Liar, Liar, Burn In Hell

An updated version of my 2010 classic Liar, Liar, music by the Used



For all those remainiac anti democrats out there.

The Devil, You Know wrote:An updated version of my 2010 classic Liar, Liar, music by the Used



For all those remainiac anti democrats out there.

So what is to be done, when there is no majority over any form of deal or no deal?

Surely the next step os for the people to vote in a general election. For people that represent their views?

Do you dare to go down that path, when the Commons is in perpetual deadlock?

Thor wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:An updated version of my 2010 classic Liar, Liar, music by the Used



For all those remainiac anti democrats out there.

So what is to be done, when there is no majority over any form of deal or no deal?

Surely the next step os for the people to vote in a general election. For people that represent their views?

Do you dare to go down that path, when the Commons is in perpetual deadlock?

what MP's are failing to remember is they overwhelmingly asked the people what was wanted. the people told them, MP's should be implementing it, not trying to stop it. the default option is WTO. A deal is a bonus, not a requirement, MP's rejected the deal so WTO is all that is left.

there is no requirement in article 50 for a deal to be required, and there was no requirement in the referendum legislation for a deal. Article 50 does require a maximum of 2 years to conclude talks though. when that timeframe is over we leave, hence the eu withdrawal bill being law now.

The referendum was Remain or Leave. The first option was simple; the latter didn't go into details but plenty of suggestions, promises and claims were made by the Leave campaign as to what it would look like.

Not everyone who voted Leave voted for the exact same thing. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

The fair option, with parliament in deadlock, would be another referendum with Remain, May's deal or No deal as the option. With votes made in order of preference (to avoid the chance of 'splitting' the Leave vote).

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Thor wrote:

So what is to be done, when there is no majority over any form of deal or no deal?

Surely the next step os for the people to vote in a general election. For people that represent their views?

Do you dare to go down that path, when the Commons is in perpetual deadlock?

what MP's are failing to remember is they overwhelmingly asked the people what was wanted. the people told them, MP's should be implementing it, not trying to stop it. the default option is WTO. A deal is a bonus, not a requirement, MP's rejected the deal so WTO is all that is left.

there is no requirement in article 50 for a deal to be required, and there was no requirement in the referendum legislation for a deal.  Article 50 does require a maximum of 2 years to conclude talks though. when that timeframe is over we leave, hence the eu withdrawal bill being law now.

But they are not and the Commons is at odds. Which is no point continually moaning about that

So how long do you want this deadlock to continue?

Surely the best way to provide a decision the people want. Is by electing people, who will ensure the majority decision is made?

So surely the way forward is by general election?

Eilzel wrote:The referendum was Remain or Leave. The first option was simple; the latter didn't go into details but plenty of suggestions, promises and claims were made by the Leave campaign as to what it would look like.

Not everyone who voted Leave voted for the exact same thing. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

The fair option, with parliament in deadlock, would be another referendum with Remain, May's deal or No deal as the option. With votes made in order of preference (to avoid the chance of 'splitting' the Leave vote).

are you 'aving a laugh. Remainers have been claiming they want to remain in order to reform from within. the EU army was denied during the ref but is moving ahead at a fairly brisk pace, did you vote for that? tax raising powers over national governments are also moving forward, did you know about, or vote for that? the EU want to remove government veto's, they want to take away our rebate. Are these all things you voted for when you voted to remain. None of it was mentioned during the campaign, or if it was by the leave side it was rubbished by the leaders of remain.

All we voted for was leave or remain and we voted to leave or should I saw we told our MP's that should vote for us to leave. It doesn't matter if a constituency voted leave or remain, the UK as a whole instructed MPs they must leave.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:The referendum was Remain or Leave. The first option was simple; the latter didn't go into details but plenty of suggestions, promises and claims were made by the Leave campaign as to what it would look like.

Not everyone who voted Leave voted for the exact same thing. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

The fair option, with parliament in deadlock, would be another referendum with Remain, May's deal or No deal as the option. With votes made in order of preference (to avoid the chance of 'splitting' the Leave vote).

are you 'aving a laugh. Remainers have been claiming they want to remain in order to reform from within. the EU army was denied during the ref but is moving ahead at a fairly brisk pace, did you vote for that? tax raising powers over national governments are also moving forward, did you know about, or vote for that? the EU want to remove government veto's, they want to take away our rebate. Are these all things you voted for when you voted to remain. None of it was mentioned during the campaign, or if it was by the leave side it was rubbished by the leaders of remain.

All we voted for was leave or remain and we voted to leave or should I saw we told our MP's that should vote for us to leave. It doesn't matter  if a constituency voted leave or remain, the UK as a whole instructed MPs they must leave.

So explain to people what choice they should make on the many leave options?

If this is in deadlock, then what is the next option?

Clearly an election, right?

Eilzel wrote:The referendum was Remain or Leave. The first option was simple; the latter didn't go into details but plenty of suggestions, promises and claims were made by the Leave campaign as to what it would look like.

Not everyone who voted Leave voted for the exact same thing. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

The fair option, with parliament in deadlock, would be another referendum with Remain, May's deal or No deal as the option. With votes made in order of preference (to avoid the chance of 'splitting' the Leave vote).

no not at all, parliament is in deadlock over mays WA so the only choice, should there be another vote is between the WA or the default option of WTO. How anyone can argue with any integrity that remain should get another bite of the cherry is unbelievable. The remain option was dealt with in 2016

Thor wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
what MP's are failing to remember is they overwhelmingly asked the people what was wanted. the people told them, MP's should be implementing it, not trying to stop it. the default option is WTO. A deal is a bonus, not a requirement, MP's rejected the deal so WTO is all that is left.

there is no requirement in article 50 for a deal to be required, and there was no requirement in the referendum legislation for a deal.  Article 50 does require a maximum of 2 years to conclude talks though. when that timeframe is over we leave, hence the eu withdrawal bill being law now.

But they are not and the Commons is at odds. Which is no point continually moaning about that

So how long do you want this deadlock to continue?

Surely the best way to provide a decision the people want. Is by electing people, who will ensure the majority decision is made?

So surely the way forward is by general election?

If a general election is to be held it must be called this week. The best way to do that would be Mrs May to call a vote of no confidence in her own government and win meaning that labour and the TIGs would have to vote confidence in the gov to avoid an election they would lose. If it happened before the 12th then no votres would happen, parliament would be disolved and brexit would happen by default on wTO rules and I think the tories may storm to a decent majority, if they deselected the extremist remainiacs and selected pro leave tories in those seats. The TIG problem would be the damp squib it is and corbyn would be put in his place once and for all and the gov could get on with the economy instead of being forced to spend so much time on the brexit sideshow.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Thor wrote:


But they are not and the Commons is at odds. Which is no point continually moaning about that

So how long do you want this deadlock to continue?

Surely the best way to provide a decision the people want. Is by electing people, who will ensure the majority decision is made?

So surely the way forward is by general election?

If a general election is to be held it must be called this week. The best way to do that would be Mrs May to call a vote of no confidence in her own government and win meaning that labour and the TIGs would have to vote confidence in the gov to avoid an election they would lose. If it happened before the 12th then no votres would happen, parliament would be disolved and brexit would happen by default on wTO rules and I think the tories may storm to a decent majority, if they deselected the extremist remainiacs and selected pro leave tories in those seats. The TIG problem would be the damp squib it is and corbyn would be put in his place once and for all and the gov could get on with the economy instead of being forced to spend so much time on the brexit sideshow.

I never asked on how this would happen

I asked on your views as the best way to break the deadlock, through an election?

I will give you a clue mate

Brexit is never going to happen

That is already apparant

If it doesn't happen , the Tories are finished [with me anyway] and Labour will take a hit as well !

Thor wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
If a general election is to be held it must be called this week. The best way to do that would be Mrs May to call a vote of no confidence in her own government and win meaning that labour and the TIGs would have to vote confidence in the gov to avoid an election they would lose. If it happened before the 12th then no votres would happen, parliament would be disolved and brexit would happen by default on wTO rules and I think the tories may storm to a decent majority, if they deselected the extremist remainiacs and selected pro leave tories in those seats. The TIG problem would be the damp squib it is and corbyn would be put in his place once and for all and the gov could get on with the economy instead of being forced to spend so much time on the brexit sideshow.

I never asked on how this would happen

I asked on your views as the best way to break the deadlock, through an election?

I will give you a clue mate

Brexit is never going to happen

That is already apparant

that is my view on the best way out of this deadlock.

nicko wrote:If it doesn't happen , the Tories are finished [with me anyway] and Labour will take a hit as well !

Why do you think that opportunist bastard Comrade Corbyn has finally got his arse off the fence and backed a second referendum?

He absolutely hates Europe (as do many of us) but he would sell us out in a New York minute if he thought that it might give him any opportunity of grabbing the keys to No. 10.

My guess is that if there is a so-called People's Vote (in other words another referendum, but they can't bring themselves to say so) the "nay" vote will be even bigger.

nicko wrote:If it doesn't happen , the Tories are finished [with me anyway] and Labour will take a hit as well !

labour are finished because they have deserted the northern working classes who voted to leave. The tories are done for now if brexit does not happen. But I dont think there is going to be any huge upsurge and sweeping to power of ukip or britain first, I think "none of the above" may do especially well in the same way don't knows beat corbyn into 3rd place as best pm.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

nicko wrote:If it doesn't happen , the Tories are finished [with me anyway] and Labour will take a hit as well !

Why do you think that opportunist bastard Comrade Corbyn has finally got his arse off the fence and backed a second referendum?

He absolutely hates Europe (as do many of us) but he would sell us out in a New York minute if he thought that it might give him any opportunity of grabbing the keys to No. 10.

My guess is that if there is a so-called People's Vote (in other words another referendum, but they can't bring themselves to say so) the "nay" vote will be even bigger.

yes corbyns sudden conversion is entirely to do with chopping the legs off the TIG's. Although if you delve into the small print it's not really a rounding endorsement of a 2nd vote and unless I missed it today he still hasn't said which way labour would vote on it and it is all rather dependent on other votes before they endorse it.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Eilzel wrote:The referendum was Remain or Leave. The first option was simple; the latter didn't go into details but plenty of suggestions, promises and claims were made by the Leave campaign as to what it would look like.

Not everyone who voted Leave voted for the exact same thing. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

The fair option, with parliament in deadlock, would be another referendum with Remain, May's deal or No deal as the option. With votes made in order of preference (to avoid the chance of 'splitting' the Leave vote).

no not at all, parliament is in deadlock over mays WA so the only choice, should there be another vote is between the WA or the default option of WTO. How anyone can argue with any integrity that remain should get another bite of the cherry is unbelievable. The remain option was dealt with in 2016

Polls suggest Remain is now ahead. The Leave campaign was riddled with lies and no real plan on how to leave. If Leavers still believe they are majority (now the cards are on the table), then why worry about it?

The GE option is understandae but could cause more problems. There is no certainty we'd end up in a much better situation than right. The Tories would probably win again and they themselves are totally divided on Brexit. So a GE would just cost a lot of time and money and leave us with no clearer a path.

We have to please the majority of people to conclude this, and parliament is clearly stuck. Let the people decide now all the cards are on the table.

and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

Lord Foul wrote:and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

I think you will appreciate this mate and its coming from a German  



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxtB8f4WcIw

Eilzel wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
no not at all, parliament is in deadlock over mays WA so the only choice, should there be another vote is between the WA or the default option of WTO. How anyone can argue with any integrity that remain should get another bite of the cherry is unbelievable. The remain option was dealt with in 2016

Polls suggest Remain is now ahead. The Leave campaign was riddled with lies and no real plan on how to leave. If Leavers still believe they are majority (now the cards are on the table), then why worry about it?

The GE option is understandae but could cause more problems. There is no certainty we'd end up in a much better situation than right. The Tories would probably win again and they themselves are totally divided on Brexit. So a GE would just cost a lot of time and money and leave us with no clearer a path.

We have to please the majority of people to conclude this, and parliament is clearly stuck. Let the people decide now all the cards are on the table.

I think Henning Wehn got it right on last nights QT. A second ref would produce exactly the same result.

https://www.facebook.com/BBCQuestionTime/videos/634117260355525/

Lord Foul wrote:and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

more than just ireland made to vote again or just plain ignored

How about some actual truth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union

Lord Foul wrote:and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

Wrong. Actually try hearing WHY a second referendum is the best option right now rather than all thinking the world is conspiring against you

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

Wrong. Actually try hearing WHY a second referendum is the best option right now rather than all thinking the world is conspiring against you

How is that the best option over that of an election?

When even a second referendum, will not make a blind bit of difference to the conflict with politicians in parliment?
How is that going to break the deadlock, when the first referendum, cannot find agreement with politicians?

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and you will keep on voting until you produce the right answer...just like ireland

Wrong. Actually try hearing WHY a second referendum is the best option right now rather than all thinking the world is conspiring against you

How is that the best option over that of an election?

When even a second referendum, will not make a blind bit of difference to the conflict with politicians in parliment?
How is that going to break the deadlock, when the first referendum, cannot find agreement with politicians?

I mentioned this earlier:

The GE option is understandable but could cause more problems. There is no certainty we'd end up in a much better situation than right now. The Tories would probably win again, just, and they themselves are totally divided on Brexit. So a GE would just cost a lot of time and money and leave us with no clearer a path. We'd also be risking ending up with a nonsensical Labour government but also a hung parliament - even more problematic.

The whole point of a referendum on a final decision, with the actual tangible options, is to let the people make the decision THEY want, since parliament cannot.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

How is that the best option over that of an election?

When even a second referendum, will not make a blind bit of difference to the conflict with politicians in parliment?
How is that going to break the deadlock, when the first referendum, cannot find agreement with politicians?

I mentioned this earlier:

The GE option is understandable but could cause more problems. There is no certainty we'd end up in a much better situation than right now. The Tories would probably win again, just, and they themselves are totally divided on Brexit. So a GE would just cost a lot of time and money and leave us with no clearer a path. We'd also be risking ending up with a nonsensical Labour government but also a hung parliament - even more problematic.

The whole point of a referendum on a final decision, with the actual tangible options, is to let the people make the decision THEY want, since parliament cannot.

But a referendum is never going to change that a second time

All the leavers will do will be to campaign again for a third and the insanity will continue over all of this

Not only that, you simple cannot revoke article 50, of which leavers will argue over from

Hence a general election is the best option, which might see a new party help unite the country

As its clearly divided at the moment

A referendum again on this, will achieve nothing, but continue the farcical situation we are now in

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

How is that the best option over that of an election?

When even a second referendum, will not make a blind bit of difference to the conflict with politicians in parliment?
How is that going to break the deadlock, when the first referendum, cannot find agreement with politicians?

I mentioned this earlier:

The GE option is understandable but could cause more problems. There is no certainty we'd end up in a much better situation than right now. The Tories would probably win again, just, and they themselves are totally divided on Brexit. So a GE would just cost a lot of time and money and leave us with no clearer a path. We'd also be risking ending up with a nonsensical Labour government but also a hung parliament - even more problematic.

The whole point of a referendum on a final decision, with the actual tangible options, is to let the people make the decision THEY want, since parliament cannot.

But a referendum is never going to change that a second time

All the leavers will do will be to campaign again for a third and the insanity will continue over all of this

Not only that, you simple cannot revoke article 50, of which leavers will argue over from

Hence a general election is the best option, which might see a new party help unite the country

As its clearly divided at the moment

A referendum again on this, will achieve nothing, but continue the farcical situation we are now in

We are already looking likely to extend article 50, which might give us time (for a referendum or GE).

Again though, how would a GE change the situation substantially enough? I don't see how.

If over 50% of people in a 2nd referendum say they want No Deal then parliament can be in no doubt about the will of the people. The whole reason for the current deadlock is parliament thinks most people do not want No Deal.

Ultimately though, parliament cannot know what people really want without asking them.

And I seriously do not buy into the endless referendums argument. It is a Leaver trick to scare monger. We simply were not given a clear and cohesive alternative to Remain that everyone agreed on. Now we have two alternatives and parliament don't know which the people prefer.

Pre-June 2016 many people thought we could leave but retain access to the Single Market; many thought leaving outright would mean economic boom; many thought we could stay in the Customs Union; many thought new trade deals would be easy.

Now, we know exactly what the situation is. A vote now would be a no nonsense vote on our clear future as laid out in three options on the ballot. There would be no need for a 3rd referendum.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

But a referendum is never going to change that a second time

All the leavers will do will be to campaign again for a third and the insanity will continue over all of this

Not only that, you simple cannot revoke article 50, of which leavers will argue over from

Hence a general election is the best option, which might see a new party help unite the country

As its clearly divided at the moment

A referendum again on this, will achieve nothing, but continue the farcical situation we are now in

We are already looking likely to extend article 50, which might give us time (for a referendum or GE).

Again though, how would a GE change the situation substantially enough? I don't see how.

If over 50% of people in a 2nd referendum say they want No Deal then parliament can be in no doubt about the will of the people. The whole reason for the current deadlock is parliament thinks most people do not want No Deal.

Ultimately though, parliament cannot know what people really want without asking them.

And I seriously do not buy into the endless referendums argument. It is a Leaver trick to scare monger. We simply were not given a clear and cohesive alternative to Remain that everyone agreed on. Now we have two alternatives and parliament don't know which the people prefer.

Pre-June 2016 many people thought we could leave but retain access to the Single Market; many thought leaving outright would mean economic boom; many thought we could stay in the Customs Union; many thought new trade deals would be easy.

Now, we know exactly what the situation is. A vote now would be a no nonsense vote on our clear future as laid out in three options on the ballot. There would be no need for a 3rd referendum.

You are simple not grasping the simple situation mate of continual stalemate, because our politicians. Are placing their own needs and beliefs, over that of the population

By a majority, the populace did vote to leave and as much as I see our best interest in being within the EU. That is now not the best way forward for the EU, espcially when it refuses to look to reform. Its simple knuckling down, as are people on both sides of this debate.

Nobody is actually trying to find any common ground

Its only further dividing this nation

Hence a second referendum is only ever going to cause further divide and create further unrest in this country

So to say there would be no need for a 3rd referedum, is being naive at best. As there has never actually been a clear cut choise in any of this. As its always been the politicians, playing to dice on options and not the people.

How then could you seriously present a referendum on the choices to even leave?

When the nation has already decided to leave?

there is no need for any 2nd referendum. the vote was out, with or without a deal. leaving without a deal will ultimately hurt europe if it hurts us. Some one ought to remind europe that most of its internet traffic to the usa and beyond in some cases passes through britain for speeds sake...we can always "pull the plug"

Lord Foul wrote:there is no need for any 2nd referendum. the vote was out, with or without a deal. leaving without a deal will ultimately hurt europe if it hurts us. Some one ought to remind europe that most of its internet traffic to the usa and beyond in some cases passes through britain for speeds sake...we can always "pull the plug"

Yes, but there is always the case that and even though the Uk is based to become the biggest EU power economically nby leaving the EU. Its going to come at the expense of jobs and well being in the short term. Its a big price to pay mate and one that is going to tip the edge of pushing the EU into recesssion. One will can all ill afford. As it will also effect the Uk economy

Yes with have pulled out of such problems before but where there is a rise of the Far right and left. Where they capitalise off this. We could actually end up seeing far worse with people capitlizing off this. With their extreme views. That could lead many EU states either into Extreme far and left authorutarian states. The stability of governements within the EU is completely unstanble and its how extreme groups are always able to play off such discord and gain power. That is more a worry to me, than anything else

There is symble too many variables that you are not even considering mate

Lord Foul wrote:there is no need for any 2nd referendum. the vote was out, with or without a deal. leaving without a deal will ultimately hurt europe if it hurts us. Some one ought to remind europe that most of its internet traffic to the usa and beyond in some cases passes through britain for speeds sake...we can always "pull the plug"

We didn't as much then as we did now. Regardless, would you support a vote on Deal or No Deal?

NO, because "no deal" has to remain an option.............. thats far more scary to the idiots in europe than anything else.....

Lord Foul wrote:NO, because "no deal" has to remain an option.............. thats far more scary to the idiots in europe than anything else.....

No deal is always an option if the situation changes. I'm talking about right now, this year would you accept a referendum on the conditions of our break with the EU (being deal or no deal)?

how? if we have a referendum on deal or no deal and deal wins....will the situation change such that no deal is then an option??? do we say if a deal cant be done in say 12 months we have yet ANOTHER referendum??????

I say stuff em, europe (or rather that tit Tusk and his nauseous side kick Barnier) are being 100% intransigent and as awkward as possible, tell em take it or leave it but we ARE leaving on time and according to schedule.......

Lord Foul wrote:how? if we have a referendum on deal or no deal and deal wins....will the situation change such that no deal is then an option???  do we say if a deal cant be done in say 12 months we have yet ANOTHER referendum??????

If the EU changed in any way which compromised our agreement, we could pull out of whatever agreements we had.

Of course, now it sounds like you (and, I expect most extreme Brexiteers) actually aren't really the pure democracy lovers you like us to think.

You scraped a win on all kinds of fantasies and promises in 2016 and take as a mandate for full blown to hell with it No Deal. You want no one to have any option outside of that - apparently even the Single Market is no longer even desirable.

This despite your own messiah Farage saying 52-48 would be unfinished business - unless your side won, of course.

I'm not really bothered by deal or no deal (as long as the deal actually does what it says on the tin ie no eu court jurisdiction, no EU regulations beyond those appertaining to safety of goods, and no eu restrictions on who we can make deals with oh and stuff the idea of an EU army AND the eu wide police force and certainly NO eu input into british taxation.....etc) what I want is OUT ...and out in fact not in theory and not "subject to this that and the other depending on the whim of that stinky pile known as the eu commission

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

But a referendum is never going to change that a second time

All the leavers will do will be to campaign again for a third and the insanity will continue over all of this

Not only that, you simple cannot revoke article 50, of which leavers will argue over from

Hence a general election is the best option, which might see a new party help unite the country

As its clearly divided at the moment

A referendum again on this, will achieve nothing, but continue the farcical situation we are now in

We are already looking likely to extend article 50, which might give us time (for a referendum or GE).

Again though, how would a GE change the situation substantially enough? I don't see how.

If over 50% of people in a 2nd referendum say they want No Deal then parliament can be in no doubt about the will of the people. The whole reason for the current deadlock is parliament thinks most people do not want No Deal.

Ultimately though, parliament cannot know what people really want without asking them.

And I seriously do not buy into the endless referendums argument. It is a Leaver trick to scare monger. We simply were not given a clear and cohesive alternative to Remain that everyone agreed on. Now we have two alternatives and parliament don't know which the people prefer.

Pre-June 2016 many people thought we could leave but retain access to the Single Market; many thought leaving outright would mean economic boom; many thought we could stay in the Customs Union; many thought new trade deals would be easy.

Now, we know exactly what the situation is. A vote now would be a no nonsense vote on our clear future as laid out in three options on the ballot. There would be no need for a 3rd referendum.

well you prove exactly what the point of an extension is, it's not to find a deal it is to seek a way to overturn the referendum because you lot do not like the result. a second ref, if there was one, should only have the option of the WA or WTO on the paper. We dealt with leave and remain in 2016

Thor wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:there is no need for any 2nd referendum. the vote was out, with or without a deal. leaving without a deal will ultimately hurt europe if it hurts us. Some one ought to remind europe that most of its internet traffic to the usa and beyond in some cases passes through britain for speeds sake...we can always "pull the plug"

Yes, but there is always the case that and even though the Uk is based to become the biggest EU power economically nby leaving the EU. Its going to come at the expense of jobs and well being in the short term. Its a big price to pay mate and one that is going to tip the edge of pushing the EU into recesssion. One will can all ill afford. As it will also effect the Uk economy

Yes with have pulled out of such problems before but where there is a rise of the Far right and left. Where they capitalise off this. We could actually end up seeing far worse with people capitlizing off this. With their extreme views. That could lead many EU states either into Extreme far and left authorutarian states. The stability of governements within the EU is completely unstanble and its how extreme groups are always able to play off such discord and gain power. That is more a worry to me, than anything else

There is symble too many variables that you are not even considering mate

project fear spelt out again and again that leaving would financially hurt people and they still voted to leave, money is not the driving factor in leaving. Immigration is not a driving factor. The driving factor was control of our own destiny. Leavers and most who voted remain understand that, it is the remainiacs who dont.

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:there is no need for any 2nd referendum. the vote was out, with or without a deal. leaving without a deal will ultimately hurt europe if it hurts us. Some one ought to remind europe that most of its internet traffic to the usa and beyond in some cases passes through britain for speeds sake...we can always "pull the plug"

We didn't as much then as we did now. Regardless, would you support a vote on Deal or No Deal?

the WA is a terrible bit of legislation and I would vote for WTO
The backstop is not the only trap in the WA. Free movement can potentially carry on for 100 years as it guarantees FM for grandchildren

Eilzel wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:how? if we have a referendum on deal or no deal and deal wins....will the situation change such that no deal is then an option???  do we say if a deal cant be done in say 12 months we have yet ANOTHER referendum??????

If the EU changed in any way which compromised our agreement, we could pull out of whatever agreements we had.

Of course, now it sounds like you (and, I expect most extreme Brexiteers) actually aren't really the pure democracy lovers you like us to think.

You scraped a win on all kinds of fantasies and promises in 2016 and take as a mandate for full blown to hell with it No Deal. You want no one to have any option outside of that - apparently even the Single Market is no longer even desirable.

This despite your own messiah Farage saying 52-48 would be unfinished business - unless your side won, of course.

no, under the WA we have to take any new rules or changes that the EU impose. In 2020 parts of the lisbon treaty become active which makes our situation even worse.

The fact remains, we had a vote, leavers won. No deal is better than a bad deal, now, who said that ?