying, that generally, people avoid the things that make them uncomfortable without really processing the reasons why.

That’s what interests me.

phildidge wrote:

eddie wrote:Didge, I’m not taking sides but I do get where you’re coming from. I’ve started many threads where people don’t actually answer the question that I’ve raised.

Again, not taking sides, but your point is very valid.
I hate when people dodge a point but to be really honest, sometimes you can be like that.

The point here though Eddie, is they are dodging this deliberatly in order to deflect away from what the article is saying.

I mean for example Ben brings up political issues, as if this then means he is right and that is the end of the matter. Neglecting many people on the right support these very issues. Gay marriage came about from the Conservatives. The privatisation of the NHS started with Labour. I even posted an article poll which show many people on the right and left cross over on many political issues.


http://www.newsfixboard.com/t27771-left-wing-vs-right-wing-its-complicated

So many people share views across the political spectrum, but as seen there is a danger with this in elite professions that constantly look down on those who are not. As if they should not have a say in their future lives. That is wrong and will come back to bite them in the butt.
They clearly have not learnt from past revolutions. Where elites in society held similar views of distain for those beneath them

In direct response to the OP, it is a nonsense article trying to put forward an argument that the more educated one is, the LESS creative and LESS open-minded they become. While this may be true for SOME educated people, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that this is generally true. The world would be in a terrible place without the creativity and minds of very well educated people. Trying to state less educated people are generally more creative and open minded than well educated people - or vice versa - is a non-starter really.

To your above comment, you are conflating parties with policies.

A 'RW' party can introduce liberal/left wing policy. Cameron DID introduce gay marriage. But that was an unquestionably liberal thing to do. Voted AGAINST by most Conservative MPs and For by almost every MP of Labour and Lib Dem.

A 'LW' party, similarly, can introduce obviously conservative policies. Tony Blair's New Labour did start the privatisation of the NHS, and this was simply a continuation of Thatcherism, which Blair 'decided' was the way to go.

A policy/law/view isn't defined as Left or Right by the Party that introduces or holds it, it is defined as Left or Right based on the core principles behind it.

1) So yet moire denialism and what does Eilzel offer up to counter this? More denialism. His counter arguments? "This is ridiculous and to suggest this is ridiculous" Wow give that man a standing ovation fore doing nothing to counter the points

2) He then goes off yet again what aboutism

3) What did i say the left always do. ??

4) Not conflating parties woith policies at all.

5) this is why I have no time for the left and he even fails to see what a complete elitist snob he is being

6) The worst comment I have to say was his view you have to be well educated to be creative. When many people have self taught themselves and some of the best creative people had no higher education teaching what so ever. It shows the poor stigma snobberty that the left believe in and Eilzel is a glowing example of this, by this last ridiculous statement

Diod everyone see also wht he did? He again failed to actually address the points and simple tried to do as the left always do and deny them. Thus never having to address any of the points.

Well my view is this is how the left have become in how utterly arrogant and pigheaded they have become

The article was written by a Left wing professor social science proffessor, but hey when some realise the problems, others like Eizel who because he has written a couiple of books. Which takes being creative. Even though he has not been a success, yet many people have been with such creatism without hardly any formal education. May come to understand that being highly educated can take away what it means to be creative in the first place.

What is worse its clear he failed to even read the article properly in the first place, but then I am not surprised as he proved ellegantly how right the article was

The thread is done, its easily proven how self righteous and dogmatically religious the left have become

Maybe Eilzel should read and learn one of the greatest and creative minds was basically self taugt and received no higher education.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

Or how about Srinivasa Ramanujan , who had no education and self taught mathmetaics from books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

How about Abraham Lincoln?

Or Benjamin Frnaklin, to of the most innovative American Politicians. Who both never went into higher education.

How about Bill gates? A college drop out.


The most creative minds, have been those who were not constricted with a higher education, but people who self taught, had great poreblem solving skills and could take criticism. Which as seen the left have become incapable of doing. Its why they still hold a love of socialism economically. Eveven though in every aspect of history its been an abject failure. This is why I have little time politically for the left anymore and as seen most of the Eu is coming to the sam conclusions. What is worse about this, is its driving up support for the Far right, but the left are as usual blind to this and their own arrogance.

Since you obviously didn't read my whole post (predictably), I'll restate the KEY point:

Trying to state less educated people are generally more creative and open minded than well educated people - or vice versa - is a non-starter really.

Eilzel wrote:Since you obviously didn't read my whole post (predictably), I'll restate the KEY point:

Trying to state less educated people are generally more creative and open minded than well educated people - or vice versa - is a non-starter really.

I did read the bullshit you wrote and you prove exactly what the article was saying. You went into whataboutism yet again and failed to actually counter the article

Like I said you are utterly closeminded like a religious zealot

What is evident today is that a higher education, certainly does not entail intellect or intelligence and there is a good reason for that. Many are being brainwashed with postmodern maxist bullshit. Who have become the worst science deniers. Dont worry into time you will see the light, when you finally understand homosexuality is under threat by these very same people.

Thanks for your worthless and pointless contribution. As easily shown, the left are just about the molst closeminded people there is around today

And wtf you mentioning me writing books for? And taking digs at that not being successful? (News flash, I have a full time job, promoting a self-published book is not my priority). As if that has anything to do with it.

I don't see myself as being better than anyone, unless they are actually behaving like a geranium, then I'll look down on them all day.

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Since you obviously didn't read my whole post (predictably), I'll restate the KEY point:

Trying to state less educated people are generally more creative and open minded than well educated people - or vice versa - is a non-starter really.

I did read the bullshit you wrote and you prove exactly what the article was saying. You went into whataboutism yet again and failed to actually counter the article

Like I said you are utterly closeminded like a religious zealot

What is evident today is that a higher education, certainly does not entail intellect or intelligence and there is a good reason for that. Many are being brainwashed with postmodern maxist bullshit. Who have become the worst science deniers. Dont worry into time you will see the light, when you finally understand homosexuality is under threat by these very same people.

Thanks for your worthless and pointless contribution. As easily shown, the left are just about the molst closeminded people there is around today

I don't disagree that a good education equals intellect - just look at the VERY well-educated Tory front bench

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I did read the bullshit you wrote and you prove exactly what the article was saying. You went into whataboutism yet again and failed to actually counter the article

Like I said you are utterly closeminded like a religious zealot

What is evident today is that a higher education, certainly does not entail intellect or intelligence and there is a good reason for that. Many are being brainwashed with postmodern maxist bullshit. Who have become the worst science deniers. Dont worry into time you will see the light, when you finally understand homosexuality is under threat by these very same people.

Thanks for your worthless and pointless contribution. As easily shown, the left are just about the molst closeminded people there is around today

I don't disagree that a good education equals intellect - just look at the VERY well-educated Tory front bench

The vast majority of politicians are idiots including your messiah Corbyn

I dont support the tories anymore, but you hero worship the worst Marxists since Stalin

Hence closeminded

Later

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I did read the bullshit you wrote and you prove exactly what the article was saying. You went into whataboutism yet again and failed to actually counter the article

Like I said you are utterly closeminded like a religious zealot

What is evident today is that a higher education, certainly does not entail intellect or intelligence and there is a good reason for that. Many are being brainwashed with postmodern maxist bullshit. Who have become the worst science deniers. Dont worry into time you will see the light, when you finally understand homosexuality is under threat by these very same people.

Thanks for your worthless and pointless contribution. As easily shown, the left are just about the molst closeminded people there is around today

I don't disagree that a good education equals intellect - just look at the VERY well-educated Tory front bench

The vast majority of politicians are idiots including your messiah Corbyn

I dont support the tories anymore, but you hero worship the worst Marxists since Stalin

Hence closeminded

Later

Corbyn is not my messiah, he is just preferable to Johnson. Both are pretty awful.

But in referring to him as such shows who the real closed-minded one here is. Everything is a fight with you, VERY simplistic.

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

The vast majority of politicians are idiots including your messiah Corbyn

I dont support the tories anymore, but you hero worship the worst Marxists since Stalin

Hence closeminded

Later

Corbyn is not my messiah, he is just preferable to Johnson. Both are pretty awful.

But in referring to him as such shows who the real closed-minded one here is. Everything is a fight with you, VERY simplistic.

You think someone openly antisemitic, who has drawn the most far left extremists and antisemites to the partys is preferable to this country. Who would bring economic ruin to this country. The Liberals are preferable to Both Labour and the Tories.

Well I am concerned for this country when run by the Tories and Labour at present but as seen you think the most racist Labour leader is preferable

Wow

Keep burying your head in the sand

Laters

phildidge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

phildidge wrote:

The vast majority of politicians are idiots including your messiah Corbyn

I dont support the tories anymore, but you hero worship the worst Marxists since Stalin

Hence closeminded

Later

Corbyn is not my messiah, he is just preferable to Johnson. Both are pretty awful.

But in referring to him as such shows who the real closed-minded one here is. Everything is a fight with you, VERY simplistic.

You think someone openly antisemitic, who has drawn the most far left extremists and antisemites to the partys is preferable to this country. Who would bring economic ruin to this country. The Liberals are preferable to Both Labour and the Tories.

Well I am concerned for this country when run by the Tories and Labour at present but as seen you think the most racist Labour leader is preferable

Wow

Keep burying your head in the sand

Laters

That's the second time you've said laters, presumably you won't respond to this

But I don't care for accusations against Corbyn, I've been clear it not particularly liking him, but my main interest for the UK now is getting a good deal or having a second referendum. Corbyn would do this, Johnson will not.

You used this opinion to cite Corbyn as my messiah? Regardless of accusations against Corbyn, that is a BS claim. So again, I repeat, if anyone is closed-minded here, it's you. But you won't see that. Despite the article you posted, you tick just about every box of someone being closed-minded, self-superior and incredibly arrogant.

Corbyn getting the best deal for this country?

One moment



PMSL, considering he wants to leave the EU and always has, but never mind Eizel. He will surrender to any terms the EU has to offer to get out.

You just proved you are nothing but a far left drone Eilzel. How the intelligent have fallen as again you place confidence in Corbyn

What a twat ha ha ha

Now I am off to work, Like I say, the many just went back on having an election and you trust him?

When did you lose cmmon sense and reason? because you are so desperate for thic cuntry to be ruined by socialist economics, because you are clearly clueless on history

Yes this is my last post and as far as I concerned, you have turned into an far left drone

Well done for diverting the thread with your regressive claptrap

So as far as i am concerned you are the biggest close minded baffooon for thinking Corbyn would get a good deal

What a complete terry fuckwit lol

I am not closeminded and have changed my position on many things, because unlike you eilzel. I do listen and learn from people that reason and rational arguments. Something you clearly lack, as the only thing you changed on was religion. Mainly as it was at odds with who you are.

So unlike you, I dont think I am superior to people, because unlike you I have listened to people and changed my views. Maybe you try it sometime, but like the article says, you think you are above everyone else.

Now I am off to work, so jog on you pathetic snivelling suck up to commies sheep

What a clown.

I've changed my views on many things over the years didge. But again, you tell yourself what you want to believe.

Your error, typo and insult strewn posts above really don't warrant a proper response. You are angry, nowty and clearly in a peachy mood for work it seems.

Have a nice day

Like most ironed-on Tories on here, ye olde Dodger just has to once again demonstrate his poor grasp of economic and political realities...

Despite the Conservatives having fucked Britain over big time over the past four or more decades, producing around two-thirds of the UK's gross national debt 'under their watch' over that period..

Didgeridoodle still keeps on trying to blame all of your country's woes on those wicked communistic "socialist" Labour party stooges.

I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
Just my opinion of course , but I'm not wrong !

I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
  Just my opinion of course ,  but I'm not wrong !
Take a look at the posts, a goodly number have pissed off,
leaving mostly the far left, I wonder why that is ?

I would have thought that a university professor would have known the difference between "uneducated" and "ill-educated."

Since any definition of elitism might reasonably conclude that those having had the benefit of a public school education would qualify, and that public schools are predominently though not exclusively favoured by Conservatives, no-one could say that the products of Eton, Harrow, Cambridge and Oxford are "uneducated."

However, some may well not have absorbed the excellent tuition that it was their privilege and good fortune to be offered, in which case they would have been ill-educated, primarily because of their own failings.

Conversely, a disadvantaged pupil from an academically  failed and undisciplined school in an economically and socially deprived part of a city or town is far more likely to be "uneducated."

Ben Reilly wrote:All I can say is that I'm not about to change my position on the right to gay marriage and abortion, or that guns need controlling, or that the poor need help, or that health care should be a human right, just because some people might think I sound like a snob.

You're not a snob. You are just a moral busybody.

Eilzel wrote:What a clown.

I've changed my views on many things over the years didge. But again, you tell yourself what you want to believe.

Your error, typo and insult strewn posts above really don't warrant a proper response. You are angry, nowty and clearly in a peachy mood for work it seems.

Have a nice day

You are the one that belives and backs a quisling terrorist suporting antisemitic low life, not me.

So not angry at all. I have simple shown and proved you  regressive lefties are complete elities snos backing the article

So you have made your own bed and join leftist extremist low lifes. I would say the same to any on the far right and always have

So I fail to see how you think you get off lightly with this

Hey ho, the reality is Labour has lost massive support to the Liberals as many on the left the rational ones, unlike you can see the danger of the Far left under Corbyn

You keep on kissing his arse mate, is what you do best  

nicko wrote:I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
  Just my opinion of course ,  but I'm not wrong !
Take a look at the posts, a goodly number have pissed off,
leaving mostly the far left, I wonder why that is ?

It proves the point of the article mate. Can you remeber the last time any of them admitted to being wrong?

Go figure

phildidge wrote:

nicko wrote:I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
  Just my opinion of course ,  but I'm not wrong !
Take a look at the posts, a goodly number have pissed off,
leaving mostly the far left, I wonder why that is ?

It proves the point of the article mate. Can you remeber the last time any of them admitted to being wrong?

Go figure

Can you remember the last time any of them actually were wrong?  Go figure.

The reason why everything migrates to the left is: in new ideas lies the path to being correct, morally as well as factually.  If we didn't accept the innovations of the left, we'd still believe the earth was flat and native Americans are not the same species.

I've never seen a knuckle-dragger admit he is wrong.  Like old soldiers, the right just has to fade away.

nicko wrote:I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
  Just my opinion of course ,  but I'm not wrong !
Take a look at the posts, a goodly number have pissed off,
leaving mostly the far left, I wonder why that is ?

What , you mean far right extremist posters like Allakaka, Major and Skunk Bandit. They didn't 'leave'. They were banned.

Andy wrote:

nicko wrote:I think this forum is being overrun by Leftish idiots,
  Just my opinion of course ,  but I'm not wrong !
Take a look at the posts, a goodly number have pissed off,
leaving mostly the far left, I wonder why that is ?

What , you mean far right extremist posters like Allakaka, Major and Skunk Bandit. They didn't 'leave'. They were banned.

Indeed they were banned and often condemned for their far right extremism

What is often silent by you lefties however, is your support for Corbyn who is a Far left extremists. Who is pals with Assad, Putin, Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA, to name but a few. Yet you and others willingly are going to vote for this terrorist supporting antisemitic extremist. I mean the double standards is staggring here and it shows the left are willing to jump into bed with with the Far left. No matter the cost to this country.

Not one of you has an ounce of integity.

Nobody here would vote for the BNP and those who were banned did and were condemned for doing so.

That makes you lefties that support Corbyn the equivalent Far left of these posters

phildidge wrote:

Andy wrote:
What , you mean far right extremist posters like Allakaka, Major and Skunk Bandit. They didn't 'leave'. They were banned.

Indeed they were banned and often condemned for their far right extremism

What is often silent by you lefties however, is your support for Corbyn who is a Far left extremists. Who is pals with Assad, Putin, Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA, to name but a few. Yet you and others willingly are going to vote for this terrorist supporting antisemitic extremist. I mean the double standards is staggring here and it shows the left are willing to jump into bed with with the Far left. No matter the cost to this country.

Not one of you has an ounce of integity.

Nobody here would vote for the BNP and those who were banned did and were condemned for doing so.

That makes you lefties that support Corbyn the equivalent Far left of these posters

Funny how myopic some folks get when discussing extremism on one side or the other.

What is often silent by you lefties however, is your support for Corbyn who is a Far left extremists. Who is pals with Assad, Putin, Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA, to name but a few. Yet you and others willingly are going to vote for this terrorist supporting antisemitic extremist. I mean the double standards is staggring here and it shows the left are willing to jump into bed with with the Far left. No matter the cost to this country.

Whaa...whaa...whaa...

Maddog wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Indeed they were banned and often condemned for their far right extremism

What is often silent by you lefties however, is your support for Corbyn who is a Far left extremists. Who is pals with Assad, Putin, Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA, to name but a few. Yet you and others willingly are going to vote for this terrorist supporting antisemitic extremist. I mean the double standards is staggring here and it shows the left are willing to jump into bed with with the Far left. No matter the cost to this country.

Not one of you has an ounce of integity.

Nobody here would vote for the BNP and those who were banned did and were condemned for doing so.

That makes you lefties that support Corbyn the equivalent Far left of these posters

Funny how myopic some folks get when discussing extremism on one side or the other.

Myopic? I would say deliberately blind as a bat to the extremism from the current Labour party

I mean John Macdonald threatened to invent laws to just to incarcerate Tory Mp's.

They fail to see the slippery slope they follow